not communist? post here!

[Chief Rebel Angel]

yeah i'm just not comfortable with ppl making generalizations about how all of us here r communists... i am not, for one... anyone else?

[RedCeltic]

I'm a Democratic Socialist. Not a Communist, and not a Capitalist.

[rebel7609]

I'm not.
That's all I got to say 'bout that.

[Jurhael]

I'm not a communist either. In theory, I'm a socialist. In practice, I'm a *OH NO!* Liberal.

[Moskitto]

Am I a communist or a socialist?

I hate Stalin and Mao so I'm probably a socialist

But socialist sounds like you like Tony Blair

But the socialist party (over here at least) is Trotskyist which is sort of communist.

I believe in democracy so I don't like the so called "communist states"

I agree with Marx more than most people.

I also agree with a lot of Rosa Luxembourg and Leon Trotsky

Democratic Socialism looks good though.

Am a communist or a socialist or somewhere between them?

[RedCeltic]

I've seen New Labour listed as a Democratic Socialist party. However I don't know too much about them other than your PM Tony Blair who I don't agree with, and don't consider a socialist. But it seems to me that New Labour has in the past made some progresive legeslation. Maybe they have gravitated more to the center as Blair seems to be center left.

In the present two party system of the United States, democratic socialists are radicals... for as I've said, we have no voice under the current two party system. And, there are some people within the democratic party which are 'socialist in theory' and 'libral' in practice, as Jurhel said.



(Edited by RedCeltic at 2:21 pm on Oct. 24, 2001)

[Moskitto]

The most prominent socialist politician in the UK is Ken Livingstone who's the Mayor of London. He's called "Red Ken" by the media.

He stood for selection as the Labour party candidate for the post but the central committee chose Frank Dobson as their candidate so Ken stood as an independant with assistance with a Liberal Democrat politician and was thrown out of the party but won the election.

I think he's one of the better politicians in the UK.

New Labour are not a democratic socialist party. All their policies are decided by the central committee and they aren't even allowing free votes on the War in Afghanistan (one whip described opponents of the war as being "as bad as nazi sympaphizers") Tony Blair is effectively a dictator who you get the chance to get rid of every 5 years.

[Nickademus]

i'm not a communist either although i also wouldn't cal myself a socialist . . . .i'm somewhere in between

. .so i guess ultimately i'm confused

[Moskitto]

i'm not a communist either although i also wouldn't cal myself a socialist . . . .i'm somewhere in between

. .so i guess ultimately i'm confused

Just like me.

I think i'm more like a moderate communist

[reagan lives]

I'm a piece of "inhuman filth".

[Kez]

I think im a commie
Im pro Soviet Petroskia, but not too happy with the stalin Era

I think Blair is as bad as the conservatives
I think the backbenchers of Labour should rebel and tell Blair to go screw Widecome

I might actually be a Euro-communist

VIVA CHE

[Moskitto]

I'm a piece of "inhuman filth".


No Reagan you're one of the more sensible people i have met (online at least.) You are actually capable of a reasoning and explaination unlike some people (hint:fantomas.) You're one of the people that makes online debates worthwhile. And no i don't care you're a conservative.

Yeah I think i've settled on it, i'm a council-communist.

[pce]

i don't know what i am exactly, but the principles of communism appeal to me more than those of capitalism.

read the thread "huey long" in the general politics section - i think that's my favorite idea so far - but again i'm not sure.

[Guest]

I am an autonomist.

Soj.

[madmax]

Leaning towards filth.

[vox]

Well, Ronald Wilson Reagan, whose name is an acronym for Insane Anglo Warlord, waged an illegal war while impoorting illegal drugs.

He's your hero.

Yes, you're filth in my book.

Ronald Wilson Reagan increased payroll taxes, which is a regressive tax, and lowered taxes on the rich.

He increased debt, with a Republican Senate.

He committed international acts of war without Comgressional approval.

He was an informant for the FBI in the Fifties.

He was a gem.

And he deserves what he's become.

Reagan Lives loves this man, as is evidenced my his vulgar name.

Yes, Reagan Lives, you are filth.

Name one good thing Ronald Wilson Reagan did.

There isn't one.

vox

[reagan lives]

Ladies and Gentlemen, give a big hand for vox's sense of humor.

[Chancho]

Let us not forget Reagan's lamentable 'contributions' to the art of film making.

Btw, why the hell is everyone scrambling to declare their non-communist status? Yes, I know that doesn't apply to all of you. If we were discussing it amongst each other for interests sake, that would be one thing. But it seems like you're trying to distance yourselves from the 'embarrassment' of communist affiliation. May I remind you that communism can also mean any and all leftist ideology - including socialism, democratic or otherwise? We should agree on our definitions before making declarations. But declarations should not be made in order to distinguish oneself from the tainted reputation of 'communism'. Remember that Che considered himself communist but ended up highly critical of the soviet model.

[vox]

Reagan, once again, answers for nothing.

History repeats itself.

Reagan Lives has no point, and I dare anyone here to find one in his posts.

Rather, he uses bumpersticker rhetoric.

Prove me wrong, Reagan Lives. Do it!

You haven't yet, and you never will.

I'm right, and you're wrong.

Never, not once, not ever, have you shown me to be wrong about anything.

I'm smarter than you are, Reagan Lives (in his own shit).

Prove me wrong, coward.

Prove me wrong, right-winger.

Prove me wrong about anything I've said about your whore, Reagan.

You can't, weak little fool.

You should be ashamed of yourself, reagan licker. I know more about your man than you do.

vox


(Edited by vox at 10:44 pm on Oct. 24, 2001)

[RedCeltic]

Choncho,

It doesn't have anything to do with that... I wouldn't be posting on Che-lives If I was trying to distance myself from communism... we where just pointiing out to fantomas that he can't make generalizations.


(Edited by RedCeltic at 9:44 pm on Oct. 24, 2001)

[Chancho]

Fair enough Red - but you are all responding to this idiotic Cuban mafioso.

vox - 'reagan licker' - LMFAO :biggrin:

[rebel7609]

I get the L, M, A, O but what's the "F"?

[Chancho]

Rebel, are you serious? :)

[rebel7609]

Nah. Just tryin' to get you to talk dirty and liven it up around here. :)

[Chancho]

Well, fucked if I'm going to let you use me for your own superficial ends. ;)

[vox]

Chanco,

Let's see what his reply is, huh?

I'm just a little too sick of these folks. I've no love for them, and no use for their lies and propaganda.

vox

[rebel7609]

>Well, fucked if I'm going to let you use me for your own superficial ends.

Ahhhhhhh, that was good.
::smokes cigarette::

Now if we can make nicey-nicey so can vox and regan.

[vox]

"Now if we can make nicey-nicey so can vox and regan."

Hell couldn't get cold enough.

vox (still waiting to be shown wrong)

[rebel7609]

Well, we ARE supposed to be getting snow this week. Something that NEVER happens in October in cornland, USA. Hmmmm.

[David Loco]

Yes, I am a Communist...as my Grandmother, my Mother and Father and my Sister.....Many have confused Marxism which involves the destruction of the Class System with the 'so-called' Communist systems of the former Soviet Union and China. We are the champions of the working class and the poor...It is us who fight and are willing to die for social change. In the United States we are responsible for Child Labor Laws, Trade Unionism, Rights of Undocumented Workers, Womens Rights, Legal help for those who cannot afford it, etc.

[David Loco]

In reading the responses to "Am I a Communist"....Are you pissed off at Stalin because of the 20 to fifty million who died in his 'revolution'. Or are you pissed off at Mao for the 30 to 40 million who died is his 'Revolution'?

[ViktorPravda]

I am just amazed. Leave you guys (and Ladies) alone for a few days and look what you do to our little corner of the world. lol

[reagan lives]

You take yourself far too seriously, vox. You seem obsessed with stating (as opposed to proving) again and again that you are "smarter" than me. As I've said before, I feel no further need to respond to such allegations, since everyone who's seen both of us post knows what the score is (with the exception of the one person here who seems to be in his own universe of delusion).
Let me ask you this, vox. What is it about me that threatens you so much?

As for your cheap shots at the 40th President, you mentioned two things that can't be proven (this does not mean, vox, that I want to see a link to some paper by William Blum or some other crackpot...this thread is not an argument over the wild allegation that Ronald Reagan was a drug smuggler), you cited an increase in payroll taxes (which pay for what again, vox?), and you mentioned that the debt increased in the Reagan years despite the Republican Senate. As I informed you in the last thread about Reagan, the Man's budget proposal was ignored by Congress every single year...had they stuck to his budget, there would have been a net surplus at the end of the Reagan years.

Nice try, though.

(Edited by reagan lives at 5:33 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

[Chancho]

>Well, fucked if I'm going to let you use me for your own superficial ends.

Rebel: "Ahhhhhhh, that was good.
::smokes cigarette::" - PMSL!!

Vox: "Let's see what his reply is, huh?
I'm just a little too sick of these folks. I've no love for them, and no use for their lies and propaganda."

Hey vox, weren't you just telling me in the death penalty thread not to waste my time? lol ... Y'know, you have more balls than me in constantly rebutting these - (to borrow a particularly hilarious term from the late Myrmidon of Che) 'asswhores'! I have to refrain or risk blowing a foofoo valve!

Reagan - you coward! I demand that you answer me on my previous question - how do you justify the appalling attempts at 'acting' that Reagan inflicted on the general populus? Hmm? Well?


(Edited by Chancho at 5:53 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

[vox]

The actions of the CIA during the Eighties are there for anyone to see. The willing blind, like Reagan Lives, show their desperation by refusing to look.

The debt increased dramitacally under Reagan. He was very proud of that.

Payroll takes increased under Reagan. He was proud of that, too.

You should at least know your boy's public record. Sheesh!

Now then, you call Blum a "crackpot," but never, not once, have you shown anything he wrote to be wrong. Not one time. Not ever. Why is that? It should be easy for you to do if you're so brilliant and he's a crackpot.

You haven't shown that any of the documentation he used was wrong at all. In fact, all you've done is dismiss him without presenting any evidence that he's wrong.

You're right, everyone has seen the posts. All that we've seen from you, Reagan Lives, is unsubstantiated right-wing rhetoric and reactionary ranting. You can't do any better than that. It's quite obvious. Aren't you embarrassed?

Nowhere have you ever shown me, or Blum, to be wrong. You lose. I win. It's very simple.

vox

[Anonymous]

Btw, why the hell is everyone scrambling to declare their non-communist status? Yes, I know that doesn't apply to all of you. If we were discussing it amongst each other for interests sake, that would be one thing. But it seems like you're trying to distance yourselves from the 'embarrassment' of communist affiliation. May I remind you that communism can also mean any and all leftist ideology - including socialism, democratic or otherwise? We should agree on our definitions before making declarations. But declarations should not be made in order to distinguish oneself from the tainted reputation of 'communism'. Remember that Che considered himself communist but ended up highly critical of the soviet model.

It seems to me that the aint communist propaganda has bin so sucessfull that even here people still fear to be named as comunists. This is unfortunate because it proves to be again what terrible damage people like stalin did to the cause of the worker.

what is comunism? is not comunism a compilation of ideas that intend to create a better society? is not comunism a process and an economic reform program exactly because economy and wealth are behind the exploitation of the lower class.

I am a COMUNIST in that i am for change, in that i dont believe the society we live in is the best. The ideas of marx and others like him are not dogmas to me because as Chomsky says and i agree, we must atchive change through experimentation and error processes. But i think colectivism and comunism are generaly good ideas and i think we should step be step see what change we can bring, starting with reforming the capitalist system to stop the major crimes that today are being commited and ending who knows... maybe colectivism, maybe comunism, maybe just maybe an equalitarian society.

-Do i suport violente revolutions? NO
-Am i in favor of a one party state? NO
-Do i agree with dictatorship of the ploretarian? NO
-Am i in favor of democracy? Yes of course, is there any thing more humanistic, more leftwing than democracy? i want MORE democracy and less state power not the other way around.

And yet i am a comunist, no one owns the term comunism, what happened in the past where interpretations of marxism in conjunction with leninism and others which i dont "have" to agree with. I would never suport revolutions or ploretarian dictatorships because as we can see when state power is not removable nore acountable it will corrupt. Power corrupts and we will end up with shit. But this doesnt mean the term comunism is tarnished, it doesnt mean there comunism is my comunism. Just like american bypartisan democracy is not my democracy.


(Edited by El_Che at 3:51 pm on Oct. 25, 2001)

[Nickademus]

i don't deny being a communist because i am afraid to associate myself with communism. i deny being a communist because i don't adhere to all the principles of communism. i adhere to many more principles of socialism.

i don't think anyone here is afraid of being labelled such, or at least being labelled as such on this board. there are lots os socialists, communists, anarchists, communist anarchists and right winged assholes on this board.

and yes i can still admire che without being a communist

[Anonymous]

nikadamos in your opinion what is the difference between socialism and comunism?

[Kez]

Quote: from El_Che on 3:47 pm on Oct. 25, 2001


Btw, why the hell is everyone scrambling to declare their non-communist status? Yes, I know that doesn't apply to all of you. If we were discussing it amongst each other for interests sake, that would be one thing. But it seems like you're trying to distance yourselves from the 'embarrassment' of communist affiliation. May I remind you that communism can also mean any and all leftist ideology - including socialism, democratic or otherwise? We should agree on our definitions before making declarations. But declarations should not be made in order to distinguish oneself from the tainted reputation of 'communism'. Remember that Che considered himself communist but ended up highly critical of the soviet model.

It seems to me that the aint communist propaganda has bin so sucessfull that even here people still fear to be named as comunists. This is unfortunate because it proves to be again what terrible damage people like stalin did to the cause of the worker.

Fear? what fear?
*Im a communist!* he shouted in the style of Spartacus
what puzzles me is that we are talking about what we are what we arnt instead of what we should be doing, i am quickly thinking that this forum seems to be for those who just talk about revolutions whereas i would like to see myself as some1 who takes a more than active part in reformin this screwed system.

Instead of telling idiots such as fatomas to stfu, we are arguing ovewr who is what democratic socialist communist, communism is the term that branches all forms of socialism, and i dont understand why we are all distancing our selves from communism when Che was a pure communist.

For more views on different typs of socialism go to
http://www.geocities.com/welcoming_comrade...ideoligies.html (http://www.geocities.com/welcoming_comrades/Ideoligies/ideoligies.html)

Hasta La Victoria Siempre!

Comrade Kamo

[Anonymous]

who cares what che was, is che your god?

and if you aint democratic you aint gonna revolutionise shit unless its over my dead body

[Kez]

Tut Tut El che
What i mean is that we are wasting our time talking about shite such as what kind of a communist are we?

What we need is a fucking revolution and if i have to say that again.....i will br proper p******d off and id have to write it again. Wake up and revolutionise.
Look around your window now, what do you see, the capitalist system in action , cars aimlessly going round and round enslaved by capitalism, and what are we doing about it? Sod all. Wake up!!!!

Comrade Kamo

[Anonymous]

sorry but i chose activism and democratic participation in oposition to revolution by arms.

sorry if i snaged at you kamo... it wasnt my intention....

[reagan lives]

[Doing my vox impression]

You failed to refute anything I said in my post.

You simply restated your previous points, which I have already refuted.

You continue to defend the objective validity of an editorialist.

I flat-out posed two questions to you, you answered neither.

I am smarter than you.

I will pad my ego by declaring, in the presence of these biased witnesses assembled, that I am the victor of the argument.

All you seem to do, vox, is try and demonize me rather than respond to issues. You accuse me of dodging facts while everyone knows that I respond to those that you put forth (see last post). Your hatemongering and demagoguery will not take you far in life, vox.

You're a loser.
[End vox impression]

Just to make it clear, the two "flat-out" questions (those are sentences that end in question marks [?], vox) were:
1) What did the payroll taxes that you whine about pay for?
2) What is it about me that threatens your safe little delusional existence so very much?

Why are you so stupid?

[AgustoSandino]

hey nice impression reagan. I suppose I should follow suit.

[everyone else on the site in response to vox, notably gooddoctor]

You are so right, I didn't even read the other post, but I disagree.

[end of impression]

[Guest]

Even though i dont post very often and iam not even a member lol, iam pretty much socialist liberitarian (i believe in the liberitarians social polices but not their economic ideas)

[sabre]

My views lean strongly socialist, but whats the difference between a democratic socialist and a socialist???

[vox]

Reagan Lives,

Where did you prove anything at all? Show me, please. You can do that, right?

Show me where you discredited Blum's research. C'mon, right-winger. You can do it, right? You're not just talking garbage again, are you?

I've asked you to do this repeatedly, and you have not.

You can not.

I'm still right, you're still wrong.

vox

[vox]

Ah Agusto,

It's good to know what you think of everyone else on the board. How very vulgar.

You can't answer my posts, as eveidenced repeatedly, so you make fun of anyone who agrees with me?

And here you are. Praising Reagan. Is that because he gives you ass pats? It's surely not because he's ever shown himself to be anything other than a reactionary right-wingnut.

vox

[TNapoleon]

Yessir, I am a communist. I believe in the need of a violent revolution. Yet I am for democracy, since there is nothing as democratic as communism.
Even a USSR-style dictatorship of the proletariat is much more democratic that what we have today - "democracies" of the bourgoisie.

I'd call myself a Leninist-Trotskyist with some Castrist-Guevarist tendencies.

[Kez]

Why is it important what kind of a socialist we are?
Again i make the point, are we to waste time debating that or are we going to change this fukked world

Secondly,
Voilent or Pascifist we need a revolution and if this forum is for people who just TALK about revolution then i hope to leave it, even though i have anjoyed many of the topics here,

[CommieBastard]

oh man, just reading this thread makes me need to have a good long lie down, and a good loada tokin...

[Guest]

This is reagan lives, from work, reviving my vox impression for an encore performance:
[/vox impression]
Where on this thread have you, vox, proven anything? Point it out to me, even though I'm going to ignore it anyway.

You continue to deny that William Blum is an editorialist. Are you stupid, or just self-serving?

You still haven't attempted to address either of my questions.

You are proving my point with every repetitive worthless post. Can you feel the credibility being sucked out of you?

I will declare once again, in the presence of these biased witnesses assembled, that I am the victor of this argument, and therefore deserve the title of Supreme Intellect of the Board. I will sit back now and await the praise and spoils that accompany my throne.
[/vox impression]

[Moskitto]

you have to work on sundays?

I feel sorry for you.

[Guest]

I'd rather earn money than sleep on Sunday, so that's what I do.

God Bless Capitalism.

[Moskitto]

sounds better than straining one of your lateral muscles.

last time i earned money on sunday was doing a paper round which really exploited you and there was really low wages, really long rounds, really heavy bags and basicly it wasn't very good. And I believe it was illegal because I had to start before 7 (which is illegal for under 16s over here)

[Jurhael]

You want to work on Sunday? Great.

But FUCK Capitalism.

Or how about "God Bless NEO Fuedalism!?" yay.

I just hate it when people sing praises about economic systems. I don't give a shit what system it is. eeesh...

(Edited by Jurhael at 10:10 pm on Oct. 28, 2001)

[reagan lives]

"I just hate it when people sing praises about economic systems."
Why is that?

[CommieBastard]

Tavareesh, it is actually a good idea to get an impression of our particular orientations before discussing what action to take, for then in the ensuing discussion we will be aware of where each person is coming from.

However, at the same time, i consider most broad classifications to be completely inadequate and by nature innacurate and biasing. They are, however, useful as long as such inadequacies are kept in mind, the same with all perception.

I am an Anarchist, but of the subdivision Anarcho-Communist, however, i would be willing to first work for either of those two things in the hope that the other would then ensue.

[Kez]

Well comrade even those the commies were not that good with the anarchists in Spain in teh civil war i believe we can change that
I have started my new website name 5th international
I have many high hopes for it, and i already have people from Amsterdam to Bahrain signing up with their communities to the 5th international

I hope people will take this seriosly and take action
We have nothing to lose but our chanins

For further information about the 5th international please contact me on
[email protected]

[gooddoctor]

i can't be arsed with communists these days. why don't they forget the past? they're giving the left a bad name by supporting national socialism.
oh, and BOO to working on sundays!!!

(Edited by gooddoctor at 11:51 pm on Oct. 28, 2001)