China

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

I've heard many people say that China isn't really communist for cirtain reasons, but what are those reasons? Can somebody please explain whats wrong with China's form of communism.

Thanks

[Comrade Ceausescu]

well, precisely what is wrong with china's "communism" is that thats what its not!its not communist,socialist,nothing.After vthe death of China's only great Communist leader,Mao Tse Tung,there was a revisionist coup led by Deng Xiaoping,which wanted to start cozy realations with the west,and things like that.china is run by rich ceo's-bouregoise intellectuals.just click on this link,and scroll down the page for a great comic on chinese communism right now.Click Here (http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1960)

[Marxist in Nebraska]

A country cannot really be communist when one of the primary functions of its economy is to provide sweatshop labor for the biggest capitalist--the United States.

[Bradyman]

China is not a communist country because it folded into the outside pressures of the capitalist nations as did most other "communist" states. Frankly, the communist party of China was not represented in the UN for the longest time, and since Nixon's visit to the East, China has opened its doors to the seeds of capitalism. Though China says it fights for workers rights, it is really led by an elite group making quick cash from the enslavement of thousands of workers that produce items that you have in your room right now. China is a capitalist state.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

precisely.i urge all of you to AT LEAST boycott nike,because it is not a neccesity.you dont HAVE to have nike products.i am not familiar with many large corporations that enforce sweatshops,but i know for sure that nike certainly does.

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

iight, I'm beggining to get the picture, thanks.

cheguevara717, good call i dont shop nike anymore. i say im at least 2 years nike shop free :D

[Beccie]

I don't know much about the issue but I thought that China was no longer Communist because the leaders currently believe that a market economy is the most efficient and that is the economy they are heading towards. They have also become members of the WTO.

[marxstudent]

A lot of Chinese from China buy up a lot of expensive property in the U.S. like in parts of Monterey Park, San Gabriel. How are they able to do this?

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 01:31 AM
A lot of Chinese from China buy up a lot of expensive property in the U.S. like in parts of Monterey Park, San Gabriel. How are they able to do this?
Because you can get rich in China. Most Chinese who come to the west are well-off people.

[RED CHARO]

China started off by setting up special economic zones, in the lead up to the handing over of Hong Kong. In these zones capitalism was 'allowed'......
Unfortunately the zones have spread to all of Chinas mayor cities, creating a giant city / country gap....
As for the sweat shops, As is a statement of mine, socialism is too much on the budget and the revival of capitalism in any Communist society indicates that society is falling apart......
I also blame capitalism for the Chinese people, opting for boys rather than girls in the 1 child policy...... As poor peasents see yuppie Chinese buissnes men driving around in BMWs, and makeing people think only males can have that type of money!

[crazy comie]

china is also run by beuracrates

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

did the current leader of china (whoever he is:S) in fact say "its great to be rich" ?

[Fidelbrand]

it's State capitalism ----> an oxymoron! :huh:

[crazy comie]

china is going futher and futher right wing it has quit a few homegrown privatly owend companys

[James]

hmm
I'm going to admit that i know very little of the economics of the country - except for what everyone knows (see above comments on EPZs).

We must ask however, why did the system become more and more capitalist?

Was it a flaw in the chinese way of communism?
Or was it a combination of outside factors - which made it impossible for it to work?

In answer to the question - is it communist - you'll find there are as many types of communists as there are Christians. Each group values things differently. Thus you must establish what you to believe to be communism, and look to see if China meets your deff. or not.

I really don't know though. Why post then you may ask yourself. Well i don't know that either really.

[marxstudent]

Because you can get rich in China. Most Chinese who come to the west are well-off people.
Not everyone.



china is going futher and futher right wing it has quit a few homegrown privatly owend companys
Yeah. My uncle has his own business in China and he's doing very well.

[crazy comie]

china is no where near communism

[YKTMX]

China is a capitalist state. The only reason anyone assumes it is "communist" is because the "Communist Party" are in control and it once had a revolution lead by someone who was apparently a "Communist".It also has characteristics (Human Right abuses, lack of democracy) that are attributed to Cold War era Stalinist or "Communist" countries. Anyone who believes that anything approaching Communism is being practiced in any country in the word now - or at any time - is being quite foolosh.

[crazy comie]

inded that is true

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

It is pretty plain to see that any place that guns down innocent students for demanding human rights, completely dismantles all collectivization, lets multi-millionaires into Central Committee positions in the Communist Party, and is dominated by corporate money is NOT a Socialist nation. There are a great number of articles on http://rwor.org/s/china.htm that have analyzed a lot about what happened in China after the Coup in 1976 (which overthrew the revolutionaries in the Communist Party of China and replaced them with authoritarian revisionists), and it is very saddening to see such terrible things happen to such a great nation.

However, I have confidence in the Chinese people. They will not rest long. Like a sleeping dragon, someday the traitorous capitalist roaders will know the full fury of proletarian revolution once more...

[VI Koba]

Yeah Andrei.. I'd have to say that those can give us a few clues to what direction the Chinese government plans on going.

Another point thats worth mentioning is that because the state authority is governed by a 'communist' party this greatly damages the ability for communists to organized because the opposition will only point to the government and blame their capitalist oppression on a 'communist' government. This is whats plaguing the USSR at current and it will plague China too if they dont put in any preventive medicine.

I know that tienemen square was an action to stop the revisionist trend of China.. But what are the Chinese revolutionaries doing today? I think it would be rather imperitive of them to come together and unilaterally denounce the Chinese government as a full blown capitalist state if they havent done so already.

[Ian]

China no longer cares for the welfare of its people, it is almost entirely capitalistic.

I know a persyn who's father is a businessman and who does business with China, an official from the Communist Party of China was sent over to do negotiations and the like, and after a few days he bought the persyn I know a fucking xbox and a heap of games and a few days after that he bought the guy and his younger brother football jerseys. Now you cannot say that was money well spent by a nation who's people live in terrible conditions.

Question for Maoists, are the 'gang of four' heroes to you guys? It just sounds like it is a negative title, but then I think what they tried to do and what they tried to prevent and wonder why you would use that negative title given to them by Deng and his cronies.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Ian [email protected] 18 2003, 08:12 AM
China no longer cares for the welfare of its people, it is almost entirely capitalistic.

I know a persyn who's father is a businessman and who does business with China, an official from the Communist Party of China was sent over to do negotiations and the like, and after a few days he bought the persyn I know a fucking xbox and a heap of games and a few days after that he bought the guy and his younger brother football jerseys. Now you cannot say that was money well spent by a nation who's people live in terrible conditions.

Question for Maoists, are the 'gang of four' heroes to you guys? It just sounds like it is a negative title, but then I think what they tried to do and what they tried to prevent and wonder why you would use that negative title given to them by Deng and his cronies.
" The gang of 4" stirred up the cultural revolution which made millions die and got exploited immorally. They took advantage of Mao 's psychological state (he was synnal (wrong speeling) during his old age). How can we praise them ? or give them a good name?

As for China, all i want to say , as i m living in Hong Kong now ------> CHINA IS A HIGHLY CAPITALISTIC STATE NOWADAYS. PERIOD. they are evolving.... away from the ideals of communism....... communism is dead in China.

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 08:22 AM


As for China, ------> CHINA IS A HIGHLY CAPITALISTIC STATE NOWADAYS. PERIOD. they are evolving.... away from the ideals of communism....... communism is dead in China.
That is true

[Hawker]

China since Mao died,has gone down the dark path.Deng has turned Communist China into a Capitalist Iron Fist Monarchy.Communism's main purpose was to try to protect the working class and abolish the state,yet many people in China are rich and many are poor,and the workers in China a treated so badly like the workers in a Nike sweat shop.Just to say,China is a full blown Capitalist state.

[crazy comie]

i don't think it was even socialist when mao was incharge.

[VI Koba]

Crazy.. what do you disagree with on China? Of course they didnt achieve the Final Victory of Socialism but I certainly think Maos policies put them on the road. What disagreeance do you have with Chinas Revolution?

[crazy comie]

i think mao was a great man in many aspects but i dislike him becuse he is a stalinist and there for belived in a dictatorship over the prolitarian

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Ian [email protected] 18 2003, 08:12 AM
Question for Maoists, are the 'gang of four' heroes to you guys? It just sounds like it is a negative title, but then I think what they tried to do and what they tried to prevent and wonder why you would use that negative title given to them by Deng and his cronies.
I don't think anyone here is a Maoist. Anyway, amongst Marxist-Leninists it can be divided. Forgetting Trots of course you then have some people who say the cultural revolution was wrong, those who say it was the correct path to take, do of course support the 'gang of four'.

I support what they did, at the time a lot of people thought it would spell a new era of prosperity for China as they would avoid the revisionism of the Soviet Union. The economy however was also part of the equation and that needed to succeed simultaneously, in addition Mao died so no one can know what would have happened.

[VI Koba]

Crazy.... I knot Trots hate Stalin but we have to think progressively.. Stalin and Trotsky are long dead... what is needed to make revolution go forward and what needs to be done to get revolution working.

It is unfortunate that just about every Trot I speak to turns every debate into a Stalin vs Trotsky thread. In order to put meaning into your claims that China was 'Dictatorship over the proletariat' .. We must first look at the situation in China, what policies were made that made you feel this and in what ways could it have been better or worse. Also more importantly, what does China and the Global proletariat need to do today.

It would be great to have everyone rise up but accomplishing this would be rather impossible as a first step to revolution. What steps do you think are necessary?

[FabFabian]

It all started going down the tubes once they were allowed to wear their own clothes. :P They went from their peoples revolution uniforms to wearing Yves St. Laurent.

Does anyone remember those days???

[crazy comie]

I think china is a dicktatorship over the prolitarian becuse the chinease govermant is not elected by the prolitarian yet it controls evrything and has become more a more selfish since mao stoped being chairman.