Hi.

[bobbrown]

Hi. I've always supported the left. I am pro healthcare, social security etc...

I guessed I've joined because I am a bit bored, something to do, and to learn a bit! (and to learn how to give those right wing freaks a lesson or two!)

Although, I must say I am against communism, I am pro freedom. I hope that is not a problem?

[ellipsis]

Hmmm no problem... yet...

Welcome.

[Lorax]

Here's hoping you understand that you can support communism and "freedom" at the same time. If you don't, that's ok- most people here in the U.S. don't understand the difference between what happened under Stalin or Mao and actual socialism or communism. There are a bunch of true Stalinist and Maoist believers on this very forum so I can see how it would be very confusing.

The terms you're using may be a little more complicated than you realize. For example, how do you define freedom, how do you define communism, and how do you define social security?

Assuming you're from the United States, supporting social security means eliminating the freedom of workers to avoid paying some payroll taxes that are (in theory) used to give modest pensions to some older retired people. My point is it sounds great to say you support freedom but it's not that simple. Do you support the freedom to never pay taxes? To shoplift? To wage war and revolution against unjust governments? Or do you just support the freedom to do whatever a hypothetically democratic government says you are allowed to do?

[bobbrown]

Here's hoping you understand that you can support communism and "freedom" at the same time. If you don't, that's ok- most people here in the U.S. don't understand the difference between what happened under Stalin or Mao and actual socialism or communism. There are a bunch of true Stalinist and Maoist believers on this very forum so I can see how it would be very confusing.

The terms you're using may be a little more complicated than you realize. For example, how do you define freedom, how do you define communism, and how do you define social security?

Assuming you're from the United States, supporting social security means eliminating the freedom of workers to avoid paying some payroll taxes that are (in theory) used to give modest pensions to some older retired people. My point is it sounds great to say you support freedom but it's not that simple. Do you support the freedom to never pay taxes? To shoplift? To wage war and revolution against unjust governments? Or do you just support the freedom to do whatever a hypothetically democratic government says you are allowed to do?

By freedom I mean freedom to choose your religion, associates, and free speech. That is all.

That is, one can write a letter to the government and they should be free to say whatever they desire in that letter. Communist governments have a history of opposing this. That is why I am more of a socialist. Who is to say that, one day, while living in a hypothetically perfect government, it then turns into an unjust one in future. You should be free to associate with your peers to overthrow that government! You should have free speech in order to overthrow it!

This then gives us the ability to discuss things like health care, and social security. Freedom guarantees us the ability to believe in these things, communism historically does not.

btw, I'm in Australia.

[Lorax]

You can support freedom of speech, press, religion and so forth and still be a communist. There is room for disagreement about civil liberties within communist theory. Say the wrong thing in a letter to an American (or Australian) politician and I think you could find yourself in hot water, freedom of speech or no. In any case, welcome to the forum comrade. :thumbup1:

[bobbrown]

You can support freedom of speech, press, religion and so forth and still be a communist. There is room for disagreement about civil liberties within communist theory. Say the wrong thing in a letter to an American (or Australian) politician and I think you could find yourself in hot water, freedom of speech or no. In any case, welcome to the forum comrade. :thumbup1:

Alright, thanks for the welcome. I'll just keep my eyes focused, and try to learn about other prespectives:)