Revolution Is Imminent. Everyone Can Feel It. Rich ****: Beware

[Rakhmetov]

All hell is breaking loose. They want us to work until we are 70 and they want to put you in your grave before they pay you your entitled pension. We'll see about that.

:sneaky:

[Die Rote Fahne]

inb4 shitstorm that "****" is sexist.

[OhYesIdid]

Wait, what? Where is it breaking loose? Greece is a joke, as far as I know, and the arab protests have been hijacked.

[Tommy4ever]

Stop making threads.

[Kamos]

Revolution is imminent indeed. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean we'll see it anytime soon. Even if the revolution was to be successful in Greece, that means nothing unless it triggers a revolutionary wave affecting at least a big region.

[Rakhmetov]

Stop making threads.


Everyone knows the last time there was Greek crisis (last year 2010) the stock market plunged by 1,000 points because the bourgeois said there was "fat finger" that caused the slippery slope on the stocks. :rolleyes:

[PhoenixAsh]

I think a succesful revolution in Greece will have a whole lot of immediate effect. Not only for the Greeks themselves....but also for teh European Union.

Not only will it cause serious problem for European capital en EU economic system; it will also put a serious dent in the political union an it will have profound effect on Spain and Portugal and the working class there and it will raise awareness and the feeling something can be accomplished and changed.

[Sasha]

inb4 shitstorm that "****" is sexist.


euh, yeah, please refrain from using this word in the future, no matter how well intended, its not acceptable here. verbal warning etc

[Dogs On Acid]

We all know that if a socialist revolution in a 3rd or 2nd world country is victorious, a 1st world country would have to follow very soon for it to survive.

In all honesty I don't see that happening ATM.

[danyboy27]

the whole fucking economical system is falling down like a freaking house of card.

Succesfull or not, hacked or not. all this worldwide activity is the symptom that the system is under tremendous pressure caused by its own contradictions.

I cant predict the future, nobody can, but i dont see any signs that the situation will get ''under control'' anytime soon.

In the past i remember that shit was bad, when i was young, in the 1990s, but today is so fucked up, make me wonder how much this system can take.

[Dogs On Acid]

In the past i remember that shit was bad, when i was young, in the 1990s, but today is so fucked up, make me wonder how much this system can take.

I think a whole lot more comrade, at least in developed countries. The proletariat can be enslaved much worse than right now. It will of-course cause unrest though...

Like you said, we can't predict the future 100%.

[S.Artesian]

Revolution is imminent indeed. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean we'll see it anytime soon. Even if the revolution was to be successful in Greece, that means nothing unless it triggers a revolutionary wave affecting at least a big region.


Revolution is always immanent to capitalism, not imminent. Imminence is a probability. Immanence is a certainty. It is part of the reproduction of capital.

That being said, possibilities are certainly immense, expanding, and.... dire. But "crisis" such as it is, is critical to capital; essential, necessary, fundamental to the circuit of accumulation.

So.... so if the proletariat can break through the fractionalization of itself as a class, by gender, by race, as "organized" vs. "unorganized," "immigrant" vs. "native" yeah, now we're doing more than talking.

The forecast is hot, and the heat, as a drill sergeant told me, is your friend.

And yeah, that word is sexist, and worse, it's one of the 2 or 3 ugliest, most oppressive words in the English language.

[RadioRaheem84]

I agree with a previous poster, the Middle East protests have been all but hijacked by liberals. The Egyptian one especially by the media darling bourgoise yuppies that thought they brought down Mubarak through Facebook, has been an abysmal failure.

Greece is looking like it's going nowhere. We'll see now that the Greek Parliament told them to fuck off.

I just don't see any real revolution happening at all.

[S.Artesian]

I agree with a previous poster, the Middle East protests have been all but hijacked by liberals. The Egyptian one especially by the media darling bourgoise yuppies that thought they brought down Mubarak through Facebook, has been an abysmal failure.

Greece is looking like it's going nowhere. We'll see now that the Greek Parliament told them to fuck off.

I just don't see any real revolution happening at all.


"And The Darkest Hour Is Just Before Dawn"-- The Shirelles, This is Dedicated to the One I Love -- probably before your time. A song going out to all those poor slobs who got drafted and were fed into the big green machine.

[RadioRaheem84]

Hey I want to be proven wrong!

[Die Rote Fahne]

:blushing: My apologies to psycho . Thought he was referring to my use of it, and issuing a warning to me...

Keep it in context folks!

[Reznov]

To the OP, your going to be very disappointed in life.

[La Comédie Noire]

There's just so little political organization and so much room for right wingers to maneuver. Everyone I've talked to about this crisis in the United States buys the right wing narrative.

"It's the fault of lazy people and their protectors in big government. We need to tighten our belts and punish the corrupt."

There are historical reasons for this, but at the same time the right wing argument is sexier, probably because of its simplicity. Their message appeals to fear and anger, its a shout in the street, a battle slogan, something that looks good on a banner. They don't even have to propose anything new, just a tearing down and blaming of enemies both imagined and real.

Leftists are tasked with not only tearing down the old order, but proposing an alternative that runs against everything we've been told from birth.

Let's put it this way, the right has to push a boulder down hill letting gravity do most of the work. We have to push it uphill, digging our heels in and battling every inch of the way.

From what I understand, the movement in Greece is replete with "little guy" populism and petty nationalism. Is it true? Are we just sitting here kidding ourselves, getting enthused over riot porn?

[Salyut]

Give it another century.

Maybe.

[Jose Gracchus]

I think a century is absurd. A lot changes in a generation. Why, in 1968 French workers were having a nation-wide wildcat general strike.

Moreover, I really don't know if by 2111 there will be enough pieces left to put together into socialism. I think socialism or barbarism might be an absolute proposition in the 21st century.

[Zav]

The revolutions happening now lack revolutionary direction. There also really is not all that much class consciousness. Unless a Greek Lenin surfaces, the actual Revolution won't happen when Capitalism is as strong as it is presently.

[Jose Gracchus]

You're in the IWW and you think the Greek workers need to a Greek Lenin like a magical puzzle piece?

Is this how people think historical revolutions actually occurred? Jesus Christ read a book.

[Thirsty Crow]

Sexism and bias is obviously not gender-specific...:rolleyes:
Yes, in fact it is. In its primary manifestation, ot relates to the power structures of a society based on gender. In most of human society in this ay and age sexism is very gender-specific.

On topic: form where I stand, I don't think that this part of Europe (central, south-eastern with an exception in Greece, and eastern) would see a significant rise in working class militancy and organizing, not even if there were to be serious perturbations in Greece. In fact, I'm worried sick of a potential scenario which stipulates a posssiblity for the rise of Fascism as a political force (prime example being Hungary, but I do think that things could get even worse in that we might see Fascist states if there were a workers' revolution in Greece or the Iberian penninsula, which I doubt there would be).

[punisa]

As soon as Greece falls you will see a big domino effect in the Balkans, I am certain.
But what the hell are you waiting for my southern comrades? :(

[RadioRaheem84]

Greece already fell, the Parliament just voted in the austerity measures that will send Greeks back in living standards. Just what is going on over there. Greece should've revolted in '68 fashion!

[S.Artesian]

Greece already fell, the Parliament just voted in the austerity measures that will send Greeks back in living standards. Just what is going on over there. Greece should've revolted in '68 fashion!


Patience, comrade, patience. '68 didn't overthrow the bourgeoisie. Look the bourgeoisie aren't anywhere near burning off all the non-performing debt on their books.

This struggle is still, after 3.5 years, in its infancy.

[Tim Cornelis]

In the history of socialism (200 years or so), we are the furthest away from revolution as ever before. The revolutionary socialist movement is the smallest it has ever been.

How do you see this revolution coming soon exactly?

[Tim Cornelis]

So fucking what? How many women do you know who beat their male mate during half-time of the Superbowl, historically a day when many women show in ER's in the US having "fallen"? How many men are killed by female relatives for "disgracing the family"? How many men are killed by their female partners for having affairs? How many men are raped by relatives?

Cut the crap. It's a question of power.

Now back to the original topic, if you have anything to say about capitalism, and if not, just go away.

In the Netherlands in 4 out of 10 cases of domestic violence a man is the victim.

[Tim Cornelis]

It will not just be a domino effect that affects the Balkan. As soon as Greece "falls" Spain, Portugal and Ireland will fall with it and as a consequence the entire European Union, and then the US and the rest of the world.

But just because there's going to be another global financial crisis does not mean the end of capitalism is near. Like the Great Depression did not lead to the collapse of capitalism.

Like I said, the revolutionary socialist movement is the smallest it has ever been. And youths are generally not idealistic like they were in the 1960s (or 70s or even 80s).

[S.Artesian]

Are you addressing me?

I don't know that we are the furthest away we've ever been. I don't think we're any further than we were in 1939; 1979, nor 1999 for that matter.

The bourgeoisie have been conducting an offensive for 35 years, about. Working class has repeatedly had its ass kicked. No doubt. But....

But class combat has advanced in the last 3 years. General strikes in France, Spain, Portugal. Seizure of the government capital in the state of Wisconsin in the US. Certainly setbacks have occurred-- in just those exact same areas of combat. That's the way it goes.

I don't know if the revolutionary struggle will be successful. I do know such revolutionary struggle is inherent in capitalism; is unavoidable; will expand.

One thing I try to keep in mind, and believe me I'm no optimist-- in 1914 at the start of WW1, workers chased Bolsheviks out of the factories and threatened to lynch them because of the Bolsheviks opposition to the war. Three years later....and the workers were demanding the soviets take power from the Provisional Revolutionary Government to end that war.

Those were the days, of course, when the Bolsheviks were worth chasing, and worth joining.

[S.Artesian]

In the Netherlands in 4 out of 10 cases of domestic violence a man is the victim.


And who's the perpetrator?


The numbers in the US are quite, quite, different.

[Tim Cornelis]

But class combat has advanced in the last 3 years. General strikes in France, Spain, Portugal. Seizure of the government capital in the state of Wisconsin in the US. Certainly setbacks have occurred-- in just those exact same areas of combat. That's the way it goes.


Yeah, but these strikes are not part of a revolutionary anti-capitalist program. Quite the opposite, those strikes are intended to achieve certain reforms within the capitalist system.

[S.Artesian]

In the Netherlands in 4 out of 10 cases of domestic violence a man is the victim.


That's hardly the whole story:


The Domestic Violence in the Netherlands investigation revealed that more than 200.000 individuals in the Netherlands fall victim to domestic violence every year.

The investigation was performed by the Research and Documentation Centre (http://www.onderzoekinformatie.nl/en/oi/nod/organisatie/ORG1237021/) and the INTERVICT Institute (http://www.tilburguniversity.edu/research/institutes-and-research-groups/intervict/) 13 years after the first one and reveals that:
› Most perpetrators of domestic violence are men (83%).
› Most victims of serious domestic violence are women (60%).
› 25% of the victims have attempted suicide.
› 30% of perpetrators often commit other crimes within two years.
› Physical (sexual) violence counts for 65% (8%) of the cases.
› Approximately 40% (15%) of victims have been temporarily (permanently) injured.
› In many cases, perpetrators have been or still are victims of domestic violence.
› Nearly 20% of domestic violence is reported to the Dutch police. Back in 1997, reports counted for 12% of the cases.



Don't know what the (%) refer to.

Most perpetrators are men. In addition the violence inflicted on males is generally that domestic violence inflicted on male children, whereas women are victims through their young and beyond adult status.

Most domestic violence with resulting in serious physical injury, and disabling long term effects is sustained by women, inflicted by men.

[Manic Impressive]

"**** is a vulgarism, primarily referring to the female genitalia, specifically the vulva, and including the cleft of Venus."

Seems like its origins are unambiguous. The word is an insult with sexist connotations. It refers to female genitalia. Like the similar word "pussy" it is a sexist insult.
quote the whole thing not just the bit that backs up your point. That's slightly dishonest imo


**** is a vulgarism (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgarism), primarily referring to the female genitalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genitalia),[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****#cite_note-0) specifically the vulva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulva), and including the cleft of Venus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudendal_cleft). The earliest citation of this usage in the 1972 Oxford English Dictionary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary), c 1230, refers to the London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London) street known as Grope**** Lane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grope****_Lane). Scholar Germaine Greer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer) has said that "it is one of the few remaining words in the English language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language) with a genuine power to shock."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****#cite_note-Balderdash_.26_Piffle-1)
**** is also used informally as a derogatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derogatory) epithet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithet) in referring to a person of either sex, but this usage is relatively recent, dating back only as far as the late nineteenth century.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****#cite_note-Morton-2) Reflecting different national usages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language), the Compact Oxford English Dictionary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Oxford_English_Dictionary_of_Current_Engli sh) defines **** as "an unpleasant or stupid person", whereas Merriam-Webster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merriam-Webster) has a usage of the term as "usually disparaging & obscene: woman",[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****#cite_note-3) noting that it is used in the US as "an offensive way to refer to a woman";[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****#cite_note-4) the Macquarie Dictionary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_Dictionary) of Australian English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English) defines it as "a despicable man", however when used with a positive qualifier (good, funny, clever, etc.) in countries such as Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand) and Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia), it conveys a positive sense of the object or person referred to.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****#cite_note-Irvine_Welsh-5)

[Rusty Shackleford]

Revolution is not imminent, and it is not "far away."

The struggle of socialism is on the rise again. After the world-historic defeat for socialism with the fall if basically every self-proclaimed socialist government save a handful, and a massive shift to the right in the chinese CP, the left basically died in the 90s. But, we are back.

Maybe in the US, the return to mass struggle came in the wake of Seattle '99, or 9/11/01. but that doesnt really matter. What matters is that we work to build the movement. Work to actually establish a revolutionary proletarian party. Or, to work to establish councils or mass unions or what have you.

Whats going on in Greece is very exciting but the situation is changing daily. I mean, the govt just agreed to 5 years of more cuts and higher taxes on everyone to pay off the banks the and IMF.

[S.Artesian]

Yeah, but these strikes are not part of a revolutionary anti-capitalist program. Quite the opposite, those strikes are intended to achieve certain reforms within the capitalist system.


Yes, but revolution does not spring fully formed from the forehead of a statue of Karl Marx. Actions begin as defensive actions-- attempts to protect or restore what is being threatened. Moving over to the offense, to the notion of class power abolishing the system of threats, takes some time. Uneven and combined development characterizes the development of class struggle as well as that of capitalism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

If we aren't allowed to say ****, I demand that cock is also marked on the list of no-noes. Sexism goes both ways.

I get really fucking tired of the matriarchist bullshit stating that if you sneeze wrong, you are sexist.

what the fuck is this bullshit

[Steve_j]

A lot of soothsaying going on in this thread.

[bcbm]

i think in the coming years we will see revolutions and many other upheavals. i don't think we should be looking too positively towards the future though, i think things are looking fairly bleak actually in a lot of ways. but the next 1-5 years will likely be pretty important.

[Blackscare]

Greece is looking like it's going nowhere. We'll see now that the Greek Parliament told them to fuck off.

I just don't see any real revolution happening at all.


Wait, what? Do you think that revolution is supposed to happen with the consent of parliament? It may make life much worse for Greeks in the 3-6 weeks before they inevitably default, but this sort of betrayal in parliament is exactly what anyone with a brain would expect and exactly the sort of thing that could tip Greece over the edge.

I don't see how parliament telling them to "fuck off" has any relevance beyond stoking the flames further. Not that I think Greece will necessarily be waving the red flag anytime soon, but your reasoning is flawed.

[RadioRaheem84]

Most of the time when Parliaments pass something, I expect the riots and protests to dwindle. I saw it in WI and in France.

[Coach Trotsky]

A lot of soothsaying going on in this thread.

Agreed. Less soothsaying, more subjective revolutionary interventions by you and me to actually change this world.

We determine the future by our actions (and inactions), for better or worse.

[Coach Trotsky]

Most of the time when Parliaments pass something, I expect the riots and protests to dwindle. I saw it in WI and in France.

And that usually happens because the union bureaucrats and "Left" politicians are fully coopted, integrated into and in the service of the ruling class and its state. They are dedicated to this system, NOT to us. When push comes to shove, they will always chose the system over us.

It ain't because the working people who came out to the streets lost their will or ability to fight onwards, because that ain't what happens until they discover that they been sold out or mislead down a dead-end course so that some corrupt fake-friends of working people can get their 30 shekels of silver and a little more time in their positions of power and societal status (if not also negotiating a promotion for themselves out of the deal). It's because those fucking sellout misleaders who pretend to be the representatives of working people and oppressed people are NOT our friends, NOT our champions, NOT our messiahs, but are instead are safety-valve side-show distractions, "political correctness" overseers, and even corrupted enforcers and snitches.

Look at their deeds, then judge accordingly. To hell with their pandering posturing and rhetoric...it's like the oldest political trick in the book! It's about time us workers learned not to keep falling for that trick, and stop looking for some external sweet-talking saviors pretending to work "from above" in the bourgeois state politics for our interests.

The only people we should have any interest in electing into office in a bourgeois state are those publicly committed to the proletarian revolutionary overthrow of the bourgeois state, the destruction of capitalism, the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat and the building of socialist society...and whose deeds consistently show that they mean what they say. We don't want them to go reform capitalist society, but to frustrate the ruling class enemy and to constantly mobilize the masses of workers and the oppressed to destroy this exploitative and oppressive society with our own mass power.The power of the proletariat will not be exercised through the bourgeois state, but through its own independent organs of proletarian power. We will conquer their power with our own power and liberate ourselves with our own hands!

[Thirsty Crow]

As soon as Greece falls you will see a big domino effect in the Balkans, I am certain.
But what the hell are you waiting for my southern comrades? :(
What kind of a domino effect? Do you really think that workers here are ready for a fight on their own, without and against the unions' leadership which is an abomination of anti-working class attitude (except in rhetoric) and given the fact that the recent war brought a tide of anti-communism, that being worsened by the insistence on linking almost anything related to worker's rights (even mild progressivism) to the oh so hated communism?