Division of mental and physical labor

[Kamil]

What is the definition of the division between mental and physical labor? How would the division of labor in the mental/physical sense be overcome? What steps have been taken in the past to acheive this? What is your understanding of this concept? How do you envision it functioning under communism?

[Mr. Cervantes]

What is the definition of the division between mental and physical labor? How would the division of labor in the mental/physical sense be overcome? What steps have been taken in the past to acheive this? What is your understanding of this concept? How do you envision it functioning under communism?

Are you talking about skilled versus non skilled or specialization versus non specialization?

[Strannik]

My understanding is this: I think it's a social problem in current mode of production. Very generally, in current division of labor, some people are specialized on making plans, others on realizing them. Under communism everyone would be able to both make a plan and realize necessary actions for making the plan a reality.

[syndicat]

all labor is mental. employers don't hire workers who can't think. to do anything requires some concentration, thought processes, etc.

however, there is in the late capitalist division of labor a tendency towards the concentration of decision-making authority and expertise into the hands of a relative few. this is implemented in the hierarchical control of the labor process.

also, the tedency to de-skilling and reducing the amount of "skilled labor".

i put "skilled labor" in scare quotes because all jobs involve some skill. but when people talk about "skilled labor" they are talking about jobs that require a fairly long period of study and preparation over a period of years. this could be a lengthy apprenticeship, a professional program in a college, or a two-year community college program.

[Kamil]

"Are you talking about skilled versus non skilled or specialization versus non specialization"

Thats what I'm talking about, lets establish exactly what we all mean when we speak of "the mental and physical division of labor". Skilled/non-skilled and specialization/non-specialization, are you saying these two are the ways in which the mental/physical division of labor is manifested in society? In this scenario I would identify the skilled and specialized workers as the "mental" half.

"In current division of labor, some people are specialized on making plans, others on realizing them. Under communism everyone would be able to both make a plan and realize necessary actions for making the plan a reality"

The mental/physical division of labor defined by the separation between those in the plan making process (mental, management) and those enacting those plans (physical, workers) is concise but splendid framework.

"but when people talk about "skilled labor" they are talking about jobs that require a fairly long period of study and preparation over a period of years. this could be a lengthy apprenticeship, a professional program in a college, or a two-year community college program."

Excellent reference point for the discussion! Thank you!

"tendency towards the concentration of decision-making authority and expertise into the hands of a relative few"

It would seem this decision-making authority is identical with the group whose occupation is the planning portion of affairs mentioned Strannik, ownership of the enterprise is bound up with this also . It would seem also that this group of planners is in turn to be composed primarily of said skilled and specialized workers.

In conclusion:
How de we prevent/end the monopoly of planning and decision-making by skilled and specialized workers?

How do we alleviate the class differences between skilled/specialized workers and their non-skilled/non-specialized counterparts?

What are some ways to involve the workers of a particular enterprise in the planning and decision-making process?

[bcbm]

people being tied to one type of work forever would be almost or completely nonexistent in a communist society so i think that would solve some of the problems you raise

[Mr. Cervantes]

"Are you talking about skilled versus non skilled or specialization versus non specialization"

Thats what I'm talking about, lets establish exactly what we all mean when we speak of "the mental and physical division of labor". Skilled/non-skilled and specialization/non-specialization, are you saying these two are the ways in which the mental/physical division of labor is manifested in society? In this scenario I would identify the skilled and specialized workers as the "mental" half.

"In current division of labor, some people are specialized on making plans, others on realizing them. Under communism everyone would be able to both make a plan and realize necessary actions for making the plan a reality"

The mental/physical division of labor defined by the separation between those in the plan making process (mental, management) and those enacting those plans (physical, workers) is concise but splendid framework.

"but when people talk about "skilled labor" they are talking about jobs that require a fairly long period of study and preparation over a period of years. this could be a lengthy apprenticeship, a professional program in a college, or a two-year community college program."

Excellent reference point for the discussion! Thank you!

"tendency towards the concentration of decision-making authority and expertise into the hands of a relative few"

It would seem this decision-making authority is identical with the group whose occupation is the planning portion of affairs mentioned Strannik, ownership of the enterprise is bound up with this also . It would seem also that this group of planners is in turn to be composed primarily of said skilled and specialized workers.

In conclusion:
How de we prevent/end the monopoly of planning and decision-making by skilled and specialized workers?

How do we alleviate the class differences between skilled/specialized workers and their non-skilled/non-specialized counterparts?

What are some ways to involve the workers of a particular enterprise in the planning and decision-making process?

Modern division of labor between the skilled and non-skilled or the specialized versus the non- specialized is very interesting.

The non- skilled forms of labor are almost always the most miserable or non-desired positions of any society to do where to be a non- skilled laborer in today's atmosphere is to be sentenced to a life of forced slavery and servitude constantly being paid low wages.

The specialists on the otherhand have the more prominent positions that is rewarded with status, privilege, and prestige to which they always see themselves as more entitled or deserving in the fruits of their labor versus the non specialists. What this really creates is two dual social classes within society of masters and slaves.


To the specialist they see their work as more important than the nonspecialists to which they view themselves as more entitled and deserving of a higher living standard. For the specialists they see themselves as the producers amongst the rest of the population whom they view as non-producers. Of course to the specialists this is all apart of the higher natural social hierarchy of things to which for the rest of us we must vigorously question.

I'm curious what other communists opinion is on all of that. Personally I would like to obliterate all of that sentimentality.



bcbm: people being tied to one type of work forever would be almost or completely nonexistent in a communist society so i think that would solve some of the problems you raise.

How would this work out?