Venture Communism

[Mr. Cervantes]

Lately I've been thinking about moving to Cuba or Colombia through immigration in order to build a new life for myself.

I've been thinking about opening up a couple of businesses in both countries not to mention investing in some trade exchanges however I think of myself as a principled communist in that I believe if I was to do all of this that there most definately should be a fair distribution for all the workers and people involved in starting up a business.

This whole thing has got me thinking, what would the business ethics and virtues of a communist look like?

So I've decided to create this thread devoted to answering the simple yet complex question, what would the business ethics and virtues of a communist look like?

[ZeroNowhere]

This whole thing has got me thinking, what would the business ethics and virtues of a communist look like?The business ethics of a communist would look quite nonexistent. Communism doesn't really have anything to do with business ethics. Neither does business, in actual fact.

[Mr. Cervantes]

The business ethics of a communist would look quite nonexistent. Communism doesn't really have anything to do with business ethics. Neither does business, in actual fact.

How would a communist go about being a entrepreneur or tradesman then? :D

[Blackscare]

If you absolutely had to, I suggest you open a one-man operation. Don't exploit people's labor value if it makes you sleep better at night; open a little shop or empenada stand.


Or invest in Lao PDR's new hydro plant that's opening in a few years.

[Forward Union]

How would the head of the Coca Cola corporation in Colombia go about organising a union to destroy his own company? How would Iraq go about helping Iran invade it?

It's not possible for a business to operate in a communist fashion, because communism calls for the abolition of all private ownership in favour of collective management. You're asking how you can collectively manage something privately. The question doesn't make sense in the English language, and displays such a gross misunderstanding of what communism is that it makes me want to throw up things I can't even remember eating. You may wish to run a bussiness ethically, but that's called bourgeois liberalism and is really the worst of both worlds, not only would you be a member of the Petit-bourgeoisie but you would also stunt your business aspirations with pathetic liberal moralism.

If you ran a bussiness, and the workers in your charge wanted to abolish your position of authority, take your excess wealth and decision making power, and run the factory without you. How would you respond?

[Mr. Cervantes]

How would the head of the Coca Cola corporation in Colombia go about organising a union to destroy his own company?

How would Iraq go about helping Iran invade it?

What would be the communist alternative then? :)

[ZeroNowhere]

How would a communist go about being a entrepreneur or tradesman then? :DThe same way that they go about buying and selling things, I would imagine. As people, not as communists.

[Forward Union]

What would be the communist alternative then? :)

To what? Starting a business? It's impossible for 99% of the working class to start a business, I dare say that those who can, probably do. There's no lifestyle alternative to reality in the way you are suggesting. Communism is an ideology in the self-interest of those who have no access to the means of production.

Communists advocate the overthrow of businesses by the workers in them, they would then be managed collectively by a federation of Workers Councils. Production would be based on material need rather than 'supply and demand'.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Lately I've been thinking about moving to Cuba or Colombia through immigration in order to build a new life for myself.

I've been thinking about opening up a couple of businesses in both countries not to mention investing in some trade exchanges however I think of myself as a principled communist in that I believe if I was to do all of this that there most definately should be a fair distribution for all the workers and people involved in starting up a business.

This whole thing has got me thinking, what would the business ethics and virtues of a communist look like?

So I've decided to create this thread devoted to answering the simple yet complex question, what would the business ethics and virtues of a communist look like?

There aren't any communist business ethics IMO. I'd say if this is your real situation and you are in a position to start some small businesses and that's what you want to do, go for it. Just knowing what it is like to be a worker will probably automatically give you a little more empathy for workplace conditions, you might even want to set up a worker co-op, but under capitalism even a friendly boss at a small business or workers in a worker-run job are still exploiting labor - even when it's their own. So you could run a place in a way that's easier and better and being a small business with a good niche might help you do that, but it won't be a "communist" business because capitalist relations remain intact even if you organize an individual workplace in either a kinder or more democratic manner.

But someone can be a petty bourgeois professional or small business owner and still be a good communist if they are organizing and fighting among the working class for working class self-emancipation. If I won the lotto, I'd totally want to be a petty-bourgeois fuck who owns and works at a small coffee shop or something (if I won a lot and didn't have to worry about competing to survive that is). :lol:

[Tim Cornelis]

A communist being an entrepreneur is like a black KKK member.

It sounds like you confuse communism with state-capitalism.

[ZeroNowhere]

A communist being an entrepreneur is like a black KKK member.
No, it isn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Engels).

I suppose that you could be making a valid point, though, insofar as an 'entrepreuner according to communist principles' does sound like a product of state capitalist views.

[Tim Cornelis]

An entrepreneur is another word for capitalist. If you call yourself a communist yet you are a capitalist, how is that reconcilable?

[Mr. Cervantes]

Is there not any trade market model for communism? I created this thread on the basis of communist principles guiding business.

[Tim Cornelis]

I'm not sure what you're asking Nicolas, whether you are asking for a theoretical market model of communism or that you're asking for how 'communist enterprises' should work within the capitalist system?

In any case they are not reconcilable.

Communism is necessarily marketless and moneyless. Of course, there is "market socialism", but it is not communist.

The answer to the other question is that there can be no "communist enterprise" within capitalism as communism implies the absence of remuneration, yet remuneration is necessary within the capitalist system. But there are worker cooperatives, they are based on socialist principles (though they may abandon these because they operate within the capitalist market system) but they are not communist either.

[Mr. Cervantes]

I'm not sure what you're asking Nicolas, whether you are asking for a theoretical market model of communism or that you're asking for how 'communist enterprises' should work within the capitalist system?

In any case they are not reconcilable.

Communism is necessarily marketless and moneyless. Of course, there is "market socialism", but it is not communist.

The answer to the other question is that there can be no "communist enterprise" within capitalism as communism implies the absence of remuneration, yet remuneration is necessary within the capitalist system. But there are worker cooperatives, they are based on socialist principles (though they may abandon these because they operate within the capitalist market system) but they are not communist either.



whether you are asking for a theoretical market model of communism or that you're asking for how 'communist enterprises' should work within the capitalist system?

That's what I was looking for.


But there are worker cooperatives, they are based on socialist principles (though they may abandon these because they operate within the capitalist market system) but they are not communist either.

I suppose that is all I can aspire towards.

[ZeroNowhere]

An entrepreneur is another word for capitalist. If you call yourself a communist yet you are a capitalist, how is that reconcilable?Because communism is not a set of ethical lifestyle principles for living under capitalism.


Is there not any trade market model for communism? I created this thread on the basis of communist principles guiding business.Communism involves the abolition of markets and businesses, so no, there aren't really any communist principles for business.

[Forward Union]

That's what I was looking for.



I suppose that is all I can aspire towards.

Communism is a political movement aiming at creating a stateless, classless society where the means of production are managed by workers councils, and where goods are distributed according to "from each according his ability to each according his need". All production will be used to fit human need, not 'actual demand' as in "The ability to pay for goods and services".This involves, as Zeronowhere said, the complete abolition of markets and businesses. So let me say this once. A communist business would be one which abolishes itself immediately - a business, is the complete antithesis of Communism. In fact, the question of how a Communist business would be run is exactly the same as asking how an Anarchist State would function, or how a Square Circle might look.

"Ethical" businesses, are still based on the principle of private ownership, and thus are Tyrannical in nature, there is no democratic control over the production capacity. It's goods, and perceived right of ownership are still enforced by threat of violence conducted by the state apparatus. Businesses are also forced by law to make a profit.

Here is what I don't understand though, if running a business is "all you can aspire to" then why are you interested in a political movement that seeks to negate your entire chosen life-path.

[Reznov]

Here's a question that might help bridge these two distant ideas, how were businesses set up and ran in the Eastern Bloc countries? Obviously they had local stores and such, how did they handle the products, manage the capital etc...?

Also, how is Cuba's current economic model doing? I am aware they have something unique with their businesses and the way they are run, but know nothing more.