"Somalia: 20 Years of Anarchy"

[Os Cangaceiros]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12278628

I think this raises some interesting questions about the role of the state in ensuring a stable business environment (and, in doing so, a steady stream of profits). It certainly sheds some light on the UN's seemingly futile efforts to set up a state that encompasses the region.

[Hivemind]

People should read the essay called Better Off Stateless. It's a great read on Somalia's existence before and after the "socialist" regime. People seem to think that the only thing that exists in Somalia is what they see on the news (ie: pirates), which is certainly not the case.

[Rafiq]

^^ Actually, it is.

You aren't going to convince me somalia isn't a shit hole, sorry.

[Hivemind]

I'm not saying it isn't a shithole, but compared to surrounding countries, and its history of a shitty state with a lot of inequality, life in Somalia under "anarchism" has been better than most dare say. It's still pretty bad, obviously, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's a shithole where you can check revleft anywhere w/ your iphone, though. :D;)

[Hivemind]

You aren't going to convince me somalia isn't a shit hole, sorry.

How bout you read about the history of Somalia starting right before the oppressive government, during, and after the overthrow. How could you even call what I said reactionary? Overthrowing a poor excuse of a government that shit on its people and allowing people to thrive under statelessness doesn't sound reactionary, and although it's not the flavour of anarchism that I would personally endorse, it's a good start. If you can even call it that. It's not stable, for sure, and it will most likely succumb to something bad unless organization among the people happens, so time will tell.

[a rebel]

organization? who needs it when you have WiFi?

[Tim Cornelis]

Why is someone with an anarchist symbol defending stateless gang war capitalism in Somalia?

I thought it was common place, at least within radical left circles, that Somalia is not and was not anarchist.

[bailey_187]

its mutualism

[Old Mole]

I really wonder about the Somali shilling after 1991 until the establishment of the UN-backed government, how was its existence maintained? Anyone know?

[the last donut of the night]

someone here, i think bcbm, described somalia as basically an example of the barbarism that the ICC always refers to. opinions?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I wish people would stop calling it anarchy. Its a capitalist shithole with warring factions trying to create a state. You have the Islamic fundamentalists that control a large part of the country, the UN trying to set up its parliament in Mogadishu and a shit load of other factions. There is no organization and there is a lot of capitalism, I can't remember any theoretical piece that would liken anarchy to Somalia's civil war and capitalism.

[Os Cangaceiros]

someone here, i think bcbm, described somalia as basically an example of the barbarism that the ICC always refers to. opinions?

I think that a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that a place like Somalia would be a capitalist's dream, i.e. no regulation or tax system, etc.

This isn't the case, though. Capitalists want and need a state. Capitalism not only survives under regulation, it thrives. The reforms of the "progressive era" in the USA were actually pushed foward by business as a means of consolidating power! So I think that the idea that somehow Somalia is capitalism taken to it's farthest extreme is very much a wrong one. Somalia (and other nations, both in Africa, such as Madagascar, and out of Africa, such as Peru) are the end result of a fruitless socialist Bonapartism. It really says something about Siad Barre's regime that people even make the argument that Somalia post-civil war is better off than it was during the final years of his reign.

Somalia isn't the worst place in Africa, though, certainly not worse than, say, the Congo or Chad. Of course it has nothing to do with anarchism, and there are defacto regions of control that are in effect mini-states. The UN's and the AU's policies in Somalia have been absolutely disasterous.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I've posted this article before about Somalia a few years back, from Nat Geo. It's pretty good. People live in ruins in Mogadishu while people enjoy infrastructure and go out to marketplaces in Somaliland.

Shattered Somalia (http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/09/somalia/draper-text/1)

[bcbm]

someone here, i think bcbm, described somalia as basically an example of the barbarism that the ICC always refers to. opinions?

nah wasn't me

[Aspiring Humanist]

I hardly think a country plagued by perpetually warring theocratic warlords qualifies as anarchist

[Stalin was right]

I'm not saying it isn't a shithole, but compared to surrounding countries, and its history of a shitty state with a lot of inequality, life in Somalia under "anarchism" has been better than most dare say. It's still pretty bad, obviously, but it's a step in the right direction.

You bring up a good point, there is a leftist group called the mises organization that goes over all the benefits that Somalia has as a result of not being oppressed with a government that guarantees food, jobs, shelter, and a quality standard of living. somalia is so much better now that european and asian multinationals are free to dump tons of toxic waste off of their coast

mises dot org/daily/2066

[danyboy27]

the title should be ''20 year without a stable governement''

Catalogna was an anarchist society and had a functionnal governement.

Somalia, does not.

[Blackburn]

You guys should enjoy this then.
It was shown to me on Facebook the other day.

(EDIT: Okay can't show links yet)
Search Youtube for: PSA for Teabaggers