Menial Labor And Slavery

[Mr. Cervantes]

Couldn't we as a whole define menial wage labor as a form of capitalist slavery?

What are other people's thoughts on this issue?

I don't think slavery was abolished. I think human slavery has evolved where within that evolution it has transformed into the menial labor working class.

[Mr. Cervantes]

Any thoughts on this?

[Mr. Cervantes]

So what is the difference between slaves of our past and that of the modern menial laborer?

Is the only difference the payment of a low wage to subsist on?

[AnonymousOne]

So what is the difference between slaves of our past and that of the modern menial laborer?

Is the only difference the payment of a low wage to subsist on?

No.

The major difference is the fact that under slavery, you were someone else's property. They could rape you, beat you, kill you, starve you, humiliate you, etc. because you belonged to them. You were property.

Now of course, this doesn't mean Capitalism is good, it's not. It's very bad and it's probably the biggest threat to long-term human survival I can think of. I hate my job just as much as anybody, but I am still not treated like a slave.

But Capitalism is still not as bad as Feudalism or slavery, Marx viewed Capitalism as a progressive step away from Feudalism.

[Mr. Cervantes]

No.

The major difference is the fact that under slavery, you were someone else's property. They could rape you, beat you, kill you, starve you, humiliate you, etc. because you belonged to them. You were property.

Now of course, this doesn't mean Capitalism is good, it's not. It's very bad and it's probably the biggest threat to long-term human survival I can think of. I hate my job just as much as anybody, but I am still not treated like a slave.

But Capitalism is still not as bad as Feudalism or slavery, Marx viewed Capitalism as a progressive step away from Feudalism.

Aren't you in a way beholden to society as a sort of public thrall as a menial laborer?

Your entire subsistence as a menial laborer is very dependent on society's allowance for you to exist minimally.

In a way I kinda look at the life of a menial laborer as one being the property of society.

As a menial laborer you get no say in anything when it concerns collective society around you. You literally have no voice or influence and that to me is very slave like.

I don't believe the payment of a minimum wages is enough to make the distinction between slave and non slave. Minimum wages is a form of control between the masters and the slaves when it concerns a top down capitalistic society.

Even collecting unemployment as a menial laborer one becomes beholden to the state to which ironically is called welfare.

There is little to no independence living the life of a menial laborer.

[AnonymousOne]

Aren't you in a way beholden to society as a sort of public thrall as a menial laborer?

Your entire subsistence as a menial laborer is very dependent on society's allowance for you to exist minimally.

In a way I kinda look at the life of a menial laborer as one being the property of society.

As a menial laborer you get no say in anything when it concerns collective society around you. You literally have no voice or influence and that to me is very slave like.

I don't believe the payment of a minimum wages is enough to make the distinction between slave and non slave. Minimum wages is a form of control between the masters and the slaves when it concerns a top down capitalistic society.

Even collecting unemployment as a menial laborer one becomes beholden to the state to which ironically is called welfare.

There is little to no independence living the life of a menial laborer.

Wait, wait. Let's be clear about our terms here.

What does it mean to say that I am the property of society? How do we determine that? At what point is someone not the property of society?

I mean fuck, are CEO's slaves because they rely on society hiring them to run companies?

Even if we accept on face, even though I don't, your assertion that laborers are somehow the property of society (whatever that means) we still have protections for those laborers. I can't go rape a factory worker, I can't go kill a factory worker, I can't go beat a factory worker etc. They have protections which slaves did not have.

The biggest problem I have with this analogy is that it ends up white-washing slavery. Slavery was much, much more evil than Capitalism is or ever could be.

I also never said payment of a minimum wage is a big enough of a distinction. The distinction is the fact that the laborer isn't the property of another person and that unlike a slave the menial laborer has legal protections that slaves could never have had access too.

[Jimmie Higgins]

So what is the difference between slaves of our past and that of the modern menial laborer?

Is the only difference the payment of a low wage to subsist on?

In Marxist terms, the difference between chattel-slavery and wage-slavery is the manner in which exploitation is accomplished. In slavery, exploitation is direct, there is no trade in exchange for the labor; the salve owner only needs to make sure that the slaves have the basic necessities to live, that's his labor cost. In capitalism, wage-workers are exploited by producing more value than what they are actually paid for. It is a much more dynamic and hidden form of exploitation than slavery or serfdom and in some ways that makes it much harder to fight because the exploitation is indirect.