FARC.....

[commieboy]

I realize it may be the whole drug issue, then the U$ would have an excuse to fight cuba in the war against drugs....but if cuba backed FARC....would they really need the drugs?

Or would selling coke get more and better things than Cuba can provide?

[Red Flag]

I don't believe Cuba is any position to aid them right now, and I'm sure cuba couldn't give enough support to end their reliance on Drug Money. Also I believe cuba currently still has troops abroad in Africa, although I may be wrong.

[El Commandante]

With the fall of the Soviet Union Cuba they lost 80% of its market for almost all of its goods - sugar cane, agricultural machinery, chemicals. This has hit the economy hard and meant to radical economic changes - mainly a change to tourism to try to inject foreign currency which means that they have very little money to spare.

Also in this present climate I don't believe that Castro would want to enrage Bush - it wouldn't be 'wise' considering some of America's recent actions.

[commieboy]

I'm starting to like FARC...but the whole Cocaine thing and kidnapping really throws me off......they chose the right business to make money, but not to make allies.

But I heard they take good care of Kidnapped people, and let most of them go even if the ransoms are not paid.

but again, its the drugs that deteer me

[Red Flag]

hey don't feel too bad, if there wasn't a demand for the drugs they wouldn't even be able to sell them.. they're just haversting the earning potential of a shrub that grows naturally throughout colombia.. I just seen a special last nice on the history channel about 3 crop duster sub contractors that FARC is currently holding prisoner, and they are keeping them in great condition.. they let them video tape LOOONG messages for their family's and shit... But as long as the U$ is backing the Colombian State and that Right Wing Paramilitary Organization thats workin with the state (forget their name), I'm afriad FARC doesn't have much of a chance.

[dopediana]

but again, its the drugs that deteer me

would drugs be a problem if there weren't such a huge demand for them? of course not. the peasants and guerrillas respond to the global market. and it's revolution kid. i remember a while ago you posted a thread about whether we were "ready" for a revolution, by which you meant did we have GUNS....

the US is oppressing colombians. as much of an antiwar person as i am, the armed guerrilla resistance is somewhat justifiable. they're on the population's side. it's hard though, because they end up killing the people they're aiming to protect. and the people they're protecting end up getting killed for supporting them. guerrillas are putting people before profits but in order to fund their movement they have to get the money somehow and the drugs are an easy and viable option.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Cuba provides some medical care and political consultation
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/farc.htm

[commieboy]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 11 2003, 02:58 AM
hey don't feel too bad, if there wasn't a demand for the drugs they wouldn't even be able to sell them.. they're just haversting the earning potential of a shrub that grows naturally throughout colombia.. I just seen a special last nice on the history channel about 3 crop duster sub contractors that FARC is currently holding prisoner, and they are keeping them in great condition.. they let them video tape LOOONG messages for their family's and shit... But as long as the U$ is backing the Colombian State and that Right Wing Paramilitary Organization thats workin with the state (forget their name), I'm afriad FARC doesn't have much of a chance.
That's the program that triggered my sudden interest, and i was looking at what FARC had gunwise, and they weren't doing bad at all. They were carrying the same weapons as the US special Forces, and ISrealis....but the timeless AK-47 was there too.....

But, what about the "Human Toll" from these drugs?
What about the families whos' entire income was spent on the coke so daddy could get a buzz? Aren't they being counter productive?

[Invader Zim]

Ohh yes a real workers movment, they only sell drugs to the west to kill and harm the working classes children in the west. Great guys.

[Ian]

http://usembassy.state.gov/bogota/wwwjco99.jpg

Although there is some drugs in the FARC controlled areas (the orange outline), compare that to the rest of it. FARC are not narco-terrorists.

Once again Enigma is misinformed.

Keep in mind that is a US gov't source.

[Saint-Just]

The Cubans have supplied FARC with trained geurrilla fighters. The DPRK has given FARC arms too. FARC ae very strong, they have a lot of funding, but their enemy is tough particularly with U.S. backing.

I do not imagine FARC care much that the degenerate American government and its society has such a drug problem, since in their own country they face far bigger problems that are as important as solving the American drug problem. Ultimately the American working classes will benefit more by the victory of the world socialist movement than they will from solving their drug affliction.

[Invader Zim]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/199...8-colombia1.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/1999/08/990818-colombia1.htm)

http://www.derechos.net/paulwolf/colombia/hemisphr.htm

http://www.tni.org/drugs/pubs/farc.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1746777.stm

http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/farc.cfm

http://www.janes.com/security/internationa...10116_1_n.shtml (http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jtsm/jtsm010116_1_n.shtml)

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/special...files/farc.html (http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/specials/0008/organization.profiles/farc.html)

http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/orgdet.cfm?orgid=37

http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ar/colomb...ia/indict18.htm (http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ar/colombia/indict18.htm)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland...,615951,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,615951,00.html)

http://www.theantidrug.com/drugs_terror/events.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../13/wfarc13.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/13/wfarc13.xml)

Just because FARC does not necessarily grow that muck cocaine, does not mean they dont tax it and traffic it, to the west.

Sorry mate, but its not me who's uninformed, did you know that it has been proved that members of splinter groups from the IRA have been found buying drugs from FARC. Kind of proves you wrong.

Keep in mind that several of my sources are US gov source but most are not.

[dopediana]

so, enigma, what's your stance on the FARC and their cause? are you pro or anti free colombia? well, perhaps that wasn't the best way to say it, "free" colombia, but you can't honestly think that a US govt-backed stolen election in colombia is a step towards democracy. but if you want a bit more info on how the paras truly operate and how the guerrillas are doing, send a pm to GuardiaBolivariano.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by the [email protected] 11 2003, 03:23 PM
so, enigma, what's your stance on the FARC and their cause? are you pro or anti free colombia? well, perhaps that wasn't the best way to say it, "free" colombia, but you can't honestly think that a US govt-backed stolen election in colombia is a step towards democracy. but if you want a bit more info on how the paras truly operate and how the guerrillas are doing, send a pm to GuardiaBolivariano.
I agree with their motives, of freeing Columbia from a corrupt US backed government, not with their practice of selling filthly shit to western countries where it kills or ruins the lives of thousands of people.

Im not a fan of hard drugs, or its international dealers.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by Enigma+Oct 11 2003, 02:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Enigma @ Oct 11 2003, 02:27 PM)
the [email protected] 11 2003, 03:23 PM
so, enigma, what&#39;s your stance on the FARC and their cause? are you pro or anti free colombia? well, perhaps that wasn&#39;t the best way to say it, "free" colombia, but you can&#39;t honestly think that a US govt-backed stolen election in colombia is a step towards democracy. but if you want a bit more info on how the paras truly operate and how the guerrillas are doing, send a pm to GuardiaBolivariano.
I agree with their motives, of freeing Columbia from a corrupt US backed government, not with their practice of selling filthly shit to western countries where it kills or ruins the lives of thousands of people.

Im not a fan of hard drugs, or its international dealers. [/b]
i&#39;m anti drugs as well but that&#39;s where they get their funding. do you have any other suggestions for different sources of money? and concerning the peasants, they harvest coca because it&#39;s what sells. colombia is part of the global economy just like every other country on the planet and they&#39;re just trying to respond to the market, get along, and make a living.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by the amaryllis+Oct 11 2003, 03:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the amaryllis @ Oct 11 2003, 03:53 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 02:27 PM

the [email protected] 11 2003, 03:23 PM
so, enigma, what&#39;s your stance on the FARC and their cause? are you pro or anti free colombia? well, perhaps that wasn&#39;t the best way to say it, "free" colombia, but you can&#39;t honestly think that a US govt-backed stolen election in colombia is a step towards democracy. but if you want a bit more info on how the paras truly operate and how the guerrillas are doing, send a pm to GuardiaBolivariano.
I agree with their motives, of freeing Columbia from a corrupt US backed government, not with their practice of selling filthly shit to western countries where it kills or ruins the lives of thousands of people.

Im not a fan of hard drugs, or its international dealers.
i&#39;m anti drugs as well but that&#39;s where they get their funding. do you have any other suggestions for different sources of money? and concerning the peasants, they harvest coca because it&#39;s what sells. colombia is part of the global economy just like every other country on the planet and they&#39;re just trying to respond to the market, get along, and make a living. [/b]
No I dont have an answer, and I doubt that their even is an answer.

[commieboy]

you know what.....go FARC&#33;&#33;&#33;

They&#39;re just taking advantage of a capitalist world and fucking up the U&#036;....

But then there&#39;s the other side of me thinking about the people killed because of the coke FARC made......not that they killed them, but after the drugs change hands a few times, when a deal goes sour and someone ends up getting shot in the crossfire, or in the way of a drive by.....It can indirectly kill people....

But again i&#39;m thinking....would people really hate them as much if they were growing tobacco?

This is a very complex subject

[Palmares]

I don&#39;t mean to sound stupid, but why does everyone call them FARC, when they are the FARC-EP? Maybe it is just a shortened version, but I get pissed off at people who laugh at it (FARC = FUCK).

Also, what does FARC-EP mean?

Personally, I like the FARC-EP. Sure they deal with drugs and shit, but they do what their circumstance force them to do. It is kinda like Cuba. Cuba isn&#39;t in the greatest shape, but it does what it can in its circumstances. People will say Cuba having such tough laws, like extreme cencorship or whatever is against what we stand for (kinda like what the FARC-EP are doing). But either way, we stick with Cuba (for the most part).

So I stick with the FARC-EP too. :wub:

[Y2A]

Please both sides are wrong on the FARC-EP and Paramilitary war. Imagine 39yrs of bloodshed for what? FARC refuses any peace talks or ceasefires. FARC uses child soliders. FARC kidnaps tourists and uses torture methods. And the AUC and other paramilitaries do the same exact thing while making their money off of drugs aswell and silenceing trade unionist and protesters. Both sides are wrong and until people wake up and realize that the war is pointless, only then will Columbia have peace.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by Enigma+Oct 11 2003, 03:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Enigma @ Oct 11 2003, 03:04 PM)
Originally posted by the [email protected] 11 2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 02:27 PM

the [email protected] 11 2003, 03:23 PM
so, enigma, what&#39;s your stance on the FARC and their cause? are you pro or anti free colombia? well, perhaps that wasn&#39;t the best way to say it, "free" colombia, but you can&#39;t honestly think that a US govt-backed stolen election in colombia is a step towards democracy. but if you want a bit more info on how the paras truly operate and how the guerrillas are doing, send a pm to GuardiaBolivariano.
I agree with their motives, of freeing Columbia from a corrupt US backed government, not with their practice of selling filthly shit to western countries where it kills or ruins the lives of thousands of people.

Im not a fan of hard drugs, or its international dealers.
i&#39;m anti drugs as well but that&#39;s where they get their funding. do you have any other suggestions for different sources of money? and concerning the peasants, they harvest coca because it&#39;s what sells. colombia is part of the global economy just like every other country on the planet and they&#39;re just trying to respond to the market, get along, and make a living.
No I dont have an answer, and I doubt that their even is an answer. [/b]
my point exactly. therefore, you have to choose between monumental oppression in S. america and kids on the street with their narcs in big cities. and they&#39;re both being fucked. you have to pick who is being fucked worse.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2003, 11:44 PM
Also, what does FARC-EP mean?


Fuerzas armadas revolucionarias de colombia ejercito de pueblo.

That&#39;s what it means or in english Armed Revolutionary Forces of Columbia-Peoples Army.

[praxis1966]

From all I can tell, both FARC-EP and the AUC are involved in drug traficking.

The AUC used to be a paramilitary force that was in the employ of Pablo Escobar. Escobar screwed up, however. After his arrest he was sent to that self built "prison" (I use quotes because it was more like a mansion and he was under no obligation to stay there) he executed to of his own lieutenants due to suspicion of a mole. One of them happened to be the cousin of the AUC&#39;s founder. Los Pepes was subsequently formed, which made its living off of the 700 man Investigation Block formed by the Columbian government (who in turn had every arm of U&#036; intelligence at its disposal). Everyone in the know, including the government head of the Columbian side of the investigation, acknowledges that without the help of the AUC Escobar never would have been cought.

From what I understand, FARC-EP was and is an arm of the Cali cartel. The struggle down there has devolved from a liberation movement into a coca farm turf war. It&#39;s all a mixed up, muddled up, fucked up mess.

Finally, I have two questions. First, how can you even rationalize kidnapping as a valid tactic for funding a revolution? Second, why is it OK for innocent people in the U&#036; to be poisoned by this garbage? Their only crimes were being a little misguided and being born in a shithole country. Now, because a bunch of psuedo-revolutionaries in South America need money to kill people, I gotta watch my friends go down the tubes in all ways imaginable. Look, I really don&#39;t care if they want to compromise their own ethics, just don&#39;t expect me to condone it. Fuck that.

[Saint-Just]

Finally, I have two questions. First, how can you even rationalize kidnapping as a valid tactic for funding a revolution? Second, why is it OK for innocent people in the U&#036; to be poisoned by this garbage? Their only crimes were being a little misguided and being born in a shithole country. Now, because a bunch of psuedo-revolutionaries in South America need money to kill people, I gotta watch my friends go down the tubes in all ways imaginable. Look, I really don&#39;t care if they want to compromise their own ethics, just don&#39;t expect me to condone it. Fuck that.

You can rationalise kidnapping by the fact that the end result of the revolution will be so positive that it will outweigh the suffering caused by kidnapping people. The same with drugs. In addition, although it is terrible to have a drug problem in American society, again, the interests if the anti-imperialist movement and the national liberation of Colombia are being treated as more important. It is and unfortunate situation but we must make rational and realistic choices. American society will continue to suffer from the affects of severe drug abuse whether the Colombians sell drugs or not. In addition, if the revolutionaries did not sell drugs to pepertuate their movement then their movement would be lost and drugs would still be sold under the occupation of a pro-imperialist government in Colombia.

[Severian]

The other problem with drugs as a means of financing a revolution is that it corrupts the revolutionaries. It really is a question now whether the FARC has anything to do with any political ideal or if it&#39;s more of a business.

On the original question....since the 1960s, Cuba&#39;s become a bit more selective about which guerilla movements they aid. As a result of their experiences with failed guerilla movements. Simply picking up the guns and heading for the jungle doesn&#39;t guarantee a revolutionary victory.

Right now, IMO, the most important revolutionary developments in Latin America are things like the Movement of the Landless in Brazil, the factory occupations in Argentina, the massive workers&#39; actions in Venezuela, the near-uprising in Ecuador a few years back that brought down a president and established "Asembleas Populares" in a number of cities...not the FARC. Cuba seems to be orienting more to some of the other developments...and I think they&#39;re correct to do so.

[BRIN]

I think the FARC are great, i also think that thier narcotic dealing is exceptable because of the circumstances being that they are exploited by the U&#036; so why can&#39;t they exploit the dirty yanks with cocain?

Anyway whats so bad about drugs in america? it kills the slimey bastards who sell it and make the cappitalist fucks who use it go braindead (i.e Dubya) so it&#39;s morally allright because causing killing and exploitation in a utter evil society (both people and goverment)and is a good step in destroying the society thus giving the chance for new society to emerge from the ashes.

The kiddnapping of tourists now sound okay because a comrade pointed out that they let free most of hostages even if the ransome hasn&#39;t been met.Which makes the kiddnapping ok

As for these wild accusations accusing the FARC of forcing kid in the armed forces i seriosly doubt it because it undermines the social justices FARC is trying to create.Even if it is true (which i doubt) at least it&#39;s giving the kids something great worth fighting for.

GO FARC&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Bornagainlefty]

Trouble is that drugs by their nature target the very people who are most likely to benefit from a "revolution". Given the immense and well reported CIA involvement in drug trafficking during the last few decades, it is not too outrageous to believe that drugs were made freely available to the poor areas precisely as a tool to STOP revolutionary behaviour. Lets face it, if you can get half the potential activists interested in nothing more than where they can get the money for their next fix, you have half won the battle.

In that way the FARC-EP are putting the poor of their own country before the poor of the US, which is wrong. However, when the corrupt and murderous govnt of Colombia is being propped up militarily by the US govnt, then what other choice do the revolutionaries have besides cashing in on drugs and kidnapping (the latter is excusable if it is rich landowners types who are the victims, but sadly that is not always the case).

I have read that the revolutionaries own a number of businesses in Bogota and other cities which also help raise funds. Apparently there are a large number of revolutionaries in the capital with suitcases full of arms waiting for the order to distribute the weapons and begin the revolution. I would not expect it to happen too soon though, Uribe seems to be reasonably popular at the moment, and with the FARC-EP blowing things up seemingly indiscriminately, well, they need some serious PR work to get the people behind them in the cities.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I am all for FARC, I regardless of drugs and child soldiers, I feel that Columbian capitalism, and capitalism everywhere must be over thrown, by ANY MEANS NECESSARY. It would be great if the didn&#39;t have to, but unless we are going to haul our asses over there volunteer go help fight and give our money to the international proletarian cause (something I might consider doing), then we have no right to complain at their methods of handling this war. If I recall, Che Guevara himself was more than happy to go and fight for Communists movements throughout the world, regardless of what country they were in, which is something that I think more Communists today should start doing. We should all get rid of all remnants of conservative bourgoise nationalism and strive for a united communist world. At the present state, Communists movements will have a very hard time if they must rely totally on national Communists within that nation, so I feel it is our duty as Communists to go fight for the revolution, where ever it may be. If more Communists took this course of action, than fighters from around the world could be brought in to provide reinforcements for the guerrilla forces there, thus overwhelming the nationalist Columbian forces. BTW I feel that all Communist countries should unite as they are liberated. There is no need to maintain the borders maintained for years by bourgoise forces.

[lifetrnal]

Enigma,

I&#39;m not sure how old this post is, or if you&#39;ll get it... but, did you take a look at some of the people you just put links up for? Do you really trust corporate media to give you an acurate accounting of where drugs are comming from in Columbia, especiallly since we&#39;re talking about an armed Marxist group? Also I noticed you cited Janes... something that owes its existance to the American military industrial complex. In addition, I gotta say, that prohibition of drugs is not suitable to the future free society. They must be removed as tool of oppression, but to ban them is folly.