Iran bans men from wearing necklaces

[Queercommie Girl]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/14/necklace-ban-men-tehran-police

Necklace ban for men as Tehran's 'moral police' enforce dress code

More than 70,000 trained forces sent out to streets as part of effort to combat 'western cultural invasion'


Iranian men have been banned from wearing necklaces in the latest crackdown by the Islamic regime on "un-Islamic" clothing and haircuts.
Thousands of special forces have been deployed in Tehran's streets, participating in the regime's "moral security plan" in which loose-fitting headscarves, tight overcoats and shortened trousers that expose skin will not be tolerated for women, while men are warned against glamorous hairstyles and wearing a necklace.


The new plan comes shortly after the Iranian parliament proposed a bill to criminalise dog ownership, on the grounds that it "poses a cultural problem, a blind imitation of the vulgar culture of the west".


The Irna state news agency said the trend was aimed at combating "the western cultural invasion" with help from more than 70,000 trained forces, known as "moral police", who are sent out to the streets in the capital and other cities.


With the summer heat sweeping across the country, many people, especially the young, push the boundaries and run the risk of being fined, or even arrested, for wearing "bad hijab" clothing.


Women in particular are under more pressure because of the restriction on them to cover themselves from head to toe. Men are allowed to wear short-sleeved shirts, but not shorts.


"The enforcement of the moral security plan was requested by the nation and it will be continued until people's concerns are properly addressed," said Ahmadreza Radan, the deputy commander of the Iranian police.


Iran (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iran)'s moral police usually function under a body whose head is appointed directly by the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. In a live television programme last year, president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that he did not approve of the crackdown.


Speaking by phone, a Tehran resident, who asked to remain anonymous, said: "It's not only about clamping down on clothing, but they are spreading panic and fear by sending out this much of police into the streets under the name of this plan, to control the society. It's unbelievable to see a regime that is not only concerned about its own survival but it goes into your personal life and interferes in that."


Under Islamic customs, dogs are deemed to be "unclean". Iranians, in general, avoid keeping them at home, but still a minority, especially in north Tehran's upper-class districts, enjoy keeping pets. Last year Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi, a prominent hardline cleric, issued a fatwa against keeping dogs and said the trend must stop.


Last summer authorities in Tehran also released a list of approved hairstyles in an attempt to offer Islamic substitutes to "decadent" western cuts, such as the ponytail and the mullet.

[Queercommie Girl]

This isn't just reactionary, but it's frankly reactionary in a hilarious way. I mean, don't the mullahs have anything fucking better to do with their time? :rolleyes: What a fucking waste of productive forces, efforts and time.

This is why I say Iran today is even worse than China. Both countries are heavily oppressive politically and economically, but at least in China there is much more cultural freedom. Oppressive as China is today, at least it is still a secular country, rather than a theocracy. In China as long as you are not against the government or market capitalism, you can believe and wear whatever you like.

[Volcanicity]

The new plan comes shortly after the Iranian parliament proposed a bill to criminalise dog ownership, on the grounds that it "poses a cultural problem, a blind imitation of the vulgar culture of the west".
As opposed to the women who are just treated like dog's.

[Princess Luna]

While i don't support U.S. imperialism against Iran (be it a full invasion, or destroying their nuclear power plants) i really hope the people of Iran rise up and hang those assholes who rule them.

[Lanky Wanker]

To be honest, nothing like this really surprises me any more.

[synthesis]

Islamic substitutes to "decadent" western cuts, such as the ponytail and the mullet.

:lol: Someone tell Billy Ray Cyrus to get on the case.

[Revy]

http://www.topnews.in/files/ayatollah_ali_khamenei.jpeg

This fucker needs two microphones to deal with the amount of nonsense and oppressive bullshit he spews.

For those who don't know, this is the real ruler of Iran. The Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran.

[Hebrew Hammer]

"Blah blah blah decadent Western ways."

I wish the reasoning for the ban wasn't as silly as the above. Ridiculous.

[the last donut of the night]

but what if i move to iran and want to keep it fresh?

[Princess Luna]

It bothers me that everyone is criticizing Iran for banning necklaces while in the thread about the burka ban in France most people seem to support it, which is only one of the many anti-Islam measures that have been taken since the 11th September.
Some don't want symbols that represent the West and get criticized, others ban symbols that represent the Middle East and they are applauded. Double standards I don't understand.
Iran has some very questionable policies but violations of basic human rights and freedoms are far from being exclusive to them. Many of the things we criticize about Iran also happen in many "democratic" countries, I don't know why people can't see that.
I am critical of Burkas because they do represent oppression of woman, however I (as well as most other people on this site who are critical of them) think in the end a woman should be allowed to dress anyway they choose. Men wearing necklaces has NO connection to any oppressive history, and just like Burkas people have the right to wear any clothes (or, even in my opinion none at all) they want to.

[Zealot]

This is obviously a ridiculous law but I think Nismine raises a good point about the double standards people are going to have on this.


I am critical of Burkas because they do represent oppression of woman, however I (as well as most other people on this site who are critical of them) think in the end a woman should be allowed to dress anyway they choose. Men wearing necklaces has NO connection to any oppressive history, and just like Burkas people have the right to wear any clothes (or, even in my opinion none at all) they want to.

No muslim woman I ever met felt oppressed wearing a burka, in fact, they think the exact same about women in the west since they believe women are forced to wear less clothes.

[Sir Comradical]

They're a good laugh these mullahs. What about a silver necklace with a zulfiqar on it? Surely they wouldn't ban the sword of Imam Ali?

[Hiero]

I am critical of Burkas because they do represent oppression of woman, however I (as well as most other people on this site who are critical of them) think in the end a woman should be allowed to dress anyway they choose. Men wearing necklaces has NO connection to any oppressive history, and just like Burkas people have the right to wear any clothes (or, even in my opinion none at all) they want to.

Well that is the thing about symbols, it is up to the position and perspective to make sense of symbols. Mullahs in Iran see in the necklace Western culture, which they see an oppressive history (which is much apart of the Western history oppression of non-Europeans). They see cultural imperialism.

When I see the Burka I see irrelevance.

Just the way some women see the high heel as oppressive in the sense women are dominanted within western culture to take on the sexual icon and then undertake ainfull fasions and then some one say the heel as liberating. Whatever the case it would be wrong to ban the wearing of the high heel.

So that is where the hypocrisy arises. In regards to burkas in the West and necklaces in the East niether should be banned. Rather debate about real matters should take place, like expliotation and descrimination of migrants should be taken up in the west, and in the East debate about real imperialism should be the concern. That is why these symbols are irrelevant.

[thefinalmarch]

No muslim woman I ever met felt oppressed wearing a burka, in fact, they think the exact same about women in the west since they believe women are forced to wear less clothes.
Sexual oppression is not simply about subjective experiences. You do not have to "feel" oppressed to actually be oppressed. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of workers you know do not "feel" oppressed, but that doesn't negate the existence of their exploitation and wage slavery, does it?

[Zealot]

Sexual oppression is not simply about subjective experiences. You do not have to "feel" oppressed to actually be oppressed. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of workers you know do not "feel" oppressed, but that doesn't negate the existence of their exploitation and wage slavery, does it?
As far as I am concerned, women can decide for themselves. They don't need men to tell them what is or is not oppressive. If they want to wear it let them, if they don't fine. But forcing someone to wear or not wear something is, I think, just as bad.

[Devrim]

No muslim woman I ever met felt oppressed wearing a burka, in fact, they think the exact same about women in the west since they believe women are forced to wear less clothes.

Could you tell us how many women you know who live in countries that enforce an Islamic dress code?

Devrim

[yobbos1]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/14/necklace-ban-men-tehran-police






Last summer authorities in Tehran also released a list of approved hairstyles in an attempt to offer Islamic substitutes to "decadent" western cuts, such as the ponytail and the mullet.
Well if they are cracking down on mullets, I guess I'm okay with that.

[danyboy27]

its all about asserting their control over a population, and its verry reactionary

i wouldnt be surprised to see a shitload of leftist supporting khameni and saying he is a socialist if the shit hit the fan in iran tho.

[Zealot]

Could you tell us how many women you know who live in countries that enforce an Islamic dress code?

Devrim
I've lived in several Islamic countries and spoken to converts who have said the same thing. Admittedly, the countries I was living in did not enforce it but the majority of women still prefer to wear it.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

To play the devil's advocate....perhaps the women didn't feel oppressed by the Burka because they have been indoctrinated into believing that wearing one is freedom?

Wouldn't be the first time a oppressed segment of society believed themselves free when really oppressed.

Personally I don't have a problem with Burkas...I think you should be able to wear what you want so as long as you have to freedom to so so.I only get irate when people start forcing others.

[bailey_187]

why isit whenevr theres a thread criticising something a country that opposes the US of the stage of world politics we get some smartass dickhead come in and say "oh well u know similar things happen in this country blahdiblah" as if that makes it any better? i dont get it, so what? its not like france is upheld as a model country on revleft ffs

[Dr Mindbender]

Under sharia law men are not allowed to wear authentic gold either.

[fionntan]

Under sharia law men are not allowed to wear authentic gold either.


Can you were fake gold? If so the people were i live would be grand..lol

[Rafiq]

I want to fucking rage.

A MORAL POLICE?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

I FEEL LIKE BURNING STUFF


http://freewallpaperz.info/wallpapers/full/17192394.jpg


^ AND THIS GUY AGREES WITH ME, BANNING DOGS? WTF!

[W1N5T0N]

Damn, i wonder how people put up with this insane bullshit...

EDIT: on the other hand, people put up with insane bullshit everywhere, and this is just a fine example for it.


I hereby call out the revleft "What the fuck is the Iranian government gonna do next" contest.

Winner gets a free...free...ach, nevermind. Do it for the lulz.

[Dr Mindbender]

Can you were fake gold? If so the people were i live would be grand..lol

Yep, the fake variety is fine. My ex girlfriend was from a muslim family, her brothers wore more chains than Mr T.

[W1N5T0N]

Yeah, about that authentic gold thing...How exactly are Sharia-abiding lawmakers/enforcers planning on checking that? "HEY YOU, SIR! Why dont you let my goldsmith detective colleague check that suspicious looking necklace there, sir, just a routine!"

[Klaatu]

I can't figure out how women can tolerate the opressive heat over there
(up to 50°C) and those black garmets that trap and absorb the heat...egads!

[Princess Luna]

Yeah, about that authentic gold thing...How exactly are Sharia-abiding lawmakers/enforcers planning on checking that? "HEY YOU, SIR! Why dont you let my goldsmith detective colleague check that suspicious looking necklace there, sir, just a routine!"
Most likely rather than go after individuals, they would target companies importing and stores selling Jewelry, as well as setup sting operations to catch people trying to buy real gold.

[Sir Comradical]

No muslim woman I ever met felt oppressed wearing a burka, in fact, they think the exact same about women in the west since they believe women are forced to wear less clothes.

The rapper Nelly once made a similar argument saying that the women who dance in his video clips aren't being degraded because they don't feel oppressed. Whether they "feel" oppressed is irrelevant, the point is that the burqa/niqaab/hijaab are still symbols of women's subjugation.

[Sir Comradical]

The two situations are hardly similar though, I don't see how muslim women who wear a burka are being exploited. They don't get paid for wearing it nor do they do it out of necessity.
To ensure these women's freedom to choose whether they want to wear a burka or not is one thing; the French government tells them they can't wear it - that is the exact opposite.
In your perspective the burka represents these women's unconscious subjugation, to these women these laws represent their subjugation to the French government.
Perhaps these women should have the right to self-determination.

I didn't say they were being exploited and I didn't say I supported the French government. Women should be free to wear a burqa but that doesn't change the fact that it is a symbol of women's subjugation.

[Devrim]

No muslim woman I ever met felt oppressed wearing a burka, in fact, they think the exact same about women in the west since they believe women are forced to wear less clothes.


Could you tell us how many women you know who live in countries that enforce an Islamic dress code?


I've lived in several Islamic countries and spoken to converts who have said the same thing. Admittedly, the countries I was living in did not enforce it but the majority of women still prefer to wear it.

So what you are saying is that the number of woman you have met who were legally forced to wear certain items of clothing is precisely zero. Well that is informative.

I have been to Iran (the first time was in 1986, the last six years ago) and I have never met a single woman who was happy about being legally obliged to wear a headscarf.

Now I know that this probably bears no relation to the opinion of the vast majority of women in Iran, and is deeply effected by the type of people I meet.

Nevertheless, compared to your in depth sample of exactly zero people, it looks like hard data.

Devrim

[bailey_187]

sorry exporism but ur table turning politics gets not ratings here

[Anarchrusty]

Some people here really should start to realise that what they are doing is imposing their western ideal worldview on races other than themselves.
If these people want to wear either necklaces or burqa's just let them. Why barge into their country and tell them what is right (from YOUR pov) when you have no conclusive proof that what you are claiming is fundamentally right? And what is? Thousands of people the world over don't think as you, but they don't expect YOU to behave as them, do they?
Take a moment for yourself and think about it, TRUELY think about it.

[Queercommie Girl]

It bothers me that everyone is criticizing Iran for banning necklaces while in the thread about the burka ban in France most people seem to support it, which is only one of the many anti-Islam measures that have been taken since the 11th September.
Some don't want symbols that represent the West and get criticized, others ban symbols that represent the Middle East and they are applauded. Double standards I don't understand.
Iran has some very questionable policies but violations of basic human rights and freedoms are far from being exclusive to them. Many of the things we criticize about Iran also happen in many "democratic" countries, I don't know why people can't see that.

Um. The two are not the same. Burkas are distinctively Islamic, but jewellery isn't distinctively Western.

Do you know anything about ancient Persian history? Ancient Persians (of the pre-Islamic era) were making elaborate metal jewellery when Europeans were still in the Dark Ages.

[Queercommie Girl]

Some people here really should start to realise that what they are doing is imposing their western ideal worldview on races other than themselves.
If these people want to wear either necklaces or burqa's just let them. Why barge into their country and tell them what is right (from YOUR pov) when you have no conclusive proof that what you are claiming is fundamentally right? And what is? Thousands of people the world over don't think as you, but they don't expect YOU to behave as them, do they?
Take a moment for yourself and think about it, TRUELY think about it.

Necklaces aren't "Western".

[Zealot]

So what you are saying is that the number of woman you have met who were legally forced to wear certain items of clothing is precisely zero. Well that is informative.

I have been to Iran (the first time was in 1986, the last six years ago) and I have never met a single woman who was happy about being legally obliged to wear a headscarf.

Now I know that this probably bears no relation to the opinion of the vast majority of women in Iran, and is deeply effected by the type of people I meet.

Nevertheless, compared to your in depth sample of exactly zero people, it looks like hard data.

Devrim
And I never claimed that women should be forced but rather have a free choice to wear it or not, I would oppose the enforcement of a burka as much as you would.