What Is

[Valdemar]

Southern Redemptionist...
One of members was restricted due "Southern Redemptionist"
I never, never, never in my life heard about such labl
Since I can't post that into learning (because of restriction) or anywhere else, and google search didn't give me any results, i was forced to ask you guys here.

What is "Southern Redemptionist" ?

Thanks in Advance for the Answer

[Broletariat]

I'm guessing rhetoric along the lines of "The south will rise again."

[hatzel]

It's about the American Civil War. That whole North vs. South thing, Union vs. Confederacy. The member in question tried to 'redeem' the South in that conflict. That is to say, he tried to brush over the fact that it was pretty much all just a conflict of the southern states trying to maintain the institution of slave-holding, and suggest that the Confederacy's intentions were justified. That's the...basic overview...

[Valdemar]

Rabbi K, Thanks for your quick response, i appreciate it :)
But in my humble opinion,
It is sad, how USA government wants to represent and it is representing USA civil war as something divine and from good intentions for Black People. They want to represent war as divine job and good hearted one, to free Black People from evil south who wants them to keep in slavery, where in fact whole story is more complex and not so shallow.

Of course, North Government won, and wrote history that serves their interest, and when i say North Government, i have in my mind North Capitalist.
Whole Civil War was in fact CAPITALIST INNER WAR FOR DOMINANCE, various Capitalist clashed over interest in Dominance, and that's what they are hiding from us, and want to represent war as War of Abolishment of Slavery.

Let me show my view, South was more or less agriculture based economy, highly depended of Slave labour, while north was more or less Industry based economy. So basically South had Slavery, and North had wage Slavery, South selles resources as Cotton and stuff to the North, and North supplied them with Industrial goods. But there is catch, South Capitalist would be hurt if Slavery would be contained or suppressed, and from that North Capitalist would prosper who have seen future in Wage Slavery, therefore begin-ed reforms to gradually abolish-destroy slavery in South. South capitalist saw their lose of power and profit, and monopoly south, and were naturally, accordance of their capitalist views, against that moves and seceded and civil work broke out...
That's my viewpoint of Civil War, it was Capitalist War for Profit, Dominance and Monopoly and not some kind of Divine, Good Hearted war against Slavery as current USA (which is always saving humanity and helping us out in troubled times, which has Divine duty from God to help us (sarcasm).) wants us to represent.

This post will cause again outrage at some members who are heavily influenced by western media in current capitalist society, who are living in USA, which is by some thinkers mostly indoctrinated society in world.

I don't support Slavery, North or South... In my opinion it was Capitalist War and nothing else. I just want to put end to glorification of Civil War as Liberation of Black People!

/* Dear Almighty Admin, if I offended you on personal level, and your opinion is that I'm indeed supporter of Slavery and Racism (like you were offended in my 2nd post and i got restricted due sexism) please forgive my ignorance, We live in capitalist society, which influences our life really a lot. */

[Blake's Baby]

Not at all. I think most of us know that the fact that the southern states wanted to enslave other human beings wasn't the sole cause of the war, and I'm fairly certain that Marx and Engels' support for the northern industrialists (or the Manchester cotton workers likewise) wasn't based on some idea of a 'divine crusade'. Certainly not on the repugnant humanitarian posturing of later US administrations.

Doesn't alter the fact that it was a good thing that the Union won though.

[Valdemar]

Doesn't alter the fact that it was a good thing that the Union won though.

True, yup...

[Jimmie Higgins]

It is sad, how USA government wants to represent and it is representing USA civil war as something divine and from good intentions for Black People. They want to represent war as divine job and good hearted one, to free Black People from evil south who wants them to keep in slavery, where in fact whole story is more complex and not so shallow.Actually I think there's more of a consensus among politicians and mainstream academics right now to downplay slavery as one of the main issues with the Civil War. You hear "states rights" and "defending the union" are the big answers now. I think they played-up the slavery motivation for the war in the 1970s and 1980s - in part for the right wing of the Republicans to gain some cover as the "Party of Lincoln and Emancipation" as they more openly began to more openly embrace divisive racist politics ("southern strategy" "war on crime" etc) and in part for both parties to respond to the strength of the civil rights movement and the effect it had on American consciousness. At any rate, of course modern rulers will try and spin anything to their advantage - the union killed John Brown but then sang his praises as a martyr during the civil war.

I support the civil war in that I think it was historically progressive in that it smashed the slave-system and allowed industrial capitalism to take hold... but the US government doesn't actually care about these things and only brings up the civil war to glorify itself, as you say. Still they also do this with WWII and while I think that the US waged that war not because they were anti-fascist but because they wanted to win the spoils at the end ... but that doesn't mean I'd keep my mouth shut if someone said, yeah screw that US war propaganda and you know what else, the NAZIs weren't as bad as they said.


Whole Civil War was in fact CAPITALIST INNER WAR FOR DOMINANCE, various Capitalist clashed over interest in Dominance, and that's what they are hiding from us, and want to represent war as War of Abolishment of Slavery.While part of the larger capitalist system at that time, the Southern economy was actually pretty different and the ruling class was most definitely had interests which were a fetter on industrial capitalism. The southern economy was really stagnant and undynamic because of the slave and plantation systems at the same time that the north was about to become a major industrial center. One of the capitalist hopes for reconstruction was to bring the south into the control of the northern capitalists. So there was a class difference - two regional ruling classes with diverging interests.


That's my viewpoint of Civil War, it was Capitalist War for Profit, Dominance and Monopoly and not some kind of Divine, Good Hearted war against Slavery as current USA (which is always saving humanity and helping us out in troubled times, which has Divine duty from God to help us (sarcasm).) wants us to represent.Well yeah, it wasn't a national liberation struggle or slave revolution let alone a workers revolution. But it was a historical step forward for the more "progressive" form of capitalism to win out with the resulting destruction of the chattel-slave system. In the history of the reconstruction era, there are many examples of how things could have even gone much further, but none the less, the war was a step forward just as something like the French Revolution was by and for capitalists, but unleashed a lot of class forces and paved the way for capitalism and the possibility of working class revolution.


I don't support Slavery, North or South... In my opinion it was Capitalist War and nothing else. I just want to put end to glorification of Civil War as Liberation of Black People!I'd say it was a war of liberation DESPITE the Union and it's leaders who did everything they could to accomodate to slavery and slave-owners until the idiocy of doing so and loosing the war as a result of it became too clear to them. But yes, the US governmnet uses it for propaganda purposes as they do many other progressive things, which often at the time were opposed by our ruling class. Hell, Republicans and Democrats love to quote MLK Jr.