Where do I stand.

[Anarchrusty]

Hello my fellow Revlefters collegues, I am calling on all of you to help me get better in arguments and to teach me some basic skills in winning discussions.

My story: the attraction to the left, for me, is it's staunch anti racist and anti sexist rhetoric against posed threats, and as a bisexual I weigh in on LGBT rights and the anti homophobic gay rights movements.
Thing is, I am not that much educated on economics and stuff and other leftist issues. I do know that I am in favour of absolute freedom and equility for all such as the working class, so in that sense I am radically left.
Unfortunately I have ADD and short attention span, and allthough I have tried reading books and internet articles I have trouble remembering what I read.
So, in conversations with capitalists and bourgeoise reactionairies I get frustrated easily, as the dickheads tend to laugh at me as if I were thick when in reality I am highly intelligent - just look at my almost flawless writing. I just can't show it as I loose my train of thought easily and seem to appear clueless.

Could everyone here weigh in to show me some tricks, and explain to me in normal English (no big words please) and if possible in a few sentences important facts I should know, people etc, events, history.

Every reply will be greatly appreciated.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

As opposed to asking others on 'Where You Stand', perhaps this is the incorrect question; The Question that needs to be asked within this situation is 'Where Do I Stand'? As opposed to asking others, you should question yourself and begin to theorize your own personal views regarding currently existing views and situations that are occurring within the Human Experience.

Asking yourself this and being capable of answering this afterward you should go on and analyze the theoretical ideas that you were capable of forming on your own and building your own analysis of 'Ideological Currents', Exploitation, Capitalism and Bourgeoisie Culture.

Resorting to petty 'Isms without having the ability to reach the conclusions of said Ism's on your own is infantile.

[Anarchrusty]

Lunarchansky, my positions are really just common sense. I oppose any kind of racism and sexism, I am pro-gay rights, pro-choice (in abortion matters), I oppose the exploitation of people by a brutal capitalist system, I abhor social constructions such as gender and race as I see them as ways to divise people, I believe society and it's ills are the prime shapers and movers of crime and violence and frustration, I want to see poverty extinguished, I believe in no borders and free movement for all, I believe in peace except for fascists, I call out oppression whenever I see it, I object to authority.

These are some of the things I can think off now. I would like to have some theoretical background on these topics so I have some more weight to throw around when in disgussing these themes. I know I am right, so it is really frustrating to being unable to show it.

Any tips on what I can say?

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

Lunarchansky, my positions are really just common sense. I oppose any kind of racism and sexism, I am pro-gay rights, pro-choice (in abortion matters), I oppose the exploitation of people by a brutal capitalist system, I abhor social constructions such as gender and race as I see them as ways to divise people, I believe society and it's ills are the prime shapers and movers of crime and violence and frustration, I want to see poverty extinguished, I believe in no borders and free movement for all, I believe in peace except for fascists, I call out oppression whenever I see it, I object to authority.

These are some of the things I can think off now. I would like to have some theoretical background on these topics so I have some more weight to throw around when in disgussing these themes. I know I am right, so it is really frustrating to being unable to show it.

Any tips on what I can say?
Identify yourself as you feel.

Say what you feel.

Educate yourself on existing theoretical concepts in order to get a grasp on Revolutionary Anti-Capitalist Theory.

[Broletariat]

A few important concepts all leftists should know.

Worker's are paid less than the value of their product. This is how a Capitalist makes a profit, this is exploitation, plain and simple.

There are certain "laws of capitalism" that FORCE capitalism to behave a certain way. If one capitalist doesn't invest in a profitable industry (say inciting a genocide somewhere in the third-world to make profits somehow) another WILL. It's just business. You cannot make a "pretty" Capitalism.

Capitalism has a tendency to drop into crisis, this is an internal tendency and impossible to escape.

If you have any further questions, feel free to PM me if you like.

[Anarchrusty]

Thanx for the offer Broletariat, I will certainly PM you if I have formulated some questions.
What do others around here feel I should know, which names and what they stand for, tendencies, differences between political adversaries, mechanism of and contribution to the social constructions and how to fight them, wage gap discrepancies and how to explain that to someone else, political correctness, affermative discrimination, etc etc.

[Broletariat]

Here's a little something I typed up on what tendency I tend to identify as and how it compares to other tendencies. Zanthorus or ZeroNowhere may be around to correct me, pay attention to those two posters, they're very knowledgable, along with S Artesian and Red Dave if you want names to watch out for.

http://pastebin.com/WDnZW9pg

[ColonelCossack]

revleft dictionary

http://www.revleft.com/vb/revolutionary-left-dictionary-t22628/index.html

does that help?

[The Idler]

I borrowed and summarised some of the arguments you're likely to encounter from High School Commie's Guide and consolidated them in Learning FAQ (http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft-com-consolidated-t131001/index.html). You'd also benefit from watching videos such as this;
qOP2V_np2c0

[Leftsolidarity]

Here's a little something I typed up on what tendency I tend to identify as and how it compares to other tendencies. Zanthorus or ZeroNowhere may be around to correct me, pay attention to those two posters, they're very knowledgable, along with S Artesian and Red Dave if you want names to watch out for.

http://pastebin.com/WDnZW9pg

:huh:

To OP: Stay away from "isms" for as long as possible (or forever). If you really really want to get into "isms" though I suggest reading into council communism and Marxism-Leninism. I'm a weird mix of the two along with many other things.

If you are debating with a capitalist dissect their argument piece by piece showing how they are simply ad hominems or are just flat out not true. They love to throw around words like "freedom" and "liberty" so make sure to point out how bourgeois freedom is the freedom to oppress another while our freedom is the freedom from exploitation. They also love to talk about the failures of the USSR, China, etc. Don't lie to yourself or the other person, they had big faults yet so does ever other country and every other new system trying to establish itself (point out how bourgeois revolutions have failed or turned out different than intended. example: The reign of terror in France). But please for the love of fuck DO NOT become an apologist. Another argument they love is "there would be no motivation or people inventing things". For a counter argument I refer you here: http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

You can also PM me if you need any help with anything.

[Broletariat]

To OP: Stay away from "isms" for as long as possible (or forever). If you really really want to get into "isms" though I suggest reading into council communism and Marxism-Leninism. I'm a weird mix of the two all with many other things.

Personally, I found it most helpful to study all of the "isms" and then come to a conclusion.

Besides, should he stay away from "communism" too? :P


If you are debating with a capitalist dissect their argument piece by piece showing how they are simply ad hominems or are just flat out not true. They love to throw around words like "freedom" and "liberty" so make sure to point out how bourgeois freedom is the freedom to oppress another while our freedom is the freedom from exploitation.

I would try to avoid such moralism and call them out on it when they bring it up.

[Leftsolidarity]

I would try to avoid such moralism and call them out on it when they bring it up.

I don't see why one should it avoid that since it is a core of Leftism.

[Broletariat]

I borrowed and summarised some of the arguments you're likely to encounter from High School Commie's Guide and consolidated them in Learning FAQ (http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft-com-consolidated-t131001/index.html). You'd also benefit from watching videos such as this;
qOP2V_np2c0

Doesn't Harvey reject the Labour Theory of Value? I'm usually skeptical of such videos, but I find that this series is quite good, but no substitute for an actual reading of Marx.

http://kapitalism101.wordpress.com/

That's one thing I'd like to stress, if you're curious about Marx, read Marx. Not a lot of people understand Marx, "Communists" included. Read Marx yourself and come to your own conclusions.


I don't see why one should it avoid that since it is a core of Leftism.

Maybe Leftism, but not Marxism.

[Anarchrusty]

ColonelCosack, that was pretty helpful, a thread were numerous links are compiled in order to have that information in one place. I will add that to my bookmarks so I can easily access it on any given time necessary.
Thing is, I have been reading about Stalin and Trotsky, and I have at least a basic grasp of their theories, but the word says it all: about.
Coz when I started reading the books by Marx and Engels (Das Kapital and Communist Manifesto) I zoned out each time. I have trouble understanding them.
Do you have any books and/or links ABOUT them? I find that I rather read shit that explains their theories instead of themselves. It may be a gateway to their work, coz I feel my grip on understanding it is very loose as of now.

Also: stuff on antifascism and feminsit theories without the BIG WORDS (scary shit) would be appreciated.

[Broletariat]

I do think that the original works are going to be much more beneficial than any sort of work about their work, especially on Trotskyism. Trotsykism has like 9001 different splits and different interpretations of Trotsky.

But still, why not start at the source with Marx?

Anti-fascism is fine in the context of worker based anti-fascism, but uniting with the bourgeoise is unacceptable. Same with feminism.

[Leftsolidarity]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Trotsky...........:cursing:

Maybe Leftism, but not Marxism.
:rolleyes:

OP: Don't get sucked into this whole Stalin vs. Trotsky thing. It is pointless. I think neither one of them had it right and reading Trotsky will make you want to jab your eyes out. Stick to Marx/Engels/Lenin/Luxemburg and if you want Mao because I like his little red book. For your reading problem, I understand because I have major ADD. Just set a goal for yourself that you will read like one chapter a day or something of the Manifesto and it shouldn't be too bad.