Off to Cuba

[Susurrus]

I will be (legally)going to Cuba in the fall. This will be the second time I have gone to Cuba, but I hadn't fully developed my political position when I went last time(though, no joke, I actually attended a private event with Elian Gonzales and Raul Castro, as well as visiting Che's house in Havana).

I created this thread to sort of discuss the situation in Cuba, particularly in relation to visiting as a person who disagrees with the dictatorial nature of the Cuban state, but thinks it should stay socialist and reform its way to freedom from capitalism and authoritarianism.

Also, if you have any questions about how I found the conditions in Cuba last time, ask away. I stayed in people's houses and one youth hostel for the duration, so I think I got a relatively good picture.

One more thing: does anyone know if Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell might be banned in Cuba? Someone I met there gave me a Spanish copy of Che's Bolivian Diaries, and I want to give him a Spanish version of Homage to Catalonia, but don't want to get him in trouble.

[Delenda Carthago]

Take money with you. Invest on real estate.

[manic expression]

That's great, comrade. One thing I'm wondering is if you were able to observe the electoral process at all. Your impressions on that would be interesting. Also, I would be curious as to hear if you see any changes this time around, and of what sort. The reforms have been a topic of hot discussion here, and it would be very helpful to get a first-hand look at them from someone who's been there before.


One more thing: does anyone know if Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell might be banned in Cuba? Someone I met there gave me a Spanish copy of Che's Bolivian Diaries, and I want to give him a Spanish version of Homage to Catalonia, but don't want to get him in trouble.
I'm almost 100% positive that it would be perfectly legal to have that book. I've followed the situation of so-called "political prisoners" (:rolleyes:) in Cuba, and I've never once heard of someone getting in trouble for having a book.


Take money with you. Invest on real estate.
You should invest in some Marxist writings.

[praxis1966]

Take money with you. Invest on real estate.

In other words, be a hypocrite and first rate capitalist?

[Broletariat]

In other words, be a hypocrite and first rate capitalist?

One can be a member of the bourgeoise and be a Communist, just ask Engels. Communism is not a lifestyle.

[praxis1966]

One can be a member of the bourgeoise and be a Communist, just ask Engels. Communism is not a lifestyle.

That's true, but something tells me you're crossing a line when you start investing in real estate in an ostensibly socialist country with a mind toward profit motives... Especially in a country like Cuba where the future of socialism is uncertain. Functionally, you're betting socialism will fail and your landholdings will increase in value under some future capitalist system. Of course, I'm not without my criticisms of Cuban socialism, but that doesn't change my point which is that you'd have to on some level be hoping for a failure in Cuba so that you can derive a profit. Excuse me if this doesn't sound like the behavior of a proper leftist.

None of this, however, is on topic. I recommend we all get back to discussing Susurrus's vacation plans.

[Susurrus]

That's great, comrade. One thing I'm wondering is if you were able to observe the electoral process at all. Your impressions on that would be interesting. Also, I would be curious as to hear if you see any changes this time around, and of what sort. The reforms have been a topic of hot discussion here, and it would be very helpful to get a first-hand look at them from someone who's been there before.


I'm almost 100% positive that it would be perfectly legal to have that book. I've followed the situation of so-called "political prisoners" (:rolleyes:) in Cuba, and I've never once heard of someone getting in trouble for having a book.


I'm afraid I wasn't able to observe any elective processes, though the people I met did say there was a strong democratic element to the government. I'll keep an eye out, the last time there was a lot of new construction going on due to the recent reform that allowed people to build houses themselves.

That's good, thanks.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Take me with you T.T

[Ocean Seal]

In other words, be a hypocrite and first rate capitalist?


One can be a member of the bourgeoise and be a Communist, just ask Engels. Communism is not a lifestyle.

I believe he was being sarcastic when saying "invest in real estate" as a way of saying Cuba isn't socialist.

[praxis1966]

I believe he was being sarcastic when saying "invest in real estate" as a way of saying Cuba isn't socialist.

That's a fair observation and entirely possible. It's also the reason I use one of these when I'm being a wiseass most of the time.-->;)

[ellipsis]

One more thing: does anyone know if Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell might be banned in Cuba? Someone I met there gave me a Spanish copy of Che's Bolivian Diaries, and I want to give him a Spanish version of Homage to Catalonia, but don't want to get him in trouble.

As has already been stated, no this book is not illegal. In fact no book, music, etc. is actually illegal in Cuba. There are books which are not imported by the state, but nothing is stopping you from doing so. I read Brave New World when I was in Cuba.

I imagine some literature on things like bomb making and drug cultivation/creation ARE illegal, but I do not know this, just an educated guess.

[praxis1966]

I imagine some literature on things like bomb making and drug cultivation/creation ARE illegal, but I do not know this, just an educated guess.

They're de facto illegal here in the States as well. Oh sure, you can find your odd anarcho bookshop or head shop that'll sell stuff like the Anarchist Cookbook (not that the thing is worth the paper it's printed on, but still), but you'll never see that stuff on the shelf of a chain bookstore... which is mostly what you find in small towns.

Not that I'm trying to argue with you... Just sorta thinkin' out loud, lulz...

[L.A.P.]

I've followed the situation of so-called "political prisoners" (:rolleyes:) in Cuba, and I've never once heard of someone getting in trouble for having a book.

Could you explain your finding on the political prisoners in Cuba?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Could you explain your finding on the political prisoners in Cuba?

I do know that there are over 70 American political refugees, some escaped political prisoners such as Assata Shakur, living in Cuba. I don't about Cuban political prisoners.

[praxis1966]

I gotta wonder, though, what other political currents are running through Cuba right now beside the pressure toward capitalism. OP, you know anything about the anarchists there? If so, what's your assessment of them?

[Susurrus]

As has already been stated, no this book is not illegal. In fact no book, music, etc. is actually illegal in Cuba. There are books which are not imported by the state, but nothing is stopping you from doing so. I read Brave New World when I was in Cuba.

Great! I suppose I presumed too little of them.

[Susurrus]

the Anarchist Cookbook (not that the thing is worth the paper it's printed on, but still), but you'll never see that stuff on the shelf of a chain bookstore...

Actually, I found my copy in Barnes and Noble :D.

[Susurrus]

I gotta wonder, though, what other political currents are running through Cuba right now beside the pressure toward capitalism. OP, you know anything about the anarchists there? If so, what's your assessment of them?

I do know that there is a strong current against the capitalist reforms in Cuba, though if there's any formal representation of it I do not know.

As for anarchists, when the Castro government took power, it expelled the anarchists from the Cuban Worker's Confederation, the main union, then proceeded to repress them, admittedly through less violent means than other regimes ie shutting down printers and arresting a few, then releasing them.

The great irony of this is that Camilo Cienfuegos, a hugely popular revolutionary figure and the number three commander during the invasion after Castro and Che, was an anarchist. He died when his plane vanished without a trace shortly after the revolution. I personally think it was just a coincidence, but who knows? Anyhow, Che dedicated his book Guerilla Warfare to him("Few men have succeeded in leaving on every action such a distinctive personal mark. He had the natural intelligence of the people, who had chosen him out of thousands for a privileged position on account of the audacity of his blows, his tenacity, his intelligence, and unequalled devotion. Camilo practiced loyalty like a religion.") and there are murals and posters of him all over Cuba. He's the one with the huge beard and the cowboy hat.

The current anarchist movement in Cuba is entirely underground, if there is one. There is an exile community of anarchists, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Libertarian_Movement (note: the info on the anarchists is entirely taken from third-party sources, I had absolutely no contact with any anarchists in Cuba, nor felt it a good idea to inquire about them.)

[Susurrus]

Also, a general Cuba update: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/23/2282186/measure-seeks-to-limit-travel.html Lucky for me, this does not affect me, but if it passes, it will have a huge impact on exiles and their families in Cuba.

[Sir Comradical]

You should invest in some Marxist writings.


In other words, be a hypocrite and first rate capitalist?

Chill out kids...

I'm pretty sure AttackGR is alluding to the potential for market reforms to take hold in Cuba which would result in massive rises in real estate prices. In other words, he's disillusioned with the Cuban regime and simply making a joke about their slide towards capitalist restoration.

[brigadista]

If you didnt go before try and visit Baracoa - on the coast down from santiago de cuba -

[Susurrus]

If you didnt go before try and visit Baracoa - on the coast down from santiago de cuba -

I'm afraid there's not much choice as to where I can go, as I am travelling a pre-planned route. You see, the way I get to Cuba is that the church my family goes to has a "sister church" in a village called Sibanicu. They arrange a group trip there to take supplies and aid to the village, and I come to help with that and see Cuba. The people there arrange our route and logistics, so I don't have too much say where we go. Last time I went to Camaguey, Sibanicu, passed through Santa Clara(didn't get to the see the Che memorial, group leader insisted we pass it by), and Havana.

[manic expression]

Could you explain your finding on the political prisoners in Cuba?
Check your PM inbox.

[praxis1966]

Yeah, I know who Cienfuegos is... And I kinda recall the reference Che made to him in Guerrilla Warfare (I read it once, but that was ages ago). What I was asking about was current day stuff. There's a group in my area of Cuban expats who've formed some kind of anarchist hip-hop collective of sorts and they claim to have ties to similarly motivated groups in Cuba proper... Mainly what I was wondering about is how sincere these guys are and whether they actually have any ties to the Cuban working class... or if they're just another variation on the "Down with Castro!" meme.


Actually, I found my copy in Barnes and Noble :D.

Fuckin' weird. I tried to order mine through a similar chain and they refused on the grounds that their insurance carrier would drop them if they sold it.

[Delenda Carthago]

That's true, but something tells me you're crossing a line when you start investing in real estate in an ostensibly socialist country with a mind toward profit motives... Especially in a country like Cuba where the future of socialism is uncertain. Functionally, you're betting socialism will fail and your landholdings will increase in value under some future capitalist system. Of course, I'm not without my criticisms of Cuban socialism, but that doesn't change my point which is that you'd have to on some level be hoping for a failure in Cuba so that you can derive a profit. Excuse me if this doesn't sound like the behavior of a proper leftist.

None of this, however, is on topic. I recommend we all get back to discussing Susurrus's vacation plans.
Cuba is not socialist.

[praxis1966]

Cuba is not socialist.

That's why I used the word "ostensibly"... It means they claim to be not that they necessarily are; it's also why I mentioned "my own criticisms."

[Susurrus]

What I was asking about was current day stuff. There's a group in my area of Cuban expats who've formed some kind of anarchist hip-hop collective of sorts and they claim to have ties to similarly motivated groups in Cuba proper... Mainly what I was wondering about is how sincere these guys are and whether they actually have any ties to the Cuban working class... or if they're just another variation on the "Down with Castro!" meme.


Well, if they do have links in Cuba, they'd be underground, so hard to verify, though not impossible. The Anarchist movement in Cuba was pretty widespread before Castro's revolution, and after the revolution a lot of the anarchists left the country due to their repression and the failure of what they expected to be a truly communist revolution. So yes, entirely possible that these are sincere working class anarchists, rather than bourgeoisie refugees.


edited by praxis1966 to remove personal info

[praxis1966]

Well, if they do have links in Cuba, they'd be underground, so hard to verify, though not impossible. The Anarchist movement in Cuba was pretty widespread before Castro's revolution, and after the revolution a lot of the anarchists left the country due to their repression and the failure of what they expected to be a truly communist revolution. So yes, entirely possible that these are sincere working class anarchists, rather than bourgeoisie refugees.

Yeah, I think it's possible as well, but the guys out here aren't doing them [the ones still in Cuba if in fact there are any] any favors... My impression of the ones here is that their politics aren't particularly sophisticated. On the other hand, it may have been a silly question for me to ask to begin with given that most people who aren't Cuban have their visits to the island pretty well controlled... lol

[Susurrus]

Yeah, I think it's possible as well, but the guys out here aren't doing them [the ones still in Cuba if in fact there are any] any favors... My impression of the ones here is that their politics aren't particularly sophisticated. On the other hand, it may have been a silly question for me to ask to begin with given that most people who aren't Cuban have their visits to the island pretty well controlled... lol

Well, if they're younger they may well have inherited their politics, hence the simplicity. And this is true too, if I could contact secret anarchist organizations in under a week, I'd tell them to improve their security culture ;).

[praxis1966]

Well, if they're younger they may well have inherited their politics, hence the simplicity. And this is true too, if I could contact secret anarchist organizations in under a week, I'd tell them to improve their security culture ;).

Hah for sure. Personally, I think the ones here are just a bunch of idealistic kids trying to make themselves sound more important than they really are.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Just have a good time in Cuba. Drink rum, smoke cigarettes, play dominos, and eat eat eat. Since you're going to Cuba to provide aid, you will be tied to money, which means people are going to tell you whatever they think you want to hear to get more "fula".

I have a Port-o-Rican "socio" that went to Cuba and he came back amazed at how much people talk bad about Castro over there. Then, I found out that he was anti-Castro and he took lots of aid to Cuba. The Cubans sold him what he wanted. If you've been to Cuba, you'd notice that no one spends their whole day, or even more than 5 minutes, talking shit about Castro. They rather go to the beach, walk outside, sleep, or watch a novela.

Also, PORNOGRAPHY IS ILLEGAL, so don't take that unless you're willing to risk getting caught and the repercussions. I'm not saying that you intend to, but I saw several postings claiming that no books are illegal. Also, it's hard to get caught unless you look suspicious, you get checked for something serious (drugs, explosives, etc.), and they find the porno.

Do you think you would be able to pass for a Cuban person while you are there?