serious prison riots in venezuela

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13833033


Venezuela prison stand-off: El Rodeo inmates moved

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53523000/jpg/_53523975_012256471-1.jpg Officials say most of the prison is back under their control
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13833033#story_continues_1) Related Stories



Extra troops reach Venezuela jail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13825576)
Venezuelan troops storm riot jail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13818928)
Venezuela prison riot kills 19 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13770767)


The Venezuelan authorities have transferred 2,500 prisoners from a jail near Caracas as they seek to reassert control there.
On Friday, troops took over most of El Rodeo jail in Guatire, after a riot between rival gangs of prisoners a week ago left some 20 people dead.
But a stand-off continues in one prison wing, after attempts to negotiate with a group of armed inmates failed.
The interior minister said some 50 prisoners were refusing to disarm.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53513000/jpg/_53513701_012254005-1.jpg Relatives react to the evacuation of inmates from El Rodeo jail
In the meantime, the authorities have sought to deal with the prisoners from the part of El Rodeo they already control.
In the early morning of Sunday, they began transferring some 2,500 inmates by bus to a number of other prisons in the country.
They planned to move the remaining 1,000 inmates later in the day.
Officials say the measure is temporary, designed to protect the fundamental rights of the prisoners.
'Short circuit' fire Many of the inmates' relatives, however, remain highly anxious about a situation that is still very volatile.
Two members of the security forces and at least one prisoner were killed in clashes inside the jail when the security operation started on Friday.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53513000/gif/_53513782_venezuela_guatire_june11.gif
Hundreds of relatives have gathered outside the jail, where they have clashed with security forces in recent days.
Some of them watched with great alarm as a fire broke out in part of the prison before dawn on Sunday.
The Venezuelan authorities denied that they had started the fire deliberately.
A senior government official, Nestor Reverol, said the blaze - which has since been put out - had been caused by an electrical short circuit and that no-one had been hurt.
Waiting game Attempts to end the stand-off inside part of El Rodeo have so far failed.
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13833033#story_continues_2) “Start Quote


We'll last out for as long as it takes”
Tareck El Aissimi Venezuelan interior minister
On Saturday, Interior Minister Tareck el-Aissimi said the leaders of a group of inmates - whom he called "hostile" and "negative" - had been using their weapons to exert control over more than 1,000 fellow inmates in that area of the jail.
Mr Aissami told the state television channel, VTV, that the leaders were demanding that government troops - who number some 4,000 - pull out of the jail.
And he said the men would not permit a search of the part of the prison they controlled.
The authorities have been trying to implement a crackdown on guns within the jail, and have so far confiscated a number of firearms and a quantity of drugs.
But Mr Aissami said he was prepared to play a waiting game.
"We'll last out for as long as it takes," he said.
"Time is not on their side. We're on our guard, waiting for them to hand over their weapons."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13837269


Venezuela prison stand-off: Families' anxiety grows

By Juan Paullier BBC Mundo, Caracas http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53520000/jpg/_53520355_012256112-1.jpg Families are unsure when they will see their imprisoned relatives
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13837269#story_continues_1) Related Stories



Extra troops reach Venezuela jail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13825576)
Venezuelan troops storm riot jail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13818928)
Venezuela prison riot kills 19 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13770767)


Relatives of inmates in Venezuela's El Rodeo prison complex are anxious, desperate and angry.
And they want one thing above all else: information.
On 12 June, a riot in one section of the jail, El Rodeo I, left some 20 people dead.
Since then, the authorities have been trying to retake control of the prison in Guatire, some 50km (31 miles) east of the capital, Caracas.
And since then, family members have been gathering about a kilometre from the prison's entrance.
It is the closest they can get, as National Guard troops are blocking the road.
Relatives' anxiety increased on Friday when the authorities sent a 5,000-strong force into the jail.
Officials say they found weapons, grenades and drugs as they took over El Rodeo I, while two members of the security forces and at least one prisoner were killed in clashes.
The authorities say they are now back in charge of most of the prison but some inmates are still holding out.
'Is he dead?' While the situation inside the jail remains unclear, outside rumours abound.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53520000/jpg/_53520379_012255847-1.jpg Prisoners were moved to other jails across Venezuela
On Sunday, some 500 people were on the access road to the jail. The majority were women - the mothers, wives or girlfriends of the prisoners.
Some have spent days here, sleeping as best they can and wherever they can.
They say they will not leave until they know what is happening within the prison walls, some of which are blackened by a fire reportedly caused by an electrical fault.
Yuselis Paez has not left the area since Thursday. Her husband, Hector Pacheco, has been in El Rodeo for a year.
"On Friday, he called me at 4am and said the Greens [National Guard troops] were going in and that the prisoners were going to give themselves up," she said.
But since then she has heard nothing from her husband.
"I don't know if he's dead or alive. And when we try to ask, they [the troops] just fire tear gas at us. Or sometimes 'just' water cannon."
Ms Paez has toothpaste smeared on her face. Like many of the women who have spent days here, she uses it to lessen the effects of the tear gas.
Others cover their faces with handkerchiefs.
Ms Paez's husband was in El Rodeo I, but she does not know if he is one of the 2,500 prisoners who were transferred early on Sunday to a number of other prisons in the country.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53520000/jpg/_53520377_012256212-1.jpg Venezuela's severely crowded jails see frequent disturbances
All morning, inmates were bussed out.
The authorities say the measure is temporary and the prisoners will be brought back in a fortnight.
Relatives are sceptical. They also believe there have been more casualties but information is scarce.
Electricity has been cut off, so prisoners are using the mobiles phones they have access to sparingly.
Due for release Moises Hernandez's 22-year-old son is in El Rodeo II, where the stand-off has been continuing.
"If he is in the mortuary, it pains my soul but I'll go find him to bury him. If he's injured, I'll go to hospital to look after him," Mr Hernandez said.
"No representative of the state has shown up. They don't give us information. They say how many National Guard troops have been injured but nothing more."
Yulimar Rojas is waiting outside El Rodeo for news of her husband, Jose Trujillo, who is in Rodeo II.
Trujillo has been imprisoned for two-and-a-half years, and she has visited him every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.
The last Ms Rojas heard from him was a text message on Saturday afternoon that said: "I'm OK."
Her husband had had his sentence reduced for having studied inside jail.
"He was supposed to get out on Friday. Who knows when he'll get out now," she said.
Translated from the original Spanish by Liz Throssell, BBC News.


sigh ...

[danyboy27]

those damn counterrevolutionaries convicts, always making troubles!

[Nofuture]

I read about this yesterday. It would be great to fight the police from the outside and help liberate the prisoners. Ending prisons is a necessity.

[RedSonRising]

I read about this yesterday. It would be great to fight the police from the outside and help liberate the prisoners. Ending prisons is a necessity.


Structurally transitioning from a society that uses imprisonment in jails to one that does not and instead emphasizes rehabilitation is vital for the progress of the working people, but shooting at cops and freeing large groups of mostly non-politicized individuals likely acculturated to the violent and individualistic culture of street life and prison life into broader society doesn't help the working class, the prisoners themselves, or anyone.

[L.A.P.]

those damn counterrevolutionaries convicts, always making troubles!

Yeah because anyone who supports Hugo Chavez think that the Venezuelan state is perfect, because everyone knows that Chavez controls every part of the system and has fully changed it into his ideal state.:rolleyes:

[Troof]

I wonder how many old white men at the Pentagon are pretending to be radicals on the internet...

[L.A.P.]

Why do you wonder that?

[danyboy27]

I wonder how many old white men at the Pentagon are pretending to be radicals on the internet...


reporting reality is not pretending to be a leftist radical, its just fact.

venezuelian prisons are overcrowded, and it lead to problems, and the same could be said about Mexican and columbian prisons.

[The Vegan Marxist]

It appears that a lot of the opportunist hacks in this forum who unconditionally showed support in the rioters, and subsequently against Chavez's govt., were, once again, dead wrong in their analysis:

http://venezuelanalysis.com/files/imagecache/block_node_images/images/2011/06/publicacion-de-listas1.png
Relatives of the 3,500 prisoners housed at El Rodeo I and II
review lists of the prisoners transferred to nearby prisons in
government attempts to bring ongoing prison riots to an end (AVN).

Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela’s Prisons Today
By JUAN REARDON – VENEZUELANALYSIS.COM , June 21st 2011

Merida, June 21st 2011 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Five days into a deadly prison riot at one of Venezuela’s most notorious urban prisons, government officials today continued their efforts to bring the riot and kidnapping to a close through dialogue. Having already transferred the majority (2,500) of El Rodeo Prison’s inmates to nearby prisons, authorities said they are negotiating directly with the Pranes prison gang in an attempt to secure the release of the remaining 1,000 prisoners.

Since clashes began late Thursday night, the official death count includes four prisoners and two members of the National Guard. In addition, 38 people have been wounded- 18 prisoners and 20 members of the security forces. According to a National Guard spokesman, 36 inmates were “rescued” from “violent prisoners” on Monday afternoon, though gunshots were reported late Monday night.

At midday Tuesday, the names of the 2,500 transferred prisoners were made public so as to calm uncertainty among prisoner’s families.

Violence in Venezuela’s Prisons

According to the International Centre for Prison Studies (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=224) (ICPS), the 43,461 people currently held in Venezuelan prisons place the country’s prison population rate at 149 prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants. Countries in the region with higher prison population rates (based on the same per 100,000 figure) include the United States (743), Chile (305), Guyana (284), Brazil (253), Mexico (200), and Colombia (181).

While Venezuela’s per capital prison rate is lower than some in the region, violent clashes are commonplace; with figures (http://www.cidh.oas.org/Comunicados/English/2011/57-11eng.htm) from an Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) hearing that refer to 476 dead and 967 wounded in 2010 alone. A year earlier, the Venezuelan Prison Observatory (OVP) published their 2009 report (http://www.ovprisiones.org/pdf/INFOVP2009.pdf) placing the total number of prisoners killed and wounded that year at 366 and 635, respectively. While these figures are troubling, they can be considered an improvement if compared to prison violence in 2008 (422 dead, 854 wounded) and 2007 (498 dead, 1,023 wounded).

Overcrowding appears to be a major factor triggering Venezuela’s levels of prison violence. According to InsightCrime.com (http://www.insightcrime.com/insight-latest-news/item/972-inmate-takeovers-reflect-chaos-in-venezuela-prisons), Venezuela has the capacity to house 14,500 inmates in a total of 34 prisons nationwide, but with almost 44,000 prisoners the country is nearing three times as many prisoners as capacity to house them.

El Rodeo I and II, for example, were originally designed to house 750 prisoners, one fifth of the actual 3,500 they were holding at the time riots began on Thursday. In late April of this year, prisoners at El Rodeo also took 22 officials hostage in what they claimed was a protest against a tuberculosis outbreak in the prison.

Earlier this month, clashes between gangs at El Rodeo left 22 prisoners dead, and the recent spat of violence is said to have begun after government forces began a search and seizure operation to unarm El Rodeo’s prison population.

The high prison populations reflect government attempts to satisfy the general population’s frustrations with elevated crime rates across the country, especially in urban centers. The current government is making more of an effort than previous governments to combat corruption in the security forces and state institutions, as well as violence against women, and street violence. Meanwhile, it is also implementing a “prison humanization” program which includes a prison orchestra, cultural classes, job training, and allowing non-risk prisoners to leave prisons during the day. It is also encouraging community policing, with an emphasis on crime prevention. Unfortunately though, changes have been slow in coming.

Contextualizing Prison Violence

In April this year, Venezuela’s national assembly unanimously passed a new Penitentiary Code bill aimed at reducing violent crime in the country’s prisons. According to Correo del Orinoco, the newly enacted legislation has four core principles: respect for human rights, the classification of inmates, the establishment of sanctions for those who violate accepted norms in the treatment of those serving time, and the development of alternative sentences related to conditional freedom, study and work.

Blanca Eekhout, vice president of the National Assembly, called for an end to gang-related prison violence, affirming that the current Venezuelan government’s efforts to “humanize prisons” are only possible if authorities are able to dismantle the “prison gangs that have become an institution within prison walls, a drama throughout the continent and throughout our history.”

Speaking to reporters on Monday, Venezuelan national assembly president Fernando Soto Rojas put the current prison violence into context. Referring specifically to El Rodeo, Rojas said, “What is happening in our prisons is not separate from a concrete, historical reality, above and beyond the responsibilities the revolution has” in bringing the current prison violence to a halt.

“We want to know how these weapons, including weapons of war, entered the prisons, and this question must be investigated in depth, no matter who might fall (politically) as a result,” he said.

Opposition opportunism

Eekhout also accused the Venezuelan opposition of “opportunism” surrounding the El Rodeo prison violence, saying that opposition statements to the press have served only to heighten tension among prisoners’ families and are part of an “irresponsible, permanent attempt to destabilize” the country.

Members of the Venezuelan opposition have jumped at the opportunity to highlight the suffering of poor and working families – the Chavez government’s base of support – people who have relatives confined in overcrowded prisons.

These “opportunists,” she said, “are the vultures of Venezuelan politics. They have never respected the country, never believed in the capabilities of our people, and would love nothing more than to see another massacre against prisoners…like what we all saw in Catia (1992).”

On 27 November 1992, under the government of then president Carlos Andres Perez, Venezuelan authorities stormed El Reten de Catia – a Caracas prison built to temporarily house 700 prisoners but held 4,000 at the time – killing somewhere between 63 and 200 prisoners. According to Amnesty International (http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR53/009/1992/en/c44ef638-ed92-11dd-95f6-0b268ecef84f/amr530091992en.html), “the National Guard is alleged to have entered the prison [El Reten de Catia] firing indiscriminately.”

Venezuelan Vice President Elias Jaua went even further, calling opposition spokespeople who have in recent days visited the perimeters of El Rodeo “a miserable lot.”

"There they are…taking their photos, giving fake embraces to the impoverished women who are living a great deal of anxiety, waiting to get information about their sons locked up in El Rodeo Prison,” he said.

Jaua speculated that if a prison riot of this nature had occurred during “the 4th Republic” (1958-1998), “hundreds of prisoners would have already been killed, since the security forces would have been sent in at once to massacre prisoners.”

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6289

[danyboy27]

Damn right i am on the prisoner side on this one vegan. if you have to incarcerate a human being, the least you can do is to provide at least minimum of ressources to those folks, a decent amount of space.

this is not a critique to Chavez political regime we are doing right now, its a critique on how the prison system is managed in Venezuela.

Its quite possible that those conditions where worst before he came to power, but it dosnt change nothing from the fact that there are folks in venezuela in jail who have to endure a lot of suffering right now.

these folks are human being, they are rapist, murderer, gang members, but they are human beings, and human being deserve to live. Sometimes you have to isolate them beccause of the risk they pose, but they are still human.

Its just fucking sad how low you can value human life vegan.

[The Vegan Marxist]

If you're going to side with prisoner gangs over a govt. that's actually trying to making prison conditions better, then I would consider you an opportunist. Of course the conditions are still poor, and are in need of reforms. Hence why only a few days ago Chavez and his govt. announced that reforms were coming soon (http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6277). They knew what was going to happen, but it came sooner than expected.

As the article shown above points out, the Venezuelan govt. are going along correct guidelines of handling the situation and actually listening to the prisoners and their demands/grievances. This is much more than we can say of past govt. operations to prison riots in Venezuela, let alone how we in the U.S. handle prison riots (I'm sure I don't have to explain Attica). And you may not be critiquing the Venezuelan govt., which if not, then you're not part of my own critique, but there are other people who are being opportunists here to continue their anti-Chavez campaign (Nofuture is an example).

I would also say your comment, "those damn counterrevolutionaries convicts, always making troubles!," just comes to show your lack of dialectical materialism, and subsequently opportunism in waiting for a clear analysis over what happened. You simply relied on a single report by the bourgeois press, without hearing the other side of the story.

[danyboy27]

As the article shown above points out, the Venezuelan govt. are going along correct guidelines of handling the situation and actually listening to the prisoners and their demands/grievances. This is much more than we can say of past govt. operations to prison riots in Venezuela, let alone how we in the U.S. handle prison riots (I'm sure I don't have to explain Attica). And you may not be critiquing the Venezuelan govt., which if not, then you're not part of my own critique, but there are other people who are being opportunists here to continue their anti-Chavez campaign (Nofuture is an example).
.[/QUOTE]

if their basic need where met, well perhaps they wouldnt have to deal with the situation in itself. Then again i understand that the chavez governement is dealing with the mean they have avaliable, i am just pointing out the reality that is present in many governements worldwide and i think despicable. This is not a particular critic against the chavez governement, just against states in general.


[QUOTE=
I would also say your comment, "those damn counterrevolutionaries convicts, always making troubles!," just comes to show your lack of dialectical materialism, and subsequently opportunism in waiting for a clear analysis over what happened. You simply relied on a single report by the bourgeois press, without hearing the other side of the story.[/QUOTE]


i just wanted to make some fun about those who think venezuela is a perfect place, you know the same kind of folks who think china is actually a socialist regime? The reality is, venezuela is a state and have to deal with the same problem most state have to deal with, that is, that is, bureaucracy, corruption and the tendency to react to a problem rather than dirrectly fixing it.

[danyboy27]

also vegan, try to understand that the word soon is meaningless to a person incarcerated in squalid condition and sleeping in a small cell with 7 persons.

these conditions are a breeding ground for disease and infections.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Yes, but you stated you side with the prisoners over the Chavez govt. Whereas, instead of really showing any unconditional support on either side, I look at what both sides are doing. Yes, where many prisoners got fed up with the conditions and wanted reforms now, they revolted. And, like any prison riot, there were opportunist prisoners who had no legitimate demands, and simply wanted to reek destruction.

Then we have the current pro-socialist govt. who's been trying to fight for both the much-needed prison reforms and the bureaucrats trying to prevent said reforms from materializing. So, not trying to be an opportunist here, I side with Chavez and the current govt. as they handled the situation quite professionally in my opinion, and are really trying to bring forth reforms.

[danyboy27]

Yes, but you stated you side with the prisoners over the Chavez govt. Whereas, instead of really showing any unconditional support on either side, I look at what both sides are doing. Yes, where many prisoners got fed up with the conditions and wanted reforms now, they revolted. And, like any prison riot, there were opportunist prisoners who had no legitimate demands, and simply wanted to reek destruction.

Then we have the current pro-socialist govt. who's been trying to fight for both the much-needed prison reforms and the bureaucrats trying to prevent said reforms from materializing. So, not trying to be an opportunist here, I side with Chavez and the current govt. as they handled the situation quite professionally in my opinion, and are really trying to bring forth reforms.
Prisonnier dont break shit for fun you know, there is a reason why this is happening. they environnement suck, they hate it, so they destroy it.

you can still deny it, but you are taking side, by being an apologist of what the venezuelian governement is not doing and by only cheering up for the good things that are happening.

I dont get it, when the Chavez governement do something right, its all beccause of how socialist this governement is, how good it is, but when it come to admitting the flaws of the system or its limitations, its only the fault of a fews bureaucrats here and there.

Kinda remember me the republican claiming the death of bin laden what their achievement and putting the huuge economical crisis on the politics of Obama.

I am biaised, i admit it, i think its a fucking shame that we still lock up human being worldwide in such condition.

Hell, my own governement jails have living conditions 10 times better than the one in Venezuela and i still think its a fucking shame.

In my province, we got group punitive method, imagine being locked in 23 hours for months, being allowed to go out only 1 hour to take a shower and do the laundry, just beccause someone of your block did something stupid.
Guardians standing by while folks beat the shit out of another one, all sort of atrocities like that.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

If you're going to side with prisoner gangs over a govt. that's actually trying to making prison conditions better, then I would consider you an opportunist. Of course the conditions are still poor, and are in need of reforms. Hence why only a few days ago Chavez and his govt. announced that reforms were coming soon (http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6277). They knew what was going to happen, but it came sooner than expected.


Yeah, I mean, Hugo Chavez has only been in power for twelve years. It's not like he could have reformed the prison system in that timespan :rolleyes:. I didn't see anyone say "Wow, I hope the opposition overthrows Hugo Chavez". But this has been a huge fucking failure on the part of the Chavez government, and it's a pretty fair criticism to say that their government has a tendency to only solve problems once they reach a catastrophic level.

Why are reforms "coming soon"? Why didn't they come at any other time in the past decade? That's what I want to know. Why did the Chavez government wait to fix the problem until it got so bad? I don't think the article you posted answered that and I haven't heard a convincing answer from the Venezuelan government. Of course, I'm not encouraging their overthrow, but I would like them to govern in a more proactive manner.



As the article shown above points out, the Venezuelan govt. are going along correct guidelines of handling the situation and actually listening to the prisoners and their demands/grievances. This is much more than we can say of past govt. operations to prison riots in Venezuela, let alone how we in the U.S. handle prison riots (I'm sure I don't have to explain Attica). And you may not be critiquing the Venezuelan govt., which if not, then you're not part of my own critique, but there are other people who are being opportunists here to continue their anti-Chavez campaign (Nofuture is an example).
.This is true, and they do deserve commendation for negotiating with the prisoners. Certainly this is better than most governments around the world. But they also deserve condemnation for allowing such poor conditions in the prison system to begin with.



I would also say your comment, "those damn counterrevolutionaries convicts, always making troubles!," just comes to show your lack of dialectical materialism, and subsequently opportunism in waiting for a clear analysis over what happened. You simply relied on a single report by the bourgeois press, without hearing the other side of the storyWhat you mean by criticizing Dannyboy for not being a "Dialectical materialist"? A dialectical materialist would say that the prison riot started due to (1) poor prison conditions and (2) corrupted law enforcement systems that allow for weapons to be in the prison system. Both of these are the fault of the government. And a Dialectical Materialist would also say that the Chavez government can institute better policies if it responds to legitimate criticism.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Yeah, I mean, Hugo Chavez has only been in power for twelve years.

Except for the fact that they've been addressing the much-needed reforms in Venezuelan prisons over the years:

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6119

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6277

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5420

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/3260

If anyone remembers the prison riots in Venezuela in both 2007 and 2008, you'd remember that plenty of deaths took place then. Reforms have been initiated, but there are of course much more reforms needed. The fact that this was much less violent than the last ones, and instead of brutal counteractions, the govt. instead addressed the riots peacefully, going through negotiations, and making sure as many prisoners were transfered away to safety, to me shows progress.

Yes, much more progress is needed, and this year's riot shows that more is needed. So I seriously hope Chavez and his govt. comes to understand this and really do fight for more reforms, as they've claimed.

[RichardAWilson]

I believe they will continue tackling the problem and implementing reforms. However, they've had to contend with a number of pressing matters. Venezuela, as a whole, is still doing much better than neighboring countries. You can thank the Social Populism (Bolivarian Revolution) for the progress that has been made.