Would owning stocks in developing countries make me a hypocrite?

[MarxSchmarx]

I just moved to take up a new job that pays more than my old job, but the cost of living is quite a bit cheaper and I have a bit of extra money.

I've already tried the run of the mill things like buying beer that you don't have to be trashed to want to drink, and going back to giving street people money when they ask for it. I thought of donating the extra earnings to charity, but the job is temporary and so I've started parking the money in the bank just in case the next gig proves a lot harder to get.

But recently I've begun thinking about "trying to get the money work for you" which is basically capitalism. I've looked into some of the microfinance stuff but the sort of things that let denizens of the global north like me can get involved in are sketchy as all get out. It would be nice to be able to also start a nest egg of sorts to pay the expenses that will come with starting a family.

On the other hand, I think it will be kind of silly if I rail against capitalism and start investing in the more lucrative stocks in places like Brazil and China. It's something everyone else does, and I certainly won't have enough to live on in perpetuaity so I justify it that way but I'm not sure that's legit. What do you guys think?

[La Comédie Noire]

It's something everyone else does, and I certainly won't have enough to live on in perpetuaity so I justify it that way but I'm not sure that's legit.

Is there such a thing as being "a little bit pregnant"?

[Tablo]

I wouldn't blame you if you invest a little of your money in stocks.

[praxis1966]

Just donate it a portion of your stock profits, should you make any, to some cash poor charitable or activist organization and I think you can alleviate some of your guilt.

Shit, look at it this way: Chumbawamba once sold the rights to "Tubthumping" to Ford for a crapload of cash, but they turned around and gave the profits to radical environmental organizations IIRC. You can reconcile not giving away all of it with the fact that you're not a top selling musician and kinda need the money anyway.

[Rusty Shackleford]

it is hypocritical. i mean, you are taking part in the very economic force that drives imperialism.


but, do what you want. not my money and not in my control.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Yes it is hypocritical but then its pretty much impossible to be an anti-capitalist and not be hypocritical in a world of capitalism - the only way to distinguish between hypocricies is by determining the extent to which they're hypocritical.

For example, pretty much all of the shit I own is made by exploitative corporations, but that's a lesser evil given that its a difficult reality to escape. Actively engaging in capitalism by investing requires a more conscious decision, in that your consciously being a hypocrite and doing what capitalists do.

Its the world we live in though, and its your beliefs, prinicples and activity that count, so why not? As long as you still struggle and as long as you would give it all up. I wouldn't do it personally, but I wouldn't say someone isn't a communist because they did it, even if they were a hypocrite. Just remember that if you go too far that way and a revolution comes about, someone on this forum may be taking all of your privalege away by force ;).

[Thirsty Crow]

Every human being who is a communist and deposits money with a bank is a hypocrite.
C'mon people, get a grip. There is no qualitative difference between the example above and what MarxSchmarx intended to do.
Grow up.
And to clarify, if I had a nice bundle of extra money, I would probably bet on certain sports events (100% profits are not hard to score) since it's legal around here.

[Tablo]

Ultimately just do what is best for you financially. I have no confidence in the overthrow of capitalism in the near future and as long as you don't go full blown bourgeois I don't see a problem. We all have our own situation and if a few investments can improve your financial situation for the future and maybe allow a good retirement then I say go for it. Not investing won't destroy capital or anything. ;)

[Blake's Baby]

Capitalist system. We have to do shit to survive. If the world was a better place, you wouldn't do, but then, you wouldn't need to do it, is the way I see it. Yes, capitalism is shit, but's it's hardly your fault on your own, is it?

[RedHal]

yeah investing his extra money in stocks is "doing shit to survive" in capitalism, too many middle class wankers around here

[#FF0000]

yeah investing his extra money in stocks is "doing shit to survive" in capitalism, too many middle class wankers around here

mfw when are probably the most over privileged cracker fuck on the planet.

[Rooster]

Donate it to revleft.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Unless you are investing large sums, it is only as hypocritical as any other form of saving, I'm sure I'm not the only one with with a high interest savings account. And to be perfectly honest if I knew anything about stocks and shares I'd probably buy some up. I work damn hard for my money and I'm going to make it work for me as much as I possibly can

[Wanted Man]

True proles trying to survive in this harsh world ITT. Yeah, when people ask me whether they should join the union or the communist party and get organised, I always say: "No dude. Just invest your money and make it grow, then go on Revleft to talk about how unions are the left-wing of capital."

[Rjevan]

Some "interesting" views in this thread. I wonder how far you could take them.

MarxSchmarx mentioned the "more lucrative stocks in places like Brazil and China". Obviously he put more thought into this and therefore hesitates more than some of those replying. Kudos for that!
Kinda makes it a farce when people post in outrage and disgust as the crimes of corporations in the "3rd World" are discussed here while they own stocks of these very corporations or their accomplices. Also, you guys realise that your interests as stockholders and your interests as communists will likely clash? But well, capitalism is shit without you aswell and we just do what we have to do... :sleep:

Every human being who is a communist and deposits money with a bank is a hypocrite... There is no qualitative difference between the example above and what MarxSchmarx intended to do.
There is. See what AM posted above you. Just like there is a difference between buying from corporations and investing in them. In the first case you basically have to do it but in the latter case you actively choose to participate in their game.


Ultimately just do what is best for you financially.
That motto leaves you with many options. I think everybody will agree that our activism isn't exactly doing the best for us financially. You could take some very different careers if you decided to kep your opinions to yourself. According to this and the following sentence I could work for the CIA because capitalism won't fall soon anyway and making some cash in the meantime is alright as long as I don't "go full blown bourgeois". And surely a CIA employee is far from being that (what'd be a half blown bourgeois, btw? Petty-bourgeois?).


Yes, capitalism is shit, but's it's hardly your fault on your own, is it?
Same rationale. Where to draw the line? That sentence could be uttered to justify quite a few reactionary actions.


I work damn hard for my money and I'm going to make it work for me as much as I possibly can
Money can't work. Your boss probably says the same. Whenever somebody says they let their money work for them they really mean letting people work for them. Because only people can work.

[Blake's Baby]

No it wasn't redhal that said that capitalism was shit but it wasn't the OP's fault on their own, that was me and redhal disagreed with me.

No, a bank account is an investment. You give money to a bank, the bank lends it to companies or buys shares, the companies who are extracting surplus labour from their workforce pay interest on the loans or share dividends to the banks, the banks pay interest to you. That's were interest comes from, because only people working makes money. This is no different to making investments directly in shares, except you might (unless you just give money to a broker to invest as he thinks fit) get more choices about where your money goes.

If you think otherwise then you don't understand how banking works. If you know that and keep a bank account going you are a hypocrite. Unless you realise that boycotting the bank is actually not going to help anyway, and accept there things that can't change until we abolish capitalism. I don't pretend that some of my money doesn't come from the labour of oithers. In fact, as I'm currently unemployed, all of my money comes from the labour of others. But I don't lie awake at night fretting about the people I'm exploiting because it's not in my power at present to do anything about that exploitation. I'm more likely to lie awake at night worrying about how we can overcome capitalism. You know what? It won't be by me taking my money out of the bank.

[Rjevan]

If you say so. Maybe you could elaborate?

[Blake's Baby]

Elaborate on what?

[Jose Gracchus]

it is hypocritical. i mean, you are taking part in the very economic force that drives imperialism.

but, do what you want. not my money and not in my control.

Tell me, do you tell workers with houses and retirement money that they're "contributing" to imperialism? Do you think you should never do either of the above. Tell me, what use of money do you think is not an "economic force that drives imperialism"?

I'm not saying one should try to buy stocks in the best performing and most exploitative and violent capitalist entities, but I am curious what meaningful relationship people actually think one way or another this has on communist practice.


yeah investing his extra money in stocks is "doing shit to survive" in capitalism, too many middle class wankers around here

Guess any UAW workers here should be thrown out on their ass.

[Thirsty Crow]

Fuck me if I won't organize a revolutionary betting co-operative in teh future. Pooling our resources in, checking for good info, placing a bet. Wham 150% profit and no one with an argument against our moral standards.

[Tablo]

That motto leaves you with many options. I think everybody will agree that our activism isn't exactly doing the best for us financially. You could take some very different careers if you decided to kep your opinions to yourself. According to this and the following sentence I could work for the CIA because capitalism won't fall soon anyway and making some cash in the meantime is alright as long as I don't "go full blown bourgeois". And surely a CIA employee is far from being that (what'd be a half blown bourgeois, btw? Petty-bourgeois?).

I'm not saying he should become a class traitor or anything like that. I'm just saying it isn't a big deal for him to own a couple of stocks. I guess I should have worded that differently? :/

[The Teacher]

Don't these countries have to develop into full blown capitalist economies before they can have any socialist change? That's the theory right?

[Spawn of Stalin]

Money can't work. Your boss probably says the same. Whenever somebody says they let their money work for them they really mean letting people work for them. Because only people can work.
Yeah, I was mostly using the term as a reference to what the OP said. Money can't work, but it can grow, and like I said, buying a few stocks is really no more harmful than having a savings account. Every time you (or your employer) pays money into your account you are investing in capitalism. I'm not about start buying stocks because as I mentioned before, I know very little about that type of thing and would probably end up losing my money, but if I did would it really make me any more reactionary than I already am bearing in mind I already have three banks accounts, a credit card, and a mortgage?

[praxis1966]

So I have a question... I used to work in the public school system in the state of Florida. That state's employees have a privatized retirement fund. In other words, unlike the old days when the state would essentially just pay you a wage directly from the state budget when you retired, they took that money and invested it in mutual funds in a little something those in the business call a 401K plan. We [the workers] were even offered free financial services from a major financial planning firm. Since I contributed to my own retirement fund and that fund was comprised of various stocks and what not, does that make me a hypocrite as well?

Just curious...

[Rusty Shackleford]

Tell me, do you tell workers with houses and retirement money that they're "contributing" to imperialism? Do you think you should never do either of the above. Tell me, what use of money do you think is not an "economic force that drives imperialism"?

I'm not saying one should try to buy stocks in the best performing and most exploitative and violent capitalist entities, but I am curious what meaningful relationship people actually think one way or another this has on communist practice.




Did i not explicitly say that what he did with his money is his choice?

I stated my position. But, i dont go around criticizing people for stocks. I take part in the BDS campaign to get the State retirement funds to divest form Caterpillar for one. thats about as far as i will go with giving a damn.

so, go flame someone else.