North Korea pictures

[Arlekino]

I watched this clip is that can be truth brutality of USA soldiers?
http://krasnoe.tv/node/10286

[Q]

It's called propaganda. But yes, Abu Graib isan example in how American soldiers aren't above warcrimes and abuse. War is were humanity dies first.

[Skammunist]

Those incidents probably weren't as widespread as the video portrays. Again, it's just North Korean propaganda. Not to say is doesn't happen though. Remember the My Lai massacre in Vietnam? That was heavily critisized after it reached the public. I'm sure if these incidents really happened in Korea, they would have been publicised in a lot more media outlets than just the North Korean government.

[Wanted Man]

Apparently US war crimes in Korea and Vietnam were just "incidents" according to the above guy.

[Tim Cornelis]

Such North Korean propaganda can actually work counter productive as the North Korean government is now doing the same thing, many North Koreans may secretly think "the government tells us the US is bad, but they're doing the same, so they are bad as well".

And if you want to know the truth I think reading a history book dealing with it would be more helpful than watching biased propaganda--although it may indeed be true to a certain degree.

[Commie73]

Such North Korean propaganda can actually work counter productive as the North Korean government is now doing the same thing, many North Koreans may secretly think "the government tells us the US is bad, but they're doing the same, so they are bad as well".

And if you want to know the truth I think reading a history book dealing with it would be more helpful than watching biased propaganda--although it may indeed be true to a certain degree.


All history books are biased to an extent. Its why you should read a varity of sources and not just one or two books.

I think from a revolutionary perspective, we should point out the war crimes of the US, but also show how Nkorea is just as bad. Revolutionaries should never take the side of one nation or another.

[Chimurenga.]

I think from a revolutionary perspective, we should point out the war crimes of the US, but also show how Nkorea is just as bad.

Why should revolutionaries join in the bashing campaign of a revolutionary country? That makes no sense at all.

[L.A.P.]

Why should revolutionaries join in the bashing campaign of a revolutionary country? That makes no sense at all.

Probably because it isn't a revolutionary state.

[Triple A]

Why should revolutionaries join in the bashing campaign of a revolutionary country? That makes no sense at all.

NK is revolutionary?
Next you will say Kim Jong Il is communist.

Btw: the video reminds me of children cartoons and must of it is just stupid.

[scarletghoul]

Wow, I'm always amazed at how many people on the left refuse to believe that the US would have engaged in systematic torture etc . Why ?? This is an empire built on genocide, slavery, ethnic cleansing, rape, complete destruction of entire cities..

Some people dismiss the claims of US atrocities in Korea as 'just propaganda' but will never question any of the allegations made against the DPRK .. your unconscious bias is made crystal clear by your practice ..

[Chimurenga.]

Probably because it isn't a revolutionary state.

Actually, it is a revolutionary country. Just because it isn't your ideal revolutionary state, doesn't mean that it's not.

It's amazing that a so-called Leninist doesn't realize this.


NK is revolutionary?
Next you will say Kim Jong Il is communist.

Kim Jong Il is definitely a communist.

I really have to wonder what Revleft's criteria for "revolutionary" and "a communist" is. :laugh:

What a joke.

[Triple A]

Kim Jong Il is definitely a communist.

I really have to wonder what Revleft's criteria for "revolutionary" and "a communist" is. :laugh:

What a joke.

I think Marx didnt write about a totalitarian state where a obese dictator rules over starving people.



Wow, I'm always amazed at how many people on the left refuse to believe that the US would have engaged in systematic torture etc . Why ?? This is an empire built on genocide, slavery, ethnic cleansing, rape, complete destruction of entire cities..

Some people dismiss the claims of US atrocities in Korea as 'just propaganda' but will never question any of the allegations made against the DPRK .. your unconscious bias is made crystal clear by your practice ..

And it works for you either. You refuse to see DPRK as a brutal dicatorship but will be happy to condemn US.

I know US commited torture and assassination, but did you watch the video?
Propaganda clear as water, there is one image where a US soldier is cutting someone's head off with a saw!!? and there is another US soldier laughing.
You believe that?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Actually, it is a revolutionary country. Just because it isn't your ideal revolutionary state, doesn't mean that it's not.

It's amazing that a so-called Leninist doesn't realize this.


That's like saying the United States is revolutionary because at one point in history there was a revolution (considering the history of the DPRK, that might possibly even make them more revolutionary than the DPRK).

It has nothing to do with being an 'ideal' revolutionary state. If ever the KWP and DPRK were socialist and revolutionary, it has long since degenerated, for a myriad of complex reasons it is true, some of which have to do with foreign pressures and a troubled existence in the capitalist world, but nonetheless, degenerated it has.

How is the DPRK revolutionary again? Oh, wait, Marcyites... All that is needed then for proof is a name; Capitalist Party of China are obviously communists because their name says so, and DPRK is obviously revolutionary because they say so, regardless of how they act.

[Chimurenga.]

That's like saying the United States is revolutionary because at one point in history there was a revolution (considering the history of the DPRK, that might possibly even make them more revolutionary than the DPRK).

The Workers Party of Korea defeated the landlord ruling class and defeated the United States and their lackeys in the South. They built a society based on a planned socialist economy and common ownership. They are responsible for giving ordinary Koreans the rights to a decent life where they don't have to worry about being foreclosed upon, never receiving medical treatment when they are sick and/or injured and never receiving a full education (among the other perks that this forum couldn't care less about).

I think this wholly qualifies the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea or North Korea as being a revolutionary workers state.


It has nothing to do with being an 'ideal' revolutionary state. If ever the KWP and DPRK were socialist and revolutionary, it has long since degenerated, for a myriad of complex reasons it is true, some of which have to do with foreign pressures and a troubled existence in the capitalist world, but nonetheless, degenerated it has.

No shit. That's typically what happens when you build a workers state under constant military threat and encirclement. I'm not calling this country heaven on earth.


How is the DPRK revolutionary again? Oh, wait, Marcyites... All that is needed then for proof is a name; Capitalist Party of China are obviously communists because their name says so, and DPRK is obviously revolutionary because they say so, regardless of how they act.

Ah useless slander from you. To be expected, I guess.

The lot of you really are pathetic.

[Chimurenga.]

I think Marx didnt write about a totalitarian state where a obese dictator rules over starving people.

You're just the kind of idiot who believes everyone in the DPRK is starving.



And it works for you either. You refuse to see DPRK as a brutal dicatorship but will be happy to condemn US.

The DPRK is a brutal dictatorship? :laugh:

Are you fucking joking right now? Look at Colombia and Saudi Arabia. Those are brutal dictatorships.

And I will always condemn the United States. Why? Because I am a Communist and an anti-imperialist. The United States is the largest imperialist power on this globe.

I mean, really?

[Rooster]

I really have to wonder what Revleft's criteria for "revolutionary" and "a communist" is.

What is your criteria?

[Chimurenga.]

What is your criteria?

Read my posts above.

[Skammunist]

Apparently US war crimes in Korea and Vietnam were just "incidents" according to the above guy.

It's not like I said they were "isolated incidents" after all. I could have said massacres instead, doesn't make a fucking difference to me. Don't look too much into it.

[Triple A]

You're just the kind of idiot who believes everyone in the DPRK is starving.




The DPRK is a brutal dictatorship? :laugh:

Are you fucking joking right now? Look at Colombia and Saudi Arabia. Those are brutal dictatorships.

And I will always condemn the United States. Why? Because I am a Communist and an anti-imperialist. The United States is the largest imperialist power on this globe.

I mean, really?


Forcing the players that played the football world cup onto labour camps because they didnt win is very communist.

[Rooster]

The Workers Party of Korea defeated the landlord ruling class and defeated the United States and their lackeys in the South. They built a society based on a planned socialist economy and common ownership. They are responsible for giving ordinary Koreans the rights to a decent life where they don't have to worry about being foreclosed upon, never receiving medical treatment when they are sick and/or injured and never receiving a full education (among the other perks that this forum couldn't care less about).

So a worker's state (ie, socialist) equals a state that has petty welfare reforms? :confused: Who owns the means of production? If you say the state, and the state is the people, isn't that just legalistic mumbo jumbo? :confused:

[Chimurenga.]

Forcing the players that played the football world cup onto labour camps because they didnt win is very communist.

You really believe everything you read, don't you?

Fucking wow.

[Triple A]

You really believe everything you read, don't you?

Fucking wow.

It was widely noticed.
And the news I read and pictures of the players in front of a building where they were given a speech. Also had a quote from a north korean who played on the world cup but went to japan and avoided punishments.




BTW: you also believe the food UN sends to DPRK because people are starving there is fake?

[Chimurenga.]

It was widely noticed.
And the news I read and pictures of the players in front of a building where they were given a speech. Also had a quote from a north korean who played on the world cup but went to japan and avoided punishments.

So I guess those same players were let out months later to play the Asian Cup on grounds of "good behavior"? :laugh:

Pathetic.



you also believe the food UN sends to DPRK because people are starving there is fake?

People are not starving in the DPRK, they are malnourished. There is a crystal clear difference. They are malnourished because the arable land and weather doesn't allow for the amount of food needed to be produced there. I believe it is over 5 million tonnes that is needed to fully feed the entire country. Last year, I believe they have reached up to 4.6 million tonnes.

You wouldn't know this because you don't bother to learn anything about the country.

It's not Kim Jong il's fault and it's not the fault of the leadership. There are constant projects aimed at growing more food.

[Triple A]

So I guess those same players were let out months later to play the Asian Cup on grounds of "good behavior"? :laugh:

Pathetic.




People are not starving in the DPRK, they are malnourished. There is a crystal clear difference. They are malnourished because the arable land and weather doesn't allow for the amount of food needed to be produced there. I believe it is over 5 million tonnes that is needed to fully feed the entire country. Last year, I believe they have reached up to 4.6 million tonnes.

You wouldn't know this because you don't bother to learn anything about the country.

It's not Kim Jong il's fault and it's not the fault of the leadership. There are constant projects aimed at growing more food.


A North korean in Japan admited they were punished but never mind.


http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/korea/2011/06/18/306617/6-million.htm

From China post on DPRK famines.

[Chimurenga.]

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/korea/2011/06/18/306617/6-million.htm

From China post on DPRK famines.

So why is there never a comment from a member of the leadership in the DPRK in these articles? It's always some UN member (or some NGO somewhere) who speculates that there is a food crisis. It doesn't mean that that's actually whats happening. Last year, there was the same kind of outcry by someone somewhere despite the clear growth in food production in the country.

[Triple A]

So why is there never a comment from a member of the leadership in the DPRK in these articles? It's always some UN member (or some NGO somewhere) who speculates that there is a food crisis. It doesn't mean that that's actually whats happening. Last year, there was the same kind of outcry by someone somewhere despite the clear growth in food production in the country.

We can agree then:
DPRK is not a brutal dicatorship.
North koreans leave happily and have tons of food.
There is no brainwashing.
There is no repression and labour camps.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

So why is there never a comment from a member of the leadership in the DPRK in these articles? It's always some UN member (or some NGO somewhere) who speculates that there is a food crisis. It doesn't mean that that's actually whats happening. Last year, there was the same kind of outcry by someone somewhere despite the clear growth in food production in the country.

The DPRK has admitted it at various times that it has, from time to time, for obvious material reasons (the Northern half of the Korean peninsula was never food-sufficient prior to 1947 or thereabout, and with the climate and circumstances such as a lack of fertiliser, which has to be bought from China nowadays and limits application - and gives China another handle for getting their way with DPRK - had trouble with food and starvation. Lastly I think not even a year ago they asked for more food relief because of some bad harvests. Not even DPRK denies this, so what are you on about? The material reality denies DPRK reliable food security without reliance on the outside world.


They built a society based on a planned socialist economy and common ownership. They are responsible for giving ordinary Koreans the rights to a decent life where they don't have to worry about being foreclosed upon, never receiving medical treatment when they are sick and/or injured and never receiving a full education (among the other perks that this forum couldn't care less about).

I think this wholly qualifies the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea or North Korea as being a revolutionary workers state.

Social welfare is revolutionary now? The economy is in the shitter, there's no denying this, it is a matter of fact, any pictures will tell you this, everything will tell you this; the factories have intermittent access, if any, to raw materials for processing, in desperate need of renovations and reconstruction, infrastructure is in a horrible state - admittedly, the physical infrastructure such as housing and transport infrastructure is slightly better than the state of that in Cuba - but the isolation has brought great hardships to the DPRK and its population.

The extent to which the DPRK economy is planned in any cohesive regard is also up for discussion.

But do those things qualify it as a revolutionary workers state? I'm not one of those arbitrary anti-Statists, for I tend to agree that any structure that governs/rules/coöperates/whatever structure can be considered a state, and don't apply it like some anarchists might as only being a bourgeois state; but looking at the structure of the DPRK state, how can you possible argue that it is a worker's state? Worn faces under the sun shuffling dirt with spades to prepare the way for a new motorway, six lanes each way, built to the memory of the revolution, and not a car in sight, a wasteful investment if there ever was any, all the while the constant electricity shortages stop trains on the railways for hours every day and dilapidated track quality prevents them driving more than 60km/h.

The KPW is not a workers party. The system of rule in the DPRK is not socialist. I do not deny that complex factors internal and external are responsible for this degeneration, and I do not think that full capitalist restoration at the hands of China or South Korea would benefit the people of the DPRK, but nevertheless, I do not think it is a revolutionary state, and your supposed qualifications for it being a socialist state are so vague that Sweden in the 1960's would have qualified.

[Arlekino]

Thanks for contributed to treat. Well when we don't know for sure how is real life in North Korea and how US army treated Koreans, anyway any war is brutal. Do western media told about Soviet Union how was evil dictatorship but apparently lot of information are far to not truth. I do talk a lot of with western people and they told me horror stories about Soviet Union dictatorship. Even somebody told me "Is like deaths peoples factory", some horrors stories capitalist media like to scare us.

[Leftsolidarity]

Why should revolutionaries join in the bashing campaign of a revolutionary country? That makes no sense at all.

:blushing::lol::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

But to answer the question of the original poster. Yes, I think those things did happen but probably not to the extent that N. Korea claims (that's also not to dismiss the terrible crimes).

[L.A.P.]

Actually, it is a revolutionary country. Just because it isn't your ideal revolutionary state, doesn't mean that it's not.

Actually it isn't, especially since countries are not political entities. Just because you have an incredibly low standard of a revolutionary state does not make it so.


It's amazing that a so-called Leninist doesn't realize this.

It's amazing a so-called Communist doesn't realize this.



Kim Jong Il is definitely a communist.

And the Pope is definitely a Buddhist.


I really have to wonder what Revleft's criteria for "revolutionary" and "a communist" is. :laugh:

I do as well.


What a joke.

I have a joke as well; DPRK being a revolutionary state that has any form of worker's democracy.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Chimurenga.]

blah

Aside from music talk, you're quite useless, it seems.

[El Oso Rojo]

I think Marx didnt write about a totalitarian state where a obese dictator rules over starving people.




And it works for you either. You refuse to see DPRK as a brutal dicatorship but will be happy to condemn US.

I know US commited torture and assassination, but did you watch the video?
Propaganda clear as water, there is one image where a US soldier is cutting someone's head off with a saw!!? and there is another US soldier laughing.
You believe that?

I am new to this site, but just from being on it for one day, it seem the anarchists are contridiction, how can you called yourself Libertarian Socialists, then called for the restriction of another tendency?


I know it is not related the topic.

[El Oso Rojo]

Whatever, one opinion is of the DPRK. It not nice to deny the fact, that the US did that kind of stuff, what kind of revolutionary would

1. blame Immigrants for why there are issue in the movement (knowing damn well, if immigrantion sees them partake in something that challenge the staus quo of that country, they can be deported) (unrelated)

2. Deny Human right abuses by a country, infamous for Human right abuses, in another country, just for the sake of it a country you disagree with.

3. NAZI are animals, but we should not agree with raping civilians, I support the former USSR, but if you really love something and support it, you need to critized, it actions. (unreleted to the topic)

It seem to be a lot of contridictions in this site. especially from the Anarchists

[TrotskyTheGreat]

ugh! i hope you all know that North Korea is a wonderful place full of happy people and unicorns.

But in all reality NK blows, as well as many other Nations in the world. Get over it!

[Queercommie Girl]

Social welfare is revolutionary now?


No, but it's still a major part of it. After all, think about the fact that the majority of ordinary people in the world support the revolution because they believe it can improve their living conditions. Peasants in China supported the 1949 revolution because they got land from the landlords. Most people are naturally pragmatists and don't become socialists because they are attracted to some kind of abstract honourable heroism or have an aesthetic fetish for revolutionary symbolism.

Frankly, I'd rather support a non-revolutionary party with genuinely good social welfare than a "revolutionary" party that has none.

This is just a general point though, the social welfare in North Korea is far from perfect. But objectively speaking on this point alone I wouldn't put North Korea into the same category as China today.

[Queercommie Girl]

NAZI are animals, but we should not agree with raping civilians,


What kind of revolutionary would agree with the mass rape of working class women? :rolleyes:

[Leftsolidarity]

What kind of revolutionary would agree with the mass rape of working class women? :rolleyes:

What kind of revolutionary would agree with the raping of any amount of women from any class?

[Queercommie Girl]

What kind of revolutionary would agree with the raping of any amount of women from any class?

Fair enough, though I wouldn't rule out killing counter-revolutionary women in a war situation. I would kill them just like I would kill counter-revolutionary men in a war situation.

Also, I think one should equally denounce male rape as well, which does happen, for instance in the prisons of some countries, and especially to people who are queer. I certainly would oppose acts of rape against enemy soldiers in a war situation as well, just like I would also oppose torture being used against prisoners of war.

I just don't like discrimination based on gender in general. If I were in a war situation, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger just because my opponent is a woman.

[Leftsolidarity]

Fair enough, though I wouldn't rule out killing counter-revolutionary women in a war situation. I would kill them just like I would kill counter-revolutionary men in a war situation.

Also, I think one should equally denounce male rape as well, which does happen, for instance in the prisons of some countries, and especially to people who are queer.

I just don't like discrimination based on gender in general. If I were in a war situation, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger just because my opponent is a woman.

I would feel weird to say "I don't care about killing a woman" but yeah I agree with what you said.

[Queercommie Girl]

I would feel weird to say "I don't care about killing a woman" but yeah I agree with what you said.

That's because I'm a woman and you are not. :lol:

It only applies in a war situation, otherwise I wouldn't kill anyone.

[bailey_187]

People are not starving in the DPRK, they are malnourished. There is a crystal clear difference. They are malnourished because the arable land and weather doesn't allow for the amount of food needed to be produced there. I believe it is over 5 million tonnes that is needed to fully feed the entire country. Last year, I believe they have reached up to 4.6 million tonnes.

You wouldn't know this because you don't bother to learn anything about the country.

It's not Kim Jong il's fault and it's not the fault of the leadership. There are constant projects aimed at growing more food.

If the DPRK is unable to provide enough food due to lack of arable land and weather, why is one of the pillars of the official DPRK ideology "self-reliance"?

Who is to blame for the situation in ur opinion, and how exactly? Isit just stroke of luck that N Korea lacks arable land? Is the USA someone causing this?

[scarletghoul]

Propaganda clear as water, there is one image where a US soldier is cutting someone's head off with a saw!!? and there is another US soldier laughing.
You believe that?Yes. They are sadistic fucks.
http://bellaciao.org/en/local/cache-vignettes/L220xH509/prigionierijf2d2-bd579.jpg
http://gobloglog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/eremy-Morlock-United-States-soldiers-300x150.jpg

[Ocean Seal]

A lot of people have missed the point. The video may perhaps be an exaggeration, but it is based in truth and I think that anyone who can see the war crimes of the Americans knows that.

[Chimurenga.]

Who is to blame for the situation in ur opinion, and how exactly? Isit just stroke of luck that N Korea lacks arable land? Is the USA someone causing this?

"Stroke of luck" is far from the term that I'd use. I think the US further exacerbates the problems of the DPRK by way of sanctions and military threat from the South and Japan. This should be obvious.

[Ocean Seal]

"Stroke of luck" is far from the term that I'd use. I think the US further exacerbates the problems of the DPRK by way of sanctions and military threat from the South and Japan. This should be obvious.
Agreed but that's no excuse for the DPRK's massive military buildup, not trading with capitalist nations on principle, and the subjugation of workers by the military elite.

[bailey_187]

can u please explain which sanctions, and how specificaly, they cause food shortages in the DPRK. srs question

[scarletghoul]

Agreed but that's no excuse for the DPRK's massive military buildup, not trading with capitalist nations on principle, and the subjugation of workers by the military elite.
Uhm I'm pretty sure North Korea didn't request the blockade .. and military buildup is understandable if there's 10,000s of soldiers from the most powerful country in the world based in the other half of your country, ready to attack at any time. I criticise Kim for the part of Songun which names the military as the leader of the revolution instead of the proletariat, as that is revisionist, but it is wrong to think that the DPRK's policies are just the doing of some poor reasoning and that the DPRK is deliberately isolating itself from the west and making nukes just for fun

[Ocean Seal]

can u please explain which sanctions, and how specificaly, they cause food shortages in the DPRK. srs question
The fall of the Soviet Union began to cause the food shortages which began in the DPRK around 1992 or 1994 I forget which one. It wasn't really so much the sanctions but the DPRK refusing to trade with capitalist nations even when there was no alternative.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

No, but it's still a major part of it. After all, think about the fact that the majority of ordinary people in the world support the revolution because they believe it can improve their living conditions. Peasants in China supported the 1949 revolution because they got land from the landlords. Most people are naturally pragmatists and don't become socialists because they are attracted to some kind of abstract honourable heroism or have an aesthetic fetish for revolutionary symbolism.

Frankly, I'd rather support a non-revolutionary party with genuinely good social welfare than a "revolutionary" party that has none.

This is just a general point though, the social welfare in North Korea is far from perfect. But objectively speaking on this point alone I wouldn't put North Korea into the same category as China today.

I do agree that social welfare is a good thing, I was just suggesting it was not something that made it revolutionary.

I also agree that DPRK is not directly comparable to China, which is in a capitalist transformation that has gone quite far; much further than in DPRK, whose degeneration is of definately is of a different quality and has retained more positive aspects than has China.

The fall of the Soviet Union began to cause the food shortages which began in the DPRK around 1992 or 1994 I forget which one. It wasn't really so much the sanctions but the DPRK refusing to trade with capitalist nations even when there was no alternative.

It is not only that they are refusing to trade however, I think. Many countries embargo them, which kind of has forced a reaction that can be thought of as a more serious parallel to an incident where someone doesn't want to give another person something they need or want, and the other person says, "well, I don't want it anyway".

The Soviet Union provided subsidised food and fertiliser, which now has to be bought from China. It is quite costly to the DPRK. DPRK was forced to go to quite some lengths in complying with the Chinese trade and political delegation's suggestions in the last two years simply to fund a major housing construction programme (100,000 new flats in Pyongyang) and get the resources necessary to execute it.

The Soviet Union, however, was also partially responsible for the economic trouble of the DPRK which persists to this day. In the 1970's, the economy was growing fast and was far superior to the inferior and perhaps in some regards even semi-feudal economy of the South, but too much of the DPRK expansion was funded by loans form the Soviets. By 1976 the DPRK had accumulated a troublesome debt, which they had to pay an increasing interest on. It was at around this time that the DPRK economy begun to first stagnate and then crumble and physical infrastructure fell into disrepair. I think the trouble with the debt and loans contributed a large part to the rise of the isolationist- and self-reliance stance.

[Leftsolidarity]

Agreed but that's no excuse for the DPRK's massive military buildup

I don't like the DPRK but I think you are wrong on this. I had to do a debate on this topic a few months back.

Military build up on the side of the DPRK is completely understandable since the world's strongest countries have amassed an even more massive military build up on the other side. ROK and the USA could crush the DPRK like a bug and I've seen some pro-DPRK and some pro-USA people try to argue that but just go look at the numbers. Now if China suddenly started to use Canada as a military base and sent tons of troops and equipment to sit right on our border I think our reaction would be the same as the DPRK's.

[L.A.P.]

I think I can agree with a lot of what the pro-DPRK M-Ls are saying about North Korea and the reasons why it turned out the way it did. However, even though a lot of the circumstances and justification of North Korea are valid, it still doesn't mean DPRK is a revolutionary state. Of course you can blame a lot of it on the United States and Western imperialism in regards to why the DPRK has a military government and the worker's aren't the ruling class. But the fact is that it's not a revolutionary state, and the because the United States and the West are to blame for a lot of it doesn't change that fact. It's honestly just sad that North Korea is the way it is today due to the isolation it has faced while trying to keep up, and don't get me wrong, there were many flaws in the Korean Worker's Party and Kim Il-Sung's method of socialism. It was kind of doomed from the beginning, which is why I could understand the Soviet Union's limited support, even though it was a dick move and the SU kind of screwed them over. The first mistake was to blame on the Soviet Union though, the KWP was put into power by the Soviet Civil Authority without much revolutionary struggle and then the Korean War hits them. North Korea is just an example of socialism when it completely collapses into failure, it's a failed state trying to reconstruct itself. If the North Korean state finally reconstructs itself it's probably just going to be a social democracy at best unless the West finally breaks them down.



Aside from music talk, you're quite useless, it seems.

Nice cheap shot, you're not useless at all.

[AmericanCommie421]

I'm sure some American soldiers commited atrocities, but it's not like the DPRK is the most reliable source for information regarding the US

[Ismail]

To quote a post I once made in another thread on military spending:

The military budget argument is one of the weakest IMO. The amount the DPRK spends on its military certainly is huge, but it's also highly relative.

As has been noted elsewhere (http://sites.google.com/site/nzdprksociety/commentary/the-dprk-is-not-a-strong-military-power-by-hazel-smith--professor-of-international-relations--warick-university), "The DPRK annual defence budget is dwarfed by that of its neighbours at US$2 billion in 2005 compared with Japan’s US$45 billion and South Korea’s US$21 billion. In addition, per capita spending on its huge armed forces has to cover food, clothing, housing and health supplies as well as every aspect of what would normally come from a civilian infrastructure in a developed state – telecommunications, transport, food supplies and agricultural production. This is because the social infrastructure barely functions and the civilian industrial fabric has all but disappeared since the economic meltdown of the 1980s." The US military budget is something like over $650 billion.This doesn't mean that "Songun" is a wonderful policy or that the DPRK is a mighty socialist fortress, but unless the DPRK has a whole bunch of nuclear weapons it could use as a deterrent, there's not much that can be done. The correct policy is to call for the withdrawal of US forces from South Korea and to denounce South Korea's banning of "subversive" groups and literature.

See for instance the following: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2029378,00.html

In the South Korean army, some writings of the American leftist Noam Chomsky are, literally, forbidden. Last week, South Korea's constitutional court upheld a controversial ban on 23 books that service members, under military regulations, cannot read or keep on bases.And: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/southkorea/7953490/South-Korea-attempts-to-ban-North-Korea-Twitter-feed.html

The North has used its Twitter feed, opened under the name @uriminzok (https://twitter.com/uriminzok), to post links to stinging anti-Seoul and anti-US statements on its Uriminzokkiri website (www.uriminzokkiri.com (http://www.uriminzokkiri.com)).

Seoul has already blocked access to the Uriminzokkiri site, but Pyongyang has started putting different addresses on its Twitter page, which has attracted more than 8,600 followers, so users can bypass the block.

The communist state has even put programmes on the Uriminzokkiri homepage which users can download to help them break the block and enter the site, which is Pyongyang’s official Internet mouthpiece.In addition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_%28South_Korea%29


For instance, in 1998, Mr. Ha Young-Joon (하영준), a graduate student at Hanyang University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanyang_University) formerly active with the International Socialists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Socialists) movement, was tried and sentenced to 8 months in prison for having summarized and made available online Chris Harman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Harman) and Alex Callinicos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Callinicos)'s main writings on South Korea's national BBS network (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Korean_BBS&action=edit&redlink=1), in violation of NSA Article 7 Clauses 1 and 5.So yeah, even some Trotskyists have been attacked by this law.

[t.shonku]

Apparently US war crimes in Korea and Vietnam were just "incidents" according to the above guy.


Well said !

People should go to You Tube and watch the documentary called "Indo-China War" vol 2 , there are some graphic and disturbing videos so be warned it's not for feeble hearted . Also contains testimony of some of the victims

[Hebrew Hammer]

Wow, I'm always amazed at how many people on the left refuse to believe that the US would have engaged in systematic torture etc . Why ?? This is an empire built on genocide, slavery, ethnic cleansing, rape, complete destruction of entire cities..

Some people dismiss the claims of US atrocities in Korea as 'just propaganda' but will never question any of the allegations made against the DPRK .. your unconscious bias is made crystal clear by your practice ..

^This.

[RichardAWilson]

It’s true that the United States is the foundation of modern imperialism and we are a nation that was founded on racism, sexism, oppression and murder. We are a nation founded by self-interested rich slave owning white men.

Furthermore, it’s true that, as an Imperial State: We are responsible for war crimes and atrocities. America has overthrown democratic leaderships in Latin America and the Islamic World to install pro-American tyrants and dictators.

With that said: North Korea is nothing close to a Marxian Revolutionary State. It is a nation founded on isolation and so-called bureaucratic centralism (N. Korea does not practice democratic centralism and neither did Stalin‘s Russia). It is a nation that still used Public Executions. It’s a nation where religion is restricted. It is a nation where social and financial inequalities have remained.

[Ismail]

It’s a nation where religion is restricted.Depends on what you mean. There are a few churches and Buddhist temples in the DPRK along with state-run religious organizations. The only country to totally outlaw religious worship, both public and private, was Albania. Every other state (except East Germany, which had a "Christian Socialist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democratic_Union_%28East_Germany%29)" party alongside the ruling SEP) pretty much "restricted" public religious worship to a few areas and made sure it was completely apolitical.

The DPRK does seem to distrust religion a fair bit more than the USSR did, but still.

[flobdob]

If the DPRK is unable to provide enough food due to lack of arable land and weather, why is one of the pillars of the official DPRK ideology "self-reliance"?

Who is to blame for the situation in ur opinion, and how exactly? Isit just stroke of luck that N Korea lacks arable land? Is the USA someone causing this?

The most obvious basis for the lack of arable land is the partition of Korea created by US imperialism along the 38th parallel. It's well known that 80% of the DPRK's land is mountainous, non-arable land; in contrast, the south of Korea has flatter terrain with earth more suited to agriculture, aided by naturally irrigated fields. One of the major problems faced by the DPRK in the 1940s was this very issue - the natural differences between halves of the country meant that the south accounted for as much as 75% of the country's paddy, and many fields produced 2/3 crops a year. A major role of the reunification strategy of the DPRK is precisely to ensure food sovereignty - it is one area that they have always had problems with.

However, that's not to say they haven't consciously done a lot to improve agriculture. One of the first reforms implemented after liberation from Japanese colonialism was an extensive land reform program, initiated by the "3-7 system", and culminating in the March 5 1946 agrarian reform decree, confiscating land owned by the Japanese and pro-Japanese collaborators, land held by Korean landlords. 44000 landlords were expropriated this way. A number of subsequent reforms occured - interspersed by the Korean war - which developed into the cooperatisation movement, the collectivisation movement and so on, to build towards a socialist agricultural sector. This was obviously impacted by the development of heavy industry in the socialist industrial sector, which assisted the "technical revolution" in agriculture by mechanizing and developing the means of production there. The revolutionisation of agriculture there did lead to a situation of self-sufficiency by 1960 - the average gross agricultural product was 10% for 1954-60 and 6.3% for 1961-70. By 1974 average per-chongbo rice yield reached 5.9 tons, making the yield of the DPRK highest on the Asian mainland.

Subsequently there have been major problems caused by the collapse of the socialist bloc and the hostilities of US imperialism. The collapse of the USSR led to a situation where the DPRK lost the majority of it's trading partners; 71.4% of trade was lost, alongside nearly all of it's oil. Agriculture faced this pretty badly; high cereal yields required imported fertiliser, and favourable terms of trade with the USSR greatly assisted in getting this. The effect on cereal production is pretty well demonstrated by information from the FAO:

http://sites.google.com/site/nzdprksociety/_/rsrc/1233522443320/commentary/dprk-economy---food-production/Fert%20%26%20cereal%20Prod.png

The situation was compounded by a series of natural disasters, leading to a period the Koreans call the "Arduous March"; comparisons can be drawn with the Special Period in Cuba here to get an idea of what it was like, though in ways the Koreans faced a worse situation. As in Cuba, sanctions against the DPRK by the US intensified the situation. Since 3 days into the Korean war, the US enacted a 100% blockade on the DPRK, including limits on the export of goods and services, prohibition of most foreign aid and agricultural sales, blocking of any loan or funding through international financial institutions, prohibition on certain commercial banking transactions, etc. Over recent decades we've seen an intensified effort to shore up the sanctions by freezing DPRK assets, with US presidents like George W Bush “determined to squeeze North Korea with every financial sanction possible”. On top of these place the military aggression of the US and ROK against the DPRK, and you see the situation the DPRK faces. Let's not leave these elephants out of the room when talking about the DPRK.

To try and resolve this problems - the requirement of obtaining food imports with a collapsed economy in a hostile world - the DPRK adopted a strategy of trying to obtain food aid from multiple sources. However, these have often been used as a political weapon by US imperialism and the ROK against the DPRK; for example, when the DPRK test-fired missiles in 2006, the ROK announced plans to eliminate the 500000 tonnes of food aid it provides to the DPRK. Similarly President Bush cut off all food aid to the DPRK in 2005. These issues have certainly affected the DPRK in untold ways, and are textbook examples of the way that imperialism tries to destroy countries that challenge it.

Despite this, the DPRK has made conscious attempts to rectify the situation and limit all negative impacts caused by the food problems. Efficiency programs and such have attempted to ensure that what they have is not wasted. Similarly, economic conditions in the DPRK have improved since the arduous march, alleviating problems somewhat.

The key issue this raises for socialists in an imperialist country is not to flagrantly attack the DPRK about Juche, Kim Jong Il or what have you. It is to challenge our own imperialisms - which created the adverse situation for the DPRK in the first place by the division of Korea, and cement it with sanctions and provocations in subsequent years. It's been more than 60 years since the Korean war, and still there has been no peace from imperialism against the Korean people. Instead of attacking the DPRK, you should be pointing your finger where the problems come from - imperialism.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Yes. They are sadistic fucks.

Not only is this blatantly false, but its horribly offensive. The average US soldier isn't a "sadistic fuck", but a well-intentioned individual who has been tricked into fighting an unjust war. Not only that, but calling US soldiers "sadistic fucks" probably isn't going to win us too many supporters...

[AmericanCommie421]

It's probably true since the DPRK's government is known for it's world renowned, unbiased reporting. But in all seriousness I'm sure some American soldiers may have commited attrocities of some kind or another during the Korean War, but I doubt they were as wide spread and/or as drastic as these images portray. I'd say It's just anti-american DPRK propaganda.

[∞]

Not only is this blatantly false, but its horribly offensive. The average US soldier isn't a "sadistic fuck", but a well-intentioned individual who has been tricked into fighting an unjust war. Not only that, but calling US soldiers "sadistic fucks" probably isn't going to win us too many supporters...

That doesn't render the paintings false. Because there is still soldiers who partaken in ruthless actions. Even if its a small portion of US soldiers.