"Well if You Don't Like Americuh go Move to..."

[MattShizzle]

Posting this here so the sort of idiots who say this can respond. For those of us living in the US we hear this a lot from stupid people - it's usually to some horrible country like Afghanistan or Pakistan (it used to be Russia during the cold war, though.) Ever think maybe we don't want to live in some hellhole but would like to live somewhere where people are treated fairly? And most of W Europe, Australia, Canada, etc isn't anywhere near perfect but is still WAY better than the US is now...

[NewLeft]

By 2014, you'll be able to take Canada off that list.

[Die Rote Fahne]

By 2014, you'll be able to take Canada off that list.
Then 2015, when the left get`s into government, we will be back on that list.

[NewLeft]

Then 2015, when the left get`s into government, we will be back on that list.

If by 'left' you mean the NDP, then they'd probably move far enough to the right to be the new liberals. I love tax cutting Jack!

[ComradeMan]

With this kind of "debater" the argument usually comes down to things like this:-

1) We saved your asses in WWII

2) We own everything including your asses

3) We could nuke your asses tomorrow

:rolleyes:

[Franz Fanonipants]

some horrible country like Afghanistan or Pakistan


some horrible country like Afghanistan or Pakistan


some horrible country like Afghanistan or Pakistan

can't we restrict this fuckstick yet?

[Franz Fanonipants]

With this kind of "debater" the argument usually comes down to things like this:-

1) We saved your asses in WWII

2) We own everything including your asses

3) We could nuke your asses tomorrow

:rolleyes:

here's a hint revleft posters: stop hanging out w/carlos mencia

[Obs]

can't we restrict this fuckstick yet?
Afghanistan and Pakistan both have appalling living standards and very little in the way of personal freedom. I don't think he was talking about Afghans and Pakistanis being horrible people.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Afghanistan and Pakistan both have appalling living standards and very little in the way of personal freedom. I don't think he was talking about Afghans and Pakistanis being horrible people.

poverty and underdevelopment - a manifest horror.

p.s. fucking lol "personal freedom"

[Obs]

poverty and underdevelopment - a manifest horror.

p.s. fucking lol "personal freedom"
Are you on drugs?

[Franz Fanonipants]

Are you on drugs?

that would be counterrevolutionary comrade

[Obs]

Oh you're just insane nvm.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Oh you're just insane nvm.

j/k bro 420

[Ocean Seal]

Best way to debate these people hit them where it hurts. In their nationalism. Consider what they thought about the American revolution. Tell them why didn't the colonists just move somewhere else if they didn't like British rule. Or just show them how silly they are with the love it or leave it crap. For example, would you have done nothing in Nazi Germany and merely moved to the Soviet Union or the United States? Because you don't deserve to live there if you're not a German patriot, no? Thank you very much for the offer of leaving this country but I would rather not cede an inch to reactionaries like you and allow you to continue oppression in this country without a fight.
Also when they tell you that a given country is a shithole just remind them that they are that way because of American and NATO imperialism.

[Dean]

Posting this here so the sort of idiots who say this can respond. For those of us living in the US we hear this a lot from stupid people - it's usually to some horrible country like Afghanistan or Pakistan (it used to be Russia during the cold war, though.) Ever think maybe we don't want to live in some hellhole but would like to live somewhere where people are treated fairly? And most of W Europe, Australia, Canada, etc isn't anywhere near perfect but is still WAY better than the US is now...

I find these euro-phile arguments quite disturbing. European nations are prosperous (and therefore have a greater tendency toward socialist/egalitarian social systems) precisely because of imperialism and international exploitation of workers. Europe has historically been the hotbed of this control system, though the US has superseded since WWII. Japan and to a lesser extent China have been the yoke of a similar system of exploitation before the West really beat them down with predatory inflation and other economic terror. And this was mostly European activities until WWII.

The whole notion of the US being worse than any other x is rather absurd. It's just a part of an historical system.

[Ele'ill]

My response is usually "If you don't like this conversation go find another classroom/room/house/street corner/ etc.

[Drosophila]

If you don't like America, then get out.

If you don't like your curtains, abandon your house.

[ComradeMan]

If you don't like America, then get out.

If you don't like your curtains, abandon your house.

If you don't like taxation without representation go to Mexico. :rolleyes:

[xub3rn00dlex]

Funny because anytime politics is brought up in my house, my dad usually devolves the conversation into useless shit like this. Usually it ends one of three ways:

1) When you become independent and graduate and get a real job, you'll become a capitalist because you'll understand why socialism doesn't work. ( I assume he is talking about taxes and/or welfare. )

2) You have hay/rock/[insert blunt object] in your skull.

3) Well if you think socialism is so great then why don't you save your money and go to :
China
Cuba
Venezuela
ETC

[Jimmie Higgins]

Good ones Mari3L and Dan74

"if you don't like it here, then why don't you leave?"

A) Because I'm not running and hiding, I'm staying and fighting

B) I'm not an accommodating house-slave who makes excuses for my master and tells other people to take it or shut up about it... like some people I know.

C) Because Jesus has appointed me to do this work on earth

Seriously, if you get the "love it or leave it" line, there's not much to debate because they are basically saying "shut the fuck up". So it's only worth responding if there are other people overhearing the exchange - then stick up for yourself in the face of radical-baiting otherwise it will just re-enforce to those hearing the conversation that radical ideas is something that needs to be kept in the closet because people will yell at you on the street.

[Die Rote Fahne]

If by 'left' you mean the NDP, then they'd probably move far enough to the right to be the new liberals. I love tax cutting Jack!
The NDP may be social democrats, but they will never be the moderate liberal party.

[Pretty Flaco]

i dont leave cuz i dont got $

[MattShizzle]

I'm getting into it now on facebook with some dumb woman (I think she's a member of Stormfront btw) who uses this and keeps getting on me not working due to being disabled rather than addressing the issues. One of her biggest themes is pretty muich "dammit Aericuh did nothing wrong invading Iraq and bombing Libya cause of 9/11."
:rolleyes:

Also, as typical of those sorts there are tons of spelling and grammar errors. She also says anyone who gets any government money (welfare, WIC [women, infants and children], unemployment or disability) is just "lazy and doesn't want to work."
:rolleyes:

[xub3rn00dlex]

Also, as typical of those sorts there are tons of spelling and grammar errors. She also says anyone who gets any government money (welfare, WIC [women, infants and children], unemployment or disability) is just "lazy and doesn't want to work."
:rolleyes:

Those damn Americans and their tax returns! Bunch of lazy bastards! :)

[MattShizzle]

Well, that's just getting the money the government done stole from them to support them lazy fuckers back!

[Rusty Shackleford]

At a protest at the capitol:


some asshat: "Che's dead, get over it"

me: "The founding fathers are dead, get over it"

[MattShizzle]

Well, before I go to bed she told me if I was a "real man" I'd be over fighting in Iraq. I pointed out besides the disabilities I get SS for I'm also an insulin depnedant diabetic so the military wouldn't take me and even if that were not the case I wouldn't support imperialism. She just said "well I know plenty of diabetics who go to work every day and you just hate america and should leave." Some people are hopeless.

[MattShizzle]

She also refused to address my points when I pointed out none of the hijackers were from Iraq or Libya - and in fact most were from Saudi Arabia and the US neither bombed or invaded them. Or when I pasted most of Red Brother's post last page. It's also on a page called "Fuck America" so why is she even there?

[MattShizzle]

Oh yeah, she also said I was lying when I posted I was 27 then when she said I was probably 8 on 9/11/2001. My profile has said I was born on 1/8/1974 since I registered on facebook. She went off and posted in all caps I changed it and was born in the 80s when I pointed this out. Of course even if someone was born in the 80s they weren't 8 but were between 11 and 21 on 9/11/2001. This person is clearly not very intelligent. Typical reactionary.

[camus11]

I hate I when I get the "if you don't like America, so leave it!" line when discussing issues on Facebook. It's exclusionary and binary like Bush's "If you are not with us you are with the terrorists" mentality which has spawned many injustices in the name of security. It's like the patriots cannot see past their blindness to American war crimes and injustices committed overseas and here at home.

[MattShizzle]

Damn, now she posted that Mel Gibson is a "real man" and she agreed with everything he said and wished he hadn't apologized. I asked "so you hate Jews, too?" She admitted she did.

[freya4]

The whole "if you don't love it, get out" argument, if you can really even call that an argument, makes no sense whatsoever. Imagine if that was the attitude taken throughout history. There would have been no progress at all. The idea is to change the way things work, not just accept the current conditions and try to silence the people who point out its inherit flaws. According to that logic, I should have moved to Mars a long time ago.

[OhYesIdid]

The whole "if you don't love it, get out" argument, if you can really even call that an argument, makes no sense whatsoever. Imagine if that was the attitude taken throughout history. There would have been no progress at all. The idea is to change the way things work, not just accept the current conditions and try to silence the people who point out its inherit flaws. According to that logic, I should have moved to Mars a long time ago.

Damn right. It is interesting, though, to think about how committed these people are to their nations: would they move if their town came under socialist/anarchist/whatevz control? If they did, then they're not really patriotic; If they didn't, then their point is moot.

[MattShizzle]

Haha good point! Imagine how these right wing types would shit their pants if the US did become Communist!
BTW ever notice how many of these trolls don't get the difference between "your" and "you're" and such?

[727Goon]

p.s. fucking lol "personal freedom"


http://webservice.imagesauce.net/image/971/400x.jpg

[ZeroNowhere]

It's funny, because the general principle behind American foreign policy is, 'If you don't like it, take it over.'

[Catmatic Leftist]

MattShizzle, this girl is a TROLL and a BRICK WALL, this is where you stop trying to make a case, because she is just a lost cause. Nothing you say will get through to her. If there is an audience, though, you might want to stand up.

[MattShizzle]

There was an audience - but it was the group and they all took the same side as me (You figure most people who would join a group called "Fuck America" wouldn't take her side!) She even threatened to contact peoples' employers and threated to come to my house with a gun or send her godson who is in the Army in Iraq (which I reported to fb as a threat.) Not that she could find out where I live.

[Johnny Kerosene]

BTW ever notice how many of these trolls don't get the difference between "your" and "you're" and such?

Have you ever noticed how many RevLeft users and college graduates get those two confused? Shit, I was watching TV once and in the corner it said "Your watching whateverthatshowwascalled." While stormfronters may be stupid, that's actually, and unfortunately, an all too common mistake to say that any one group is less intelligent than another based solely on whether or not they know when to use which homophone. I do agree though, people on stormfront are usually stupid as fuck.

[MattShizzle]

She admitted to being a stormfront member but then claimed she cannot possibly be racist because she's actually half black - then changed it to say "well, it's really more like an 8th and nonbody can tell by looking at me - and I'm really hot by the way." I think she may actually be seriously mentally ill at this point (not using as a slur - I suffer from Aspergers Syndrome and Major Depression. I mean it seriously based on the things she said.)

[ComradeMan]

She admitted to being a stormfront member but then claimed she cannot possibly be racist because she's actually half black - then changed it to say "well, it's really more like an 8th and nonbody can tell by looking at me - and I'm really hot by the way." I think she may actually be seriously mentally ill at this point (not using as a slur - I suffer from Aspergers Syndrome and Major Depression. I mean it seriously based on the things she said.)

The world is full of weird people and the internet seems to attract the wierdest of the wierd at time... don't waste your energy and never expect more from a dog than a bark...

[Drosophila]

If you don't like america, then you can git out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0OqHr3wHQ)

[MattShizzle]

I finally just ignored her. She admitted Adolph Hitler is her hero and ranted how if he was still around I'd be dead because he "hated traitors and weak people." If she wasn't lying about being part African-American (which she probably was) she would be too. Someone like that isn't worth wasting your time on. In fact they are a help by making the other side look so bad.

[MattShizzle]

Admitting to admiring Hitler tends to turn off even most Reactionaries.

[ColonelCossack]

between "your" and "you're" and such?
I use ;your' instead of 'you're' on internet forums sometimes because it quicker... which is why I just used 'its' instead of 'it's'.

[Pretty Flaco]

Admitting to admiring Hitler tends to turn off even most Reactionaries.

As does admitting to admiring Josef Stalin ;)

[tachosomoza]

With this kind of "debater" the argument usually comes down to things like this:-

1) We saved your asses in WWII

2) We own everything including your asses

3) We could nuke your asses tomorrow

:rolleyes:

And then a black or Japanese American can say that they were treated better by the English and French and Italians in WWII than they were by their own countrymen back home. A lot of minority troops who went to Europe stayed there after the war was over. There's stories of black men being hanged from trees whilst still in uniform.

[MattShizzle]

Well, now there I lost a friend I had since HS over this sort of thing for pointing out the US is not the best place to live if you aren't rich and the truly bad countries to live in are that way mainly due to imperialism. And calling his other friends idiots for using the "well if communism is so good how come the USSR isn't around anymore?" thing.

[Jose Gracchus]

Don't talk to your classmates about communist politics. Just no. Communism isn't getting advanced the same way Mormonism is. Your co-workers, maybe somewhat better. But don't come off as a preachy holier-than-thou proselytizing douchebag.

[tachosomoza]

Don't talk to your classmates about communist politics. Just no. Communism isn't getting advanced the same way Mormonism is. Your co-workers, maybe somewhat better. But don't come off as a preachy holier-than-thou proselytizing douchebag.

At the high school I went to, talking about Communism got you an ass kicking. We were just coming out of the Cold War, and people were (and are) still very much afraid.

[MattShizzle]

I graduated HS in 1992 so it's not like we're still kids btw. I started off just with the "maybe the US isn't the best place to live" stuff but one who claimed to be a Socialist said me calling the guy who was all racist and anti-worker a fascist was like them "calling us communist" so I said "well, guess what? I AM a Communist!"

[MattShizzle]

Funny thing is the HS friend is Puerto Rican so might be annoyed by the racism, but sadly has been in the US Army for years so is likely not open to leftism. I was hoping to ease him into it until the real reactionaries came in. He started by posting the US pledge of allegiance and I tried pointing out how it is religiously intolerant and how Nationalism is not a good thing but it was for naught it seems. :crying:

[Nial Fossjet]

Israel, if they were to one day magically solve the ethnic/religious issues, is pretty socialist isn't it? Like almost Scandinavian level?

[Die Rote Fahne]

israel, if they were to one day magically solve the ethnic/religious issues, is pretty socialist isn't it? Like almost scandinavian level?

social democracy =/= socialism

[Pretty Flaco]

social democracy =/= socialism

Certainly true, but I'd rather have some benefits than none.

[Dumb]

Funny because anytime politics is brought up in my house, my dad usually devolves the conversation into useless shit like this. Usually it ends one of three ways:

1) When you become independent and graduate and get a real job, you'll become a capitalist because you'll understand why socialism doesn't work. ( I assume he is talking about taxes and/or welfare. )

This argument always cracks me up, since it was becoming independent, graduating and getting a real job that made me open to radical politics in the first place.

[RGacky3]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xub3rn00dlex http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2146526#post2146526)
Funny because anytime politics is brought up in my house, my dad usually devolves the conversation into useless shit like this. Usually it ends one of three ways:

1) When you become independent and graduate and get a real job, you'll become a capitalist because you'll understand why socialism doesn't work. ( I assume he is talking about taxes and/or welfare. )
This argument always cracks me up, since it was becoming independent, graduating and getting a real job that made me open to radical politics in the first place.


Its absolutely right, the more I'm in Capitalism the more I realize its a ponzy scheme.