Just A Heads Up

[Hebrew Hammer]

So, something crossed my head just now, the group I started for Jewish leftists on here probably will never be found in a casual search considering I gave it some silly name. But, indeed, I started a group similar to the Muslim and Christian groups but for Jews, the Nudist Kibbutz. Just making people aware of this, that's is all.

Nudist Kibbutz (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=737)

[Hebrew Hammer]

So, this is it? You're shitting me, this is the Jewish Communist conspiracy? It consists of just me? Fucking bollox.

[Dumb]

I converted a year ago. May I join?

[Rusty Shackleford]

So, this is it? You're shitting me, this is the Jewish Communist conspiracy? It consists of just me? Fucking bollox.
The jewish conspiracy is a vast one. :lol:

[Sasha]

i'll join you, but a. i never posts in groups and b. i'm not much of a jew, like my grandpa used to joke "we got shot for being communists way before they considered gassing us for being jews" (although i must say that must be as typical an example of jewish grim humor as you can get)

[Hebrew Hammer]

I converted a year ago. May I join?

Fo rizzle? If so, why? Might I ask, also, did you convert via orthodoxy or reform?


The jewish conspiracy is a vast one. :lol:

Obviously, we're all up in dis b like a tamponz.


i'll join you, but a. i never posts in groups and b. i'm not much of a jew, like my grandpa used to joke "we got shot for being communists way before they considered gassing us for being jews" (although i must say that must be as typical an example of jewish grim humor as you can get)

Originally, I thought about just making a group for Jews whom were frum and having it be some kind of religious group for us like the Christians and Muslims have but I think I will extend it to all Jews, frum, frum-ish, secular and it can be about religious topics, israel, Zionism, Jewish history, Jewish history in the worker's movement, leftist politics, etc. basically the Jewish experince within general leftism. Also, I do like that joke alot, lol.

[RedRise]

I am not officially Jewish (although my father was) but I am going through a conversion process (Reform). I'll join if that's accepted.
BTW, might I ask if you're Reform or Orthodox? Just out of curiosity.

[ComradeMan]

I don't think RevLeft should have any groups for which one has to request membership based on religious background.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I am not officially Jewish (although my father was) but I am going through a conversion process (Reform). I'll join if that's accepted.

Sure, this isn't Israel. ;)


BTW, might I ask if you're Reform or Orthodox? Just out of curiosity.

Orthodox and when I say that I mean, I wear tzitzit, kippah, keep shabbat, pray 3 times daily, etc. whole 9. I'm also Sephardi.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I don't think RevLeft should have any groups for which one has to request membership based on religious background.

Blah blah blah.

[ComradeMan]

Blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah what exactly?

Answer the point- this is RevLeft, in those halcyon days when I made groups there was no "eligibility" dimension. FYI "I" founded the Against Anti-Semitism Group ;)

[Thirsty Crow]

Why would I, a communist and an opponent of any kind of discrimination (except for discrimination based on ownership of the means of production :D), be barred from participating in discussions about Judaism, Jewish history and political history, etc.?

[Hebrew Hammer]

Why would I, a communist and an opponent of any kind of discrimination (except for discrimination based on ownership of the means of production :D), be barred from participating in discussions about Judaism, Jewish history and political history, etc.?

Fine, I will adress ComradeMan and yours point if you really feel I must. Goyim upset because they can't be in the Jew club? I don't really have a problem necessarily with allowing goyim to be in the group, it's just private because I want control over whom I chose to accept and whom I don't. There are other private groups out there, I have requested to join the Hands off Libya group and haven't been accepted yet. As long as people are respectful and stick to the basic aims of the group, I have no problems with this. I just created the groups mainly for yids, dig?

[ComradeMan]

because I want control over whom I chose to accept and whom I don't?

Ah, you want control...... :rolleyes:

But still dude, your attitude sucks to be honest- here everyone is a RevLefter first and foremost.

Why don't you create a White Group for Whites only... or a Male group for Males only... I wonder how far you would get....

[TheCommunist]

I'm not sure if I can consider myself a jew, can anyone lend a hand here? send me a private message hebrew hammer or any other jews out there

[ComradeMan]

This kind of exclusivism has no place at RevLeft.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Ah, you want control...... :rolleyes:

A Jew wanting control over some media? No way! But yeah, I do, not in some weird sort or way, I just don't want anyone coming in and causing trouble. Not that anyone here would but you know, better safe than sorry. It doesn't necessarily have to be Jews only but this is whom I am catering to and whom I had in mind while creating the group. It's the target audience, if you will. There is no exclusivism, I'm just repeating what I said in my last post, perhaps if you reread it, you will see this.

[Le Libérer]

So does it matter if one is Orthodox or not too get into your group? I noticed you've asked everyone that question.

[PhoenixAsh]

I want to be in this group...just because I am not allowed. Also...I want to be part of the conspiracy.

[Hebrew Hammer]

So does it matter if one is Orthodox or not too get into your group? I noticed you've asked everyone that question.

No, like I said this group is open to any Jew who is frum (observant), which could be Orthodox, Reform, Recon, etc. Those who are frumish, try or whatever and those whom are secular. This is the target audience however anyone can really join if they are really interested in the previously mentioned topics. I ask mainly because I'm just curious, I feel like a loner in this regard, want to see if there are 'others.' Like I said, this isn't Israel, you don't have to be Orthodox to get in, lol.


I want to be in this group...just because I am not allowed. Also...I want to be part of the conspiracy.

If you genuinely want to and are interested in the topics you can join, just request.

I will say however, I don't want any "messianic Judaism," crap, that's about all I ask, the kibbutz is Jeezus free.

[PhoenixAsh]

Just look at me as the shabbos goy.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Just look at me as the shabbos goy.

Welcome to the grand conspiracy, that's all I needed to hear.

[Thirsty Crow]

Ah, you want control...... :rolleyes:

But still dude, your attitude sucks to be honest- here everyone is a RevLefter first and foremost.

Why don't you create a White Group for Whites only... or a Male group for Males only... I wonder how far you would get....
Quite frankly, given the ridiculous anti-theist attitude of some of the posters on the board, I can see, to an extent, why HH would want to approve of the members of this group.

[hatzel]

Quite frankly, given the ridiculous anti-theist attitude of some of the posters on the board, I can see, to an extent, why HH would want to approve of the members of this group.

That would kind of make sense, if it weren't for:


I will say however, I don't want any "messianic Judaism," crap, that's about all I ask, the kibbutz is Jeezus free.

That is to say, even theists (including those who self-identify as adherents of a form of Judaism) aren't allowed, if they're the 'wrong' kind of theist...

[ComradeMan]

I will say however, I don't want any "messianic Judaism," crap, that's about all I ask, the kibbutz is Jeezus free.

But... but... Jesus was a Jew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :scared:

What about Karaites, Jewish Humanists, Falash Mura.... etc? It reminds me of the re-circumcising of the falasha or Beta Israel....

You are being a bigot...

I hope Rabbi K will set up an Alternative Kibbutz to your schmuckish group.

[Hebrew Hammer]

That is to say, even theists (including those who self-identify as adherents of a form of Judaism) aren't allowed, if they're the 'wrong' kind of theist...

I don't consider messianic "Judaism," a form of Judaism and was stating, for the record, I don't want any of their crap or anything to do with the "blessed lord," Jeezus in the group. Even assuming you are a messianic "Jew," you can still join but keep your own personal views about Jesus to yourself and don't proselytize. This group is about Jews for Jews, goyim are welcome to join and partcipate though and considering this aim, why would I want or allow people to come in and blab on about "the good news of Jeezus"? That's all I'm saying.

This being said, don't be shy folks, step on up.

[Hebrew Hammer]

But... but... Jesus was a Jew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah but he also didn't want to become a doctor hence why we killed him.


What about Karaites, Jewish Humanists, Falash Mura.... etc? It reminds me of the re-circumcising of the falasha or Beta Israel....

You are being a bigot...

I hope Rabbi K will set up an Alternative Kibbutz to your schmuckish group.

This is fucking retarded, how many fucking times do I have to explain myself without another person being like "zomgah exclusivismsmsmsmsmsmsmsmsm," seriously, there is no exclusivism or bigotry here, I just said, don't join my group with the intent of talking about Jesus, I don't give a fuck about Jesus or his "good news." Religious topics can be discusses of course but I'm limiting the Jewish movements only to those like Orthodox (chasidic, haredi, modern), Conservative, Reform/Liberal, Reconstructionist, Karaite, and Humanist. You can post threads about the historical Jesus but it has to be Jew-positive, meaning, you can't be like "you guys are wrong, why don't you except god on Earth?" That's all I'm saying and in this spirit, I have to say, Jesus fucking Christ.

[ComradeMan]

I don't consider messianic "Judaism," a form of Judaism and was stating, for the record, I don't want any of their crap or anything to do with the "blessed lord," Jeezus in the group. Even assuming you are a messianic "Jew," you can still join but keep your own personal views about Jesus to yourself and don't proselytize. This group is about Jews for Jews, goyim are welcome to join and partcipate though and considering this aim, why would I want or allow people to come in and blab on about "the good news of Jeezus"? That's all I'm saying.

This being said, don't be shy folks, step on up.

So it has to be your definition of Judaism.....? That's very autocratic...

All this "goyim" talk is not in place with leftist ideals.

And even if Messianic Jews did talk about Yeshua (they would not use the word "Jeezus" as they prefer to use the Hebrew) then why do you feel so insecure as you could not respond from (your) Jewish perspective?

At the end of the day- no one obliges you to respond to a post you don't like....

[Hebrew Hammer]

Quite frankly, given the ridiculous anti-theist attitude of some of the posters on the board, I can see, to an extent, why HH would want to approve of the members of this group.

This is a factor, I'm just trying to prevent any possible negative scenerio, that's it, just stating for the record, if you have the idea of coming into the group to cause trouble whether it be to talk about Jesus, how G-d is really a spaghetti monster, other shit, etc., then don't join or I will remove you.

[ComradeMan]

This is a factor, I'm just trying to prevent any possible negative scenerio, that's it, just stating for the record, if you have the idea of coming into the group to cause trouble whether it be to talk about Jesus, how G-d is really a spaghetti monster, other shit, etc., then don't join or I will remove you.

So what's the point of a Jewish group if no one can debate or discuss Judaism? If you want an echo chamber you should join some social networing group or other...

[Hebrew Hammer]

So it has to be your definition of Judaism.....? That's very autocratic...

No, the pervasive opinion within Judaism proper is that messianic Judaism is considered a branch of Christianity, not Judaism. Do you know how many people have went on saying they were messiah thoroughout history? There are still people out there whom follow Sabbatai Levi today.



All this "goyim" talk is not in place with leftist ideals.


Gentile, non-Jew, stop being fucking pissy. Is this mainly because you're restricted and can't join? Is that it? It this why?


And even if Messianic Jews did talk about Yeshua (they would not use the word "Jeezus" as they prefer to use the Hebrew)

I know what they prefer to call them however I don't care and will refer to him however I please.



then why do you feel so insecure as you could not respond from (your) Jewish perspective?


Oh, I'm sorry, considering the amount of oppression and bullshit Jews have gone through as a result of Christianity and Yeshua I find it offensive that in a group intended for Jews we would have to allow for people to come in and preach "the good news of Jesus," and how we should except Jesus or how Christianity is right, etc. Like I said, even if you were a messianic "Jew," I am just asking you keep your own personal convictions about Jesus to yourself. Jesus can be talked about provided it's in a way that most Jews, Orthodox, Reform, etc. would find appropriate.


At the end of the day- no one obliges you to respond to a post you don't like....

I respond mainly because, apparently, anytime I say anything about what I would not like to see, people are like "omgah, exclusivism," mainly you. Why? I have no idea considering I have been pretty explicit and have been repeating myself.

[Hebrew Hammer]

So what's the point of a Jewish group if no one can debate or discuss Judaism? If you want an echo chamber you should join some social networing group or other...

No, you can discuss Judaism all you want, I want discussion between Orthodox and Reform, Anti-Zionist vs. those whom are more sympathetic to currents of Zionism like labour Zionism and all these other sort of the things. This is no problem, I want debates about the conversion issue or how in modern Israel those among the Ashkenzim are using 'Daas Torah' for "power mongering." I want and expect debate about certain issue, I am just stating things I don't want, just like I don't want people to come in and say "religion is fairytales," or post some Dawkins crap. Sure, we can discuss the nature of G-d and other sorts of things but I am trying to keep the group specific. It was originally intended for religious Jews but I have extended it to all Jews, religious or secular and non-Jews who wish to know more about Judaism or Jewish issues. I don't know how much more explicit I honestly have to be here.

[ComradeMan]

No, the pervasive opinion within Judaism proper is that messianic Judaism is considered a branch of Christianity, not Judaism. Do you know how many people have went on saying they were messiah thoroughout history? There are still people out there whom follow Sabbatai Levi today.

And... your point? Except it's not called Messianic Christianity, but Messianic Judaism. Despite the wiki articile. can you tell me what the "mainstream" Jewish opinion is? What is a "mainstream" Jew? You see, bearing in mind that this is not a rabbinical website, you are opening up a can of worms here...

What about the Karaites? They might not consider you (unless you are Karaite) to be particularly kosher.


Gentile, non-Jew, stop being fucking pissy. Is this mainly because you're restricted and can't join? Is that it? It this why?

No, I wouldn't join any group on RevLeft that did not hold solidarity of people and equality as its only underlying principle, the rest is interest added.


I know what they prefer to call them however I don't care and will refer to him however I please.

So you're being deliberately obnoxious and intolerant towards Christians (indiscriminately).

You use the word "I" a lot...


Oh, I'm sorry, considering the amount of oppression and bullshit Jews have gone through as a result of Christianity and Yeshua I find it offensive that in a group intended for Jews we would have to allow for people to come in and preach "the good news of Jesus," and how we should except Jesus or how Christianity is right, etc.

Yeah, because that's really going to happen on RevLeft. :rolleyes:


Like I said, even if you were a messianic "Jew," I am just asking you keep your own personal convictions about Jesus to yourself. Jesus can be talked about provided it's in a way that most Jews, Orthodox, Reform, etc. would find appropriate.

So that means no discussion. What about Krishna? What about the possible Vedic origins of the Bible? What about Mohammed?


I respond mainly because, apparently, anytime I say anything about what I would not like to see, people are like "omgah, exclusivism," mainly you. Why? I have no idea considering

Because... err.... you're not on an Orthodox Rabbinical Website.... ;)

[Hebrew Hammer]

And... your point? Except it's not called Messianic Christianity, but Messianic Judaism.

Semantics.



Despite the wiki articile. can you tell me what the "mainstream" Jewish opinion is? What is a "mainstream" Jew? You see, bearing in mind that this is not a rabbinical website, you are opening up a can of worms here...


I've already told you the "mainstream," opinion within Judaism, whether you're Reform or Orthodox, is that 'Jews for Jesus' are Christians. Don't believe me? Join a Jewish forum or ask one of your Jewish friends. What is a "mainstream," Jew? I've already listed groups I feel are in the fold of Judaism proper. Pretty much all the movements nor do I see how I'm opening a "can of worms," considering you're the only person *****ing.



What about the Karaites? They might not consider you (unless you are Karaite) to be particularly kosher.


I personally find the Karaites interesting, considering they're like modern Sadducees which I have always found interesting.

I've already stated once that they would be allowed to join.



No, I wouldn't join any group on RevLeft that did not hold solidarity of people and equality as its only underlying principle, the rest is interest added.


This group doesn't violate the above, stop being overtly dramatic.



So you're being deliberately obnoxious and intolerant towards Christians (indiscriminately).


Not particularly, I do use the proper name Jesus however I also sometimes use the spelling "Jeezus." This could be offensive to some Christians here and if it becomes a problem I can chose not to use it however, as it stands, I will spell it however I damn well please.



You use the word "I" a lot...


Point being?


Yeah, because that's really going to happen on RevLeft.

I don't think it would however who knows, I am just stating for the record, what I will or will not accept.



So that means no discussion. What about Krishna? What about the possible Vedic origins of the Bible? What about Mohammed?


I've already said various topics such as the above listed can be discussed provided it's not trolling or 'preaching.' This is not part of the main forum, if you feel the need to discuss something that would be outisde of the groups main aim and parameters then you can do so here, this is a specific group for a specific community and other interested parties.


Because... err.... you're not on an Orthodox Rabbinical Website.... ;)

No, but this a group intended for Jews of all stripes and non-Jews to discuss issues pertaining to Judaism and Jewish issues. If it were any other group my conditions would be fine. The Stalinist group wouldn't allow people to come on their group and troll about how Stalin was a 'meanie' or how Trotsky was right and Trotskyist group wouldn't allow people to troll their group by saying Trotsky was an uppity little shit, permanent revolution is bullshit and Stalin was the bees kneez.

From what I can tell groups which are specific to a certain community would allow for opposing theories, ideas, opinions, etc. to be presented provided the overall discussion was in line with and in favor for their specific group. For example, permanent revolution could be discussed in the Stalinist group but it's unlikely that they would allow for someone to come in and say Socialism in One Country is bullshit and blatantly argue for PR when they can do it in the main forum. Just like with this group.

[JustMovement]

OK this has absolutely nothing to do with me. I should stay out of it. But im not going to.

Im an atheist so I have no dogs in this fight (not that I approve of dog fighting). However: HebrewHammer, I think youre being a bit gratuitously insulting. Why spell jesus with a zed? Ill admit i think its kind of funny, in a very juvenile way, but you can see how it might rile people up.
ComradeMan, you are being way overly sensitive. Theres loads of exclusive groups of revleft. anyways, he went from letting only practicing jews join to letting everyone join.

Lastly, you all have it wrong, embrace Xenu! Scientology 4 life!

[ComradeMan]

ComradeMan, you are being way overly sensitive. Theres loads of exclusive groups of revleft. anyways, he went from letting only practicing jews join to letting everyone join.

Lastly, you all have it wrong, embrace Xenu! Scientology 4 life!


Name and shame- but exclusivity based on race and religion should have no place at RevLeft, it's not like Chess Players group vs a Draughts/Checkers group is it?

I also suspect Hebrew Hammer is backing down from his original position somewhat...

I'm going to wait for what our friendly Rabbi, Rabbi K has to say on this... :lol:

[Robocommie]

here everyone is a RevLefter first and foremost.

Nothing to brag about



Why don't you create a White Group for Whites only... or a Male group for Males only... I wonder how far you would get....Jesus Christ, don't be that guy.

"Why isn't there WHITE Entertainment Television?"

[hatzel]

Jesus can be talked about provided it's in a way that most Jews, Orthodox, Reform, etc. would find appropriate.

I am very interested to hear what you would consider 'appropriate,' particularly considering you seem to have declared yourself as the one who decides who is and isn't allowed in the group, and, therefore, it's presumably up to you to decide who is talking about Jesus in an 'inappropriate' way, so that you can then remove them from the group. Something tells me that we won't agree on what is and isn't appropriate, mind you, which is an issue...


I've already listed groups I feel are in the fold of Judaism proper.

...and you have also expressed a fair amount of hostility towards these groups and their beliefs:


Fuck gilgul though, bunch of chasidic/qabbalah nonsense.

I almost get the feeling that you're saying they're wrong (I mean, 'nonsense' rarely suggests you think they're right), and, if they're wrong, that might mean you're saying they don't have the 'true' faith, or 'pure' beliefs, which is kind of what people do before calling people heretics. Considering you were so quick to attack Christians over here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/christians-question-if-t156355/index.html) (the tone of your OP was far from appropriate, by the way), are currently attacking Messianic Jews in this thread by claiming that, irrespective of what they say they are, the fact that the organised rabbinical bodies* say they are not adherents of Judaism is enough for you to ban them from your little group, your hostility towards those of differing religious beliefs is blindingly obvious. That's not a good place to start. Not only attacking the beliefs of other religions, but ridiculing the beliefs of other strands of your own religion. Not the typical leftist approach to faith, I'm not going to lie to you...

*we're not actually supposed to be particularly fond of them, by the way. Try reading some Tolstoy, it might give you an idea of the religious opposition to organised religion, and the reasons for developing the concept of 'heresy'...


you're the only person *****ing
If you want, I can '*****' too, so that he's not the only one...I might not approve of using the word '*****ing,' though, I dunno...seems there are potentially problematic connotations surrounding that word...


This could be offensive to some Christians here and if it becomes a problem I can chose not to use it however, as it stands, I will spell it however I damn well please.

How terribly obnoxious of you...

[Hebrew Hammer]

Im an atheist so I have no dogs in this fight (not that I approve of dog fighting). However: HebrewHammer, I think youre being a bit gratuitously insulting. Why spell jesus with a zed? Ill admit i think its kind of funny, in a very juvenile way, but you can see how it might rile people up.

I can understand this and I said if it became a problem or something, I would chose not to use it. I fully admit it's juvenile humor and for the lawlz.


Lastly, you all have it wrong, embrace Xenu! Scientology 4 life!

Nah, if you can't tell, I'm down with vodou, Baron Kriminel will fuck yo ass up.

[ComradeMan]

I agree with Rabbi K!


Anyway, as for Hammers--- I prefer this one...


WIHAkqCls4A

[Hebrew Hammer]

I am very interested to hear what you would consider 'appropriate,' particularly considering you seem to have declared yourself as the one who decides who is and isn't allowed in the group, and, therefore, it's presumably up to you to decide who is talking about Jesus in an 'inappropriate' way, so that you can then remove them from the group.

I would say something that would be inappropriate would be the claim that Jesus is the messiah, for example. Thinking about it, I could see this being brought up and discussed and I wouldn't have a problem with it but I just don't want trolls or for it to be flooded with "is Jesus the messiah," or "Jesus is the messiah," or "why don't you except Jesus," or any of that kind of stuff to be constantly brought up. I personally would find some of those threads offensive considering this a group specifically for Jews. There is nothing wrong with discussing this however I guess I was mainly getting at was I don't want trolls, that's about it, perhaps I could have phrased this better.


I almost get the feeling that you're saying they're wrong (I mean, 'nonsense' rarely suggests you think they're right), and, if they're wrong, that might mean you're saying they don't have the 'true' faith, or 'pure' beliefs, which is kind of what people do before calling people heretics.

I wasn't being 'hostile' towards those whom believe in gilgul, I was just stating my opinion that I think it's bullshit. If this was brought up in the group, people could bring this up and say I'm full of shit on this. This would be discussing a Jewish belief held by Jews thus this wouldn't be a problem. I don't have any particular hostitlity towards the Chasidim, I don't nor do I have any hostility towards those whom practice qabbalah. I'm just no Chasidic nor do I practice qabbalah but Chasidim wouldn't be attacked or ridiculed or be called 'heretics' nor would those practice qabbalah. I actually have somewhat of an interest in qabbalah.

I have not tried to say, explicitly or implicitly that the Chasidim are heretics or any Jew that is not Orthodox is a heretic. I have stated explicitly that all Jews, Orthodox, Reform/Liberal, Recon, Conservative, Humanist, etc. are more than welcome and are infact my target audience as well as those whom are outright secular and non-Jews whom have a interest in Judaism or Jewish issues, all are welcome.

Thinking on it, I may be letting my own opinions of messianic 'Jews' get in the way here and I think I would be somewhat tolerant of their views if they decided to post it in the group, I'm just saying, this isn't a Christian group and I would like to keep it specifically geared towards Judaism and Jewish issues.


Considering you were so quick to attack Christians over here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/christians-question-if-t156355/index.html) (the tone of your OP was far from appropriate, by the way),

I was not "attacking," Christians, I started that thread specifically because I don't know that much about Christianity and wanted to know what I asked in that thread. Perhaps the term 'blasphemy' could be construed as 'attacking' Christians however I didn't really mean it that way. Jews and Muslims would consider it blasphemy to assign a co-partner with G-d or say G-d was a man, Christianity flows from Judaism and all are related as part of the Abrahamic family so I was curious as to how this particular belief came to be which other faiths within the Abrahamic community would consider it 'blasphemous' and so on. I wasn't attacking them in the slightest bit and correct me if I am wrong but I only posted one post in that thread, my OP and then sat back and read the responses. I was genuinely curious about this and always have been in terms of comparative religious discussion, so I asked. If it came accross as attacking to some then I apologize, this wasn't my intent.


are currently attacking Messianic Jews in this thread by claiming that, irrespective of what they say they are, the fact that the organised rabbinical bodies* say they are not adherents of Judaism is enough for you to ban them from your little group

For fuck's sake, I have never said I would ban them the from group, I have stated numerous times that they are free to join, this isn't a problem. I did however say or rather ask that they keep their opinions or beliefs on Jesus to themselves as I don't want this to become a problem, from them or anyone. I am not attacking them nor would I ban them. See also my above comments on the issue of discussing Jesus.


your hostility towards those of differing religious beliefs is blindingly obvious. That's not a good place to start.

It's not "blindlingly obvious," at all, whatsoever. I guess I'm not being explicit enough for people to understand what the fuck I'm getting at.

So:

"Jews and non-Jews alike are welcome, all are welcome."

Is this clear enough for both of you?



Not only attacking the beliefs of other religions, but ridiculing the beliefs of other strands of your own religion. Not the typical leftist approach to faith, I'm not going to lie to you...


Perhaps I phrased it a little to harsh, I have that problem but I never intended to attack or ridicule other religions or particular movements or beliefs of my own. I was stating my opinion and what I believe. People are free to disagree with this and say I'm full of shit.



If you want, I can '*****' too, so that he's not the only one...I might not approve of using the word '*****ing,' though, I dunno...seems there are potentially problematic connotations surrounding that word...


If it does then I can switch that word out with complaining. Though I am unaware of what negative connotations this word may have.


How terribly obnoxious of you...

Not really, I said if it becomes a problem and people here are that offended then I will chose not to use it out of respect. I haven't really used said spelling since people started complaining.

[ComradeMan]

I get the sense that someone is backtracking here..... :glare:


No, like I said this group is open to any Jew who is frum (observant), which could be Orthodox, Reform, Recon, etc. Those who are frumish, try or whatever and those whom are secular. This is the target audience however anyone can really join if they are really interested in the previously mentioned topics...

The opening sentence seems to contradict the next one.

What's more concerning is the psychology of "target audience"- this is a group afterall, not a personal blog or news column.

We also have this


I just created the groups mainly for yids, dig?

Moving on...


Fuck gilgul though, bunch of chasidic/qabbalah nonsense.

This doesn't show much respect for Chasidism or Kabbalah. Isn't kabbalah with a "q" the normal spelling for the non-specifically Jewish Hermetic tradition? :confused: Oops....

And..


I will say however, I don't want any "messianic Judaism," crap, that's about all I ask, the kibbutz is Jeezus free.

Leaving aside the spelling of Jeezus, generally referring to people's religious beliefs as "crap" is hardly the mark of tolerance, is it?

[Hebrew Hammer]

I get the sense that someone is backtracking here..... :glare:

It's not really "backtracking." When I first started the group is was on a whim and was mainly supposed to be a group for religious Jews (of varying movements) just like the Christians and Muslims have their own groups. Then after I saw Psycho's comments I thought maybe I would extend it to both Jews whom are frum and those whom are secular. Then when I saw that non-Jews wanted to participate (Hindsight 20/20) I extended it to both Jews and non-Jews while still maintaining that the group is for the dicussion of Judaism and Jewish issues, both religious and non-religious. Yeah, I might have extended who could join and who couldn't considering I didn't think there would be much interest in it aside from other Jews but still. Call this backtracking if you like. I have already accepted non-Jews whom are members of the group as we speak.



The opening sentence seems to contradict the next one.


See above.



What's more concerning is the psychology of "target audience"- this is a group afterall, not a personal blog or news column.


It's just a phrase I have used (usually with quotations mind you). Seriously, you're arguments are silly and ridiculous. What is the Maoist group mainly for? Maoists, what is the Anarchist group mainly for? Anarchists, what is the Trotskyist group mainly for? Trostskyists, what is the Christian group mainly for? Christians, why is that a group for Jews is the only one being complained about? Especially when I have explained to you, repeatedly, that non-Jews can join. Yes, this group is intended for Jews, that's kind of the whole point of the group, it's for Jews, it's a Jewish group. Jews are the "target audience." You can stop being ridiculous at any point.


This doesn't show much respect for Chasidism or Kabbalah.

I have already explained this, scroll up and read.



Isn't kabbalah with a "q" the normal spelling for the non-specifically Jewish Hermetic tradition? :confused: Oops....


My bad, fine, kabbalah.


Leaving aside the spelling of Jeezus, generally referring to people's religious beliefs as "crap" is hardly the mark of tolerance, is it?

Perhaps not but then again, I was just stating my own opinion and I've already addressed this. Perhaps I will be charitable in my posts.

[ComradeMan]

The only ridiculous thing here is your vain attempt to dig yourself out of a hole.
Anyway...תיקון עולם

BTW- there is a difference between a group "for" and a group "aimed at"- think about it.;)

[Hebrew Hammer]

The only ridiculous thing here is your vain attempt to dig yourself out of a hole.

I'm not trying to dig myself out of any hole at all.


BTW- there is a difference between a group "for" and a group "aimed at"- think about it.

As far this conversation is concerned not really, I could have used either one. But really, you're again, just being ridiculous.

[ComradeMan]

I'm not trying to dig myself out of any hole at all.

As far this conversation is concerned not really, I could have used either one. But really, you're again, just being ridiculous.

So your constant backtracking, changing of position and perspective and seemingly convenient memory of what has been said by you in the recent past is not digging yourself out of a metaphorical hole?

As far as any conversation is concerned, the words you choose are the words you choose- you can't argue to the hypothetical.

[Hebrew Hammer]

So your constant backtracking, changing of position and perspective and seemingly convenient memory of what has been said by you in the recent past is not digging yourself out of a metaphorical hole?

:lol:

You're making an mountain out of an anthill, really, is what you're doing. So you took some offhand comments made by me about gilgul. So you presented some misinterpreted thread written by me. I've already explained all of this, further, I have explained myself to you in general repeatedly, I really could give you a fuck less if you call it backtracking or not. I also could give a fuck less about your comments regarding the group or me making extensions based upon observations, demands and so forth.

Point being is, it's ultimately irrelevant to you considering you're restricted further even if you weren't restricted you don't have to join if you feel so strongly about it. Anyone is welcome to join, they don't have to fear being censored, all I was really trying to get at was I don't want trolls and I was just saying that for the record even if I assumed it wouldn't be likely that such things would happen here on revleft.

[hatzel]

Anyone is welcome to join

...unless they're Messianic Jews or otherwise bring Jesus to the shindig, because then they are explicitly unwelcome :rolleyes:

[Astarte]

I don't consider messianic "Judaism," a form of Judaism and was stating, for the record, I don't want any of their crap or anything to do with the "blessed lord," Jeezus in the group. Even assuming you are a messianic "Jew," you can still join but keep your own personal views about Jesus to yourself and don't proselytize. This group is about Jews for Jews, goyim are welcome to join and partcipate though and considering this aim, why would I want or allow people to come in and blab on about "the good news of Jeezus"? That's all I'm saying.

This being said, don't be shy folks, step on up.

Why do you persist in calling non-Jews "goyim"? Just say non-Jews.

[Hebrew Hammer]

...unless they're Messianic Jews or otherwise bring Jesus to the shindig, because then they are explicitly unwelcome :rolleyes:

No, I've already said messianic Jews could join and that Jesus could be brought, I just, for the 1.000th time, don't want nothing but Jesus thread or possible trolling. Not saying anyone here would do that, just saying, it would be appreciative if they don't. :rolleyes:

[Hebrew Hammer]

Why do you persist in calling non-Jews "goyim"? Just say non-Jews.

What difference does it make? They mean the same thing? Why does it matter if I say goyim (no quotations needed, it's just transliterated Hebrew, or is that a problem?), gentile, non-Jew, etc.? I don't see what the big deal is.

[bcbm]

yo chill out, nobody really even posts in social groups i think you're overthinking this. both sides of this really. its a group for jews if you want to join cool if somebodys trollin kick them out. how did this become a 3 page discussion with essays and shit

[hatzel]

how did this become a 3 page discussion with essays and shit

Peeps like to argue with peeps about peeps' stuff. Also there's the underlying current of hostility between members which needs some mundane thread to realise itself...

[bcbm]

y'all some goofballs:sleep:

[ComradeMan]

What difference does it make? They mean the same thing? Why does it matter if I say goyim (no quotations needed, it's just transliterated Hebrew, or is that a problem?), gentile, non-Jew, etc.? I don't see what the big deal is.

Stop being disingenuous why don't you? Do you think we were all born yesterday? Anyone who has grown up in the Jewish community or has Jewish family etc with a Yiddish background knows well that the word "goy" is used disparagingly of non-Jews. Your arguments are about the same as people who try to justify the "n-word" with innocent faces saying "Well, it only means black"... Inasmuch as terms like "yid" or "schmo" are not acceptable then "goy" is just as dubious. Apart from anything else it just goes further to create a "them" and "us" mentality which is not really in the spirit of leftism.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Stop being disingenuous why don't you?

Was unaware that I was being that but ok.


Do you think we were all born yesterday?

No.


Anyone who has grown up in the Jewish community or has Jewish family etc with a Yiddish background knows well that the word "goy" is used disparagingly of non-Jews.

No, the word can be used in a disparaging was but not always nor was it my intent to use it in a pejorative manner. You know very well that all it means is non-Jew and doesn't inherently have any pejorative meaning. Do you have a problem with the term 'shabbos goy'?


Apart from anything else it just goes further to create a "them" and "us" mentality which is not really in the spirit of leftism.

I don't think it necessarily reflects this attitude nor has to, it merely means non-Jew and while it can be used in a pejorative manner this is not always the case. This is the historical term both within Hebrew and Yiddish to denote "nation," and in particular a "non-Israelite nation," a non-Jewish nation, people or community.

I don't see the particular problem with this considering there (for the most see-able future) will always be Jews and non-Jews, just as there will be blacks and non-blacks and Christians and non-Christians. How are we to refer to non-Jews? How are refer to people outside of the community? Just "those people," or wait, that's probably creating a "us," vs. "them," dichotomy right? Probably in your mind so but I don't understand you feel the need or where you get off trying to dictate how Jews should refer to non-Jews and say we're not allowed to use our own language(s) to do so.

I could have said non-Jew or gentile and you could have still whipped up the same "us vs. them," bullshit. I don't even think it really matters what word I use, I could and have said non-Jew. I have no problem using the terms non-Jew and I have used it various times throughout this thread. But all in all, I'm sick of this pointless arguing and I don't think I will continue much further aside from to clear up misconceptions of the group which is the sole reason why I have sat here and responded to you.

I ultimately agree with bcbm, this was just a whim social group I started and I was joking around for the majority till you and others had to take my comments so very seriously.

[ComradeMan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:laugh:

[bcbm]

please don't post one liners or spam;)

[Hebrew Hammer]

Now excepting jooboos or boojoos.

[RGacky3]

Comrademan, you don't REALLY believe this has anything to do with discrimination, racial superiority or bigotry at all do you? It sounds like your just being anal about something just for the sake of it.

[Le Libérer]

After a very lengthy heated debate, the mods have voted to remove all religious groups from the board. I will add it was a very close poll.

Sorry, Hebrew Hammer, but your religious group will not be allowed.