WI "walker" anti-union bill upheld

[Rusty Shackleford]

MADISON, Wis. -- The Wisconsin Supreme Court handed Republican Gov. Scott Walker a major victory Tuesday, ruling that a polarizing union law that strips most public employees of their collective bargaining rights could take effect.Wisconsin Anti-Union Bill Upheld (http://www.freep.com/article/20110615/NEWS07/106150443/Wis-law-strips-public-employee-collective-bargaining-rights-stands)




fuck liberalism and letting this shit fall back into the courts!
ThbmlEVGQdU

[Coach Trotsky]

Well, we got the news.

Now, what is everyone gonna do about?
I want to fight, and I bet I ain't alone.
Who will bring the fightback?

[ken6346]

Wisconsin Anti-Union Bill Upheld (http://www.freep.com/article/20110615/NEWS07/106150443/Wis-law-strips-public-employee-collective-bargaining-rights-stands)\]
Brave, Wisconsin. Very brave.

This will go to the Supreme Court, and it will be found unconstitutional under the first amendment rights to freedom of assembly and petition, I can guarantee you.

Then again, this is so scummy of that state that it makes my blood boil. Walker will be recalled in a few months, be sure of it - hopefully this will at least make the GOP go under in that state for a little while, so that workers can at least enjoy some comfort in their slavery.

[Communist]

The workers are called on to make sacrifices and pay for the state's 3.6 billion dollar deficit! Certainly not shocking but always enraging.

[bcbm]

Walker will be recalled in a few months, be sure of it

i'm not. and even if he is, so what? we will get a democrat hack who will put a smiley face on what will amount to more of the same austerity measures

[chegitz guevara]

Brave, Wisconsin. Very brave.

This will go to the Supreme Court, and it will be found unconstitutional under the first amendment rights to freedom of assembly and petition, I can guarantee you.

Then again, this is so scummy of that state that it makes my blood boil. Walker will be recalled in a few months, be sure of it - hopefully this will at least make the GOP go under in that state for a little while, so that workers can at least enjoy some comfort in their slavery.

The Supine Court will not overturn this.

Walker may or may not be recalled. But if that's what Wisconsin workers rely on to save them, they deserve to have their asses kicked over and over again until they learn that the only ones they can rely on are themselves.

[heyjoe]

Brave, Wisconsin. Very brave.

This will go to the Supreme Court, and it will be found unconstitutional under the first amendment rights to freedom of assembly and petition, I can guarantee you.

Then again, this is so scummy of that state that it makes my blood boil. Walker will be recalled in a few months, be sure of it - hopefully this will at least make the GOP go under in that state for a little while, so that workers can at least enjoy some comfort in their slavery.

the same supreme court who has ruled that corporations are people and can buy elections? the supreme court both at the state and federal level are bought and paid for. US Supreme Court Justices openly take pay for speaking engagements from right wing groups and accept money for travel, hotel, etc. If you are believing that they will save the day you are going to be severely disappointed.

[KC]

i'm not. and even if he is, so what? we will get a democrat hack who will put a smiley face on what will amount to more of the same austerity measures

I think democrats might repeal this if it actually is found lawful and they get control. However, I think the more important issue, and one which nobody is talking about, are the cuts that both the dems and repubs agreed on. Even the unions accepted the cuts; their argument has simply been "hey we accepted the cuts, don't touch our collective bargaining" when in reality they should have moved against the cuts as well.

[Leftsolidarity]

I was never a huge fan of The Exploited. The lead singer is annoying to me.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I was never a huge fan of The Exploited. The lead singer is annoying to me.
cool story bro and all that.

this is about the bill. not about the song.

[Le Socialiste]

Brave, Wisconsin. Very brave.

This will go to the Supreme Court, and it will be found unconstitutional under the first amendment rights to freedom of assembly and petition, I can guarantee you.

Then again, this is so scummy of that state that it makes my blood boil. Walker will be recalled in a few months, be sure of it - hopefully this will at least make the GOP go under in that state for a little while, so that workers can at least enjoy some comfort in their slavery.

You mean the same Supreme Court that ruled in favor of corporations being counted as people, thus allowing them to effectively mount a complete takeover of the political system (not like it wasn't already happening, mind you)?

The workers should not have to settle. They should fight back.

[Leftsolidarity]

cool story bro and all that.

this is about the bill. not about the song.

Sorry about that.

I live in Wisconsin. Does anyone have any actions planned?

[Coach Trotsky]

Sorry about that.

I live in Wisconsin. Does anyone have any actions planned?

If not, what should be concluded?

[Leftsolidarity]

If not, what should be concluded?

What?

[Coach Trotsky]

What?

If all the organized political forces within the region that are ostensibly on the side of the workers have no action plans for Wisconsin regarding this anti-union cuts legislation in the wake of this unsurprising state Supreme Court decision, what then can be concluded about said political forces (and especially their organized leaderships)?

[Blackscare]

If all the organized political forces within the region that are ostensibly on the side of the workers have no action plans for Wisconsin regarding this anti-union cuts legislation in the wake of this unsurprising state Supreme Court decision, what then can be concluded about said political forces (and especially their organized leaderships)?

There are demonstrations, etc. ISO was at the capitol occupation/etc, but there's not much you can do if you don't have numbers. You can have all the discipline and motivation in the world but you can wave a magic wand and create a million radical workers out of nowhere.

[Leftsolidarity]

If all the organized political forces within the region that are ostensibly on the side of the workers have no action plans for Wisconsin regarding this anti-union cuts legislation in the wake of this unsurprising state Supreme Court decision, what then can be concluded about said political forces (and especially their organized leaderships)?

That they suck ass.

I wouldn't mind trying to set something up myself if other people are down. I could also contact our local SPUSA branch in Milwaukee about anything.

[Leftsolidarity]

There are demonstrations, etc. ISO was at the capitol occupation/etc, but there's not much you can do if you don't have numbers. You can have all the discipline and motivation in the world but you can wave a magic wand and create a million radical workers out of nowhere.

Yeah but Madison is like 2 hours from the Milwaukee area. Also, Scotty is doing a good job of making the workers radical for us.

[Blackscare]

That they suck ass.

I wouldn't mind trying to set something up myself if other people are down. I could also contact our local SPUSA branch in Milwaukee about anything.

That's fucking stupid. "They suck ass". Really, so (aside from the SPUSA who you want to contact lol) every single leftist political group in this country categorically "sucks ass", else you would be compelled to give a more nuanced analysis, right?

Or maybe the world is governed by, I don't know, material circumstances and the lack of proletarian interest in such groups in this country are tied to high living standards vis-a-vis the rest of the world and people don't just go out making revolution for shits and giggles. Conditions in this country are declining, hence the embryonic forms of class struggle that are currently beginning to emerge. What is important is that the left begin embedding itself more in movements as they emerge. The Left can't make this kind of shit happen. I agree that political groups in this country, for varying reasons, are generally shit. Them having this or that bad quality doesn't explain the sorry state of worker radicalism today though.


You can't just make revolution happen. And I'm sorry, but the idea of starting some new group that is somehow supposed to transcend all the problems of the left and really get shit going doesn't even make sense, since one of the biggest problems on the left today is the fact that it's fractured to fuck and back. What's your new idea anyway? "Oh hai guyz, lets go make revolutionz!" Workers: "YAAAYYY"




There's a lot of problems on the left today, but the sad fact is that mostly the only people who even know of such problems are existing ideologues. The problem is that workers can't be bothered to take an interest. The question for the left is why this happens and how to we step in as it starts to change (which it will, and I believe the beginning of said long process is upon us).

[Leftsolidarity]

That's fucking stupid. "They suck ass". Really, so (aside from the SPUSA who you want to contact lol) every single leftist political group in this country categorically "sucks ass", else you would be compelled to give a more nuanced analysis, right?

Or maybe the world is governed by, I don't know, material circumstances and the lack of proletarian interest in such groups in this country are tied to high living standards vis-a-vis the rest of the world and people don't just go out making revolution for shits and giggles. Conditions in this country are declining, hence the embryonic forms of class struggle that are currently beginning to emerge. What is important is that the left begin embedding itself more in movements as they emerge. The Left can't make this kind of shit happen. I agree that political groups in this country, for varying reasons, are generally shit. Them having this or that bad quality doesn't explain the sorry state of worker radicalism today though.


You can't just make revolution happen. And I'm sorry, but the idea of starting some new group that is somehow supposed to transcend all the problems of the left and really get shit going doesn't even make sense, since one of the biggest problems on the left today is the fact that it's fractured to fuck and back. What's your new idea anyway? "Oh hai guyz, lets go make revolutionz!" Workers: "YAAAYYY"




There's a lot of problems on the left today, but the sad fact is that mostly the only people who even know of such problems are existing ideologues. The problem is that workers can't be bothered to take an interest. The question for the left is why this happens and how to we step in as it starts to change (which it will, and I believe the beginning of said long process is upon us).

Maybe if you took a second to try to be constructive rather than shit on people that want to do something it would help.

First of all, I was saying that any regional political group that isn't trying to do something sucks ass.

Secondly, I wasn't talking about forming some new political party or anything like that. I was talking about maybe a gathering or protest or something.

Third, when did I say revolution?


I was merely talking about possibly getting with other Leftists to oppose what is happening but apparently that is somehow stupid to you.

[Coach Trotsky]

Right, my impression (derived secondhand, unfortunately) of the rank and file workers sentiment was that the workers did want to make a massive serious fightback, including a general strike.

Obviously the Democrats, the union bureaucrats, and other liberal-Left establishment functionaries didn't want that to happen.

But a question for those revolutionary socialists who were involved in the Madison protests: Didn't anyone get contact information on-scene(at least from those who were local or live within the state), and do any followup with those contacts?
No, you can't just wave a magic wand, but contact information lists of working people who actually have showed up in struggles looking to make a fightback, and who even resonated enough with revolutionary socialists' message to give up their contact information, can be incredibly important in situations like this. At the very least, they can be used to reconnect and advance consciousness. But they also could be used to initiate and begin mobilize independent workers' action. Then take this message to the working class and oppressed communities, and especially to the young people, and mobilize the hell of them to come out for a mass demonstration (at least). The far Left doesn't get taken seriously any more because instead of doing this sort of thing in the face of sellouts, they tend to say "whoa is me, we got sold out, now we're fucked, nothing we can do about it though".
Damn, even if you can't get hundreds of thousands out, get some out at least to protest and see the need for an independent mass working-class fightback! That's better than nothing, better than rolling over and playing dead. The ones who do show up will learn a lot, and you'd be smart to focus regular attention on their education/development and on active political collaborative relationships with these folks henceforth.

[Leftsolidarity]

I was at a few of the big Madison protests. Almost every socialist/communist group in Wisconsin was there.

[Coach Trotsky]

I was at a few of the big Madison protests. Almost every socialist/communist group in Wisconsin was there.

So, what are they going to do now? Surely, they made lots of contacts among the rank-and-file protesters. Isn't it time to put those contact lists to use?

BTW, I'm a few states over, and right now I'm seriously considering moving out of this Bible Belt Raptureville conservative Tea Party hellhole middle-class "white flight" zone so I can get back into the fight. Where I go depends on where the serious revolutionary socialist activists are doing their best to initiate, mobilize, organize and advance a massive independent working-class anti-capitalist fightback in the real-world. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing much of that anywhere in America right now.

[bcbm]

budget passed 60-38


So, what are they going to do now? Surely, they made lots of contacts among the rank-and-file protesters. Isn't it time to put those contact lists to use?

the president of the madison firefighters union, joe conway (http://socialistworker.org/2011/06/09/time-to-get-people-out-again), is speaking at "socialism 2011." in that interview i linked he speaks a bit about trying to get people out in the streets again through the local unions. they might be able to get some people. i don't think any of the "radicals" will accomplish much of anything.

[chegitz guevara]

That they suck ass.

I wouldn't mind trying to set something up myself if other people are down. I could also contact our local SPUSA branch in Milwaukee about anything.

Forget about Milwaukee. Those idiots have no clue. They are simply an old folks cult of Frank Zielder. During the height of the Madison protests, the only thing they did was to have a meeting about what to do about their office.

There is a local in South Central Wisconsin (read Madison) which is revolutionary. Try and contact them.

[Leftsolidarity]

Forget about Milwaukee. Those idiots have no clue. They are simply an old folks cult of Frank Zielder. During the height of the Madison protests, the only thing they did was to have a meeting about what to do about their office.

There is a local in South Central Wisconsin (read Madison) which is revolutionary. Try and contact them.

Thanks for the info. I did get annoyed at them because for a few months the never picked up their phone or returned my calls until I happened to mention it to Billy Wharton and he got pissed.

I do like the South Central branch. I met up with them in Madison during some of the protests but it is like a 2 hour drive.

[KC]

I wouldn't mind trying to set something up myself if other people are down. I could also contact our local SPUSA branch in Milwaukee about anything.I haven't seen SPUSA at anything in 5 years, and even then it was about 10 people at an anti-war demo. I don't think they're very active, if at all.


So, what are they going to do now?

They're going to organize protests and demonstration, then more protests and demonstration, so they can gain more supporters who will in turn help them organize yet more protests and demonstrations. That's all the left does for the most part.

[bcbm]

i predict lots of hand wringing from the "recall!" types as people act more extreme (the usual civil disobedience stuff) with the budget passing.

[pinktopaz]

Forget about Milwaukee. Those idiots have no clue. They are simply an old folks cult of Frank Zielder. During the height of the Madison protests, the only thing they did was to have a meeting about what to do about their office.

There is a local in South Central Wisconsin (read Madison) which is revolutionary. Try and contact them.

I guess that's why I haven't heard from the Milwaukee SPUSA either. I'm a new member, signed up through national office. Right now I have a card and no connections.

Madison is a long drive. If there is other people in this forum interested in seeking out the old folks Frank Ziedler cult anyway, I think it might be worth it if two or three of us new people started showing up to the Milwaukee meetings regularly. (If they still meet. The web page hasn't been updated since March.)

I think it would be a big shame if Milwaukee didn't have a socialist presence. It seems that there are a couple Cream City folk in here. Let's not give up on Milwaukee.

[KC]

I think it would be a big shame if Milwaukee didn't have a socialist presence. It seems that there are a couple Cream City folk in here. Let's not give up on Milwaukee.

Milwaukee does have a socialist presence, it's just in backwards sects like the SPUSA and FRSO.

[bcbm]

anything that will be done will and should be outside of the confines of any existing organization

[Mr. Cervantes]

Sorry about that.

I live in Wisconsin. Does anyone have any actions planned?

I'm too busy working my fifty five hours a week wage slave job at a factory in Wisconsin. :laugh:

I'll get back to you like never...

I'm a working zombie.

[Leftsolidarity]

I'm too busy working my fifty five hours a week wage slave job at a factory in Wisconsin. :laugh:

I'll get back to you like never...

I'm a working zombie.

Yeah I know that's rough. There are still things you can do though. I'm sure that you know some co-workers who also are not too pleased with the way they live. I bet you could find some sort of sympathetic ear to some down to earth socialist literature. I can help get you that if you'd like.

[Mr. Cervantes]

Yeah I know that's rough. There are still things you can do though. I'm sure that you know some co-workers who also are not too pleased with the way they live. I bet you could find some sort of sympathetic ear to some down to earth socialist literature. I can help get you that if you'd like.

Although I think such a thought is definately novel it's been my expirience that any discussion of unionism or even communist uprising within the workplace is looked down upon by the upper management to which a person can become canned from their job very quickly.

I remember working at this one corporate warehouse where a anti - union documentary was apart of their employee orientation. :lol::thumbdown:

The propaganda in one of their orientation videos expousing anti unionism was amazingly unreal.

At the place of employment the employee orientation instructor told everybody to report any intimidating union activities to the management personnel.

[Leftsolidarity]

Although I think such a thought is definately novel it's been my expirience that any discussion of unionism or even communist uprising within the workplace is looked down upon by the upper management to which a person can become canned from their job very quickly.

I remember working at this one corporate warehouse where a anti - union documentary was apart of their employee orientation. :lol::thumbdown:

The propaganda in one of their orientation videos expousing anti unionism was amazingly unreal.

At the place of employment the employee orientation instructor told everybody to report any intimidating union activities to the management personnel.

I'm sure you get some secret distrubtion system set up :ninja: