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Le Socialiste
14th June 2011, 08:39
Wes Craven’s Scream 4: How badly did we need another one?


By Joanne Laurier
6 June 2011

Directed by Wes Craven, screenplay by Kevin Williamson



http://www.revleft.com/images/2011jun/j06-scre-480.jpgScream 4
Wes Craven is one of the horror genre’s best-known and most innovative directors. His career has spanned some 40 years, beginning with his 1970s’ cult hits The Last House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes. His popular reputation was established with A Nightmare on Elm Street and the rest of that series in the 1980s, and enjoyed another surge in the 1990s with the Scream trilogy, a cycle in which a frightening phone call and the character Ghostface became iconic.


Assessing Craven’s work is complicated because it is located in the margins of a generally retrograde genre. The slasher-serial killer movies of the past several decades have been more often than not either repugnant or tedious, or both. As a form, the “art” of dicing and stabbing has perhaps more in common with pornography than genuinely artistic moviemaking. Storylines and character development tend to be mere scaffolding, with the inevitably repetitive acts lending to the genre an almost inbred and incestuous quality.

Craven, however, has demonstrated flair and imagination—and a sardonic touch—in his work, which is considerably more substantial—and watchable—than average “splatter” films.

As the longevity of his career attests, for better or worse, Craven is not a flash in the pan. His movies, with occasionally bold and audacious images, are sympathetic to their characters in a genre that usually demonstrates its disorientation or commercial opportunism (or simple laziness) in the face of a changing world by resorting to misanthropy and boundless violence. Craven’s feeling for his fictional creations offers an aesthetic distinct from the ugliness and crudity ingrained in much of current horror cinema. Unlike some of his colleagues, Craven is not an ignoramus or an intellectual arsonist.

Coming more than a decade after the previous installment, Scream 4, unfortunately, reveals that the director is stagnating in his particular niche.

The work is not without its amusements. Sprinkled with clever jokes about social networking and blogging (“Ghostface is not an app”), the movie is something of a self-critical enterprise—within its own limited orbit.

The newest Scream features a character with a camera affixed to his head for 24/7 recording and a teenage duo that sponsor a ‘Stab-a-thon’ film festival. Skewering the slasher genre (“Saw has no character development”), Scream 4 begins with a farcical movie-within-a-movie-within-a-movie segment, lampooning the industry’s ‘sequel-itis.’ It then settles, however, into the rather routine format.

The Scream characters are updated: Sydney (Neve Campbell) comes home to the town of Woodsboro, the scene of all the crimes, on the last stop of a tour promoting a book on self-help for victims—not only those of Ghostface. The franchise also returns Dewey (David Arquette) and Gale (Courteney Cox), now married. While the former has moved on from bumbling detective to sheriff, his wife is frustrated by her uninspired efforts to make the transition from reporter to fiction writer. Murder mayhem provides Gale with an opportunity to get her creative and investigative juices flowing again.

A new crop of young people—Emma Roberts, Hayden Panettiere and Rory Culkin—step into the roles of victims and perpetrators. After an auspicious start, the goings-on in Scream 4 become relatively tired and predictable.

Had Craven followed the logic of his own satirical attack on remakes, retreads and reboots, Scream 4 would not have made it to the theaters, at least not in its present form. If there is anything to the film, it is its implication that the larger media entertainment world is self-involved, self-contained and cut off from life. Craven has not, however, sufficiently distanced his film from that problem.

In this sense, Craven’s 2010 movie My Soul To Take is somewhat more of a departure. With a gritty, well-constructed look, the movie centers on a group of teenagers in a small town cursed by the reincarnation of a serial killer. That film proves more intriguing because the characters are somewhat developed and connected to their locale and social situation. Max Thieriot as Bug is particularly effective as the rather somber lead figure.

Like so much of America, the town in My Soul to Take has a claustrophobic environment that conveys a sense of ever dwindling social and moral prospects. Although the place is beset by a serial killer, other, more earthly (and more compelling) problems loom too. The neophyte actors are refreshing and there is feeling and thought in their characterizations. The film’s best attributes, however, are at odds with its fatalistic, mystical bent. Also unfortunate is the fact that it remains essentially a slasher movie.

In a recent interview, Craven offered an explanation, or justification, for the proliferation of stab films. He stated that “I think in some ways the entertainment follows the reality. Those two films [Saw and Hostel] about torture came out in the middle of revelations about the extent of torture that was being done by our country, at least our leaders, in trying to cope with 9/11. It was horrific, and there were some very devastating images that come from the prison; people standing with hoods over their head and electrodes coming out of their fingers. My God, that couldn’t have come out of a horror movie any more than possible. Those are startling images, and I think it deeply affected the subconscious of a lot of filmmakers, so it really didn’t not surprise me that torture became the subject of consideration.” (bryanreesman.com)

Unfortunately, “consideration” hardly comes into play in such films. Unhappily, there is far less consideration and much more prostration, or exploitation. Slashers are not a form of criticism, by and large, but another way of adapting to and going with the flow. In that sense, they are part of the regressive social landscape and have the added byproduct of helping inure young people in particular to brutality.

Craven made a revealing comment to Bill Krohn in an interview published in [I]Cahiers du Cinema (April 2011): “I heard [documentarian D.A.] Leacock or [Richard] Pennebaker say, ‘If someone is being murdered on the sidewalk in front of me, I’m not going to put down the camera and help them. I’m just going to keep on shooting.’ That means you don’t look away. You don’t cut. With so much of the violence in American film, the camera either pans up or cuts. The deal you have with yourself and the world is that you’re the one who doesn’t look away.”

In the first place, the slasher film is not a documentary, it is a fictional creation. Furthermore, Craven is not apparently concerned with tracing violence to its roots in social structures. He appears to refer to an abstract violence he sees as springing from people’s vilest thoughts and behavior. On this basis, there is not much hope of making sense of the phenomenon. This is rendered doubly difficult by a lack of critical detachment and mediation on the part of the artist. The method is far too reactive, unthinking, and amounts to an artistic passing of the buck. Murkily or not, Craven is talking about not “looking away” from the evil in humankind.

If there is one chronic artistic flaw in Craven’s body of work, and this is bound up with cloudy ideas about the world, it is that his dramatic premises, daring as they may sometimes be, are insufficiently worked through and therefore susceptible to hijacking by stronger, unsavory tendencies or simply left high and dry, unsatisfactorily resolved.

The late Robin Wood, British-born film critic and commentator, wrote once that the “traditional [classic] horror film invited, however ambiguously, an identification with the return of the repressed , the contemporary horror film invites an identification (either sadistic or masochistic or both simultaneously) with punishment.” In short, the world is a terrible place whose inhabitants deserve the goriest or most painful of fates.

Although Craven is a serious filmmaker and not just one of the best of a bad lot, he has not escaped the degeneration of the horror genre. Craven’s recent works are a step backward from such works as his 1991 film [I]The People Under the Stairs.

That movie features a ghetto rebellion against inhuman landlords—grotesque clones of Ronald and Nancy Reagan—who are exploiting the poor and torturing and cannibalizing young people. All this as respected members of an upper middle-class community. The film is one of Craven’s most cohesive—and angry—works.

In fact, an inadequate spirit of protest may in part account for the half-baked conceptions that mar too much of his filmmaking. It should also be pointed out that any texture and substance in his films have little to do with their ‘slasher’ aspect, a type of hack work that too often fills dead spaces with empty ideas.

In a period when artists had a deeper historical and social understanding, legendary horror producer Val Lewton (1904-1951), the creator of beautiful, haunting works able to disturb on a profound level, once said, “We tossed away the horror formula right from the beginning. No grisly stuff for us. No masklike faces, hardly human, with gnashing teeth and hair standing on end. No creaking physical manifestations. No horror piled upon horror.” And of course, no stabbing and slashing.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jun2011/scr4-j06.shtml

What am I missing here? Is it just me who thinks the writer takes the Scream franchise too seriously? Or horror in general? I'd agree with a couple of points made in the article, but much of it feels like overkill. Thoughts?

wunderbar
14th June 2011, 08:53
It does sort of read like a review of some newly-released Criterion Collection art house movie, but that's just WSWS being WSWS. I'd love to see readers of the review make use of the "leaflet" option and pass it out in front of theaters.

Le Socialiste
14th June 2011, 09:03
While I generally like their art reviews, this one just struck me as strange (not to mention pointless). It's Scream 4. I happen to like the Scream films - not out of some artistic admiration, but because they don't take themselves too seriously. I don't know, this article just felt overly critical of a movie franchise that didn't necessarily warrant it. Scream isn't exactly a deep and meaningful flick revealing the inner workings of the human soul, you know? :rolleyes:

Os Cangaceiros
14th June 2011, 09:15
Couldn't even get past the first two paragraphes, which

1) snobbishly relegate the entire horror genre to the "generally retrograde" category, even though the author probably knows close to nothing about it (except stereotypes). The author has probably never heard of Gerald Kargl's "Angst", Agusti Villaronga's "In A Glass Cage", or John McNaughton's "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer", or even modern horror like "Martyrs" or "The Loved Ones". Horror is a diverse and complex genre.

and 2) somehow construes Wes Craven to be some kind of demigod and innovator (LOL!) within the genre. Ironically the author would probably hold his first film (Last House on the Left) to be both "repugnant" and "tedious", considering the fact that it's an exploitation film, and not a very good one at that. Craven is a highly overrated director, and the only film of his I do consider a classic is A Nightmare On Elm Street. The only thing Craven innovated was turning the genre into some ridiculous self-referencing pomo "aren't we so ironic and clever" piece of absolute shit with the Scream series.

/horror nerd rage

Jimmie Higgins
14th June 2011, 09:24
It does sort of read like a review of some newly-released Criterion Collection art house movie, but that's just WSWS being WSWS. I'd love to see readers of the review make use of the "leaflet" option and pass it out in front of theaters.Yeah their movie reviews always tend to be way over-critical IMO, but this one I thought was a more reasonable one.

Sometimes their reviews are like, "'Air Bud 6' could have been an enjoyable movie except that it presents a completely conformist mindset reflecting capitalist ideas about the family and sports-playing dogs". Well no shit, you mean that Hollywood sometimes reflects the ideas common in capitalist society!? Hollywood being conformist is a dog bite man news story IMO.

Jimmie Higgins
14th June 2011, 09:35
and 2) somehow construes Wes Craven to be some kind of demigod and innovator (LOL!) within the genre. Ironically the author would probably hold his first film (Last House on the Left) to be both "repugnant" and "tedious", considering the fact that it's an exploitation film, and not a very good one at that. Craven is a highly overrated director, and the only film of his I do consider a classic is A Nightmare On Elm Street. The only thing Craven innovated was turning the genre into some ridiculous self-referencing pomo "aren't we so ironic and clever" piece of absolute shit with the Scream series.

/horror nerd rage

I love the genre's high points (which can be anything from self-consciously anti-genre "high" horror to just innovative low-budget things) but the low points are really low. I'm also not that much of a Craven fan, but I think of that 70s to 80s era he is definitely significant and stands second only to John Carpenter among the 80s mainstream horror mainstays in trying to move the genre in a more populist and less exploitation direction at a time when the genre was going from the 70s to the slasher 80s. "People Under the Stairs" and "Candyman" among others were his attempts at making horror films about the "American Nightmare" and horror films with populist themes compared to the crude puritan moralist subtext of most 80s slashers. In other words, in Craven's more interesting movies, the horror comes from some kind of social crime in the past - either vigilante murder hiding below the Suburban myth in Nightmare on Elm Street or Gentrification in Candyman or Housing discrimination and ghettoization in People Under the Stairs whereas in "Friday the 13th" or many other slashers, the subtext of the horror is anxiety about sexual and cultural morality in America.

Os Cangaceiros
14th June 2011, 09:39
Candyman was Clive Barker's film, not Craven's. At least he wrote it. I don't think he directed it, though.

In any case, Craven didn't have anything to do with it.

Os Cangaceiros
14th June 2011, 09:49
I disagree that the 80's were a low-point for horror, too...there were a ton of great, innovative genre films during that decade. Near Dark, Re-Animator, The Fly, In A Glass Cage, The Moonlight Sonata, Nekromantik, Possession...the list goes on and on. He's not even in the same league as, say, Stuart Gordon.

Jimmie Higgins
14th June 2011, 10:40
I disagree that the 80's were a low-point for horror, too...there were a ton of great, innovative genre films during that decade. Near Dark, Re-Animator, The Fly, In A Glass Cage, The Moonlight Sonata, Nekromantik, Possession...the list goes on and on. He's not even in the same league as, say, Stuart Gordon.I meant slashers specifically, but I think the 80s were a period of decline for Hollywood movies in general. The collapse of the old Hollywood system combined with a period of social struggle created an opening for many interesting Hollywood (or US) movies in the late 60s and through the 70s but a new paradigm consolodated in the 1980s at the same time as the retreat of the social movements. The horror genre was not immune to that and the major trend was the slasher genre, not Cronenburg or things like that whereas in the 1970s the major Hollywood trend had been psychological/social horror often stemming from the political and social climate of the time. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, for example, has as much to do with some kind of inherent cancer at the center of American culture that produces racism and war than standard hippes-get-chased-by-crazy-hillbillies movies of that time. Even in Jaws, the real antagonists are the town leaders who would rather let people get gobbled up than risk loosing some tourists.

But on a personal level the 80s horror films I like are generally from outside Hollywood although I do enjoy the horror-comedies from that time like "American Werewolf in London". Even the "high-horror" movies of that time are generally too cynical and misanthropic in my opinion - but it's just personal taste.


Candyman was Clive Barker's film, not Craven's. At least he wrote it. I don't think he directed it, though.Ok, my bad - it looks like a Wes Craven movie though:lol:

praxis1966
14th June 2011, 19:18
The one thing you're leaving out about 80s films, JH, is the coming to fruition of the summer blockbuster/popcorn film. Personally, I think that did more harm than anything else to Hollywood. Ironically, and perhaps coincidentally, that's also when independent filmmaking really began to take hold. Granted, Cassavetes had been doing it since '59, but the practice didn't really begin to snowball until the latter half of the 70s/early 80s.

x359594
14th June 2011, 20:02
The Marxist critic Robin Wood gave an excellent overview of the horror genre in the introduction to the anthology The American Nightmare. The essay has been widely re-printed and more or less set the terms of critical discussion of the horror film for a couple of decades: (excerpt): "...I have been laying the foundations, stone by stone, for a theory of the American horror film which (without being exhaustive) should provide us with a means of approaching the films seriously and responsibly. One could, I think, approach any of the genres from the same starting point; it is the horror film that responds in the most clear-*cut and direct way, because central to it is the actual dramatization of the dual concept of the repressed/the Other, in the figure of the Monster. One might say that the true subject of the horror genre is the struggle for recognition of all that our [capitalist] civilization represses or oppresses, its re*-emergence dramatized, as in our nightmares, as an object of horror, a matter for terror, and the happy ending (when it exists) typically signify*ing the restoration of repression. I think my analysis of what is re*pressed, combined with my account of the Other as it functions within our culture, will be found to offer a comprehensive survey of horror film monsters from German Expressionism on..."

Also recommended is Carol Clover's Men, Women, and Chain Saws.

Sam_b
14th June 2011, 20:08
Scream isn't exactly a deep and meaningful flick revealing the inner workings of the human soul, you know? :rolleyes:

So basically you're saying that it is impossible for mass-appeal cinema to make political or sociological points?

Pirate Utopian
14th June 2011, 20:53
I hated the ending most of all about this movie. The rest of the movie sucked but they could've won me back by just letting Jill win. But no, cornyness to rescue as all of the three original castmembers survive.

Seriously they could've killed off Sydney and Gail and Dewey could've left town because he's all sad about his wife. Voila, a fresh start. It would have been interesting to see a movie series where this deranged killer pretends to be a victim.

They discover she's the killer because she knows Gail got stabbed in the shoulder. She could've seen Gail at the crimescene as she was there, or read about on the internet seeing as Gail was a semi-celebrity. But in this movie it's hard evidence she's a killer.

Also they were terrible with social media, they brush it off in a few jokes. Why? It would've been interesting to have the killer stalk his victims online.

Os Cangaceiros
15th June 2011, 01:28
Also recommended is Carol Clover's Men, Women, and Chain Saws.

She's interviewed extensively in a recent film called "S&Man", a documentary about bizarre underground cinema.

She has some really strange views about why people like horror, including the idea that people like to identify with the victim because there's a part in all of us that wants to be victimized, or something like that.

thesadmafioso
15th June 2011, 03:09
The WSWS takes every review too seriously.

Le Socialiste
15th June 2011, 04:29
So basically you're saying that it is impossible for mass-appeal cinema to make political or sociological points?

How'd you get that from my statement? I was refering to the Scream films (which I happen to like), not making a claim concerning the ability of "mass-appeal cinema" to put forward sociopolitical messages. I think many can - and do.

Le Socialiste
15th June 2011, 04:35
I hated the ending most of all about this movie. The rest of the movie sucked but they could've won me back by just letting Jill win. But no, cornyness to rescue as all of the three original castmembers survive.

Seriously they could've killed off Sydney and Gail and Dewey could've left town because he's all sad about his wife. Voila, a fresh start. It would have been interesting to see a movie series where this deranged killer pretends to be a victim.

They discover she's the killer because she knows Gail got stabbed in the shoulder. She could've seen Gail at the crimescene as she was there, or read about on the internet seeing as Gail was a semi-celebrity. But in this movie it's hard evidence she's a killer.

Also they were terrible with social media, they brush it off in a few jokes. Why? It would've been interesting to have the killer stalk his victims online.


While I did like Scream 4 (I thought it held up fairly well after a decade-long absence), I agree with just about everything you've said. I liked the possibility that Jill could've gotten away with it, becoming the "star" only to wind up being the focus of some new deranged killer(s). If Kirby had survived, that would also add to the tension (she only saw Charlie, not Jill). It would be an interesting twist that I'd enjoy watching. Alas, that's not how it turned out. About Jill and Gale's identical shoulder wounds, I thought Jill was at the house (to kill her mother) the whole time? Unless she was watching everything go down between Gale and Charlie via webcam (most likely)...

Tablo
15th June 2011, 04:55
I've always liked slasher films because they are just mindless entertainment most of the time. Sometimes I like to chill and watch a shitty movie without any deeper meaning to it. I think the fact they even did a review for Scream 4 is ridiculous. Everyone know what to expect when they go to see a slasher film. No one seriously expects it to be that good.

Os Cangaceiros
15th June 2011, 09:46
I meant slashers specifically, but I think the 80s were a period of decline for Hollywood movies in general. The collapse of the old Hollywood system combined with a period of social struggle created an opening for many interesting Hollywood (or US) movies in the late 60s and through the 70s but a new paradigm consolodated in the 1980s at the same time as the retreat of the social movements. The horror genre was not immune to that and the major trend was the slasher genre, not Cronenburg or things like that whereas in the 1970s the major Hollywood trend had been psychological/social horror often stemming from the political and social climate of the time. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, for example, has as much to do with some kind of inherent cancer at the center of American culture that produces racism and war than standard hippes-get-chased-by-crazy-hillbillies movies of that time. Even in Jaws, the real antagonists are the town leaders who would rather let people get gobbled up than risk loosing some tourists.

But on a personal level the 80s horror films I like are generally from outside Hollywood although I do enjoy the horror-comedies from that time like "American Werewolf in London". Even the "high-horror" movies of that time are generally too cynical and misanthropic in my opinion - but it's just personal taste.

That's a very Hollywood-centric viewpoint, though. I hardly think that the 70's were universally a time for "high art", as far as horror was concerned. At roughly the same time that TCM '74 was being made, you had Hammer studios in the UK (who, while an excellent production company, were never all that concerned with anything besides telling a straight gothic tale most of the time), trashy Italian thrillers (giallos), Jean Rollin in France (making vampire erotica) and Paul Naschy doing his thing in Spain, usually featuring him lumbering around onscreen with ridiculous werewolf make-up and a bunch of attractive Spanish women getting naked. I'd say there was just as much "trash" in the 70's as there was in the 80's, and generally I don't think filmmakers were more civic-minded back then.

The 80's were the decade of slashers, there's no doubt about that. But I think you'd find that there were a great many films made then that were "socially conscious" as well...Combat Shock, for example, while perhaps not strictly "horror" is one example (it was not a Hollywood film, but neither was TCM, an independent film who's production/distribution turned out to be connected with organized crime lol) Or what about CHUD? What could be more political than the government turning homeless people into grotesque mutated freaks, I ask you?!?!

One thing I will say for the 70's is that it basically cemented in the templates for a lot of what horror would replicate endlessly. Black Christmas, TCM, Halloween, Dawn of the Dead...incredibly influential.

Pirate Utopian
15th June 2011, 13:36
About Jill and Gale's identical shoulder wounds, I thought Jill was at the house (to kill her mother) the whole time? Unless she was watching everything go down between Gale and Charlie via webcam (most likely)...

Well then Jill still could've read it on the internet. I'm sure she'd have a smartphone or a laptop.

Le Socialiste
16th June 2011, 03:01
That's what I'm saying. I suspect that's how it went down. :)

Jimmie Higgins
16th June 2011, 22:37
That's a very Hollywood-centric viewpoint, though.Yes, that's my point, if we are talking about mainstream films and the main trends in cinema. As Praxis pointed out, the 1980s also laid the groundwork for the emergence of the indies as the old B-movie system collapsed along with the decline of the studio system and it was harder for new film-brats to emerge (without going indie) because there was less space for new and untested filmmakers in Hollywood after the 1970s. But these are under-currents if we are discussing the overall trend of the Industry rather than artistry. I don't know if it makes that much sense to compare Scream 4 (let alone some Friday the 13th squeal) to a forgin or independent movie or even a hollywood produced movie by an auteur - there are different demands and expectations both from the audience and the movie bosses.

x359594
16th June 2011, 23:59
The changes in the Hollywood film industry can be dated back to the Consent Decree of 1948 when the studios had to sell off their exhibition chains. The next blow was television. By the mid 1970s the studios started to rely on block busters like Jaws and then Star Wars with ancillary revenue in the form of toys, games,comic books, paperbacks, etc. This was followed by buy-outs and mergers and acquisitions. For example, Gulf-Western bought Paramount, MGM went through several owners, 20th Century-Fox ended up in the hands of Rupert Murdoch.

These buy-outs were followed by the trade wars of the 1980s and the gradual rise of independent film making and the film market phenomena where indies are screened for distributors who purchase rights (foreign pictures are also acquired for US distribution at these markets.) Then there's the direct to video market (the Japanese industry has survived on this since the late 1980s; Miike Takashi got his start there.) Ulli Lommel has a deal with Anchor Bay for direct to video movies; he specializes in horror films and knock offs of big studio releases.

For awhile the made for TV movie replaced the B movie or programmer. Don Siegel's The Killers was made for TV (but considered too violent for broadcast so it was released as a feature.) Lamont Johnson and Paul Wendkos made several fine TV movies (The Execution of Private Slovik, Crisis at Central High, The Legend of Lizzie Borden, A Woman Called Moses.)

praxis1966
17th June 2011, 04:27
Not to play kiss ass or anything, but you can trust x to come in and drop some knowledge and set us all straight. If we ever get around to having any more Chit-Chat Awards, I'm rigging the election so he wins best mod.;)

L.A.P.
17th June 2011, 16:48
"People Under the Stairs" and "Candyman" among others were his attempts at making horror films about the "American Nightmare" and horror films with populist themes compared to the crude puritan moralist subtext of most 80s slashers... Gentrification in Candyman or Housing discrimination and ghettoization in People Under the Stairs...

Could you please elaborate on this, after reading plot summaries I still couldn't see gentrification and ghettoization as themes of Candyman and People Under the Stairs.

Jimmie Higgins
17th June 2011, 22:48
Could you please elaborate on this, after reading plot summaries I still couldn't see gentrification and ghettoization as themes of Candyman and People Under the Stairs.It'a been a while since I've seen them, but in Candyman yuppies living in a high-rise condo are haunted and it turns out that the condos were originally projects... there's more to it, but like I said, it's been a while. It's part of the long-tradition of American horror where people are haunted by the spirits of the theft and brutality that laid the ground for X town, X house, etc. Poltergeist and The Shining are two prime examples... unease about American "progress" being built on top of the graves of the native people. Sleepy Hollow is one also of those stories and filled with details about how Crane, an anglo-yankee was a threat to the dutch town - he is haunted by stories of a German ghost and interwoven are details about how before the dutch, the native Americans were displaced... maybe leaving some vengeful spirits of their own in the woods.

"People under the stairs" has evil landlords as the antagonists. They hate the people who live in the ghetto and rip them off - I don't know if it goes any deeper than that, but even a shallow movie about how landlords are shit and how profiting off of ghettoizeation is monstrous is fine by me.:lol:

Os Cangaceiros
18th June 2011, 07:55
Candyman (played by genre favorite Tony Todd) was originally a slave who was murdered, too. So ya got the whole slavery guilt thing going on as well...

Fawkes
20th June 2011, 18:11
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jun2011/scr4-j06.shtml

His popular reputation was established with A Nightmare on Elm Street and the rest of that series in the 1980s
He only directed the first and seventh ones.

Os Cangaceiros
20th June 2011, 20:54
If he had directed "Dream Warriors" I may have had to re-evaluate my opinion on his legacy. That entry fucking ruled.

Lyev
22nd June 2011, 23:45
1) snobbishly relegate the entire horror genre to the "generally retrograde" category, even though the author probably knows close to nothing about it (except stereotypes). The author has probably never heard of Gerald Kargl's "Angst", Agusti Villaronga's "In A Glass Cage", or John McNaughton's "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer", or even modern horror like "Martyrs" or "The Loved Ones". Horror is a diverse and complex genre.I am no horror movie expert at all (vindicated by the fact that I've barely heard of any of the films you mention), but I happened to catch ~30 mins of "The Loved Ones" a few weeks ago. The scene that I found when I turned the TV on was someone's head being drilled through in a dimly-lit room. tHIS does not seem to come outside of, o rchallenge the usual conventions of the genre. However, I have seen others give it a very positive review (noticed it in third place in someone's "100 favourite horror movie list"), and maybe my ignorance concerning the genre is brought to light here (plus I didn't see all of the film)---but what was so good/interesting about this film, or this kind of horror film in general? (I did kind of like the Terminator-esque final scene where she drags herself across the road with the knife though.) thanks

Os Cangaceiros
23rd June 2011, 02:44
I am no horror movie expert at all (vindicated by the fact that I've barely heard of any of the films you mention), but I happened to catch ~30 mins of "The Loved Ones" a few weeks ago. The scene that I found when I turned the TV on was someone's head being drilled through in a dimly-lit room. tHIS does not seem to come outside of, o rchallenge the usual conventions of the genre. However, I have seen others give it a very positive review (noticed it in third place in someone's "100 favourite horror movie list"), and maybe my ignorance concerning the genre is brought to light here (plus I didn't see all of the film)---but what was so good/interesting about this film, or this kind of horror film in general? (I did kind of like the Terminator-esque final scene where she drags herself across the road with the knife though.) thanks

It's not that it is especially original...it's just that it executes the formula a lot better than a lot of other films, as far as cinematography, acting, characterization etc. is concerned. The template of "crazy people kidnap non-crazy person for reasons that only make sense if you're crazy" isn't original, but really, what is original anymore? "All knowledge is banal." - Raoul Vaneigem. That quote could just as easily apply to, well, any genre of film. It's all about how a film's told, and the Loved Ones story was executed very competently (although some people have complained about it's wavering between a "after school special" high school story and a grim horror film. There's a lot of little things I like about it: the garish, tacky girlyness of the main antagonist combined with her horrific sadism, the weird melancholy tone that runs throughout the film, Robin McLeavy's outstanding and extremely memorable performance, etc.

Os Cangaceiros
23rd June 2011, 02:52
(Although there are other horror films that are a lot more subversive and "convention challenging" than The Loved Ones is...it's just that TLO is an example of a well-told "killer clan" film, which is probably my favorite subgenre, and that's why I like it so much.)

For a more interesting send-up of genre conventions, try this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1465522/) or this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0437857/)