Irish polical prisoners

[fionntan]

Picture of french communists showing support for Irish POWs.

[fionntan]

['against english imperialism, long live armed struggle']

[fionntan]

Belfast 32CSM news sheet ..

[Marxach-Léinínach]

Picture of french communists showing support for Irish POWs.

If only there was more of that from certain Irish "socialists" in the south

[Coggeh]

Belfast 32CSM news sheet ..
Why are you posting 32csm filth on this site again...?

[Irish Left]

Why are you posting 32csm filth on this site again...?

Thats the kind of post to be expected from a SP armchair revolutionary.

[maumaurebel]

Why is everyone so scared of the 32CSM?

Is it because they are speaking the truth about what is really going on in Maghaberry and also in the 6 Counties?

The brutality in that jail puts Britain on a level par with what is going on in Guantanamo or even worse.

It is a disgrace and the authorities are so afraid of it being spoken of that they will arrest anyone in protests or arranging flags or holding bits of paper.

Sorry if it makes you afraid but the 32 arent going away.

[Irish Left]

To many cowardly socialist groups in Ireland like a flag waving contest. At least the 32s have the balls to get out there and be active.

[Irish Left]

http://liberationirlande.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/freemapr1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zR2zM3hvALw/TdLUrD7ykpI/AAAAAAAAAnY/oc91Aiw3CMA/s1600/228301_110359112385912_100002354707362_104353_5875 672_n.jpg

[fionntan]

As the above comrades have said the SP fear the 32 and there politics.The reason is we "Dare" to bring up that big no no that is the British occupation in the six counties,Political prisoners,and are a movement within the working class communties up and down the country.As opposed to a bunch of rich kids who darnt speak of the national question.And whos ranks and ground work show us to be communists as opposed to paying lip service to a tag.

[Irish Left]

As the above comrades have said the SP fear the 32 and there politics.The reason is we "Dare" to bring up that big no no that is the British occupation in the six counties,Political prisoners,and are a movement within the working class communties up and down the country.As opposed to a bunch of rich kids who darnt speak of the national question.And whos ranks and ground work show us to be communists as opposed to paying lip service to a tag.

Well said. The SP love waving flags, shouting about fighting back, placards about fighting back but when you suggest or attempt anything apart from waving flags and singing they sh1te themselves and soon disappear.
That goes for their wee friends in NISA too.
And asking the state to have a protest against it ffs, catch a grip.

[fionntan]

I like the idea that they now refer to 32CSM as filth. We must being doing something right. It would suit him/her better to attend this...


Protest in Support of the Maghaberry POWs


There will be a Protest in Cork in support of the Maghaberry POWs and to raise awareness of there phlight and fight for Political status!

Assemble

3pm Saturday 18th June

DAUNT SQUARE,CORK CITY CENTER.

Organised by CORK 32CSM

[Irish Left]

I like the idea that they now refer to 32CSM as filth. We must being doing something right. It would suit him/her better to attend this...


Protest in Support of the Maghaberry POWs


There will be a Protest in Cork in support of the Maghaberry POWs and to raise awareness of there phlight and fight for Political status!

Assemble

3pm Saturday 18th June

DAUNT SQUARE,CORK CITY CENTER.

Organised by CORK 32CSM

No no no they couldn't do that. They are bad sectarian terrorists who and to kill protestants.......
They have internet revolutions to take care of.

[Coggeh]

Thats the kind of post to be expected from a SP armchair revolutionary.
Armchair revolutionary? Seriously? Yes the SP are full of armchair revolutionaries which is why we are the biggest revolutionary group in ireland. Come up with real criticisms next time please.

The 32csm are the political wing of the real Ira an anti working class organisation full of faceless scumbags, who have no links with real working class struggle, and put more effort into irrelevant campaigns than the real issues facing working class people


As the above comrades have said the SP fear the 32 and there politics.The reason is we "Dare" to bring up that big no no that is the British occupation in the six counties,Political prisoners,and are a movement within the working class communties up and down the country.As opposed to a bunch of rich kids who darnt speak of the national question.And whos ranks and ground work show us to be communists as opposed to paying lip service to a tag.Rich kids? seriously? get a grip. We do speak of the national question:
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/dandr/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/publications/troubles/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/terrorism/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/leftunity/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/tdnp/

If only you took five minutes to actually find out about our position rather than listening to other idiots who keep spewing the same nonsense that we ignore it.

You are paying lip service to the tag, you think being a communist means running around with balaclavas and ak47's and looking awesome? when did Lenin,Marx, Engels, Trotsky or even Stalin ever , EVER do this? You constantly call SP or trotskyists fashionable left, im sorry but theres nothing fashionable about selling papers in the pissing rain, or working your ass off 4 times a week trying to intervene into struggles or create campaigns against the austerity measures that are facing us. Read a book and stop ranting and raving about the same old outdated crap, you can post all the murals you want it doesn't change the fact the 32CSM never were, never will be, a socialist organisation. The socialist party is active in the creating the anti water tax campaign along with the WP, SWP and others, involved in dozens of campaigns against local hospital closures or cuts, and many others. This is what it means to be a revolutionary organisation, it doesn't mean removing yourself from working class struggles and spewing on about the occupation 24/7 while ignoring everything else.

Also i'd just like to point to something, according to Thatcher, the thing that brought her goverment down was not anything to with republicanism or anything else, it was the anti-Poll tax campaign, started by militant(aka the SP)

[Coggeh]

No no no they couldn't do that. They are bad sectarian terrorists who and to kill protestants.......
They have internet revolutions to take care of.
OMG, how the hell are the socialist party internet revolutionaries? honestly. we are one of the few left organisations that are constantly active and doing work in the workplaces, communities and elsewhere

[Coggeh]

I like the idea that they now refer to 32CSM as filth. We must being doing something right. It would suit him/her better to attend this...


One question, after seaching through 32csm policy documents, not finding one iota or hint at socialism the question remains why as a 32csm member are you on a site for the revolutionary left? or if you are a leftist why are you in the 32's?

[Irish Left]

One question, after seaching through 32csm policy documents, not finding one iota or hint at socialism the question remains why as a 32csm member are you on a site for the revolutionary left? or if you are a leftist why are you in the 32's?

The 32csm are a political pressure group and not a political party. They are not officially socialist but have done more than the SP or SWP. They have been involved in every protest against the cuts north and south.
Their actions are revolutionary and the group that people link them too are just as revolutionary. The majority of their members are also socialists.

[Irish Left]

Armchair revolutionary? Seriously? Yes the SP are full of armchair revolutionaries which is why we are the biggest revolutionary group in ireland. Come up with real criticisms next time please.

The 32csm are the political wing of the real Ira an anti working class organisation full of faceless scumbags, who have no links with real working class struggle, and put more effort into irrelevant campaigns than the real issues facing working class people

Rich kids? seriously? get a grip. We do speak of the national question:
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/dandr/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/publications/troubles/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/terrorism/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/leftunity/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/tdnp/

If only you took five minutes to actually find out about our position rather than listening to other idiots who keep spewing the same nonsense that we ignore it.

You are paying lip service to the tag, you think being a communist means running around with balaclavas and ak47's and looking awesome? when did Lenin,Marx, Engels, Trotsky or even Stalin ever , EVER do this? You constantly call SP or trotskyists fashionable left, im sorry but theres nothing fashionable about selling papers in the pissing rain, or working your ass off 4 times a week trying to intervene into struggles or create campaigns against the austerity measures that are facing us. Read a book and stop ranting and raving about the same old outdated crap, you can post all the murals you want it doesn't change the fact the 32CSM never were, never will be, a socialist organisation. The socialist party is active in the creating the anti water tax campaign along with the WP, SWP and others, involved in dozens of campaigns against local hospital closures or cuts, and many others. This is what it means to be a revolutionary organisation, it doesn't mean removing yourself from working class struggles and spewing on about the occupation 24/7 while ignoring everything else.

Also i'd just like to point to something, according to Thatcher, the thing that brought her goverment down was not anything to with republicanism or anything else, it was the anti-Poll tax campaign, started by militant(aka the SP)

THe biggest revolutionary group! Are you nuts seriously?
THe 32s are NOT the political wing of the IRA but they have done more for the working class than the SP ever will. THey have been at the forefront of all protests against cuts. They are also involved in tackling crime and drugs accross Ireland. YOu think the ongoing occupation of Ireland is irrelavent? You will never have any socialism in Ireland with British presence. None of them give a position and only talk about booklets.
I have yet to see the SP promote a the national question in anyway.
Im not a supporter of the 32s but I will defend them. And fair play to those who have the guts to take up arms and put their lives on the line to fight the empire. I don't support them but I will never condemn them or hinder their struggle.
The SP are the trendy left. Im a trot too if you must know. And the 32s have done more than sell papers. They take part in protests accross no matter the weather, they get battered of the streets by garda and PSNI. They are contantly stopped and harrassed by the RUC. Get their doors kicked in in the middle of the night by the scum. Their children have been sexually assulted during these searches. They get attacked and their arms broken by the RUC but rather than the RUC getting in trouble they throw them in jail.
They are arrested while holding their children in their arms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2lyc0uNZIc

General Secretary of the 32s Marian Price is currently interned in Maghaberry Prison on her own in an all male prison for nothing!

The workers party? Didn't think you would like the super sticks. You know who they where linked to don't you?

And can I ask why the SP refuses to work with the IRSP who are more communist they you's every will be and have done more for the working classes than you's ever have or will do?

[Irish Left]

http://irspscotland.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/powposter.jpg

[Coggeh]

The 32csm are a political pressure group and not a political party. They are not officially socialist but have done more than the SP or SWP. They have been involved in every protest against the cuts north and south.
Their actions are revolutionary and the group that people link them too are just as revolutionary. The majority of their members are also socialists.
Not officially socialist?all i needed to know.

And no they haven't done more than either of the SP, SWP, WP, or even CPI at that. Their actions are nothing but revolutionary, you think killing drug dealers like topper stanton is a revolutionary act? And btw i have yet to see the 32csm at any of the protests against the cuts of which their have been loads that i have attended both in Cork and Dublin.

[Irish Left]

Not officially socialist?all i needed to know.

And no they haven't done more than either of the SP, SWP, WP, or even CPI at that. Their actions are nothing but revolutionary, you think killing drug dealers like topper stanton is a revolutionary act? And btw i have yet to see the 32csm at any of the protests against the cuts of which their have been loads that i have attended both in Cork and Dublin.

If you haven't seen them at the protests you are blind. Sorry but its true, for a start go on their website. If I have time tomorrow I will give you a proper response.

[Coggeh]

THe biggest revolutionary group! Are you nuts seriously?
THe 32s are NOT the political wing of the IRA but they have done more for the working class than the SP ever will. THey have been at the forefront of all protests against cuts. They are also involved in tackling crime and drugs accross Ireland. YOu think the ongoing occupation of Ireland is irrelavent? You will never have any socialism in Ireland with British presence. None of them give a position and only talk about booklets. They are the political wing of the Real IRA. And no they have not, have they stopped A&E's from shutting down through working class community based campaigns? have they lead mass movements against things like the bin charges and water tax in the 90's? have they set up campaigns against social welfare cuts, are they active in the trade union movement demanding more radical action against the cuts? where will they be when working class people need a voice to oppose the JLC cuts, or the SNA cuts or the water privatization, taking about the british occupation and about evil drug dealers i suppose because fighting on the bread and butter issues is just to trendy for them of course.
And for the last time we don't ignore the occupation, read them again if you must, if we ignored like you said then i wouldn't be here debating about it with you now would i ?



I have yet to see the SP promote a the national question in anyway.
Im not a supporter of the 32s but I will defend them. And fair play to those who have the guts to take up arms and put their lives on the line to fight the empire. I don't support them but I will never condemn them or hinder their struggle.
Yes fair play to those who shoot british soldiers, PSNI officers, drug dealers and civilians (accidentally, maybe, but doesn't change the fact) who play into the hands of reactionary scum like ian paisley and gerry adams and set back the movement for working class unity.





The SP are the trendy left. Im a trot too if you must know. And the 32s have done more than sell papers. They take part in protests accross no matter the weather, they get battered of the streets by garda and PSNI.
Your clearly aren't a trot, and if you were i suggest reading his pamplet about why marxists oppose individual terrorism i.e groups like the 32csm, INLA and the IRA. and no the SP is anything but trendy its alot trendier to spew nonsense about guns, and killing de brits and attacking others who disagree with murdering people on a whim in the name of "justice".


They are contantly stopped and harrassed by the RUC. Get their doors kicked in in the middle of the night by the scum. Their children have been sexually assulted during these searches. They get attacked and their arms broken by the RUC but rather than the RUC getting in trouble they throw them in jail.
And what exactly is this supposed to do? They got in trouble from the police? they got there doors kicked in? whats your point? yes i oppose police brutality in every respect including this of course but just because an organisation was attacked by the police doesn't mean its revolutionary.




The workers party? Didn't think you would like the super sticks. You know who they where linked to don't you?
I'm aware. But at least the WP provide a decent voice for real working class struggles and work with the SP on many different issues.


And can I ask why the SP refuses to work with the IRSP who are more communist they you's every will be and have done more for the working classes than you's ever have or will do?
Ha.

Oh and by the way, your 32 buddies were the ones responsible for Omagh. "Have done more than the SP" well ya, we haven't killed anyone i suppose.

[Coggeh]

If you haven't seen them at the protests you are blind. Sorry but its true, for a start go on their website. If I have time tomorrow I will give you a proper response.

I have been on their site for Cork and other than protesting against the Queen and attending mayday protests. Nothing.

[Irish Left]

I have been on their site for Cork and other than protesting against the Queen and attending mayday protests. Nothing.

Well I am telling you they have been involved in most protests across the country in some form. As im not a member or supporter I don't know about everything they do. Their website is sh1te though.
They also had members arrested for occupying a bank during on of the protests in Dublin.
They where very visible in both Dublin and cork, protesting against the commander and chief of the British armed forces.
I didn't see much sign of the SP?
They also regularly hold protests in support of the POWs, Again where's the sp?
Again i'll reply to your longer posts when iv time later.

[Coggeh]

Well I am telling you they have been involved in most protests across the country in some form. As im not a member or supporter I don't know about everything they do. Their website is sh1te though.
They also had members arrested for occupying a bank during on of the protests in Dublin.
They where very visible in both Dublin and cork, protesting against the commander and chief of the British armed forces.
I didn't see much sign of the SP?
They also regularly hold protests in support of the POWs, Again where's the sp?
Again i'll reply to your longer posts when iv time later.

I never claimed that the SP attend those protests.

[fionntan]

SP tool..:laugh:

[Cork Socialist]

SP tool..:laugh:
Really mature, Insults over the Internet.......

This is why people think Left republicans are idiots, because they freak out at anyone who disagrees with them.

[Hoggy_RS]

If only the situation in maghaberry was happening in Palestine or somewhere far away, the SP would be all over it!

[Aurora]

If only the situation in maghaberry was happening in Palestine or somewhere far away, the SP would be all over it!

Yep, i hear israeli prisons are practically hotels, no brutality or racism at all.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

Yep, i hear israeli prisons are practically hotels, no brutality or racism at all.

You're missing the point; The point is that the existence of British Controlled Northern Ireland maintains the same Imperialist Neo-Colonial relations that the occupation of rightfully Palestinian Territories does. Not to mention that as well, Republican Prisoners of War for their service against Neo-Colonialism and Imperialism within Northern Ireland are subjected to abuse, torment and torture by their captors. It is as well pointing out that Left Communists and Trotskyites completely abandon Revolutionary Struggle against existing Imperialist and Neo-Colonial Relations and only seek to confront these relations when it is opportune for them to do so. :rolleyes:

While accusing certain Political Parties and Ideologies that are confronting Imperialism and Neo-Colonialism as not being 'Socialist Enough' for not continually mentioning the Proletariat infinitely. Meanwhile, at the same time not proposing Anti-Imperialist and Anti-Neo-Colonial positions towards the existing relations and becoming utterly irrelevant.



Really mature, Insults over the Internet.......

This is why people think Left republicans are idiots, because they freak out at anyone who disagrees with them.

'Really mature, Insults over the Internet.......'

You're rather silly as in the other Republican Thread you and various other Trotskyites and Left-Communists were being insulting towards Left-Republicanism and those carrying out the struggle against Neo-Colonialism and Imperialism.

'This is why people think Left republicans are idiots, because they freak out at anyone who disagrees with them.'

You're silly.

[Hoggy_RS]

Yep, i hear israeli prisons are practically hotels, no brutality or racism at all.
I can't believe it was that easy to get you to proof my point?:lol:

Daily strip searches, ill prisoners being refused medication, 23 hour lock ups, sometimes going 24 hours without food. Israeli prisons are fair bad alright.

Oh shit, I accidently described Maghaberry.

[Aurora]

You're missing the point
No im not, i was intentionally ignoring that sad attempt to jab at the SP and highlighting Hoggy RS's implication that israeli prisons don't contain brutality.
The rest of your post is useless.

I can't believe it was that easy to get you to proof my point?
How could i prove your point, im not a member of the SP sorry to disappoint you. Better luck next time.

Btw theres practically nothing in this thread about the actual issue at hand, from this the republican posters seem to has imagined that the SP and others somehow supports the current prison system or police brutality.
While it's always useful to out a couple of members of supporting terrorism, torture and the murder of workers and to show what a shitty capitalist organisation the 32csm is, perhaps it would be useful to get back to the OP?
So OP, i don't see any french communists? :confused:
And do you have more information on the prison, the prisoners and why they were imprisoned?

[Marxach-Léinínach]

No im not, i was intentionally ignoring that sad attempt to jab at the SP and highlighting Hoggy RS's implication that israeli prisons don't contain brutality.


He wasn't saying that. He was saying if Maghaberry was someplace far away yous would be all over it

[Hoggy_RS]

No im not, i was intentionally ignoring that sad attempt to jab at the SP and highlighting Hoggy RS's implication that israeli prisons don't contain brutality.
The rest of your post is useless.

How could i prove your point, im not a member of the SP sorry to disappoint you. Better luck next time.

Btw theres practically nothing in this thread about the actual issue at hand, from this the republican posters seem to has imagined that the SP and others somehow supports the current prison system or police brutality.
While it's always useful to out a couple of members of supporting terrorism, torture and the murder of workers and to show what a shitty capitalist organisation the 32csm is, perhaps it would be useful to get back to the OP?
So OP, i don't see any french communists? :confused:
And do you have more information on the prison, the prisoners and why they were imprisoned?
Christ almighty kid, trip to the opticians is in order. Where did I imply anything about an Israeli prison?

What does this have to do with the 32CSM? There are prisoners from the IRSM and the continuity movement too. It's not just real IRA prisoners.

But you wouldn't care about socialist activists spending years in prison for such crimes as allegedly being a member of a non-armed group like the INLA.

There are different prisoners from different movements, being charged with different things. http://www.irishfreedomcommittee.net/POWs/IPOWS_LIST.htm
http://www.irsp.ie/TnF/pows.html

[Niall]

Not officially socialist?all i needed to know.

And no they haven't done more than either of the SP, SWP, WP, or even CPI at that. Their actions are nothing but revolutionary, you think killing drug dealers like topper stanton is a revolutionary act? And btw i have yet to see the 32csm at any of the protests against the cuts of which their have been loads that i have attended both in Cork and Dublin.

are you actually accusing the 32 csm of killing drugdealers???
If you havent seen them at any protests then you obviously havent been there yourself

[Niall]

I can't believe it was that easy to get you to proof my point?:lol:

Daily strip searches, ill prisoners being refused medication, 23 hour lock ups, sometimes going 24 hours without food. Israeli prisons are fair bad alright.

Oh shit, I accidently described Maghaberry.

dont forget abut having prison guards illegally sit in on a one to one doctors consultation

[Niall]

They are the political wing of the Real IRA. And no they have not, have they stopped A&E's from shutting down through working class community based campaigns? have they lead mass movements against things like the bin charges and water tax in the 90's? have they set up campaigns against social welfare cuts, are they active in the trade union movement demanding more radical action against the cuts? where will they be when working class people need a voice to oppose the JLC cuts, or the SNA cuts or the water privatization, taking about the british occupation and about evil drug dealers i suppose because fighting on the bread and butter issues is just to trendy for them of course.
And for the last time we don't ignore the occupation, read them again if you must, if we ignored like you said then i wouldn't be here debating about it with you now would i ?


Yes fair play to those who shoot british soldiers, PSNI officers, drug dealers and civilians (accidentally, maybe, but doesn't change the fact) who play into the hands of reactionary scum like ian paisley and gerry adams and set back the movement for working class unity.




Your clearly aren't a trot, and if you were i suggest reading his pamplet about why marxists oppose individual terrorism i.e groups like the 32csm, INLA and the IRA. and no the SP is anything but trendy its alot trendier to spew nonsense about guns, and killing de brits and attacking others who disagree with murdering people on a whim in the name of "justice".


And what exactly is this supposed to do? They got in trouble from the police? they got there doors kicked in? whats your point? yes i oppose police brutality in every respect including this of course but just because an organisation was attacked by the police doesn't mean its revolutionary.



I'm aware. But at least the WP provide a decent voice for real working class struggles and work with the SP on many different issues.

Ha.

Oh and by the way, your 32 buddies were the ones responsible for Omagh. "Have done more than the SP" well ya, we haven't killed anyone i suppose.

again, are you accusing the 32csm of carrying out that attrocity? Are you one of the people who couldnt say sinn fein wothout attatching IRA onto the end of it?

[Andropov]

Oh jesus, this thread is utter cack.
Trots bandying out the individual terrorist card with 32's coming out with the trendy leftist jibes.
I have my differences with both the SP and the 32CSM but I recognise both as being somewhat progressive even with what I would perceive as ideological faults, some nuanced some not.
Firstly the SP are not "armchair revolutionarys", you dont have to by strutting around the bog with an armalite to be a "true revolutionary", their actions in the mobilisation of the working class in many southern communities against private capital are to be commended, they are without doubt the most efficient at such actions in the 26 counties. They do tackle issues affecting working class people under attack from private capital and their mouthpieces in the Dail.
Now saying that I find their economist "gas and water" socialist policies with regards to Imperialism in Ireland as deeply flawed. I can understand the rational behind their policies, mainly a reluctance to grasp the thorny issue that is Loyalism and its inherent degenerate supremacist ideology. This can be seen with a tepid endorsement of Loyalist triumphalist marchs through Nationalist communities on the 12th or their affiliations with the PUP in years gone by, yes the political wing of the UVF.
Also an uncomfortable truth for many in the SP is that the SP could only dream of the amount of support the 32CSM/RIRA has in certain working class communities in the North in comparison to the SP.
Even though I disagree with the RIRA's "armed campaign", even if it could be called an armed campaign, I disagree with it on practical grounds, ideologically it is not individual terrorism and tragetting British Imperial Officers in their colonial constabulary, British Military or Loyalist Death Squads is not in the least bit sectarian. I still think that such a campaign in the current socio-economic context is futile and in no way would ever encourage it but that does not mean I would make the mistake of criticising it on fabricated and misguided ideological grounds.
As regards the 32CSM/RIRA I recognise them as a reaction to Imperialism. I recognise most anti-imperial organisations as being inherently progressive. But the 32CSM/RIRA most certainly could not be defined as Socialist. Claiming that the 32CSM/RIRA is indeed Socialist is either a misunderstanding on the definition of Socialism, deliberatly distorting the facts or a misguided judgement on the 32CSM/RIRA. I could pull numerous documents the 32CSM has released over the years to verify this and well the 32 supporters only have their opinions to fall back on.
The 32CSM has some glaring ideological chasm's and does not recognise the class struggle in the majority of its actions but im not one to preach from the pulpit, the INLA made some major mistakes in its campaign and in many instances neglected the class struggle as it got sucked into an armed campaign with little political direction for various historical reasons, some of their own making and many instances orchestrated by external imperial forces.
But to bring us back to the original point of the thread does that make the struggle of anti-imperial prisoners in British jails any less justified? Does it mean we should not endorse some level of support for progressive political prisoners who are seeking greater human rights? In my opinion these political prisoners should be fully supported in their current struggle.

[Irish Left]

SP love to rant and roar about palestine cause its a trendy thing to do. But when it comes to Irish POWs having forced strip searches, locked up for 23 hours a day with not foods etc, getting beaten be crowds of riot cops, some on the dirty protest etc.... the SP son't care because its not trendy enough!
Pathetic.
Victory to Irish POWs!

[Crux]

rant and roar cause its a trendy its not trendy enough!
:laugh:

[Irish Left]

:laugh:

Why you alter my post?

[Crux]

Why you alter my post?
Because it's so trendy of course. I am sorry but I can't take that "trendy" bullshit you and other of your persuation sling seriously.

[Irish Left]

Because it's so trendy of course. I am sorry but I can't take that "trendy" bullshit you and other of your persuation sling seriously.

Well its true whether you accept it or not. Can you not see how stupid they look by saying they support Palestine and POWs there, but not over here, god forbid they may actually have to do something.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

Because it's so trendy of course. I am sorry but I can't take that "trendy" bullshit you and other of your persuation sling seriously.

:lol: Supporting the Irish Republican Struggle and Irish POW's that are Prisoners due to having engaged in Working Class Struggle for an Independent 32 County Ireland is hardly 'Trendy.'

[Irish Left]

Support Irish POWs! :star2: :hammersickle: :star2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3JzKfqRciE&feature=player_embedded

[Irish Left]

POW protest this saturday

RNU/Cogus will be holding a white line picket this saturday the 9th July 2011 in Derry city 2pm.

[Irish Left]

Another great video! Support our POWs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg90LgEQXNI&feature=player_embedded

[Irish Left]

Statement from CIRA Prisoners Maghaberry 30/06/11
Statement from the CIRA POWs in Maghaberry Jail

We, the Republican POWs incarcerated in Maghaberry Jail, have tonight 30th
June commenced protest action. The decision to take this action has not
been taken lightly and is a direct result of the non-implementation of the
Agreement which was signed on August 12th 2010.

This Agreement was signed by Republican POWs in good faith. It has became
clear that the British Government and their relevant departments have no
intention of implementing the agreement they signed.

Once again the British Government have embarked on a criminalisation policy
within Maghaberry concentration camp against Republicans, and as such we
are left with no alternative but to commence protest action.

We ask our families, Republicans and comrades for renewed support.

We are Prisoners of War; we cannot be broken or criminalised, and any such
attempt to do either will be met with resistance.

O/C CIRA Maghaberry

[Irish Left]

bump. Support the prisioners of war!!!


End internment now


free marian price!

[Magdalen]

To quote Karl Radek at the Second Comintern Congress: 'It is very easy at the moment to speak out in Britain against intervention in Russia, since even the bourgeois left is against it. It is harder for the British comrades to take up the cause of Irish independence and of anti-militarist activity. We have a right to demand this difficult work of the British comrades' (http://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/2nd-congress/ch04.htm). Ninety years later it appears that Radek's cry has still gone unheard amongst the British Left and their semi-autonomous franchisees in Ireland. Tiocfaidh ár lá!

[Irish Left]

To quote Karl Radek at the Second Comintern Congress: 'It is very easy at the moment to speak out in Britain against intervention in Russia, since even the bourgeois left is against it. It is harder for the British comrades to take up the cause of Irish independence and of anti-militarist activity. We have a right to demand this difficult work of the British comrades' (http://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/2nd-congress/ch04.htm). Ninety years later it appears that Radek's cry has still gone unheard amongst the British Left and their semi-autonomous franchisees in Ireland. Tiocfaidh ár lá!



Agreed 100%%
The left in ireland aka sp swp etc... Love to shout their support for those fighing the occupation of palestine but they completely ignore the ongoing imperialist occupation of Ireland!

[Jolly Red Giant]

Okay - time to set the record straight on a couple of issues

The Socialist Party supports the release of the Republican prisoners who had their licence revoked and have been returned to prison indefinitely.

http://www.socialistpartyni.net/component/content/article/60-assembly-/663-brendan-lillis-must-be-released

The Socialist Party also supports the two demands put forward by the prisoners - namely -
1. Free Association
2. End to Strip Searches

The Socialist Party would actually go further can call for far more extensive rights for ALL prisoners, not just Republican prisoners.

The Socialist Party does not and will support the campaign of the 32CSM on this issue because is it being fought to raise the profile and increase the support of a republican group - rather than being fought to increase the rights of all prisoners - and, from the Socialist Party's perspective, support for this group is fundementally against the interests of the working class on this island and inhibits the growth of workers unity between Catholic and Protestant workers.

The Socialist Party has been 100% consistant on this issue. During the Hunger Strikes in 1981 the 'Militant' fully supported the five demands of the hungerstrikers and supported the hunger strikers in their call for these demands to be extended to all prisoners. The Militant opposed the campaign waged by Sinn Fein for exactly the same reason that it opposes the current campaign for the 32CSM.



Now saying that I find their economist "gas and water" socialist policies with regards to Imperialism in Ireland as deeply flawed.
The Socialist Party supports the right of the working class on this island to self-determination and as revolutionary socialists campaigns for the defeat and overthrow of British Imperialism on this island and in Britain.


I can understand the rational behind their policies, mainly a reluctance to grasp the thorny issue that is Loyalism and its inherent degenerate supremacist ideology.
The Socialist Party opposes loyalism - a rabid right-wing sectarian ideology - and the difference in terminology is really nothing more than a minor point of argument.


This can be seen with a tepid endorsement of Loyalist triumphalist marchs through Nationalist communities on the 12th or
Being blunt - this is utter bullsh*t - The Socialist Party is opposed to all sectarian marches (loyalist and republican) going through communities where they are not wanted. However, the Socialist Party does not regard the Orange Order as a fascist organisation and does not believe that main arterial routes, thoroughfares or town and city centres can be classed as belonging to one side or the other of sectarian division in the North. As such the Socialist Party defends the right to march and protest on main roads and town centres. To oppose such a right is a reactionary position even if it is being used to oppose reactionary forces. The Socialist Party campaigned against the attempt by SF and the DUP to impose restrictions on the right to march and protest in the North.


their affiliations with the PUP in years gone by, yes the political wing of the UVF.
This is actually a scurrilous comment. The Socialist Party has never had any affiliation with the PUP what so ever. The Socialist Party have debated against the PUP (specifically Billy Hutchinson), against Sinn Fein and against a variety of other republican groups. Republicans have actually invited Billy Hutchinson on protests that they have organised - something the Socialist Party have never done and would never contemplate.


Also an uncomfortable truth for many in the SP is that the SP could only dream of the amount of support the 32CSM/RIRA has in certain working class communities in the North in comparison to the SP.
It is absolutely 100% true that there are many working class Catholic communities where the 32CSM/RIRA has significantly more support than the Socialist Party - is this really a surprise - there are many Protestant working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than the 32CSM and much less than loyalist groups and similarly there are many Catholic working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than loyalists. It is a spurious argument. The question is this - what is the character of the support that the 32CSM/RIRA has in these communites. The Socialist Party would argue that far from being progressive (irrespective of the politics of individual Catholics) this support is sectarian in nature and as a result injurious to the interests of the working class as a whole.

One sphere of working class struggle where the Socialist Party has a significantly bigger based than either the 32CSM or the PUP is within the trade union movement. The Socialist Party has influence and a base far beyond what its size should merit within the trade union movement in the North. It has managed to build this base over an extended period by systematically adopting a working class approach to all iusses, campaigning for workers unity and opposing sectarianism.



Even though I disagree with the RIRA's "armed campaign", even if it could be called an armed campaign, I disagree with it on practical grounds, ideologically it is not individual terrorism and tragetting British Imperial Officers in their colonial constabulary, British Military or Loyalist Death Squads is not in the least bit sectarian. I still think that such a campaign in the current socio-economic context is futile and in no way would ever encourage it but that does not mean I would make the mistake of criticising it on fabricated and misguided ideological grounds.
The Socialist Party (and the Militant) have opposed the republican paramilitary campaign from the outset - not because we have some ideological opposition to using weapons - but because we believe that it is a fundementally flawed strategy based on individual terror (and this is the political term for the nature of the republican paramilitary campaign - not, as republicans always seem to perceive, a swipe at republicanism). The Socialist Party believes that it has not succeeded, it cannot succeed and it will always result in a split in republicanism and a compromise with Imperialism.


As regards the 32CSM/RIRA I recognise them as a reaction to Imperialism.
Absolutely - the root cause of all of these issues is British Imperialism.


I recognise most anti-imperial organisations as being inherently progressive.
Here we must disagree - any organisation that bases itself on one section of the working class is not progressive in any way.


But the 32CSM/RIRA most certainly could not be defined as Socialist.
Again - agree.


the INLA made some major mistakes in its campaign and in many instances neglected the class struggle as it got sucked into an armed campaign with little political direction for various historical reasons, some of their own making and many instances orchestrated by external imperial forces.
Glad you recognise it - but in my opinion the INLA/IRSP is still a very long way to where it can play a progressive role for the working class.

[Irish Left]

Okay - time to set the record straight on a couple of issues

The Socialist Party supports the release of the Republican prisoners who had their licence revoked and have been returned to prison indefinitely.

http://www.socialistpartyni.net/component/content/article/60-assembly-/663-brendan-lillis-must-be-released

The Socialist Party also supports the two demands put forward by the prisoners - namely -
1. Free Association
2. End to Strip Searches

The Socialist Party would actually go further can call for far more extensive rights for ALL prisoners, not just Republican prisoners.

The Socialist Party does not and will support the campaign of the 32CSM on this issue because is it being fought to raise the profile and increase the support of a republican group - rather than being fought to increase the rights of all prisoners - and, from the Socialist Party's perspective, support for this group is fundementally against the interests of the working class on this island and inhibits the growth of workers unity between Catholic and Protestant workers.

The Socialist Party has been 100% consistant on this issue. During the Hunger Strikes in 1981 the 'Militant' fully supported the five demands of the hungerstrikers and supported the hunger strikers in their call for these demands to be extended to all prisoners. The Militant opposed the campaign waged by Sinn Fein for exactly the same reason that it opposes the current campaign for the 32CSM.


The Socialist Party supports the right of the working class on this island to self-determination and as revolutionary socialists campaigns for the defeat and overthrow of British Imperialism on this island and in Britain.


The Socialist Party opposes loyalism - a rabid right-wing sectarian ideology - and the difference in terminology is really nothing more than a minor point of argument.


Being blunt - this is utter bullsh*t - The Socialist Party is opposed to all sectarian marches (loyalist and republican) going through communities where they are not wanted. However, the Socialist Party does not regard the Orange Order as a fascist organisation and does not believe that main arterial routes, thoroughfares or town and city centres can be classed as belonging to one side or the other of sectarian division in the North. As such the Socialist Party defends the right to march and protest on main roads and town centres. To oppose such a right is a reactionary position even if it is being used to oppose reactionary forces. The Socialist Party campaigned against the attempt by SF and the DUP to impose restrictions on the right to march and protest in the North.


This is actually a scurrilous comment. The Socialist Party has never had any affiliation with the PUP what so ever. The Socialist Party have debated against the PUP (specifically Billy Hutchinson), against Sinn Fein and against a variety of other republican groups. Republicans have actually invited Billy Hutchinson on protests that they have organised - something the Socialist Party have never done and would never contemplate.


It is absolutely 100% true that there are many working class Catholic communities where the 32CSM/RIRA has significantly more support than the Socialist Party - is this really a surprise - there are many Protestant working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than the 32CSM and much less than loyalist groups and similarly there are many Catholic working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than loyalists. It is a spurious argument. The question is this - what is the character of the support that the 32CSM/RIRA has in these communites. The Socialist Party would argue that far from being progressive (irrespective of the politics of individual Catholics) this support is sectarian in nature and as a result injurious to the interests of the working class as a whole.

One sphere of working class struggle where the Socialist Party has a significantly bigger based than either the 32CSM or the PUP is within the trade union movement. The Socialist Party has influence and a base far beyond what its size should merit within the trade union movement in the North. It has managed to build this base over an extended period by systematically adopting a working class approach to all iusses, campaigning for workers unity and opposing sectarianism.


The Socialist Party (and the Militant) have opposed the republican paramilitary campaign from the outset - not because we have some ideological opposition to using weapons - but because we believe that it is a fundementally flawed strategy based on individual terror (and this is the political term for the nature of the republican paramilitary campaign - not, as republicans always seem to perceive, a swipe at republicanism). The Socialist Party believes that it has not succeeded, it cannot succeed and it will always result in a split in republicanism and a compromise with Imperialism.


Absolutely - the root cause of all of these issues is British Imperialism.


Here we must disagree - any organisation that bases itself on one section of the working class is not progressive in any way.


Again - agree.


Glad you recognise it - but in my opinion the INLA/IRSP is still a very long way to where it can play a progressive role for the working class.

Your posts to long for me to reply to each point. It is full of sh1te too.
If you support the POWs you would attend protests supportimg them. I have yet to hear of yous doing so.
I have also yet to hear of yous attending protests for those interned prisioners. Why would you give the same rights to common criminal that the pows should have. The POWs are political prisioners and should be treated that way. Even the nazis gave british soldiers pow status.

All that crap about the 32s is redundent too as many of the pows have to connection to them.

Also if you oppose sectarian parades where you in ardoyne or newtonbutler supporting the local residents?

All that stuff about why you didnt support the armed resistance against imperialism is nonsense too.

On the IRSM they are a far more progressive organisation than the sp will every be and they are on the rise by the looks of it. Upa Irps.

[CommieTroll]

To many cowardly socialist groups in Ireland like a flag waving contest. At least the 32s have the balls to get out there and be active.

I've actually seen the 32CSM in action, I know the kind of them. They are nothing but a group of thugs. I suppose The Omagh Bomb really taught the Brits a lesson then?

[Irish Left]

I've actually seen the 32CSM in action, I know the kind of them. They are nothing but a group of thugs. I suppose The Omagh Bomb really taught the Brits a lesson then?

The omagh bomb. Your either about 10 or a loyalist if you bring that up. I wasnt aware the 32s planted it.

And whats the kind of the 32s. Are you shocked that they dont just wave flags and drool over the pathetic trade union leaders?

[CommieTroll]

The omagh bomb. Your either about 10 or a loyalist if you bring that up. I wasnt aware the 32s planted it.

And whats the kind of the 32s. Are you shocked that they dont just wave flags and drool over the pathetic trade union leaders?
Is that all you can do? Someone disagrees with you so you verbally attack them? You remind me of RevLeftByBirth, posting mindless propaganda on this forum that achieves nothing. No, I'm not a loyalist but what you don't understand is that a lot of loyalists are proletarian too, but I wouldn't expect a sectarian bigot to think like that. You're probably a teenager playing provo because your parents forced those beliefs into you just like every other ''nationalist'' and ''loyalist'' in the north.

[Irish Left]

Is that all you can do? Someone disagrees with you so you verbally attack them? You remind me of RevLeftByBirth, posting mindless propaganda on this forum that achieves nothing. No, I'm not a loyalist but what you don't understand is that a lot of loyalists are proletarian too, but I wouldn't expect a sectarian bigot to think like that. You're probably a teenager playing provo because your parents forced those beliefs into you just like every other ''nationalist'' and ''loyalist'' in the north.

I wont be explaining to you why posting about omagh was stupid as i think you already know that.
I dont support the armed struggle or the 32s but at least they do more than talk about revolutions and fights against imperialism in far off lands.
I am not a nationalist and my parents arnt socialist republicans so they forced nothing apon me!

I see you havnt enlightend me anymore on your accusitions against the 32s so i will assume it was just bs.

[Magdalen]

Is that all you can do? Someone disagrees with you so you verbally attack them? You remind me of RevLeftByBirth, posting mindless propaganda on this forum that achieves nothing. No, I'm not a loyalist but what you don't understand is that a lot of loyalists are proletarian too, but I wouldn't expect a sectarian bigot to think like that. You're probably a teenager playing provo because your parents forced those beliefs into you just like every other ''nationalist'' and ''loyalist'' in the north.

You're ignoring the fundamental distinction between the Loyalist working class and the Nationalist working class - that the Loyalist working class, because of its privilege relative to the Nationalist working class, is orientated around support for rightist Orange ideology and a continued British Imperialist presence in Ireland. Connolly referred to them as 'slaves in spirit because they have been reared up among a people whose conditions of servitude are more slavish than their own' (http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1913/08/neulster.htm). Nationalists aren't to blame for a lack of proletarian unity in the Six Counties - British Imperialism is, and unity can only develop once British Imperialism is vanquished from Ireland.

I also refer Jolly Red Giant to another quotation from the same article, that 'the historical backgrounds of the movement in England and Ireland are so essentially different that the Irish Socialist movement can only be truly served by a party indigenous to the soil' (http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1913/08/neulster.htm). Can he argue that organisations such as the SP and SWP in Ireland, which effectively operate as franchises of organisations across the water really fulfil that criteria? The CWI even operates a largely separate organisation with a separate website in the Six Counties.

[fionntan]

I've actually seen the 32CSM in action, I know the kind of them. They are nothing but a group of thugs. I suppose The Omagh Bomb really taught the Brits a lesson then?


:lol::lol: so you know the kind of them??? With that statement i conclude that you dont actualy know any but you know that working class republican type that frightings the average rich kid at a demo. Those terrible lads who live in the tower blocks and were track suits but talk politics. Im not supprised you call people thugs educated working class youths must put the fear of god in you. And again the 32 CSM didnt and dont plant bombs.

[CommieTroll]

Even the point of ''Irish Nationalism'' is pathetic. A united working class of the UK & Ireland is a lot stronger than your Catholic dominated theocracy and that's the reason why Unionists don't want reunification and you morons can't see that. You guys will say anything for your precious ''anti-imperialism''. And fionntan, the 32CSM is the RIRA's political mouthpiece, nothing more. Yeah, they are also responsible for the Omagh bomb and you's can't dismiss it or say its stupid that I brought it up. You may want reunification with the south but we honestly don't want you, at this current moment in time it's impossible for reunification, you really think another 6 counties can be supported?

[fionntan]

Even the point of ''Irish Nationalism'' is pathetic. A united working class of the UK & Ireland is a lot stronger than your Catholic dominated theocracy and that's the reason why Unionists don't want reunification and you morons can't see that. You guys will say anything for your precious ''anti-imperialism''. And fionntan, the 32CSM is the RIRA's political mouthpiece, nothing more. Yeah, they are also responsible for the Omagh bomb and you's can't dismiss it or say its stupid that I brought it up. You may want reunification with the south but we honestly don't want you, at this current moment in time it's impossible for reunification, you really think another 6 counties can be supported?


Its irelavant what some west brits in the 26 counties want yourself being one of them. Can you address the points i made?

And please drop the titile commie from your user name...

[Jolly Red Giant]

You're ignoring the fundamental distinction between the Loyalist working class and the Nationalist working class - that the Loyalist working class, because of its privilege relative to the Nationalist working class, is orientated around support for rightist Orange ideology and a continued British Imperialist presence in Ireland. Connolly referred to them as 'slaves in spirit because they have been reared up among a people whose conditions of servitude are more slavish than their own' (http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1913/08/neulster.htm). Nationalists aren't to blame for a lack of proletarian unity in the Six Counties - British Imperialism is, and unity can only develop once British Imperialism is vanquished from Ireland.
Quoting Connolly and attempting to transplant his view of Belfast in 1913 into the North of 2011 is an utterly mechancial approach that has no use or role in a socialist understanding of the situation in the North. Furthermore. minor privileges of the Protestant working class did not stop a large scale mass movement of a united working class in Belfast in 1919. The cowardice and gutlessness of the leadership of the ILPTUC facilitated the pogroms of the following year. It is also interesting to note the assessment of Sinn Fein in 1920 when they held the view that 'labour in Belfast is not Carsonite in outlook but clearly internationalist' (from Dail Cabinet documents held in the National Archives in Dublin).

The days of any privilage for the Protestant working class are long gone and have been for years - the only people who peddle such nonsense are those interested in the continued division of working class people in the North.


I also refer Jolly Red Giant to another quotation from the same article, that 'the historical backgrounds of the movement in England and Ireland are so essentially different that the Irish Socialist movement can only be truly served by a party indigenous to the soil' (http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1913/08/neulster.htm). Can he argue that organisations such as the SP and SWP in Ireland, which effectively operate as franchises of organisations across the water really fulfil that criteria? The CWI even operates a largely separate organisation with a separate website in the Six Counties.
It is a gross insult to the members of the Socialist Party/ CWI in Ireland are a 'franchise' of the English group. The Socialist Party / CWI in Ireland is a seperate political organisation affilitated to the CWI with the same rights, entitlements and responsibilities as every other affiliate of the CWI. Indeed at international events we tend to congregate with groups from other countries because we are fed up with the Brits cheating at soccer (which they insist on calling football) and they can't keep pace with us when it comes to having a few pints.

If is furthermore an utter lie that the Socialist Party in Ireland operates as anything other than a single organisation on this island. There is one organisation, one National Committee, one Executive Committee, one National Conference, one National Secretary etc. etc. etc. The Socialist Party in Ireland has two regional sub-committees for the simple practical reason that the Irish organisation operates within two existing capitalist states, run by two different governments etc.etc. - and the Northern Website exists for that simple reason - it is no different than having a regional website in Cork, Limerick, Galway or anywhere else.



If you support the POWs you would attend protests supportimg them. I have yet to hear of yous doing so.
Why would we support protests design to increase support for anti-GFA republicans - we are socialists not republicans. The treatment or the republican prisoners is being used by 'dissident' republican groups to increase their own support in Catholic communities - it has little to do with campaigning for prisoners rights. Indeed it is in the interest of these republican groups that these rights are not won.


Why would you give the same rights to common criminal that the pows should have.
Are you suggesting the 'common criminals' - many of them economic pows - deserve any less democratic rights because they are not republican pows? In 2009 over 3,500 people were jailed in the Rep. of Ireland for refusing or being unable to pay fines - do you class these people as 'common criminals' ?

Given the fact that the hunger strikers in 1981 recognised that this distinction should not be made - why don't you adopt a similar approach and support the rights of all prisoners to 'free association' and 'no strip searches'. Prison after all is supposed to be about rehabilitation and mistreatment of all prisoners should be condemned by all.


The POWs are political prisioners and should be treated that way. Even the nazis gave british soldiers pow status.
The Nazis also gassed about six million jews and a killed a couple of million socialists. communists, homosexuals, gypsies and disabled people - so what?


All that crap about the 32s is redundent too as many of the pows have to connection to them.
All the republican prisoners who have had they licence revoked on spurious grounds should be released - whether they have any connection to the 32csm or not.


Also if you oppose sectarian parades where you in ardoyne or newtonbutler supporting the local residents?
This statement from the Socialist Party on parades is from 2000 - but the arguments outlined in it are just as relevent today -

http://www.socialistpartyni.net/statement-a-analysis/northern-ireland/123-parades-a-socialist-view



All that stuff about why you didnt support the armed resistance against imperialism is nonsense too.
Please explain why the Socialist Party should support a strategy that has been an abject failure for over a century? A united ireland is no closer now than it was when the Brits passed the Third Home Rule Bill in 1912 and the republican strategy hasn't changed either.

[CommieTroll]

:lol::lol: so you know the kind of them??? With that statement i conclude that you dont actualy know any but you know that working class republican type that frightings the average rich kid at a demo. Those terrible lads who live in the tower blocks and were track suits but talk politics. Im not supprised you call people thugs educated working class youths must put the fear of god in you. And again the 32 CSM didnt and dont plant bombs.


Its irelavant what some west brits in the 26 counties want yourself being one of them. Can you address the points i made?

And please drop the titile commie from your user name...

Mainly I can't really understand the gist of what you are trying to say, mainly because you don't have decent grammar. Yes, I do know the kind of them, I've seen the conflict first hand, now it's just random bomb scares and killing unsuspecting policemen (don't even bother going off about that, I know you will probably jump at the chance to make a rant about how I'm wrong along with the ''British Invaders'' that call themselves the PSNI, probably RUC to you). You Republican fetishists rant on & on about how you're fighting imperialism but in reality your a bunch of fucking cowards that'll never pull the trigger on anyone. Drop this republican shit and read some Marx, might do you some good. You think its good for ''anti imperialism'' to massacre school children? You think I'm a west brit? Technically you're a brit, you're living in the north aren't you? Haha, ''drop the Commie part'' I see what ya did there. Ever think of changing your's to sectarian bigot?

[fionntan]

Mainly I can't really understand the gist of what you are trying to say, mainly because you don't have decent grammar. Yes, I do know the kind of them, I've seen the conflict first hand, now it's just random bomb scares and killing unsuspecting policemen (don't even bother going off about that, I know you will probably jump at the chance to make a rant about how I'm wrong along with the ''British Invaders'' that call themselves the PSNI, probably RUC to you). You Republican fetishists rant on & on about how you're fighting imperialism but in reality your a bunch of fucking cowards that'll never pull the trigger on anyone. Drop this republican shit and read some Marx, might do you some good. You think its good for ''anti imperialism'' to massacre school children? You think I'm a west brit? Technically you're a brit, you're living in the north aren't you? Haha, ''drop the Commie part'' I see what ya did there. Ever think of changing your's to sectarian bigot?


:laugh::laugh::laugh:.....

[manic expression]

You think I'm a west brit?
You already admitted that you hate Ireland, so why are you surprised at that term?

[Crux]

You already admitted that you hate Ireland, so why are you surprised at that term?
He did? Where?

[manic expression]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/ireland-t160575/index.html?t=160575

A few posts from the first.

[Invader Zim]

You already admitted that you hate Ireland, so why are you surprised at that term?

I think you would need to know more about the root of that distaste to justify the label.

[Jolly Red Giant]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/ireland-t160575/index.html?t=160575

A few posts from the first.

You mean this -


I live in Ireland, I hate this country

In all honesty - talk about shoving your head up your rear end.

Ireland is a shite country run by a bunch of gombeen spivs lining their own pockets and the green-tinted romantics yearning for yesteryear without the Brits when we were all happy together.

I hate this country and everything it stands for - speculation, poverty, debt, austerity and all the nonsense that goes with it. I have an absolute confidence in the ability and the willingness of working class people in this country to change the society we live in for the better and I can't wait for the day it happens.

[Tifosi]

You already admitted that you hate Ireland, so why are you surprised at that term?

Because the term 'West Brit' is used by Irish Republicans to attack people they think support neo-Unionism.

A Irish person saying they hate living where they do doesn't equal neo-Unionism.

[manic expression]

Ireland is a shite country run by a bunch of gombeen spivs lining their own pockets and the green-tinted romantics yearning for yesteryear without the Brits when we were all happy together.

I hate this country and everything it stands for - speculation, poverty, debt, austerity and all the nonsense that goes with it. I have an absolute confidence in the ability and the willingness of working class people in this country to change the society we live in for the better and I can't wait for the day it happens.
Wow. Well, I appreciate the honesty...I think. Just curious, maybe I didn't see it in your post here, but...if you hate Ireland, how can you have confidence in the masses of Ireland?


I think you would need to know more about the root of that distaste to justify the label.
Perhaps, but someone who just says that kind of thing without much explanation shouldn't be shocked when the label comes up.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Wow. Well, I appreciate the honesty...I think. Just curious, maybe I didn't see it in your post here, but...if you hate Ireland, how can you have confidence in the masses of Ireland?
1. Do you like the USA - run by right-wing neo-liberal bankers and weapons manufacturers (coat-tailed by the fundementalist Christian right)?

If yes - then you are a moron who should not be on this forum

If no - then you feel the same way about the USA as I do about Ireland

2. Do you think the American working class are capable of changing society for the better through socialist revolution?

If yes - then you feel the same way about the American working class as I do about the Irish working class

If no - then you are a moron who should not be on this forum (and shouldn't class yourself as a socialist)

[manic expression]

1. Do you like the USA - run by right-wing neo-liberal bankers and weapons manufacturers (coat-tailed by the fundementalist Christian right)?
It could be run by Mussolini's hat and I would still care very deeply for its cultures and above all its peoples. There are a great many things I dislike about the US, there are many things I disagree with as much as one can, but I do not assign that so broadly, and I never forget that what makes a country is not the class and state that rules over it.

James Connolly saw an Ireland ruled by one of the most despicable imperialist gangs in recent history...and yet how did he speak of Ireland? With hatred and scorn? I think not.

[CommieTroll]

You already admitted that you hate Ireland, so why are you surprised at that term?

It doesn't mean I find Britain any better, and that statement could have been about numerous different aspects about life in Ireland. I guess I'll have to explain myself then, I hate the weather here, the school system, the government and the cost of living. I didn't mean the culture or the people so I don't see how I could be classed as a ''west brit''

[CommieTroll]

And politically we are a joke, we let the Catholic Church basically rule us for over a 1000 years (that's longer than the British presence and to an extent we still are letting Rome get away with too much) where they had a major say in social and political aspects of Irish life, even until we joined the EU we had a horrible infrastructure and a poor education system (in my opinion we still do), we are seen internationally as alcoholics and conservative catholics. We let our national language go to the verge of extinction. Millions of our working class have emigrated to the USA, Britain and Australia throughout our history in which they helped the economic greatness of those countries, shall I go on? We let Fina Fail line their pockets during an imaginary ''economic boom'' and let financial lending get out of control but what do I know, fuck it, pass me my whiskey.

[manic expression]

It doesn't mean I find Britain any better, and that statement could have been about numerous different aspects about life in Ireland. I guess I'll have to explain myself then, I hate the weather here, the school system, the government and the cost of living. I didn't mean the culture or the people so I don't see how I could be classed as a ''west brit''
OK, I hear that. Thanks for explaining what you meant.

[CommieTroll]

OK, I hear that. Thanks for explaining what you meant.

And the main reason I don't like being called that is just the fact that it's simply not true, and the fact that I'm Irish of course lol And I thought it was Leftist discussion, not mindless shit tossing

[Invader Zim]

I like the weather in the British Isles, myself. It's been pissing down today. Nothing like a good bit of rain to lighten the mood.

[Prometeo liberado]

this land was always ours
its the proud land of our fathers
it belongs to us and them
not to any of the others

Thought this would be a fine couplet from the Pogues. Sorry no Christie Moore

[Jolly Red Giant]

Socialist Party / CWI Statement calling for the Release of Marian Price

http://www.socialistpartyni.net/statement-a-analysis/58-the-national-question/770-return-of-internment-no-to-state-repression