when guerrilla becomes terrorism.

[kuchi]

It is sad to see how all the so-called revolutionary armies from my country have turned into capitalist guerrillas. I think you have listened and read about the conflict here in colombia. I am one of those who thinks that the best way of helping the opressed is revolution, but a revolution with a goal.

Here this armed groups started like 40 years ago, and they were fighting for the right causes. The rural peasants were being exploded and killed by the nations army, and the battle between consrvatives and liberals was bringing the country down. Then a group of rural people who saw how their families were killed, decided to form a so-called guerrilla. At the beginning it was nothing, now we all know it as FARC(revolutionary armed forces of colombia), and the other is the ELN(national liberation army). At the end of the 70's, this groups were joined by students and teachers of pilitics and philosophy, who believed in the ideal of a free country. This guys brought the comunism toughts to these groups. But in 1985, one of this organizations decided to attack the Law palace in Bogota. A lot of innocent people were killed there, my mom was there that day, she told me how this guys were saying they were doing that attack in the holy name of the revolution. Some of the members of that group, who gave up their fight like a decade ago, are now congress men and amjors, even some have runned to president. After that attack some people from the ultra-righted groups, started to kill the members of the communist party, just because they had nexus with these guerrilla armys. From that point until now, these armies started to kill innocent people, and the intelectual members of these groups became assassins. Nowdays they are not only terrorists but also drug dealers. After the big "capos" from the drug organizarions were killed, the guerrillas new they will have a good profit in taking care of the drug business. They became pure capitalists, they think in money, not in the rights people deserve. They now kill poor people in little villages, and rob the local banks. The sad part of the story is that they wear Ernesto Guevara shirts, and they yell he is leading them, and the country to an utopic land of the free.

Summing up, here in my country all the ideals of the dreamed guerrilla warfare of el "Che", have turned into a just to earn money guerrilla groups.

What do you think about this?.

[Drifter]

Very depressing, but not really suprising.
Nietzsche himself noted that:

'He who fights with monsters should look carefully to see that he himself does not become a monster.
And when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.'

[Anonymous]

Hello friend.

i follow the situation in columbia and i suport the FARC. Your goverment is criminal because it suports the paramalitares terrorists that are financed by the 5% in your contry that are very rich as oposed to the 95% that are very poor. From what i hear they are responsible for 75% of the murders and massacres in Columbia. FARC also commits acts of violence like kindnaping, but it the real world people are not perfect and things tend to get out of control after 53 of civil war. As for Drug trade i suporte what the FARC does. Yes thats right but hear me out, what happens is most people are so poor in columbia that they struggle to survive, cultivating drug is what makes them have a better chance at getting enof food. What FARC does is they collect a tax on those who buy the drugs for the farmers, not the farmers them selves, they just give people the freedom to cultivate coca. Unlike the taliban FARC does not force or incentivate people to grow coca. This means that to eliminate this problem what is needed is a serious and responsible effort by the international community to find a substitution product they can cultivate and not starve in the process. We must see these differences or risk commiting injustices like those the CIA commits by suporting a goverment which in turn suports terrorist like los paramilitares.


Companhero i hear peace talks are taking place and i hope they work out so that all of you including the FARC can in democracy make you contry a better more equal more just and less violente place. I would like to think Che would agree.

[Moskitto]

I saw a map in the independant of "terrorist" groups that would be targeted and most of them are Islamic fundamentalists or Far Left groups.

It said that FARC was basiclly involved in loads of terrorist attacks everywhere in Columbia but I've now heard the opinion of someone in Columbia I'm wondering if much of what any media says is actually true.

[ViktorPravda]

Quote: from Drifter on 3:46 pm on Oct. 19, 2001
And when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.'


Now that is not a pleasant thought. Does that mean we are all gonna become Bushies, or Blairites?

[Pacifism first]

Since communism has been outlawed in Colombia for some 50 years I think the farc would have a little troulbe ridding there land from US multinationals and the CIA by taking the democratic path.

I assume that you Kuchi know nothing about how hard it is for these peasent farmers. They have nothing but coca, the FARC simply protect them from the Colombian Army who would burn there crops. For this they are labbled drug traficers. Having a computer equiped with internet access, aswell as being able to speak English in a third world Latin speaking country I'd say you are part of a wealthy family who dosen't give a shit about the colombian lower class...either that or you don't even live in Colombia.

As for the kidnapping...were else are they going to get money from?

Remember Che never said anything about creating a revolution with clean hands, he was on the US state departments terrorist list as are the FARC...but the US governments on mine.

[Drifter]

i'd like to see collective farming, all the produce is stored by the government, and the people are rationed.

[DaNatural]

pacifist first great post comrade, i agree with some of you on this boar i support these marxist guerrillas. based on wha ive heard, they are not angels but u often have to play dirty to acheive your goal. recently in my local newspaper(the toronto star) an article was writen about how these marxists kidnapped a young boy but have now released him. they didnt kill the child like what the governments military has been doing thanks to the help of the good ole usa. i believe the government recieves somewhere in the 100 millions in order to fight off the marxists. it pathetic how the media tries to portray them as thugs or terrorists, while their leading the death squads. peace

[revolutionary spirit]

some one said that the tailaban are making money out of farming drugs.Well maybe,but i read in the Socialist Worker newspaper that it is the favoured Northern Alliance that is farming the most drugs and using the money produced for their war effort

[kuchi]

Well I guess some of you still think that the guerrilla in Colombia are still marxist groups fighting for an ideal country. Let me tell you something, I have read many, many books about communism, socialism, and it never said equalty had to be reached by bearing arms. That is just a misinterpretation of these lectures.

You can't consider yourself as a socialist, or a communist when you harm your fellow countrymen, as for the basis of these doctrines are simple; How can you fight for something when you are destroying it?. How can these guerrilla forces kill in the name of the people of Colombia if they are scaring them to death?. Since these groups starting killing innocents my country has become poorer, and the rich are richer now. Hum, these sure does not sound like socialism or communism, this is manslaughter.

[Guest]

One Man's Story

At one time, life for the descendants of African slaves in Colombia was a tranquil experience, according to Marino Cordoba, a displaced Afro-Colombian who is touring the United States to publicize the plight of his people. Although Afro-Colombians arrived there in slavery 500 years ago, after gaining freedom most of these people lived good lives for generations on the Pacific Coast. They farmed and built homes but they did not have legal title to their land. In 1993, through the persistent work of community organizers such as Cordoba, a law passed to grant Afro-Colombians title for legal possession of that land. In 1996 the first land titles were finally given.
"This law gave the people land title to protect their culture, land and heritage," he said.
But soon after the law passed paramilitaries arrived to displace the new landowners through a process of fear and assassination. In the middle of a December night in 1996 the paramilitary arrived to Cordoba's town, Rio Sucio, with a list of names of human rights workers.
"They went on a house-to-house hunt for their victims," he said. "Many fled, many were killed, many were caught and stripped and paraded through the streets."
For three days and nights Cordoba, a 6ft. 4in., strikingly handsome father of ten, hid along with others in a mangrove swamp in water up to his neck. Finally, the Colombian military arrived and "we thought we were safe now," Cordoba told a group gathered at Camp New Hope in Orange County recently for a Carolina Interfaith Task Force on Central America (CITCA) conference. Instead the military dropped bombs and shot at them with machine guns in the mistaken belief that they were guerillas.
Some, including Cordoba, survived and sneaked through the village in the middle of the night and went into hiding in a nearby community before making their way to Bogata. In 1997, the military and paramilitary continued to bomb and displace the poor Afro-Colombians, Cordoba said, while the guerillas continue to live there on the Pacific Coast unharmed. Cordoba, a soft-spoken man who showed not a trace of bitterness, explained that rich natural resources on the coast such as petroleum, gold, potential tourism along with its strategic location make the area attractive to many outside interests.
"The drug dealers would like to grow poppy and coca there," he said. "The United States government wants to put military bases in and there are many who would like to develop and exploit this area."
The Colombian military and the paramilitary are deeply connected, according to Cordoba, and US aid to fight drug trafficking there is strengthening the paramilitary. Of the 12 million Afro-Colombians living there 1.5 million have been displaced, he said. A total of three million Colombians, mostly poor farmers have been recently displaced from their rural lands. These poor people move to the cities where they turn to prostitution, begging and stealing to survive because they don't have the skills and education needed to survive in the cities.
As long as the US continues to support the military, Cordoba says he has no hope for his people. But groups such as CITCA and Witness for Peace, who sponsored his trip here, give him faith that citizens here are working hard to change US policy in Colombia.
"The people here have welcomed me graciously. The African-American people are especially moved by my story," he said. "I've been warmly received by all and that gives me great strength."
Cordoba will return to this area later this month to speak at the Glocal Awareness Conference sponsored by Students United for a Responsible Global Environment (SURGE). He is scheduled to speak at 2 PM on October 27th at the Frank Porter Graham Student Union on the UNC campus in Chapel Hill. For more info on CITCA go to www.citca.org and for Witness For Peace go to www.witnessforpeace.org

[Moskitto]

Quote: from revolutionary spirit on 7:48 pm on Oct. 21, 2001
some one said that the tailaban are making money out of farming drugs.Well maybe,but i read in the Socialist Worker newspaper that it is the favoured Northern Alliance that is farming the most drugs and using the money produced for their war effort


Actually I heard it was about 50/50 but the Northern Alliance is 5% of the country and the Taliban is 95% so the amount produced compared with area is much greater in the Northern Alliance.