Trust...

[Q]

So, I want to sign up at BitMarket.eu (http://bitmarket.eu), but for the account to become useful it has to be validated - a measure to avoid scammers - so I have to provide some proof of being "trustworthy". Yet I have no idea how. I'm new to BitCoin and I don't have accounts at ebay or allegro. After inquiry I just got this mail:


From what I see, you didn't provide us any means to get you verify. To make sure everyone is trustworthy we need a proof that you have gained some trust elsewhere. It could be anywhere - on some forums (Bitcoin forums included), other auction sites, etc. Finally if you really don't have an idea what to do, you could scan your id and send it back to us, but that's a final measure.

Now, I'm sure as hell not going to scan my ID and send it to some people I don't know... Anyone any other suggestions?

[Rusty Shackleford]

i heard about this. what is this all about again?

[Q]

What? Bitcoin? Well...

Um63OQz3bjo

[Rusty Shackleford]

that is pretty interesting.


well, for "trust" have you every sold anything online via websites like ebay?


also, you are pretty trusted on this site. i dont know if that would help though.

[Q]

that is pretty interesting.
The concept certainly is. I'm not so sure about the specific implementation though. Currently, bitcoins are worth quite a bit: they've risen in value from $5 to $30 in about a month. A classic hausse I would say.


well, for "trust" have you every sold anything online via websites like ebay?
Well, I do, but nothing that has a "trust" indicator or similar proof. Not that I can think of anyway.


also, you are pretty trusted on this site. i dont know if that would help though.
Hmm, perhaps if an admin could drop in that would help ;)

Also, thought it'd be time to add my bitcoin address in my sig :p

[Rusty Shackleford]

is it actually stable though?

[Q]

is it actually stable though?

In what sense?

[Rusty Shackleford]

i might not have a great grasp on the concept but if you are getting real money out of it and transfering real money and puting real money in it, is it possible that it could implode or go into boom and bust cycles in terms of exchange value?

does it transcend real exchange values? or is it just a system to make money transfer a lot easier?

[Q]

i might not have a great grasp on the concept but if you are getting real money out of it and transfering real money and puting real money in it, is it possible that it could implode or go into boom and bust cycles in terms of exchange value?

does it transcend real exchange values? or is it just a system to make money transfer a lot easier?

Ah, right. Currently the value BTC <> Real Money is very volatile. This has partly to do with the fact that the project is still very young and is only in the last months gathering steam. An implosion of the current value seems highly probable somewhere in the near future. How things will develop after that is difficult to tell.

Like the video says, the difficulty of calculating blocks is getting harder as time goes by. Given the exponentially growing userbase, this difficulty is now increasing a lot and CPU mining has become completely impossible. You either get a decent videocard and do GPU mining, or you don't mine at all.

It is not merely a system to transfer money, although that is certainly possible. This is because new bitcoins are created in the process of "mining" (i.e. validating the transctions over the network).

[Rusty Shackleford]

So, the coins represent nothing really.

they are just the products of transactions and pixel manipulation?


so i just watched the video again and it seems that though the rate at which bitcoins are created is regulated by some sort of algorithm or what have you, they still grow indefinitely.

a decentralized production of a fiat that has the capacity to represent all currencies?



i think i might not be getting it just because i need to sleep. ill check up on this tomorrow and look at it a bit more.


also, could this be transferred to non-political? maybe its just me, but this has a lot of potential for discussion. and doesnt really seem like something that can easily be made into a joke.

[Rjevan]

Well, didn't they give a few more hints what exactly proves your trustworthiness? Some trust elsewhere... do you have an amazon account with some recent "neutral" purchases? I'm not sure but that part about BitCoin forums sounds like they just want to see you being an accepted member somewhere, maybe that political simulation game forum would do, too? Revleft... well, might not be the best recommendation for BitCoin. ;)


Also, thought it'd be time to add my bitcoin address in my sig :p
You want us to donate $30 if we like a post of yours? That's quite brazen, don't you think? :p


also, could this be transferred to non-political? maybe its just me, but this has a lot of potential for discussion.
It isn't just you, moved.

[Q]

So, the coins represent nothing really.
So does money really, as it is also just arbitrarily created by banks.


they still grow indefinitely.
There is actually a hardlimit of 21 million bitcoins, which will be reached somewhere around 2035 or so. However, bitcoins can be divided up to six decimals.


also, could this be transferred to non-political? maybe its just me, but this has a lot of potential for discussion. and doesnt really seem like something that can easily be made into a joke.
Good idea.

[Q]

Well, didn't they give a few more hints what exactly proves your trustworthiness? Some trust elsewhere... do you have an amazon account with some recent "neutral" purchases? I'm not sure but that part about BitCoin forums sounds like they just want to see you being an accepted member somewhere, maybe that political simulation game forum would do, too? Revleft... well, might not be the best recommendation for BitCoin. ;)
Well, I don't know either really. And I have no Amazon account.


You want us to donate $30 if we like a post of yours? That's quite brazen, don't you think? :p
If you want :lol:

But you can also do something like 0.1 or even 0.000001 BTC.

[Rjevan]

Well, I don't know either really. And I have no Amazon account.
Hm... might be worth a try giving them a link/screenie to some forum where you're active. Of if you can post there without your account being verified I'd work on my post count at that BitCoins forum.


But you can also do something like 0.1 or even 0.000001 BTC.
You serious? Nice! :ohmy:
I thought 1 BitCoin was the minimum but that makes their system indeed more interesting!

[Q]

Hm... might be worth a try giving them a link/screenie to some forum where you're active.

I could link the bitmarket guys to this thread actually if this subforum wasn't invisible to guests :p

I could point them to you perhaps? I could give your pm contact. If you want to vouch for me of course :p

[Rjevan]

I could link the bitmarket guys to this thread actually if this subforum wasn't invisible to guests :p

I could point them to you perhaps? I could give your pm contact. If you want to vouch for me of course :p
Sure, I'll do it (given they accept me as trustworthy ;)).

I'm not really convinced that membership at the "Home of the Revolutionary Left" makes you appear like a very trustworthy person in their eyes but we could give it a try.

[Mindtoaster]

i heard about this. what is this all about again?

Basically a way to buy drugs off the internet :thumbup:

[Q]

Basically a way to buy drugs off the internet :thumbup:

There is definitely this aspect, as with all other "off the grid" type of projects, such as freenet, i2p, tor... It is not made for this purpose though.

[Salyut]

Basically a way to buy drugs off the internet :thumbup:

...and worse if the rumors I've heard are true.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Basically a way to buy drugs off the internet :thumbup:

If you or anyone has an account, I'd love an invite :D

[Rusty Shackleford]

so, Q, have you gotten a chance to check it out yet?

[Q]

so, Q, have you gotten a chance to check it out yet?

Sorry, check what out?

[Rusty Shackleford]

the bitcoin thing

[Q]

the bitcoin thing
Maybe I'm a little slow, but I don't know what you mean.

[#FF0000]

Bitcoins are dumb, Q. Don't get into that mess.

[Tablo]

Well, there are some .onion sites I know of that don't require any verification for bitcoins and allow you to stay totally anonymous. The problem is the fact they are .onion sites so I don't know how trustworthy they are..

Here is one that lets you mail them cash for bitcoins. It seems fishy to me though.
http://vms43o4cqysakvyb.onion/

[#FF0000]

oh god what is this deepweb shit

[Q]

Well, there are some .onion sites I know of that don't require any verification for bitcoins and allow you to stay totally anonymous. The problem is the fact they are .onion sites so I don't know how trustworthy they are..

Here is one that lets you mail them cash for bitcoins. It seems fishy to me though.
http://vms43o4cqysakvyb.onion/

I don't have much use for USD or CAD though and yeah, it does smell fishy. But thanks.

[Rusty Shackleford]

please explain what .onion is.

[Tablo]

please explain what .onion is.
Ummmm, like it's some deepnet web stuff. Stuff that is anonymous and doesn't show up on regular search engines. Don't bother with it. Most of that stuff is cp and shit.

[Q]

Wikipedia mentions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.onion):


.onion is a pseudo-top-level domain host suffix (similar in concept to such endings as .bitnet and .uucp used in earlier times) designating an anonymous hidden service reachable via the Tor network. Such addresses are not actual DNS names, and the .onion TLD is not in the Internet DNS root, but with the appropriate proxy software installed, Internet programs such as Web browsers can access sites with .onion addresses by sending the request through the network of Tor servers. The purpose of using such a system is to make both the information provider and the person accessing the information more difficult to trace, whether by one another, by an intermediate network host, or by an outsider.

Click on the link for more.

I prefer .i2p (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.i2p#EepProxy) though, as it features human readable domain names.

[xub3rn00dlex]

You guys have no idea the sick disgusting shit that is out there on deep/dark webs.

[Q]

Ummmm, like it's some deepnet web stuff. Stuff that is anonymous and doesn't show up on regular search engines. Don't bother with it. Most of that stuff is cp and shit.


You guys have no idea the sick disgusting shit that is out there on deep/dark webs.

This is really a very stupid line of argumentation. Of course, technologies like these give the opportunity for all kinds of stuff that isn't exactly legal, to say the least. However, does that mean we therefore have to stay away from it? With the same logic we shouldn't be using knives for whatever purpose, as such horrible things can be done with them. The problem is not the tool, but how it is used.

As I wrote here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=5148)...


I believe that we could use technologies such as i2p, tor and freenet to build up underground structures. In many countries anonymity is not a luxury while free access to communication technologies such as internet must be guaranteed, seeing how it can have a very big impact in social movements.

So, what could we do to help spread the use of these technologies in such countries? I don't think that maintaining a webforum or something like it would be very helpful as the knowledge of these technologies is still very low on the left, let alone among workers and demonstrators in the streets of Damascus, for example. However, what could help is to focus on two tasks:
- building up knowledge and experience using these technologies, which can then be used or further spread.
- maintain a portal of sorts that keeps track of interesting leftwing places on tor, i2p and freenet.

[xub3rn00dlex]

This is really a very stupid line of argumentation. Of course, technologies like these give the opportunity for all kinds of stuff that isn't exactly legal, to say the least. However, does that mean we therefore have to stay away from it? With the same logic we shouldn't be using knives for whatever purpose, as such horrible things can be done with them. The problem is not the tool, but how it is used.

As I wrote here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=5148)...

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. I recently took a stroll through the other side of the internet, and I did find some pretty cool things, but it is LOADED with CP. I'm not saying to stay away from it at all, so I'm sorry if I came off that way. Before anyone takes a stroll the way I did, do everything you possibly can to protect your own identity before going on. Using TOR alone isn't enough, clean your cookies, any stored passwords, any important documents. ANYTHING you wouldn't want other people figuring out. Use one or two additional proxies to TOR, and make sure you absolutely have your IS/AV up to date and set on high. I'm running my mac pretty securely and still managed to get several attempts at a break in ( of course it also matters what websites you visited :P )

And I agree that it is not the tool but how it is used, but after realizing what some people use these webs for, I became very hostile towards them. Agreed that its not all legal, but certain things like buying drugs through black markets isn't what I'm concerned about. Please comrade, know what you're doing and where you are going before you take a leisurely stroll the way I did. Good luck to you, and again I apologize if I may have offended you.