Dude, Where's My Country?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Moore's new book hit the stores today. I do not have the money to buy my own copy ( :( :angry: :( ), but I do know a chum who is going to lend me the book. He gave it to me for an hour today, and I read the intro and the first chapter.

Actually, I started laughing before I reached the title page. Moore has placed a mock endorsement from the Department of Homeland Security in the front of the book, assuring us that Moore is not seditious.

The first chapter is actually rather scary--Moore's style has a way of making you laugh out loud while being utterly terrified. In it, Moore probes the relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi ruling class (including the bin Laden family). Moore finds that the Bush administration has been handling Saudi Arabia and the bin Ladens with kid gloves, and has possibly compromised American safety to protect the relationship. There is some conspiracy theory here, but the word "conspiracy" does not do it justice. This is not black helicopter website stuff.

Further updates will be out in the next couple of days as I read the rest of the book.

[truthaddict11]

here's a cheaper way to read the book grab a copy at a local bookstore a place like Boarders or Barnes and Noble and sit back in a comfy chair and enjoy.

[commie kg]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 03:31 PM
here's a cheaper way to read the book grab a copy at a local bookstore a place like Boarders or Barnes and Noble and sit back in a comfy chair and enjoy.
I do that all of the time. The great thing is, they don't even care. You can grab yourself a cappuccino while you're at it, too.

[Rastafari]

from starbucks...

[Ian]

Or you could just club a seal, eh Rastafari? ;)


Multinational companies are crappy I don't care if they let you read the books. Stealing the books are a lot more cost effective and you don't have to be seen in a stupid bookshop.

[Rastafari]

why didn't I think of that!

saving money through stealing!

Jesus. Your such a genious!

[Ian]

Well I will ignore the sardonicism, but yeah thanks for the compliment.

[FabFabian]

Here is something more radical. There is a place where you can borrow books for a time and get this....you borrow for FREE!!!

They call these places..........LIBRARIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P

[Hampton]

I committed the ultimate sin (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000002B7U/qid=1065664880/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5380346-4134522?v=glance&s=music) and bought the book. I've only piled my way through the first chapter so far and I think he makes a lot of intresting points in the seven questions he's asking Bush and it's pretty informative.

Ever since my town's libary flooded and they tore it down the new one hasn't opened up yet, it's only been two years, it's cool, it's cool.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I am about halfway through the book. It is a lightning-fast read, as were his previous books.

One interesting note:

Michael Moore believes there is no "terrorist threat." Moore points out that not a single American was killed by terrorism in 2000, 2002, or 2003. Even in 2001, with the trade tower attacks, the odds of being killed by a terrorist was 1 in 100,000. By way of comparison, you were more likely to be killed by: the flu or pneumonia (1 in 4,500), a car accident (1 in 6,500), yourself (suicide--1 in 9,000), or get murdered (1 in 14,000).

[Marxist in Nebraska]

The second to the last chapter of the book is titled, "How to Talk to Your Conservative Brother-in-Law." I think this a great piece. Emphasize how efforts that are compassionate and humane are also good for the pocketbook. For example, universal health care means that workers stay on the job, do not make their co-workers sick, fewer sick days will be spent (as sickness leads to an immediate visit to a doctor rather than waiting to see if it is serious), and healthy workers can work harder and longer than sickly ones. Interesting.

[RevolucioN NoW]

Even though I'm from Australia i found "Dude, Wheres my Country" to be really good. Moore is really funny and his books are so easy to read.

Isnt Moore a green, he seems to have switched to democrat?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by RevolucioN [email protected] 20 2003, 06:46 PM
Isnt Moore a green, he seems to have switched to democrat?
Moore is not really a Green. Moore is a liberal. In 2000, the Democrats were not liberal enough for him, so he sided with the Green candidate (Nader). He is so angry with Bush and the reactionaries that he is siding with the Dems, because they are strong enough to get Bush out of office (unlike the Greens).

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 22 2003, 09:28 AM

Moore is not really a Green. Moore is a liberal. In 2000, the Democrats were not liberal enough for him, so he sided with the Green candidate (Nader). He is so angry with Bush and the reactionaries that he is siding with the Dems, because they are strong enough to get Bush out of office (unlike the Greens).
which is why I have lost a lot of respect for Michael Moore. It's the lesser of two evils crap again

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 05:01 PM
which is why I have lost a lot of respect for Michael Moore. It's the lesser of two evils crap again
Unfortunately, yes...

But Moore has already said that he would never support a pseudo-Republican like Lieberman. Do you see much of a difference in the politics of a Ralph Nader and the politics of a Dennis Kucinich?

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 28 2003, 05:06 PM

Unfortunately, yes...

But Moore has already said that he would never support a pseudo-Republican like Lieberman. Do you see much of a difference in the politics of a Ralph Nader and the politics of a Dennis Kucinich?
I really like Kucinich a lot. If he were president, that would definitely be a step in the right direction. But I don't see how Moore can be supporting Clark. I could vote for Kucinich or Sharpton. I'd even vote for Dean (with the hope that he telling the truth when he says he wants to stop the Democratic Party from being Republican-Lite). Everyone else there is too much of a Republican wannabe for me.

I am willing to compromise and support a genuine liberal Democrat and even a center-left guy like Dean. But if one of these others guys gets the nomination, I'm either voting Green or voting for Walt Brown (http://www.votesocialist.org/).

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Dean IS Republican-lite. I do not trust him to prevent pulling the party more to the right.

What have you read about Gen. Clark? I have not found any reason for radicals to oppose him other than the fact that he is a former general who oversaw the bombing of Kosovo. Moore insists that Clark advocated a land invasion that would have killed fewer civilians. Is this disputed?

Why do you despise Clark? If you are willing to support Dean, why not Clark? He may be more electable and he seems to be more liberal than the centrist Dean.

[Al Creed]

Whats the deal on Al Sharpton? I don't know much about his platform (I'm willing to learn though), although his title "reverend" makes me a little wary...

I dont trust Lieberman at all, nor the ex-general.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Sharpton is no theocrat--he is a greater champion of church and state than the Repubs or even some other Dems. MoveOn.org has some info on him, I'm sure--links and things. Then again, it links right to his campaign page--maybe you should just google for it...

[Sabocat]

I particularly liked in the book, Michaels description of the family Bin Laden's movement the day after 9/11 and the connection to the family.

I found it particularly disturbing that 48 hours after the attack, that Bush had a Saudi prince on the balcony with him at night as a "friend".

Never mind that the hijackers were mostly Saudi's. Oh to be a fly on the wall and to have heard that conversation.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

It is troubling to consider how the Bush family's personal relationship with the bin Ladens and the Saudi royal family could be compromising our security. Moore wrote of some intelligence report, I believe, in Dude that the White House censored a sizable chunk of because it exposed the terrorist ties of the Saudi royal family.

How much flak has the administration given intelligence gatherers about exposing the House of Saud? Was the "intelligence failure" that the 9/11 attacks are blamed on due to the fact that the CIA could not trace the terrorists to the source?

[Al Creed]

After checking out his platform on his site, I hereby give Al Sharpton my Seal of Approval.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

RavenFan,

I dig Sharpton, too. What impressed you especially?

Have you read up on Dennis Kucinich? He is a good candidate, too...

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Moore's book has just been confirmed as #1 in the New York Times for the third straight week. It has already sold its millionth copy--something Stupid White Men needed over a year to do.

What do you think about that, comrades?

[Al Creed]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 30 2003, 06:34 PM
RavenFan,

I dig Sharpton, too. What impressed you especially?

Have you read up on Dennis Kucinich? He is a good candidate, too...
I like his stance on equal medicare, and education

I like Kucinich's stance on NAFTA, I DESPISE NAFTA

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I find that Kucinich is speaking to more of the issues, and giving great answers to all of the questions (or at least great for a Democrat)...

Sharpton has impressed me by making his priorities--the vote, health care, equality for women--into constitutional amendments...

[Al Creed]

I want Sharpton to win, and have Kucinich as his running mate

[RedComrade]

Kucinich's ideals are by far the most appealing to those of us on the far left except for one fairly big one, abortion. Kucinich is a pro-lifer. Another thing that bothers me about Kucinich is his electability, I just don't seem him beating Bush. Don't be fooled into supporting Clark either, he's probably worse than Lieberman and has a history with the Republican party and was a speaker at some Republican fundraisers including a big one for Reagan. Labor's pick seems to be Gephardt, he ran back in 88' on an anti-free trade, pro labor ticket and has got all the big unions endorsements, he also seems to be more electable then someone like Kucinich. I'm still undecided though but it doesn't really matter because i won't be voting untill the next election anyway.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 09:12 PM
Ever since my town's libary flooded and they tore it down the new one hasn't opened up yet, it's only been two years, it's cool, it's cool.
two years, man. Too bad the money for that library has gone to the war chest, just like R.A.T.M. said,
"Weapons not foods not home not shoes not need
Just feed tha war cannibal animal I
Walk tha corner to the rubble
That used to be a library
Line up to tha mind cemetary"

Eating at starbucks is feeding the belly of the beast. Even in "Austin Powers", who owns Starbucks? Dr. Evil.

I like the idea to do what abbie hoffman suggests. Steal this book.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

RedComrade,

Kucinich used to be anti-choice. He has changed his mind in recent years.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by Marxist in [email protected] 29 2003, 12:40 PM
Dean IS Republican-lite. I do not trust him to prevent pulling the party more to the right.

What have you read about Gen. Clark? I have not found any reason for radicals to oppose him other than the fact that he is a former general who oversaw the bombing of Kosovo. Moore insists that Clark advocated a land invasion that would have killed fewer civilians. Is this disputed?

Why do you despise Clark? If you are willing to support Dean, why not Clark? He may be more electable and he seems to be more liberal than the centrist Dean.
Clark wasn't even a registered Democrat when he announced his candidacy. He strikes me as someone who sees a chance to gain some power and is going for it. If a vulnerable left-wing Democrat president were in power, I have little doubt that he'd be there running as a Republican

[Alejandro C]

I just finished this book, and for some reason i really hated it. maybe because of the thing with mumia at the end; but throughout the whole book i thought moore's writing was too childish. He *****es too much. In his other book i read -STW- he had some interesting anecdotes about his film making and running for school board and working with nader that broke up his *****ing and made it seem charming. there a mood to this book that strikes me as being very petty. like moore was just posturing for his newfound support. and some of the reviews he put on the back!

"he may be more of a factor in the next election cycle than all the OTHER, more glamorous oscar attendees now lining up at fund-raisers for Dean."

why he put THAT on the back of his book. I think he was trying to sell it as THE democrats book, or the liberals book. That should come as a hard sell to anyone whos read his other book or seen that he rightfully should hate both parties equally. and now his endorsement of clark... what the hell happened to that guy. hes lost it.

[(*]

MiN, I read something on the net (could have been here) about Moore's comments on Mumia (in that book). Something that Mumia is probably guilty. Was that taken out of context? Or has he changed his mind...He used to think that Mumia was innocent I believe.

[Alejandro C]

it was in a section in which he was explaining how to talk to your conservative brother in law, moore is telling leftist to admit that they we have made mistakes to show the conservatives that we recongnize when were wrong. the very first MISTAKE he admits to is mumia:

"Mumia probably killed that guy. There, I said it. That does not mean he should be denied a fair trial or that he should be put to death. But because we don't want to see him or anyone executed, the efforts to defend him may have over-looked the fact that he did indeed kill that cop. This takes nothing away from the eloquence of his writings or commentatry, or the important place he now holld on the international political stage. But he probably did kill that guy"

- thats the whole quote about mumia, so there is no context

Next thing you know hes gonna be saying, 'yeah huey probably killed that cop too, and fred hampton was only killed in self defense.' what a bunch of bullshit. Not only does that hurt Mumia's case tremedously by giving that as the first impression to millions who may have never heard of Mumia, but the idea that he really killed that cop is rediculous to anyone who has read any real facts about that case. I saw it as some sick and desperate attempt to gain some credibility from the right by being hard on the left as well.

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by Alejandro [email protected] 19 2004, 11:56 PM
I just finished this book, and for some reason i really hated it. maybe because of the thing with mumia at the end; but throughout the whole book i thought moore's writing was too childish. He *****es too much. In his other book i read -STW- he had some interesting anecdotes about his film making and running for school board and working with nader that broke up his *****ing and made it seem charming. there a mood to this book that strikes me as being very petty. like moore was just posturing for his newfound support. and some of the reviews he put on the back!

"he may be more of a factor in the next election cycle than all the OTHER, more glamorous oscar attendees now lining up at fund-raisers for Dean."

why he put THAT on the back of his book. I think he was trying to sell it as THE democrats book, or the liberals book. That should come as a hard sell to anyone whos read his other book or seen that he rightfully should hate both parties equally. and now his endorsement of clark... what the hell happened to that guy. hes lost it.
Yeah I tend to agree with you there, this book was not written on a very high level. However, it does contain quite a bit of interesting information, mainly in the first few chapters of the book, regarding the all too cozy relationship between the Bush family and the al-Sauds (the Saudi royal family) I also found the part detailing the preferencial treatmnet of the Bin-Laden family in the United States in the days immiedetly following 9/11.

This book would be most useful for providing guidance to the less informed, because it lays out things in a easy to read format, after reading mine I passed it on to someone at my school. It is our duty to share such materials with others.