UK fascist mockery of Hyman Minsky and Karl Polanyi?

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/true-colours-is-blue-labour-the-way-forward-for-the-left-2293425.html


When I meet Lord Glasman for breakfast on the Palace of Westminster balcony, he seems to have lost weight and is clearly revelling in his new role. "Welcome to the magic kingdom," he says as we walk in, an observation that gains some charm from the fact that he still lives above a shop in Hackney. Over fried bread, beans and mushrooms, ask him to explain Blue Labour. "There are three poles," he says. "First: a conception of the common good. That comes from Aristotle. Second: an impulse to organise labour. That comes from [American economist Hyman] Minsky and [Chicago-based community organiser Saul] Alinsky. And third: decommodification. That means stopping things that were not produced for sale being sold. That comes from [Hungarian political theorist Karl] Polanyi."

Yeah, Britain's newest fascist tendency sure has a clue (not) about zero structural and cyclical unemployment. :rolleyes:

[Feodor Augustus]

If 'Blue Labour' gains ground, it could have a quite positive radicalising effect in the other direction: i.e. a revival of some kind of 'Red Labour'.

Worth pondering, at least.

[Jose Gracchus]

Is it really appropriate to call Blue Labour "fascist"?

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Of course:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/uk-labour-party-t155638/index.html
http://www.revleft.com/vb/dont-underestimate-toxic-t155636/index.html

[bricolage]

Is it really appropriate to call Blue Labour "fascist"?
Of course not, but then DNZ has never really grasped what most terms mean anyway.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Riiiight. :rolleyes:

There's a reason behind the intimate relationship between anti-political left syndicalism and proto-fascist and fascist movements.

[Jose Gracchus]

:rolleyes:

Where does that even come from in this discussion? You're just trying to regurgitate your Macnair bilge, as if the scabby SPD having Freikorps shoot Communists in the head compares favorably with the "left syndicalists" who tried to lead a real social revolution in Spain. Put up or shut up. Don't vaguely imply arguments - state them clearly and support them thoroughly.

[bricolage]

Ok fine we can just go around calling everything fascist, it sounds good in slogans and enables us to slash the complexities of capitalist domination into easy soundbites. It's a good strategy, you don't agree? Because you are FASCIST!!!!

[Invader Zim]

Is it really appropriate to call Blue Labour "fascist"?

No, DNZ clearly doesn't actually know what fascism is.

[graymouser]

I find it hilarious that you think right-populism is a-okay, and the left should strategically ally itself with it, but center-right groups taking a nativist stance is "fascism."

DNZ, have you read Guerin (himself an anarchist, not a Trotskyist) on fascism? It doesn't read as if you have, because your accusations seem to have no understanding of the dynamics of fascism as a mass movement. Blue Labour seems to be mostly a from-above stance for some electoral officials to take, with almost no classical fascist components except for a very bad reading on your part of the concept of corporatism.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Where does that even come from in this discussion? You're just trying to regurgitate your Macnair bilge

Bricolage started with an off-topic one-liner. I merely responded.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I find it hilarious that you think right-populism is a-okay, and the left should strategically ally itself with it, but center-right groups taking a nativist stance is "fascism."

I didn't say right-populism is OK. It depends on the programmatic content. There is the possibility (and this has happened before) of right-populists being left-populists on economic issues, advocating some form of grassroots-based democratic reform, not adopting nativist lines (certainly beyond honing immigration policies to favour skilled immigrants, but that's a liberal position), and yet stressing something like "tough on crime," "war on drugs," etc.


DNZ, have you read Guerin (himself an anarchist, not a Trotskyist) on fascism? It doesn't read as if you have

There are too many conflicting works on fascism because of very different permutations in at least Italy and Germany.


Blue Labour seems to be mostly a from-above stance for some electoral officials to take, with almost no classical fascist components except for a very bad reading on your part of the concept of corporatism.

Lord Glasman is an academic, not part of the Labour party's leadership circles. And no, I understand corporatism quite well.

[Paul Cockshott]

Is it really appropriate to call Blue Labour "fascist"?
It looks a bit over the top to do that to me.

When I saw the headline here I thought it surprising that the BNP took an interest in Polanyi and Minsky.

[Hit The North]

A discussion of this "nascent ideology" would probably be quite interesting, so it is a pity that DNZ has introduced it from such a peculiar view point.

A less waffly article which concentrates on outlining the general principles of "Blue Labour" can be found on the BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12759902).

It seems clear that this represents Labour's first attempt to reformulate its position within the matrix of normal bourgeois democracy, by absorbing the critique of its electoral opponents and putting a Labour spin on it.

A quite humdrum manoeuvre and far from the break with bourgeois democracy that a fascist movement would represent.

[Feodor Augustus]

Is it really appropriate to call Blue Labour "fascist"?

Seems more like the quite typical social patriotism of right-wing social democracy to me, which is as old as social-democracy itself. What is common to all the 'very different permutations' (DNZ) of fascism, is that it is a mass movement based on violence: thus perhaps if 'Blue Labour' was able to harness the energies of the EDL street-thugs, then maybe we could talk of some kind of proto-fascism.

For now, it just seems like Labour's latest attempt to appeal to the (largely mythical) 'conservative working class'. Tony Blair's been warning recently that a Labour turn to the left would end in failure, and there appears to be something of an internal struggle going on in the Party over this issue. Of course, it was the break with Clause Four that really marked the downward spiral of 'Red Labour', so to speak. So hopefully the 'Blue Labour' nonsense can help to better demarcate the lines of conflict, and bring attention back toward the 'Red' (i.e. socialist) element of the Labour Party.

[Die Neue Zeit]

A discussion of this "nascent ideology" would probably be quite interesting

Go back to the two links I referred to in Post #4.