Recall is a bad use of democracy

[Anti-Fascist]

Today is a sad day for democracy.

The recall campaign ends in California as voters decide whether to recall Gov. Gray Davis. If so, they must choose one of the myriad candidates running for office ranging from upstart candidate and campaign front-runner actor Arnold Schwarzenegger to seasoned politicians like Republican state Sen. Tom McClintock and Democratic Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante to fringe celebrities such as Gary Coleman and Gallagher.

Instead of taking charge and voting someone they really wanted into office in 2002 and taking responsibility for the results of that election, residents of California are taking the easy way out with this recall, which was facilitated by a group of well-financed, angry Republicans.

Every politician's polls go up and down, and Gov. Davis is no exception. The legitimate way to remove an elected official whose polls slide is to vote him out in the next election — unless he or she has committed some impeachable offense — as Americans have been doing for hundreds of years. If we were to decide politicians should be replaced every time their popularity polls slip below an arbitrary level, we could have a new set of politicians every day.

We have no suggestions of whom the people of California should choose to elect if the recall passes. However, we are concerned with the rise in celebrity politicians as shown in this election.

In last week's latest campaign developments, The Los Angeles Times reported a dearth of disturbing allegations about Schwarzenegger's treatment of women. The paper reported one incident occurred as recently as 2000. If Schwarzenegger mistreated women as a powerful entertainer, would he be less likely to continue that as a powerful politician? Do tendencies toward harassment go away that quickly? We don't know, but these questions should be of concern to voters.

Although Schwarzenegger didn't admit to any of the specific accounts, he did say he "behaved badly sometimes" and apologized.

Realistically, though, these reports by the Times probably won't have much affect on Schwarzenegger's campaign simply because he's a celebrity. It's not acceptable for anyone to sexually harass women, yet the public will cut Schwarzenegger slack. This is sad because, unlike drug use, for example, where you are only hurting yourself, nonconsensual sexual acts hurt other people, too.

Although the reality of this recall election is saddening, we can all at least be glad Arnold Schwarzenegger is not a natural born citizen and can't run for U.S. president.

(Source) (http://www.dailyillini.com/oct03/oct07/opinions/stories/edit.shtml)

[YKTMX]

I think the fact that people call be recalled is one of the better and more respectable parts of American democracy.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I also agree with the idea of recall in principle. I think it is the only way to hold political officials accountable. They can satisfy their campaign promises, or we can yank them from power.

Of course, U.S. politicians lie their asses off and do not get recalled...

I think it comes down to this: recall is a good feature of democracy, but it is a nifty idea that is abused by plutocracy (aren't all nifty ideas abused by plutocracy?).

The recall, as it is being used in California, is just a second chance for the GOP to win another political throne that they surprisingly failed to claim in their coup in 2002. Gov. Davis's gravest offense in the eyes of the recall crowd is that he beat a loaded Republican in the real election.

[(*]

The problem with this recall is that all the candidates suck!

Except Camejo. Is he still running?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

(*,

Firstly, nice pic...

Second, I think Camejo is still running. I know Arianna dropped out and threw her vote to Bustamante.

[Alejandro C]

the recall obviously won't work, only the two parties have a chance at winning it anyway, so what's the difference.

by the way did anyone catch m&m(michael moore) on the daily show last night. i'm sure all of you know that he was elected to head the school board when he was 18. but you probably didn't know HE was recalled. they put his recall ballot in and it turned up the highest voter turnout in that districts history. he ended up winning. an interesting side note.

i like the idea of a recall because now who ever loses is just going to try get another recall done. this will end up exposing to all californians that republicans and democrats will never get anything done. i suspect california will by in anarchy for a long time after this.

also the daily show is going live tonight as the votes come in. i love that show. -sigh-

[FabFabian]

Recall is abuse of democracy.

[timbaly]

I must say that I like the same aspects of the recall as the previous posters do. However I would like to inform you that there is an attempt to ammend the constitution and all non American born citizens of 20 years or more to run for president. If it is approved by the Federal gov't it would mean that Schwarzenegger would be eligible to run for president and hold the office.

[Hitman47]

Well it is a sad day, the Republicans won.

I live in the state and my family voted NO ON RECALL and yes on Bustamante

and im totally angered and dissapointed :angry:

this exhibits how MONEY and FAME dominates this country.


I'm totally frustrated comrades :(

[Firestorm]

What is Arnold Schwarzenegger or any media icon doing by running for an important political position! What a circus!!!

America is re-enforcing image is everything education is nothing. This only furthers American social stupidity. I find the US to be a morally degrading country filled with right-winger zombies.

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 08:23 PM
I must say that I like the same aspects of the recall as the previous posters do. However I would like to inform you that there is an attempt to ammend the constitution and all non American born citizens of 20 years or more to run for president. If it is approved by the Federal gov't it would mean that Schwarzenegger would be eligible to run for president and hold the office.
Actually, he's already eligible for election as president. Article II, Section 1, paragraph 5 of the United $tates Constitution reads as follows:

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States." (source: Library of Congress website, U.S. Constitution (http://memory.loc.gov/const/const.html))

Basically it says that anyone born in or who is currently a citizen is elligible. He's already been living here for 14 years. If what you heard is accurate, the new ammendment would be an increase in the requirements (raising the standard from 14 to 20 years). Sounds to me like whoever told you this doesn't know their Constitutional law. I spent a whole semester in college studying it as a required historcal elective for history majors.

What's even more troubling to me than his attitudes toward women were his statements in admiration of Adolf Hitler. He once told the director of the documentary "Pumping Up" (I'm paraphrasing here) that he was impressed with Hitler, as he admired anyone who could pull themselves up from nothing and become so "powerful." Not only that but according to a recent article published on Mother Jones Magazine's website he may be indirectly linked to the KKK. "The poor boy from the Alpine boondocks was a key endorser of anti-immigrant Proposition 187 in 1994, and, even more sinisterly, a longtime board member of U.S. English, a national organization with notorious ties to men in white hoods." (source: Mother Jones Magazine, "Cry California" (http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/36/we_540_01.html), Mike Davis; September 4, 2003)

That mother fucker's got more skeletons in his closet than the Bible's got Psalms.

[Blackberry]

I saw quite a bit of this comedy from Australia, and I must say, the U.S.A. has dethroned Australia in the promotion of stupidity. ("G'Day" at the Sydney Olympics and Kangaroos hopping around in movies and all that.)

Congratulations.

Anyway, on a more serious note, I think that this "recall election" has really taught us a valuable lesson. Bourgeois elections really are circuses, with plenty of clowns to point and laugh at.

[Ian]

Camejo still around? he was in the American SWP years ago, is he still a marxist?

[praxis1966]

Dunno about Camejo. I'm a member of the American SPF and a self-proclaimed syndicalist, if it makes you feel any better.

[FatFreeMilk]

Doesn&#39;t matter now <_< Ahnold is the new gov damnit :( :unsure: :angry: :ph34r:

[Hampton]

Who else thinks Danny Devito is going to be Arnold&#39;s Assisstant Governor?

[Funky Monk]

Recall is a great aspect of democracy&#33;


Wish it was more evident in Uk, pity apathy generally puts pay to it.

[Bradyman]

Recall is not the answer. For godsake the recall was staged by an elite group of republicans that were mad at the economic times as well as the budget defciet. For one, governers in America have very little control over the economy, quite frankly, the government has no control of the fluxuations that occur in a capitalists state. So to use economic hardships as a basis of recall is a terrible thing to do. Now I would really like to kick out Bush, but the american system of government already dictates the procedure of which it is done: election. To bypass elections is to bypass some of the founding principles in democracy. In addition by implementing recalls, more politicians would stay middle of the road, they would pander to public oppinion, an oppinion that&#39;s never the same and thus no progress in either direction (right or left) would occur. That&#39;s just my thoughts. Sorry i wrote so much.

[Lefty]

It seems to me that the people recalling someone they don&#39;t like is one of the most direct forms of democracy possible. Personally, democracy is something I like. However, the California election just shows how stupid people are, electing Arnold. What the hell were they thinking? The guy is as dumb as a rock.

[El Commandante]

The recall is a mistake but it is part of a collection of other weaknesses in the political system in California especially. In California the people are entitled to vote on propositions - a proposal to be put into the state constitution which limits or directs the actions of the Governor and assembly. These are often voted upon by the minority - white, male, politically active, middle class - so do little to represent the majority.

In the proposition process legislation has been passed which has included the forcing of funds generated from fuel tax to be spent only on transport matters so that excess money cannot be spent on social policy. Another is that taxes can only be increased if 2/3 of the assembly agree to them ... this is virtually impossible as it requires cross party support - so it is really little wonder that California is in such a mess financially.

[timbaly]

Originally posted by praxis1966+Oct 8 2003, 04:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (praxis1966 @ Oct 8 2003, 04:39 AM)
[email protected] 7 2003, 08:23 PM
I must say that I like the same aspects of the recall as the previous posters do. However I would like to inform you that there is an attempt to ammend the constitution and all non American born citizens of 20 years or more to run for president. If it is approved by the Federal gov&#39;t it would mean that Schwarzenegger would be eligible to run for president and hold the office.
Actually, he&#39;s already eligible for election as president. Article II, Section 1, paragraph 5 of the United &#036;tates Constitution reads as follows:

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States." (source: Library of Congress website, U.S. Constitution (http://memory.loc.gov/const/const.html))

Basically it says that anyone born in or who is currently a citizen is elligible. He&#39;s already been living here for 14 years. If what you heard is accurate, the new ammendment would be an increase in the requirements (raising the standard from 14 to 20 years). Sounds to me like whoever told you this doesn&#39;t know their Constitutional law. I spent a whole semester in college studying it as a required historcal elective for history majors.

[/b]
You&#39;re misinterpreting it. What it says is "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution." That means that natural born citizens are eligible and people who were US citizens but not natural born citizens can be president if they were citizens before the constitution came into effect, that means they would have to be born in the 1700&#39;s.

[James]

Yeah you&#39;re right.

praxis1966: maybe you should rethink your career.


Recall: its a means of accountability.
I suspect alot are against it because this time it worked in favour of republicans.
Imagine if it was a hard line Republican being re-called. You may sing a different tune.

But i agree with the point that it would be bad if they were recalled everytime they made a mistake. This point is not justified however; as this does not happen.

Maybe we are pre-judging Arnie anyway. Look at Reagan. He&#39;s one of America&#39;s best loved presidents, and was a good politician (although i of course don&#39;t agree with his policies).
Alot have top face it that people are going to vote for a face and personality in such circumstances.

Anyway, if he&#39;s poor; manhandles some women; kills someone; goes crazy: he can always be recalled&#33;

[timbaly]

Does anyone have any information on the new plan to allow foreign born citizens to become president? I had heard it on world News Tonight but I haven&#39;t heard an update since.

[Hampton]

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, is pushing a constitutional amendment that would allow his friend Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for the White House.

Under the Hatch Amendment, foreign-born people who have been naturalized U.S. citizens for at least 20 years would be eligible to run for president.

Yep (http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/7/15/171016)

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I agree with this amendment because I do not think you should have to be born in the U.S. to run for prez. It is sad, though, that this is only being pursued because the GOP wants the "Governator" to get a promotion...

[timbaly]

You seriously think thats the reason? I&#39;m not even shure if Shwarznegger would even want to be president.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2003, 05:21 PM
You seriously think thats the reason? I&#39;m not even shure if Shwarznegger would even want to be president.
Why not?

[timbaly]

I just don&#39;t get that vibe from him, and do you think veteran members of the Republican Party would support his candidacy?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2003, 08:50 PM
I just don&#39;t get that vibe from him, and do you think veteran members of the Republican Party would support his candidacy?
I do not doubt for a minute that if Arnie desires the executive branch of government, and he is given a shot at the most executive of the executive branch (the presidency), that he will take it.

Arnie is socially liberal, but he is a hardcore Republican on economic questions. As long as he is electable and will defend the pocketbooks of the ruling class, the GOP will gladly run him in 2008. The religious right can be coopted, and Arnie can be advised to tone his tolerance down.

[timbaly]

It is very possible, not only will the GOP get votes from there usual voters they&#39;ll also get plenty from people who will vote for him because he&#39;s a movie star. It actuallly does seem like a very good idea plus California might actually add it&#39;s electors to the Republican side which would all but destroy the Democrats chances of winning the election.

[timbaly]

Double Post