Did Josef Stalin And Or Che Guevara

[hatzel]

Yes. But only in the phrases 'freedom is an unmitigated evil' and 'liberty must be forever abolished'...

[Spawn of Stalin]

Yes they both did actually. I'd suggest heading over to marxists.org or picking up some of their books to see for yourself

[Kamos]

Yes. But only in the phrases 'freedom is an unmitigated evil' and 'liberty must be forever abolished'...

This is false.

[Impulse97]

This is false.


I do believe he was being sarcastic.

[Kamos]

I do believe he was being sarcastic.

And I was not.

[Impulse97]

And I was not.

You stated the obvious, what do you want a cookie? :rolleyes:

[hatzel]

You stated the obvious, what do you want a cookie? :rolleyes:

Not to blow my own trumpet, but I feel that I am more deserving of that cookie, so can't I have it...?

[hatzel]

Oh, and, to seriously answer the question...I just went on Che's Wikiquote page (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Che_Guevara) and hit the word 'freedom' and found the following:


Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men — how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom? The government of the United States is not the champion of freedom, but rather the perpetrator of exploitation and oppression against the peoples of the world and against a large part of its own population.
Each time a country is freed, we say, it is a defeat for the world imperialist system, but we must agree that real liberation or breaking away from the imperialist system is not achieved by the mere act of proclaiming independence or winning an armed victory in a revolution. Freedom is achieved when imperialist economic domination over a people is brought to an end.

Our task is to prevent the present generation, torn asunder by its conflicts, from becoming perverted and from perverting new generations. We must not bring into being either docile servants of official thought or scholarship students who live at the expense of the state — practising "freedom." Already there are revolutionaries coming who will sing the song of the new man in the true voice of the people. This is a process, which takes time.

We are doing everything possible to give labor this new status of social duty and to link it on the one side with the development of a technology which will create the conditions for greater freedom, and on the other side with voluntary work based on a Marxist appreciation of the fact that man truly reaches a full human condition when he produces without being driven by the physical need to sell his labor as a commodity.

A school of artistic experimentation is invented, which is said to be the definition of freedom; but this “experimentation” has its limits, imperceptible until there is a clash, that is, until the real problems of individual alienation arise. Meaningless anguish or vulgar amusement thus become convenient safety valves for human anxiety. The idea of using art as a weapon of protest is combated. Those who play by the rules of the game are showered with honors — such honors as a monkey might get for performing pirouettes. The condition is that one does not try to escape from the invisible cage.

We socialists are freer because we are more fulfilled; we are more fulfilled because we are freer. The skeleton of our complete freedom is already formed. The flesh and the clothing are lacking; we will create them.

It is absolutely just to avoid all useless sacrifices. Therefore, it is so important to clear up the real possibilities that dependent America may have of liberating itself through pacific means. For us, the solution to this question is quite clear: the present moment may or may not be the proper one for starting the struggle, but we cannot harbor any illusions, and we have no right to do so, that freedom can be obtained without fighting.Now, to be honest, I couldn't care less what Stalin had to say (read: there isn't much on his Wikiquote page :laugh:), but that should be a start...

[Impulse97]

Not to blow my own trumpet, but I feel that I am more deserving of that cookie, so can't I have it...?

Go ahead, but you know what they say, if you give a rabbi a cookie he'll want a glass of milk. :lol:

[hatzel]

Go ahead, but you know what they say, if you give a rabbi a cookie he'll want a glass of milk. :lol:

Well...if you're offering...just make it soya :rolleyes:

[Rusty Shackleford]

freedom and liberty are both empty terms on their own.

freedom from who/what or for who/what

liberty for who/what

"Brothers to the sun, to freedom"

sJ4ZKzO4YJA

[Rafiq]

Troll ^^^^^^^ GTFO or be banned

[hatzel]

Troll ^^^^^^^ GTFO or be banned

It's very funny because now that he's been banned and his posts deleted, it looks like you're accusing Rusty :rolleyes:

[tbasherizer]

What was the original question? Something about a made-up quote of Stalin's or Che's?

I find it interesting that in their quest to show how silly the young 'uns are in wearing che shirts and stuff, rightists will just straight up fabricate stuff. "Oh sure he never said that precise thing about abolishing freedom, but he's a communist, so that's what he was thinking." Also, rightists can only think in their own frame of mind. When they can only think in terms of grade 7 civics class, that's what they argue with. So when a communist comes along with a different analysis than theirs, it means that the communist must be against what they believe in (freedom, liberty, etc.). The flag-waving American teaparty type is just really annoying. I'm happy I don't have to argue with them so much in Canada.

[Impulse97]

It's very funny because now that he's been banned and his posts deleted, it looks like you're accusing Rusty :rolleyes:

That's what I thought! I was like dude stfu rusty's chill.

Whats going on in this thread? I'm very confused.

[hatzel]

Whats going on in this thread? I'm very confused.

It was a stupid thread started with this post (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2135656&postcount=15) which was binned when Maoy Waoy was banned, but for some reason the thread was left open (along with a few others he started), so now it's aaaaall crazy up in here! I don't know why these threads are left open, to be honest, if the starting post has been binned...I'm sure it will be shut soon, though, as soon as a mod notices its here and still open and crappy *cough*hint*cough* :)