Private Property

[W1N5T0N]

By Private Property, do the Marx and Proudhon refer to the private ownership of the means of production by capitalists

OR

do they mean "ME OWNING THIS COMPUTER".

Because Proudhon said Property is theft, how can that be interpeted?
I understand how my owning a factory could lead to robbing the workers by surplus value extraction, but how does my owning of this computer (that i am writing on) qualify as theft?

[graymouser]

They mean the former. Possessions are not the same as means of production.

[Kamos]

The Communist Manifesto explains the difference between capital property and "property worked for" quite nicely, almost in layman's terms I'd say.

[Pretty Flaco]

"The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property."

From the communist manifesto.

[W1N5T0N]

okay, thanks for enlightening me :) by bourgeois property, you mean the shareholder's shares, factories right?

[Die Rote Fahne]

okay, thanks for enlightening me :) by bourgeois property, you mean the shareholder's shares, factories right?
Factories, tools, profits, etc etc.

[Kropotkin93]

So in a system of decentralized 'communes' of free association, how would a computer be produced? how would the different parts be traded?

[06hurdwp]

I really don't care that much about whether or not private property is abolished. It is at the absolute bottom of my list of priorities to make the world a better place.

I wouldn't mind having private property or not - to be honest it would have very little effect on the items I had anyway.

[hatzel]

I really don't care that much about whether or not private property is abolished

I hate to break this to you, but it's kind of the entire point of communism, something definitely worth caring about...

[06hurdwp]

I hate to break this to you, but it's kind of the entire point of communism, something definitely worth caring about...

I think I overexaggurated there, it is definitely important to me, and will improve everyone's lives; BUT it is not at the top of my list of priorities. Right at the top is the abolition of capitalism, the equality of everyone, etc etc.

It is still important though, I definitely did word that post wrong.

[Pretty Flaco]

I hate to break this to you, but it's kind of the entire point of communism, something definitely worth caring about...
Most socialists sort of think it's a big deal and really the whole point too.

What else could socialism be? It's inevitable that we'll seize the means of production, after all. :p

[Magón]

I think I overexaggurated there, it is definitely important to me, and will improve everyone's lives; BUT it is not at the top of my list of priorities. Right at the top is the abolition of capitalism, the equality of everyone, etc etc.

It is still important though, I definitely did word that post wrong.

You realize, when Communists speak about Private Property, they're speaking about the Means of Production, and not wanting to get rid of Private Property in the way Communists talk about it, the Means of Production again, sort of goes against what Communism, among many other things, is trying to abolish to make the world a better place. It's sort of a founding principle to the whole ideology, and not thinking it's all that important sort of contradicts your Marxist or Anarchist beliefs.

[Pretty Flaco]

Yeah, we're not talking about abolishing having a place of your own or having bicycles or whatnot.

[Dumb]

I think I overexaggurated there, it is definitely important to me, and will improve everyone's lives; BUT it is not at the top of my list of priorities. Right at the top is the abolition of capitalism, the equality of everyone, etc etc.

It is still important though, I definitely did word that post wrong.

How are private bourgeois property and capitalism separate and distinct? I've always thought of them as synonymous - unless you want to specify that capitalism is a system based on private bourgeois property, in which case we're splitting hairs.

[OhYesIdid]

How are private bourgeois property and capitalism separate and distinct? I've always thought of them as synonymous - unless you want to specify that capitalism is a system based on private bourgeois property, in which case we're splitting hairs.

Me too. As for 'private' private property, I think it could be produced and distributed as seen fit, but not necessarily: part of the Big Lie is the supposed end of individual rewards for work. If you work more, you get more. It's just that this logic is not the one that has brought capitalism about, and neither does it imply a minority's ownership of the means of production.

[Sixiang]

I think I overexaggurated there, it is definitely important to me, and will improve everyone's lives; BUT it is not at the top of my list of priorities. Right at the top is the abolition of capitalism, the equality of everyone, etc etc.

It is still important though, I definitely did word that post wrong.
Abolishing capitalism should entail abolishing private property...