Conformity?

[Mazzen]

I have a friend that insists that communism/socialism cannot exist with out conformity. He says that "just as christians create Jesus, socialism creates conformity." He has many valid points. How is total conformity to be avoided in a communist/socialist society? He believes that capitalism allows more variety, choice, &c. and that's why he's pro-capitalism. Help me out here.

[swapna]

Mazzen,
When millions are dying /suffering without basic amenities like food clothing,shelter,medicines how could your friend think about variety.
Ask him to think about variety and choice after every basic need of every human being is satisfied.

[Mazzen]

Very good point, comrade. That still does not answer me post though...

[apathy maybe]

Capitalism creates conformity. People are encouraged to buy a product through advertising.

Anyway and social structure creates conformity. You can't have a social structure with out the majority of people conforming to an acceptable behaviour system.

Also status. People living in a capitalist society buy things then they have more status then others. Then others buy the same thing. That is why brandnames are such a big thing.

Your friend is stupid if he thinks that somehow cappitalism is better because of less conformty. You also have more crime, more inequality, more damage to the environment, etc etc. The differences are small.

Last thing, Christians create Christ, not Jesus. Jesus became Christ because of the early Christians (who where a sect of Jewdism).

[RyeN]

Tell you friend that he is sadly mistaken if he thinks capitolism gives you more choice. They give you the immpresion of more choice, however its like asking which pile of shit do you want to eat. The green one or the red one. Seriously though capitolism pushes new idea's back every day. Not only in medicine but technologie. Do you think that we really need to be driving around in cars that run on petroleum for the main source of energy. No it all a lie, but because a new way of doing things would ruin the need for Rich oil companies those way of thinking are bought out and never expanded.

Ask your friend which of the windows Operating sytems he likes the best. Or when he takes some advil for a hedache why doesnt the pain go away. Ask him why his car is designed to break after 5 years, or how many times a year he replaces his light bulb. There are countless examples of the reprset state we are in due to capitolism. Im sory to rant but people like this are brain washed morons

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

What are his valid points, because I see no way in which communism prevents individuality and forces conformity upon people.

[redstar2000]

I have to agree with the others who have posted on this topic: the appearance of choice is not choice.

In plain language, the message of capitalism is that you can construct a "unique identity" for yourself by what you purchase.

Real individuality--what you've learned, what you think, what you say, what you do--is discouraged at best and severely punished at worst.

In fact, the only people who can be "real" individuals under capitalism are the very wealthy and the very poor. If you have enough money, you can do almost anything you like and even the law will avert its eyes. If you are very poor, you can do almost anything you like that doesn't require money because who cares what "losers" do.

The great majority of people--the working class--are not free to express their individuality to any significant extent. If they try, they will lose their jobs, lose their cars and their homes, lose their status and become...well, "losers".

The myth of "communism" as an "ant's nest" of rigid social conformity comes from the 20th century Leninist versions of socialism. By all accounts, those were rather unpleasant places to live for the most part.

But none of that really has anything to do with communism, where "the free development of each is the condition of the free development of all". (Marx)

Don't forget that arguing with people who are really hostile to significant change is like trying to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Mazzen]

Awesome. I knew y'all would come up with something that made sense. Redstar, you've studied communism and politics in general for a long time, eh?...May I ask how long? I never find a question that someone asks where you're "stumped". I'm usually fairly close to that...yet the people that challenge my beliefs aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed either.

[redstar2000]

Redstar, you've studied communism and politics in general for a long time, eh?...May I ask how long?

You may, and the answer is a little over 47 years.

Roughly about as long as I've been smoking. :D

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[suffianr]

Real individuality--what you've learned, what you think, what you say, what you do--is discouraged at best and severely punished at worst.

Hence the formation of terms such as target audience, niche markets and user communities .

The individual is assimilated into groups that are defined best by their association to particular things: Gen-X'ers like "individuality" and avoid mainstream fads, but Tweens glorify the latsest Pepsi adverts and are the biggest movers in influencing impulse-buying trends in most households.

It's easier, and essentially more const-effective for companies to dump their advertising dollars (or Euros) in attracting specific target markets, if you go along with the concept of "hard selling".

That's why we're shoved into neat little categories and branded accordingly for the marketers' benefit!

[Ian]

My original idea was to suggest to you to get new friends, but seeing as that is not entirely practical I will just go with what other comrades have said, you are not your job, you are not your bank balance, you are not what you wear, and you are not what you buy, this obvious statement is really lost to many people with a bourgeois mindset, your friend has the great luck to possess such a mentality.

Comrades have already addressed the question/s and what I have to say would be unoriginal so I will just shut up now. With any luck this could turn into a good place to direct people who have similar queries.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 05:23 AM
I have to agree with the others who have posted on this topic: the appearance of choice is not choice.

In plain language, the message of capitalism is that you can construct a "unique identity" for yourself by what you purchase.

Real individuality--what you've learned, what you think, what you say, what you do--is discouraged at best and severely punished at worst.

In fact, the only people who can be "real" individuals under capitalism are the very wealthy and the very poor. If you have enough money, you can do almost anything you like and even the law will avert its eyes. If you are very poor, you can do almost anything you like that doesn't require money because who cares what "losers" do.

The great majority of people--the working class--are not free to express their individuality to any significant extent. If they try, they will lose their jobs, lose their cars and their homes, lose their status and become...well, "losers".

The myth of "communism" as an "ant's nest" of rigid social conformity comes from the 20th century Leninist versions of socialism. By all accounts, those were rather unpleasant places to live for the most part.

But none of that really has anything to do with communism, where "the free development of each is the condition of the free development of all". (Marx)

Don't forget that arguing with people who are really hostile to significant change is like trying to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas
Nice post Redstar.