Which of these of sucky systems would you chose if you had to?

[ImStalinist]

All of the following systems, but which one would you chose if you had to?

State Capitalism

StateLESS Capitalism

Reactionary Monarchy(some Monarchies, like the one in Spain, aren't reactionary and the Spanish Monarchy help Spain become a democracy)

Oligarchy

Other

[NewLeft]

Stateless capitalism because capitalism can't exist without the state.

[Octavian]

A monarchy due to the possibility of persuasion.

[MarxSchmarx]

stateless capitalism - when the workers strike, the bosses have no one to call in to break up the strike.

[Decolonize The Left]

Silly poll. It all depends on where you sit within each of the systems. If I was king then I'd choose monarchy. If I was a royal family I'd choose oligarchy. But if I'm a prole then I'd choose stateless capitalism for the reasons MS outlined above.

And since we're arbitrarily choosing systems, shouldn't we be able to arbitrarily choose roles as well?

If so, I choose dinosaur apocalypse and I'm the biggest, meanest, T-Rex there ever was.

- August

[Manic Impressive]

stateless capitalism - when the workers strike, the bosses have no one to call in to break up the strike.
except for the starving people they pay to shoot them. the state is our only protection from capitalism.

[Decolonize The Left]

except for the starving people they pay to shoot them. the state is our only protection from capitalism.

The state is not distinct from capitalism - they operate hand in hand. The state establishes and enforces the interests of the capitalist class as it is owned and controlled by said class.

In no way shape or form does the state protect us from capitalism. In fact, the state makes it law that we have to wear our chains and enforces this law by force.

- August

[Manic Impressive]

the state incorporates the concessions which the working class have fought for and won. Without a state apparatus these things would be immediately repealed and we would be left with nothing. I count healthcare, unemployment subsidies, state housing etc as protection from capitalism. A stateless society would only lead to genocide if it is not already classless. Give me USSR state capitalism over Somalia style free markets any day.

[hatzel]

Seems that half of us have effectively chosen anarcho-capitalism, and defended it against other options, but when we're debating with anarcho-capitalists, suddenly we're all convinced it's literally the most evil suggestion there ever was :rolleyes:

[PhoenixAsh]

I can not decide on this. The least undesirable system depends on somewhat more factors than blanket classification of the economic system behind it. In this instance there is too little information and each system has its "benefits" and its horror potential.

Personally I do not care who represses me based on this amount of information. So I voted other...though I think there is some merrit in the arguments for anarcho capitalism as less undesirable.

[Manic Impressive]

I can't see how it's a hard decision what does getting rid of the state without getting rid of capitalism accomplish? I fail to see any positives.

[Demogorgon]

"Other" is sort of the answer by default, isn't it?

[Hebrew Hammer]

State capitalism (assuming we're taking the left's definition of it and not some libertarian crap). I would much rather be in Krushchev's USSR than say, some stateless, Rapture-esque society or some monarchy and all this.

[ImStalinist]

"Other" is sort of the answer by default, isn't it?
As long as other doesn't mean Fascism :rolleyes:

You get banned for that ;) and you voted Other so it is fascism by default so you get banned.

Glenn Beck told me so!

[Manic Impressive]

"Other" is sort of the answer by default, isn't it?
I don't think it's unimaginable to have a (hopefully) brief period of state capitalism after workers have taken control of the state while a system of workers councils is implemented.

If the question is which reactionary system is least harmful to workers what would your "other" choice be?

[PigmerikanMao]

Could I vote theocracy? All religious bullshit aside, there's the possibility of social programs to assist the poor based on faith and shit (social conscience). Just as long as it isn't the dark ages, at least.

[Rooster]

What the fuck is this?

[JustMovement]

Im actually a monarchist first and socialist second.

I recognise the impossibility of dragging the world back into feudalism (for now!), so I am a socialist just as a poor second choice.

[Ocean Seal]

stateless capitalism - when the workers strike, the bosses have no one to call in to break up the strike.
Don't the bosses have private thugs to call in, in stateless capitalism though?
I would chose, well they all honestly sound like hell. But state capitalism what we have now, is still more or less better than monarchy, oligarchy or stateless capitalism.

[Public Domain]

I chose 'Other', as in, suicide.

[Comrade_Oscar]

StateLESS Capitalism because if there is no state no one can prevent people from going on strike. And the state is nothing more than a committee for organizing the power the business owners have.

[Hebrew Hammer]

StateLESS Capitalism because if there is no state no one can prevent people from going on strike. And the state is nothing more than a committee for organizing the power the business owners have.

Actually, assuming there is no state, there would be nobody stoping the company's thugs from shutting the strike down.

[Johnny Kerosene]

Stateless capitalism. See: Fallout

[∞]

You mean "choose" not "chose".

[MarxSchmarx]

except for the starving people they pay to shoot them. the state is our only protection from capitalism.


Don't the bosses have private thugs to call in, in stateless capitalism though? Thugs under stateless capitalism trying to break a strike can be opposed much more readily than the national military. As far as starving people, they would be easier to incorporate into the greater strike.


Seems that half of us have effectively chosen anarcho-capitalism, and defended it against other options, but when we're debating with anarcho-capitalists, suddenly we're all convinced it's literally the most evil suggestion there ever was http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_rolleyes.gif


Well, it's like saying that I'd rather drink sewer water when my alternatives are acid, hemlock and gasoline.