What organization should a queer libertarian Marxist join?

[Leftofleft]

I am a queer, vegetarian left-Marxist with certain sympathies for various forms of left-communist and anarchist thought (for example, anarcho-syndicalism or DeLeonism).
I am looking for a political organization that would be in line/sympathetic with most of my views... any ideas?

[charley63]

If you're in the US, Solidarity is a solid Marxist group with libertarian tendencies. They also have a Queer caucus that needs some new blood.

[The Idler]

World Socialist Movement (http://www.worldsocialism.org/), Socialist Party of Great Britain (http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/). There is a 3 month free-trial of Socialist Standard at the moment for new subscribers in the UK. Some have been known to use the term anarcho-socialist. They're the only libertarian Marxist organisation around since Socialist Labor Party (US), the last DeLeonist org ceased to function. Most other Marxist orgs, including Solidarity are basically Bolshevist vanguards or if they're left-com have supported the Bolsheviks at one time or another.

[Zeus the Moose]

As The Idler pointed out, there isn't really any DeLeonist grouping any more, though the Workers International Industrial Union (http://wiiu.org/) definitely comes close. Effectively they're like the IWW but are willing to support socialist candidates in elections. They are a bit smaller than the IWW, though, and you might want to consider looking into both groups if you're interested more in the revolutionary industrial unionist side of things.

If you're not opposed to joining a group that considers itself a party, the Socialist Party USA (http://socialistparty-usa.org/) might fit you well. It's a self-described multi-tendency organisation and has a number of members who would be considered libertarian Marxist. I'm not really one of them, being more of an unorthodox Leninist, but the party is more or less broad enough to have both points of view inhabit the party together.

[Android]

I am a queer, vegetarian left-Marxist with certain sympathies for various forms of left-communist and anarchist thought (for example, anarcho-syndicalism or DeLeonism).
I am looking for a political organization that would be in line/sympathetic with most of my views... any ideas?

The users 'Zeus the Moose' and 'The Idler' have covered what groups exist that adhere to De Leonist politics or are at least influenced by it.

As far as anarcho-syndicalism goes, the only afaik self-described group in the US is the Workers Solidarity Alliance (http://workersolidarity.org/), of which the user syndicat is a member so I am sure he'd happy to field any questions you might have about them. There are also I think anarcho-syndicalists in the IWW.

Regarding left-communist, I guess you were using this term in a different sense then I would, in a looser and broader sense, going by your use of the descriptor ' libertarian marxism. I do not think a coherent political tendency called libertarian marxism can be assembled, it is more I think just a collection of the contributions of dissident, oppositionist Marxists to Stalinism which people draw inspiration. The left-com groups that exist are Internationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(US)) (US section of the International Communist Current - of which there are sympathisers on here such as madoror and others, Internationalist Workers Group (http://www.leftcom.org/en/about-us/iwg) North American affiliate of the Internationalist Communist Tendency - the user Stagger Lee is a member and Internationalist Perspective which has members in NYC, Seattle and Toronto. Aside from these formal political groups, there are looser left-com initaitves such as the Insane Dialectical Posse (http://www.flyingpicket.org/) and Insurgent Notes (http://insurgentnotes.com/) an online publication produced by people based in NYC I think.

There is also more informal groupings which would identify as libertarian Marxist (or more specifically Jamesian) I guess such as Gathering Forces (http://gatheringforces.org/) and Advance the Struggle / Unity & Struggle (http://advancethestruggle.wordpress.com/).

To answer the OP post more directly a group like NEFAC I think would probably suit you if you are keen to join a group. Personally I think people should take their time about deciding what group or initiative they want to get involved with. I have learned this lesson through experience.

[sabotage]

if you are in the northeast you can definitely feel free to get in touch with us at NEFAC/FCLN, i am their secretary. secretary at nefac dot net

but if you are outside the region i do suggest joining the WSA. they are traditionally anarcho-syndicalist but there are also some libertarian communists within them as well.

both organizations are queer friendly.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

The IWW if you're interested in anarchist thought and you're a vegetarian, as they seem to be pretty common in the union. Not everyone in the IWW is an anarchist, but they isn't really a clash of ideals or anything. Usually I just consider them "informally" anarcho-syndicalist. In first two decades of its history, the U.S. I.W.W. usually sent delegates or guests to syndicalist congresses and international meetings, though never becoming a formal member. The IWW is also a dual-card organization if you wish to join them while seeking out another group. If it matters to you, the IWW has on the rise (300% in membership the last 6 years). There are very active groups in areas like Twin Cities, MN and Portland, OR, along with actively growing new branches in the midwest like Omaha/Lincoln, NE and Kansas City, KS/MO.

I've heard good things about W.S.A. as well.
I would recommend WIIU, but they're basically nothing... yet. You may want to get in contact with them and see how they're growth is doing or how you could help set up a local, if there isn't one nearby.

[The Idler]

You might be interested in the journal Aufheben if you're interested in theory.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I guess I'm authoritarian but the ICC and IWW seem cool.

[Forward Union]

A Union

[Queercommie Girl]

Personal advice:

Most socialist organisations in the West today are not explicitly queerphobic, but there isn't a single organisation in which some kind of prejudice doesn't exist. If I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high and expect too much, otherwise you would only end up disappointed by them. There is certainly a lot more to fight for still.

As a trans-girl (the section of the LGBT community that probably get the most amount of prejudices, including among the left), I have encountered certain prejudices from leftist and socialist groups based in the UK, even though I have yet to see any really explicit transphobia.

[SHORAS]

Why is the SPGB being characterised as 'Libertarian'? The same thing I noticed on their facebook page recently. They're not anarchists and as far as I'm aware do not organise within the community so to speak. In fact it has been strongly argued in the past they are rather abstentionist and pacifist. They are also a party hence their name, perhaps an out of date Utopian one at that.

[Queercommie Girl]

Anarchists aren't necessarily more queer-friendly than Trotskyists or even Stalinists and Maoists at all, actually. Many anarchists seem to worship and fetishise "macho power".

[unfriendly]

Anarchists aren't necessarily more queer-friendly than Trotskyists or even Stalinists and Maoists at all, actually. Many anarchists seem to worship and fetishise "macho power".

It depends where you are, in my experience. In the US there's a super-developed anarcho-queer scene all over the country, and if you manage to get in with them you're pretty much set. That said, aside from them anarchists can be every bit as macho and patriarchal as any other leftist.

[Queercommie Girl]

It depends where you are, in my experience. In the US there's a super-developed anarcho-queer scene all over the country, and if you manage to get in with them you're pretty much set. That said, aside from them anarchists can be every bit as macho and patriarchal as any other leftist.

Leninists may also be "macho", but because they are more organised and structured, they can generally be more women and queer-friendly. There was a feminist critique of anarchism stating that due to the relatively unstructured nature of anarchism, in the concrete sense "alpha males" always tend to rise to the top.

Of course, it depends on what kind of women you are as well. One of my friends is a trans-girl who likes taking drugs and labels herself as a "rebel girl". She is generally more attracted to "punky" anarchist guys (even though she has been abused by them before), probably partly because they tend to be better in bed. :P

[Queercommie Girl]

Don't you mean geeky?


Um. I think you will find that there are many macho-type Leninists too. Perhaps it's different kind of "macho-ness" though.

I don't mind "macho-ness" per se, as long as it's not sexist, homophobic or queerphobic.

[nuisance]

yeah, i figured that post was a bit irrelevant/flippant. :p

[unfriendly]

Leninists may also be "macho", but because they are more organised and structured, they can generally be more women and queer-friendly. There was a feminist critique of anarchism stating that due to the relatively unstructured nature of anarchism, in the concrete sense "alpha males" always tend to rise to the top.

This is actually super true in my experience, which probably has a lot to do with the fact that anarcho-queers on this side of the pond kind of go off and do our own thing.

There's this punk squat in Oakland where all the lady-people literally sleep in the attic so they don't have to deal with macho bullshit from the 40-year old manarchists. It'd be funny if it wasn't so blatantly oppressive.

Anyone read Slingshit? Hah! Those guys are assholes.


Of course, it depends on what kind of women you are as well. One of my friends is a trans-girl who likes taking drugs and labels herself as a "rebel girl". She is generally more attracted to "punky" anarchist guys (even though she has been abused by them before), probably partly because they tend to be better in bed. :P

Oh, totes. I know tons of super-liberated anarcho-lady-people who can totally hold their own in such an environment. That said, I am not one of them and spaces like that tend to be not all that great for people who are, y'know, oppressed. As a result you get a lot of "what can we anarchists do to help other people!!".

[The Idler]

Why is the SPGB being characterised as 'Libertarian'? The same thing I noticed on their facebook page recently. They're not anarchists and as far as I'm aware do not organise within the community so to speak. In fact it has been strongly argued in the past they are rather abstentionist and pacifist. They are also a party hence their name, perhaps an out of date Utopian one at that.
The SPGB is characterised as libertarian because they stand for individual freedom of expression and action, and believe that socialism will come about voluntarily not by force.
Like anarchists, they oppose the state and organise non-hierarchically.
Unlike abstentionist anarchists, they get involved in parliamentary elections, communities and trade unions.
The SPGB aren't pacifists as they are prepared to use force in self-defence.
Unlike anarchist organisations, the SPGB openly stand as a non-hierarchical party as a means to organise politically. Dismissing all organisations calling themselves political parties is a bad generalisation.

[Queercommie Girl]

yeah, i figured that post was a bit irrelevant/flippant. :p

Right. Also there is nothing wrong with being "geeky" anyway. ;)

[Black Sheep]

I am a queer, vegetarian left-Marxist with certain sympathies for various forms of left-communist and anarchist thought
The elements in italics are not a part of your political view,and nobody does or should care about them.
Now that would be an ideal case, however you are sadly correct of bringing these up, as some currents, predominantly hardcore stalinists, view homosexuality as a disorder,a result of troubled upbringing, etc.

But the fact you're a vegeterian is indeed too much info, and something noone should care about, in the same sense that i don't define my political philosophy as "i'm an anarchosyndicalist and i like the color pink"

[unfriendly]

The elements in italics are not a part of your political view,and nobody does or should care about them.
Now that would be an ideal case, however you are sadly correct of bringing these up, as some currents, predominantly hardcore stalinists, view homosexuality as a disorder,a result of troubled upbringing, etc.

But the fact you're a vegeterian is indeed too much info, and something noone should care about, in the same sense that i don't define my political philosophy as "i'm an anarchosyndicalist and i like the color pink"

This kind of identity policing is exactly why someone might want to be careful what group they join.

[Queercommie Girl]

The elements in italics are not a part of your political view,and nobody does or should care about them.
Now that would be an ideal case, however you are sadly correct of bringing these up, as some currents, predominantly hardcore stalinists, view homosexuality as a disorder,a result of troubled upbringing, etc.

But the fact you're a vegetarian is indeed too much info, and something noone should care about, in the same sense that i don't define my political philosophy as "i'm an anarchosyndicalist and i like the color pink"

You are right, but in the case of being queer, one must note that the LGBT movement should be a part of any genuine leftist movement, just like feminist movements, ethnic minority movements and national liberation movements are also a part of the socialist movement in general.

So it's not quite the same as saying one is vegetarian or one likes a certain colour. It's true that a genuine leftist group should not discriminate against a queer person negatively based on his/her identity, and in this sense his/her queer identity shouldn't matter. But a genuine leftist group should also actively campaign for queer rights, albeit with a working class focus.

Also, I wouldn't solely blame queerphobia among the left on the "Stalinists". It's true that Stalin himself was queerphobic and reversed the earlier progressive move to legalise homosexuality by Lenin, but contemporary Stalinists aren't necessarily queerphobic. In fact, to be frank, I've seen queerphobic prejudices (not quite explicit queerphobia) among every section of the left: Stalinists, Trotskyists, left communists, social democrats, anarchists. It's certainly not just limited to the Stalinists. The only thing I would say is that in this day and age it is rare for any Trotskyist or anarchist organisation to be openly queerphobic in terms of their official policy, whereas even today some Stalinists might still take such a line.

[unfriendly]

You are right, but in the case of being queer, one must note that the LGBT movement should be a part of any genuine leftist movement, just like feminist movements, ethnic minority movements and national liberation movements are also a part of the socialist movement in general.

So it's not quite the same as saying one is vegetarian or one likes a certain colour. It's true that a genuine leftist group should not discriminate against a queer person negatively based on his/her identity, and in this sense his/her queer identity shouldn't matter. But a genuine leftist group should also actively campaign for queer rights, albeit with a working class focus.

Also, I wouldn't solely blame queerphobia among the left on the "Stalinists". It's true that Stalin himself was queerphobic and reversed the earlier progressive move to legalise homosexuality by Lenin, but contemporary Stalinists aren't necessarily queerphobic. In fact, to be frank, I've seen queerphobic prejudices (not quite explicit queerphobia) among every section of the left: Stalinists, Trotskyists, left communists, social democrats, anarchists. It's certainly not just limited to the Stalinists. The only thing I would say is that in this day and age it is rare for any Trotskyist or anarchist organisation to be openly queerphobic in terms of their official policy, whereas even today some Stalinists might still take such a line.

Doesn't the RCP think that homosexuality is caused by capitalism and will wither away around the same time the state will? Ugh.

[maskerade]

this might be a little bit off topic, but am I the only one that thinks that one actively recreates the dichotomy between normal and abnormal, and thus the prejudice, by stating one's sexuality and making it a part of their politics?

In an ideal society, hopefully the socialist one we want to build, there is no 'homosexual' person, for example, who has to come out of the closet. He or she would just be accepted immediately without any societal hoops to jump through.

I also think that identity politics has hijacked a lot of the left in the west these days, and a lot of parliamentary parties have abandoned class questions entirely as a result. I'm not saying it isn't important, obviously it is. But class encompasses all sexualities.

[unfriendly]

this might be a little bit off topic, but am I the only one that thinks that one actively recreates the dichotomy between normal and abnormal, and thus the prejudice, by stating one's sexuality and making it a part of their politics?

In an ideal society, hopefully the socialist one we want to build, there is no 'homosexual' person, for example, who has to come out of the closet. He or she would just be accepted immediately without any societal hoops to jump through.

I also think that identity politics has hijacked a lot of the left in the west these days, and a lot of parliamentary parties have abandoned class questions entirely as a result. I'm not saying it isn't important, obviously it is. But class encompasses all sexualities.

Only privileged people need it "recreated". I live queer every day of my life and am oppressed because of it, every day of my life. Creating a space with other queer people will NOT re-enforce my oppression, although it might make privileged people more aware of it.

Maybe you don't like, as a privileged person, to be made aware of the ways in which I am oppressed by you, but to me understanding and combatting that oppression is kind of the point.

Also, I reccommend you read Derailing for Dummies. It's a sarcastic guide to things not to say when you're discussing people you have privilege over.

Start here. (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#false)

[Jimmie Higgins]

You are right, but in the case of being queer, one must note that the LGBT movement should be a part of any genuine leftist movement, just like feminist movements, ethnic minority movements and national liberation movements are also a part of the socialist movement in general.

So it's not quite the same as saying one is vegetarian or one likes a certain colour. It's true that a genuine leftist group should not discriminate against a queer person negatively based on his/her identity, and in this sense his/her queer identity shouldn't matter. But a genuine leftist group should also actively campaign for queer rights, albeit with a working class focus.
Yes, actively campaign, activly try and build movements of LGBT and non-LGBT people, and IMO try and build the confidence and leadership of LGBT radicals. It's not enough in my opinion for radical groups to be "oppression-blind" is a society based on so much division and special oppressions and treat people the same. Poor-people, many racial/ethnic minorities, female, and LGBT people in our society are told not to speak up, not to be confident and bold and that their opinions don't matter - this is obviously true of all working class people, but even petty-bourgeois people from oppressed groups are pressured to keep their heads down whereas white male professionals are encouraged to believe the world revolves around them. Many people do build confidence and all that despite the social pressure, but I think it's important that in a non-token way, radicals understand and try and compensate for some of the way people are repressed or oppressed. I mean even now you can go to supermarkets and pick up some "Women's Magazine" and there's probably some article about when hosting a party, how to change the subject when politics come up. Afterall in US society expressing an opinion if you're black means that you're "uppity"; if you're a woman then opinions make you a "*****"; if you're a gay make opinions mean that you are "flamboyant"; and if you are a gay female, then you are "butch" for having an opinion.


this might be a little bit off topic, but am I the only one that thinks that one actively recreates the dichotomy between normal and abnormal, and thus the prejudice, by stating one's sexuality and making it a part of their politics?The dichotomy already exists socially so acknowledging it in order to fight it and ultimately smash it is not re-enforcing it IMO. As far as Identity politics goes - I don't think "having an identity" is really a problem at all, the failing of ID politics in my view is that it often argues that only LGB people can fight homophobia, only Trans folks can fight transphobia, only women can fight sexism etc and that anyone else is part of the problem or benefits from oppression in some way. I think it's a view that weakens the ability of movements to fight back effectively and ignores the way that oppression is part of a system that needs to divide in order to rule (and therefore that we all have a stake in fighting against all these forms of oppression, not just the ones that directly impact us).

[maskerade]

Only privileged people need it "recreated". I live queer every day of my life and am oppressed because of it, every day of my life. Creating a space with other queer people will NOT re-enforce my oppression, although it might make privileged people more aware of it.

Maybe you don't like, as a privileged person, to be made aware of the ways in which I am oppressed by you, but to me understanding and combatting that oppression is kind of the point.

Also, I reccommend you read Derailing for Dummies. It's a sarcastic guide to things not to say when you're discussing people you have privilege over.

Start here. (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#false)

i think you're making a lot of assumptions about me, but sure I get your point.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Maybe you don't like, as a privileged person, to be made aware of the ways in which I am oppressed by you, but to me understanding and combatting that oppression is kind of the point.In what ways is this comrade oppressing you or anyone else?

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

'What Organization should a queer libertarian Marxist join?'
An Organization that has theoretical contributions that he feels will successfully emancipate the Working Class from the currently existing Bourgeois Class Based Society and allow for the Working Class to initiate Proletarian Control.

After joining said Organization, the 'queer libertarian Marxist' should seek to be involved within it and contribute.

Quite honestly though, Proletarian Organizations are not Religious Movements and one should become affiliated and apart of an Organization simply due to their Theoretical Contributions towards the emancipation of the Proletariat, as opposed to simply becoming fetishized over a certain Organization and imagining it similar in effect to a Religious View.

[Queercommie Girl]

Doesn't the RCP think that homosexuality is caused by capitalism and will wither away around the same time the state will? Ugh.

Yes but as I said I wouldn't just pick out Stalinists and Maoists when it comes to queerphobia. There are plenty of Trots and anarchists who are queerphobic too.

If the only reason for one to be anti-Stalinist is because one thinks Stalinism is queerphobic, then frankly that's not a good reason, because queerphobia exists among every section of the left, not just Stalinists. You can't get away from queerphobia just by rejecting Stalinism.

[unfriendly]

In what ways is this comrade oppressing you or anyone else?

A Primer on Privilege (http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/305643.html)
Cis Privilege Checklist (http://takesupspace.wordpress.com/cis-privilege-checklist/)
Binary Gender Privilege Checklist (http://www.whatisgender.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=4073)
Straight Privilege Checklist (http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~hyrax/personal/files/student_res/straightprivilege.htm)

[Black Sheep]

Also, I wouldn't solely blame queerphobia among the left on the "Stalinists". It's true that Stalin himself was queerphobic and reversed the earlier progressive move to legalise homosexuality by Lenin, but contemporary Stalinists aren't necessarily queerphobic. In fact, to be frank, I've seen queerphobic prejudices (not quite explicit queerphobia) among every section of the left: Stalinists, Trotskyists, left communists, social democrats, anarchists. It's certainly not just limited to the Stalinists. The only thing I would say is that in this day and age it is rare for any Trotskyist or anarchist organisation to be openly queerphobic in terms of their official policy, whereas even today some Stalinists might still take such a line.

Well the stalinists here do think so - i suspect it's a product of some DM mumbo-jimbo.

[Queercommie Girl]

Well the stalinists here do think so - i suspect it's a product of some DM mumbo-jimbo.

Are you saying the Stalinists on RevLeft are generally queerphobic? I think there are many Stalinists here who are not queerphobic, actually.

[Jimmie Higgins]

A Primer on Privilege (http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/305643.html)
Cis Privilege Checklist (http://takesupspace.wordpress.com/cis-privilege-checklist/)
Binary Gender Privilege Checklist (http://www.whatisgender.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=4073)
Straight Privilege Checklist (http://www.cs.earlham.edu/%7Ehyrax/personal/files/student_res/straightprivilege.htm)Sorry, can you respond directly. I don't think that privilege theory is viable or useful for radicals; I think it looks at oppression upside-down as if the problem with racial profiling is not anti-black/latino racism and oppression, but that the cops aren't also pulling over white kids for no reason on a routine basis. Personally, I think this trendy concept is only useful for academics who have no desire to actually try and locate the source of oppression and smash it, rather they want to analyze it and get published. The "solution" for oppression given by most privilage theorists is for the non-oppressed to "recognize their oppression"... fantastic, academics have figured out a way to talk about things like anti-black racism but make it all about white people thinking about themselves.

But for the case here, to say that another comrade who I assume is active in struggles and a potential fighter for sexual liberation is the cause of oppression is divisive and, frankly, counter-productive to ending oppression.

Straight people aren't "privilaged" - other people are OPPRESSED, but the ruling class has no interest in helping out straight workers even if they don't target them for their sexuality. In fact how privileged is some woman who is raised mormon and forced into ridged gender roles - how privileged are inter-racial couples? How privileged is a straight white male who can't show emotion or affection and can't even like musicals without fear of sexist or homophobic attacks? Is that politician Weiner "privilaged" for being forced into a monogamous relationships that it seems he doesn't actually want to be in?

I'm not saying that the pressure felt by straight white men to conform is as bad as the direct oppression faced by women or LGBT-identified people, but it's part of the same bigger picture of how oppression works in class society. White people are not the source of black oppression, straight people are not the source of LGBT oppression even if they can individually accept or even promote that oppression. The source of these oppressions in our society is the ruling class which needs to keep people powerless and defensive in order to push people around and also needs to keep people divided so we can not easily overthrow them. So they create laws to make gay people scared to be open for fear of loosing their jobs and, specifically in the US after WWII, to push women back out of the workforce (suddenly Rosie the Riveter is too butch!) or laws to keep white and black servants segregated in the pre-civil war days and laws against inter-racial marriage in the post civil-war days.

Ending oppression won't come from people "giving up privilege" or doing some high-math and figuring out how privileged or unprivileged we are, it will be from building large united struggles based on solidarity so that we can all be "privilaged" and not have to worry that showing affection or not fitting prescribed gender or sexual roles will cost us a job or make us outcasts or targets of violence.

[unfriendly]

Oh, figures you're from frikking Oakland.


Sorry, can you respond directly.

Derailing for Dummies: If You Won't Educate Me, How Will I Learn? (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#educate)


Personally, I think this trendy concept is only useful for academics who have no desire to actually try and locate the source of oppression and smash it, rather they want to analyze it and get published.

You're Being Overly Intellectual (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#intellectual)


But for the case here, to say that another comrade who I assume is active in struggles and a potential fighter for sexual liberation is the cause of oppression is divisive and, frankly, counter-productive to ending oppression.

You're Not Being a Team Player (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#team)

Maybe try to have an actual analysis of what you're talking about in the future, so as to avoid making an ass of yourself?

Now, since you like direct replies:

Tough. I'm not going to baby you and hold your greusomely overprivileged, presumably straight hand and explain concepts that have already been explained in this thread. You can read and if you had any interest in learning you would have already done so. I'm typing this post only so that people actually interested in learning, not from some Trotsky reading group like the ISO but from actual living breathing people, can do so.


I think it looks at oppression upside-down as if the problem with racial profiling is not anti-black/latino racism and oppression, but that the cops aren't also pulling over white kids for no reason on a routine basis.

I've never heard a marginalized person say this, although maybe if privileged people were forced to live like the rest of us, privileged people would start to give a shit and something would be done.


But for the case here, to say that another comrade who I assume is active in struggles and a potential fighter for sexual liberation is the cause of oppression is divisive and, frankly, counter-productive to ending oppression.

Thanks for straightsplaining my oppression to me, but no, I'm pretty sure that the cause of oppression is an oppressive society of which you are a part. Your bullshit is so trite, repetitive, and oppressive that it was lampooned in this thread before you even said it.

You've demonstrated that you're not willing to read a few short pages in order to maybe gain some understanding of your privilege, and therefore my oppression. That is oppressive. You are oppressive. You are oppressing me RIGHT NOW by making ignorant statements like that we're all academics who just want to analyze things instead of addressing them because being oppressed is just oh-so-much fun.

That is because of your privilege. You are only even capable of thinking something so intensely asinine because your privilege blinds you to oppression. Privilege makes you ignorant. It's not something to be proud of and it isn't something that you should seek to expand.

Being "active in struggles" does not make you any less privileged or oppressive. It does not change the fact that you are favored in patriarchal society, which you reinforce by your own actions, and why wouldn't you, since you seem to see all opposition thereto as an "upside down approach" that seeks to oppress you? Apparently it's oppress or be oppressed. You can't even conceive of an equitable relationship between me and you!

Being a potential fighter in the fight for sexual liberation is wonderful. If someone is genuinely interested in that they will listen to those who are sexually oppressed. When it comes to privilege I know what I am talking about and you do not. Your privileged ass probably doesn't like hearing that but I hear it all the time. I'm hearing it from you right now.


Straight people aren't "privilaged" - other people are OPPRESSED, but the ruling class has no interest in helping out straight workers even if they don't target them for their sexuality. In fact how privileged is some woman who is raised mormon and forced into ridged gender roles - how privileged are inter-racial couples? How privileged is a straight white male who can't show emotion or affection and can't even like musicals without fear of sexist or homophobic attacks? Is that politician Weiner "privilaged" for being forced into a monogamous relationships that it seems he doesn't actually want to be in?

"How privileged is a straight white male"? Privileged enough to ask that damn question.

You might be interested in intersectionality. Most of that paragraph has nothing to do with intersectionality and is just offensive, but that's the closest I can come to formulating a reply. My time is valuable despite what you would have me believe, so I suggest you google it and figure it out.


The source of these oppressions in our society is the ruling class which needs to keep people powerless and defensive in order to push people around and also needs to keep people divided so we can not easily overthrow them.

Way to point that finger elsewhere. Sure we've all heard the story about how race was invented to divide the slaves from the indentured servants. Sure. But guess who bought into it hook, line, and sinker? White people. Who came there to take over other peoples' land in the first damn place? White people. Guess who suffered? Not white people.

Own up to your own damn privilege. I've posted links here about the privileges that you enjoy, that were granted to you by the ruling class that you like to blame for your own actions. read them.

You are privileged. You are privileged. YOU are PRIVILEGED.


Ending oppression won't come from people "giving up privilege" or doing some high-math and figuring out how privileged or unprivileged we are, it will be from building large united struggles based on solidarity so that we can all be "privilaged" and not have to worry that showing affection or not fitting prescribed gender or sexual roles will cost us a job or make us outcasts or targets of violence.

Apparently, you intend to start this large united struggle based on solidarity by marginalizing, ignoring, and saying asinine things to people who explain to you how you are oppressing them.

Have fun with that.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Oh, figures you're from frikking Oakland.What is that supposed to mean?

You obviously can't defend this "privilege theory" or your claim that another activist is an active participant in sexual oppression, so instead of a response to my questions and counter-arguments, I get a half-a-dozen claims that my very question are oppressing you and/or I am too dumb to understand. It's the same anti-debate tactic that Zionists use if you criticize Israeli policy, anything is denounced as anti-semetic as if the Israeli governmnet is synonymous with all Jewish people. Here you try and make this privilage theory - a recent fad in academics and increasingly in activist circles - as speaking for all oppressed people and any debate about the theory means that it's "privilege"! Well not all oppressed people subscribe to this view of where oppression comes from and how it is maintained, and secondly, any theory in which any objection or criticism only "proves" the theory is more like religion than politics.

If you don't want to debate or have anyone challenge your ideas, why are you on this website. If you think oppression comes from working class people, why are you on a revolutionary website?

[Yazman]

User Unfriendly:

Your username might be "unfriendly" but that doesn't give you license to be a condescending ass in your posts. Knock it off. I'm letting you off without a warning, but you need to tone it down a notch or two.

[Ilyich]

I am a libertarian Marxist and a member of Solidarity myself.