If a Fully Socialist Colony Was Founded

[Red Flag]

Hypathetical.. If a group of socialists founded a colony, and set up a self governing system, would you move to it?

Lets say it was on a small island in the bahamas, 25 miles by 25 miles.

Politics (All Elections Compulsatory, Except those noted):

A Representative would be voted in by elections. His/Her responsability is to honor the will of the people in all decissions, and to execute the will of the people, including overseeing Military Action. He/She could appoint two assitants.

2 Clerks Of Court would be voted in by election. Their responsability was to hold court over accused crimes. They could appoint one assistant each. All facts and evidence in ALL cases will be published in the news paper.

Jurys would be made up on a FULL rotation of 10 residents over the age of 18. Records would be kept by the Clerk of Courts and their appointed assistants to insure that ALL people over 18 had served as a juror before any one person would serve twice. (Sort of like a bating line up in baseball). Jury's would also decide sentencing.

If 25% of the population signs a petition appealing the ruling of a Jury, an immediate non-compulsatory election would be held to find if the will of the people is a re-trial.

Two Clerks of Journalism would be voted in by election. Their responsability would be to edit and over see the Official Public News Paper. In all Elections Campaigning would be prohibited! It would be the responsibility of the Clerks to publish canidates of EVERY elections stance on the issues before elections, with no bias. ALL spending, proposals, changes in law, national census and studies, court findings, and impendening election facts would also be published.

Police would be voted in at the rate of 1 Police Per 25 People, to enforce the law of the people. If at any time a policeman is accused of any form of abuse of power, an immediate trial would be held for a finding.

A Clerk Of Police would be voted in to over see that the will of the people is being enforced by the police force.

Foriegn Minister would be voted in to represent the colony to other nations, and bring external issues to the people for vote.

ALL LAWS AND ISSUES would be voted for by the people. To file for a new law or change of law, a petition signed by 25% of the population would be presented to the Represenative, who would arange an immediate vote. VOTES OF LAW WOULD NOT BE COMPULSATORY.

Military Service would be required by all able Citizens ONLY in defense of the colony, in any case were it is threatened by an outside enemy. Any foriegn Military action VOTED IN BY THE PEOPLE would be acted out by VOLUNTEERS ONLY.

A vote on Military Action may be brought about by the Representative, Foriegn Minister, or a petition signed by 25% of the population.

An elected Clerk Of Economics will recommend a minimum and maximum pay for all occupations, which will be presented in the Public News Paper then voted on in a non-compulsatory election by the people. If 25% of the populations signs a petition to change the maximum and minimum wage of a particular job, an immediate non-compulsatory election will be held in which the people choose if the current wage should stay, or if the wage recomended by the petition shall prevail. * WAGE MAXIMUMS AND MINUMUM DO NOT APPLY TO WORKER OWNED PRODUCTION

A Clerk Of Health would be elected to over see the hospital and to keep it operating efficently.

A Clerk of Prison would be elected to over see that the prison is humane and more Rehabilative than Punishing.

A Clerk of Production would oversee all public services to make sure they opperated efficiently, and cut down waste. All proposals from the clerk of production would be brought to non compulsatory election.

A Clerk Of Education, Clerk Of Public Safety, Clerk of the Treasury, and Auditor would also be elected to handle their obvious roles.

A Clerk of Agriculture would be elected to oversee the efficiency of public farm land.

6 Clerks of Election would be voted in to count votes (IN PUBLIC) on all elections, and to oversee the fairness of all elections.

A Clerk of Communication would over see the Public Mail and Phone Systems.

6 Clerks of Labor would be elected to oversee that Unions and Business operate in a just and fair manor. They would also be arbitrators in Union vs. Business disputes.

Clerk of Information would over see public librarys..

ANY TIME an elected official proposes a need for funds, his proposal shall be published in the News Paper and brought to a compulsatory vote of the people.

OFFICIAL ELECTIONS for all offices would be held every 6 months. Citizens would vote on all offices and decide if the current officer is doing a good job, or if they should be replaced. At any time between the six month period, a petition signed by 25% of the population is brought to the Representative for recall of any officer, he would hold an immediate election, Voting in this case WOULD NOT BE Compulsatory.

EMMIGRATION and IMMIGRATION are free and unregulated. Immigration could be changed to 'by approval of foriegn minister only' if the Current Population votes that the colony is currently overcrowded and under produced, or in times of conflict. This would occur when 25% of the population signed a petition and then the issue was brought to a compulsatory vote. EMMIGRATION would NEVER be prohibited.

Public Officials are free to assemble their own staff.

Private Practice of Religion is completely free.

Speech is completely free. As well as the freedom of Independent Press, which would not be overseen by the Clerk of Journalism, except in cases of Mis-information being printed, in which case the indy press would be required to back up there statments with factual evidence or retract their false statments.

Freedom to assemble, protest, and bare arms.


Economy:

Limited Profit Gain: A maximum of 100% profit can be charged over the cost of any item sold. (ie. a shirt costs $5, the maximum it can be sold for is $10.00). The elected Auditor would be responsable to oversee this.

Sales Tax: 50% on all products. Sales tax on ALL things sold in the colony go to social services.

Income Tax: 50% of all income. (But don't forget that Health Care, Education, Housing, and School is free)

ALL SPENDING must be approved by the people in non-compulsatory election.


Distribution of Food and Housing:

Public Farmland will be used to grow crops and raise animals for food. Each citizen will be aloted a certain number of food credits per their height, weight, and age, as recomended by the Clerk of Health, and voted in by the people. PUBLIC FOOD from these farmlands will be distributed according to food credits, for FREE.

You can ALSO PURCHASE food from indepenent food producers with your own money, in addition to the food aloted to you.

Public Housing: Will be constructed, as spending is approved by people. Any person or family not having a house will be immediatley placed into a public housing unit as space would allow.

Shelters: would exsist in enough abundance that no citizen would ever be without a place to stay.

PUBLIC LAND: Would be established for those that wish to Immigrate to the colony, and would be divided into Plots. Anyone is allowed to establish a NON PERMANENT DWELLING in Public Land, as long as they do not encroach on a previously established Plot. A person may use more than one plot if they are not being used, but if a land shortage occurs per number of immigrants, a current settler must use only one plot. No one may claim Public Land as their own, and a vote of the people can remove any person from public land at any time.


Social Services (Payed For By Tax Money, through Publicly approved spending bills):

Free Education, with required attendance, for children ages 5 - 17. *At the age of 15 a student may choose not to attend further schooling.

Free Collegiate Education at the public university, for those that completed full schooling.

Free Skill/Trade Education at the public technical institute for anyone intrested, including those that wish to change their trade.

** Independent Schools, Univeristies, Hosptials, and Medical Practices, can be established, but are subject to the will of the people, as enforced through their respective Public Official and Staff.

Free Preventative and Curritive Healthcare at the public hospital.

Free Communication No Charge for In-Colony Mailing and Phone. [I]* Mail and Phone to outside the colony would be handled by independent companies, and would be subject to their fees.

Free (or VERY inexpensive) Public Transportation as funding would allow.

The PUBLIC LIBRARY would contain at least 1 copy of any published book attainable, for every 300 citizens. This would be regulated by the Clerk of Information.

-----------------

So would you live in this colony?

[Red Flag]

no replys?

[Nobody]

It seems to me you decribed Canada! :D

[Red Flag]

LOL i think maybee you are giving canada a little more credit than is due

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

:D i like it, i will be the fist to movie in

[Red Flag]

Word.. i think our best bet at freedom is establishing our own colony.. it wouldnt be as hard as you may think either..

[apathy maybe]

I read and I marvelled. Not wanting to denigrate what you have done but some of what you have is too complex. Also it seems remarkably similar to some other countries. You have a limited capitalist system.


Politics (All Elections Compulsatory, Except those noted):
.
.
.
Military Service would be required by all able Citizens ONLY in defense of the colony, in any case were it is threatened by an outside enemy. Any foriegn Military action VOTED IN BY THE PEOPLE would be acted out by VOLUNTEERS ONLY.

A vote on Military Action may be brought about by the Representative, Foriegn Minister, or a petition signed by 25% of the population.
.
.
.
OFFICIAL ELECTIONS for all offices would be held every 6 months. Citizens would vote on all offices and decide if the current officer is doing a good job, or if they should be replaced. At any time between the six month period, a petition signed by 25% of the population is brought to the Representative for recall of any officer, he would hold an immediate election, Voting in this case WOULD NOT BE Compulsatory.

EMMIGRATION and IMMIGRATION are free and unregulated. Immigration could be changed to 'by approval of foriegn minister only' if the Current Population votes that the colony is currently overcrowded and under produced, or in times of conflict. This would occur when 25% of the population signed a petition and then the issue was brought to a compulsatory vote. EMMIGRATION would NEVER be prohibited.

Public Officials are free to assemble their own staff.

Private Practice of Religion is completely free.

Speech is completely free. As well as the freedom of Independent Press, which would not be overseen by the Clerk of Journalism, except in cases of Mis-information being printed, in which case the indy press would be required to back up there statments with factual evidence or retract their false statments.

Freedom to assemble, protest, and bare arms.

The military action seems slightly bad.

Official elections every 6 months is too short. But I agree with the petition idea. If someone doesn't like how their representative is doing they should have the right to recall them. Plus voting should be compulsory in the case of an petition election.
Emigration should be free and un-prohibited except in the cases of crime.
Immigration should not be unrestricted as we are living on an island, but skilled workers and refugees (real ones) can come.

Public officials are free to assemble own staff, well I suppose.
Freedom of speech and belief is a great idea (though others would disagree). But one person/company should not be able to own/control more then one form of media or more then two types of the same media in one area.
I think I disagree with the mis-information.



Economy:

Limited Profit Gain: A maximum of 100% profit can be charged over the cost of any item sold. (ie. a shirt costs $5, the maximum it can be sold for is $10.00). The elected Auditor would be responsable to oversee this.

Sales Tax: 50% on all products. Sales tax on ALL things sold in the colony go to social services.

Income Tax: 50% of all income. (But don't forget that Health Care, Education, Housing, and School is free)

ALL SPENDING must be approved by the people in non-compulsatory election.

Limited profit gains sounds good, but I am sure there could be some work a rounds, (such as selling to someone, they sell it back, you sell to them, etc).
Sales taxes are bad as they enable the rich to have greater buying power then the poor.
Income tax needs to be scaled so that those who earn little pay no tax.
Health Care, Education, etc should be free. I agree.
All spending must be approved?



Distribution of Food and Housing:

Are we having any environmental areas? Or are we going to be old left. Humans rule through divine right?



Social Services

free public services is a great idea.
The library would have electronic copies surly.
As well as free internet access.

That is my response to yours. Now what about the environment. A fully socialist country there is no money as people work for the govt. free everything because you have to work for it. Expiring money perhaps if we must have it at all.

[Red Flag]

Good Points..

- So what do you think about the military then? If we are invaded by imperialists and no one wants to defend our colony, what would we do? just give the land away?

- Immigration would be free until the colony became in danger of over population, then immigration by aproval would take place (meaning only refugees and skilled tradesmen could enter)

- What do you think is a better time for Public Official Elections? 1 year? 4 years? or should a public official just stay in place until he is recalled or resigns?

- Monoplys and Corporations would be strictly prohibited in ANY field.

- So you think No sales tax would be better? And the people with less money (I dont think class seperations would be major) woulnt have to pay income tax either.. than how would social services be payed for?

- If you eliminate money, then how is value assesed, to get things like food, books, extra conviencies, etc.?

- You feel Independent press should be unregulated and free to present false information?

- Industrial production would be almost non exsitant, obviously, on our small island. Agriculuture would most likely be our main source of production.

- Polution would be STRICTLY controlled and monitered by a Clerk of Environment, which I forgot to list.

- Free E Books and Internet Access in the Library FOR CERTAIN! as well as access to ALL public documents.

- The Environment would be held in the Highest Accord.

[Red Flag]

Also, electricity and clean running water would have to be free as well.

[RyeN]

I realy dont like the idea of the elected peoples being able to appint thier own assistant. One should be provided by the state. Sounds inicing but Ill only leave Canada if you allow me to grow and distrubute Marijuana for medicinal and recreational purposes. Depending of course on the will of the people to want it right? Cmon southern tropical socialist island with the worlds best smoke.

[Red Flag]

The thing about that is, Its not that big of a deal because You Have the ability to recall.

And the official cannot ennact any laws without approval of the people, he/she can only propose them.

It would allow Officials a chance to hire a staff they felt comfortable with, and could manage efficiently.


Take this is in all seriousness though, and give your true thought on this, as aquiring an Island Would Not be that hard, and IS feasable..

[RyeN]

Good call, I think it could be posible as well and would like too see it done. I just dont think there can be people in charge apointing just anyone. Nepatism has no place in the socialist command chain. I agree that the elected official should be able to choose from a group of qualifed candidates then. Depending on the size of the Island and the population we will need a multimedia network avaliable to all the peoples, in order to make voting on everything feasible. You would also need clerks for many other things. A council that would oversea the satisfaction of all the people on every issue.

Vote RyeN to be the Clerk of Recreation. With our new society running smoothly people will only have to work a few hours a day. We will need some good activities that promote felowship and uninity while having a good time. Im sure that I can think of plety of holsome activities to do on a tropical Island.

[Red Flag]

Marijuana would be completely legal, unless the people supported a vote against it.

[Red Flag]

Thats another thing, if the people bring a petition signed by 25% of people to create a new public office, or dismantle an existing one, that would also be brought to a vote..

As far a overseeing that the will of the people is enforced, that resposibility is taken by the Representative.

- Now on voting, which would be more effiencient? Centralized Voting, or Voting from home by some sort of communication line, like a Secure Network.

[Red Flag]

Another Point:

- If you have no job or skill, you learn a trade.. if you refuse to learn a trade or are already learned in a trade and just decide you dont want to work or get an education, you're deamed a non participating member of society, and are cut from social services (except Library).

[Sasafrás]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 7 2003, 12:31 AM
Another Point:

- If you have no job or skill, you learn a trade.. if you refuse to learn a trade or are already learned in a trade and just decide you dont want to work or get an education, you're deamed a non participating member of society, and are cut from social services (except Library).
I like that. I have a big problem with people not appreciating the value of hard work. I feel: If you don't work and you are capable, then you don't deserve aid.

[RyeN]

As the clerk for Recreation I would accept those few individuals who didnt deem work an appropriate activity. Im sure I could have them run for their shifts in organized charity events. Every peson has some usefuleness, you just need to tap into it.

[Red Flag]

^ i fully agree with this, thats why i say everyone has a chance to participate in society before social services are cut.

[ElRuso1967]

You didn't seem to mention anything about a workers militia, would these have a place in the new socialist state?

[crazy comie]

shouldn't there be no private bussnesses and evry thing should belong to all the pepole and the pepole should control the means of prouduction

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I haven't read it fully, but why should there be jury's in courts?

Jury's often don't know the law well, are easy influenced and are ineffective.

The Dutch system is better. One judge for small crimes (for punishes up to 6 months) and 3 judges for heavier crimes and for the really big ones there are 5 judges.

[Red Flag]

because the only fair way to prossecute someone is through a diverse jury, One man alone cannot be balanced.

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

I personally think it's wiser to help agitate revolution in our own country amongst the masses rather than run away to start "colonies" or whatnot. Don't you think that's the more revolutionary thing to do?

[Red Flag]

Revolutionary? maybee.. feasable? most likely not..

Im not particularly stuck in a 'must have violent revolution' mode.. i look for freedom justice and equality.. how ever it may be achieved.. not that im anti revolution, because im not at all.. but i dont see it happeneing in my lifetime, to an effictivness..

if we started a fully operating, peaceful socialist state, we'd set an example that socialism does work, and is the right goal.. and more people would see, worldwide that they need to revolt against capitalism..

[suffianr]

Sounds great on paper, but my only misgiving would be that such endeavours might end up like The Lord of the Flies. Even if it were realised, sooner or later, it might perhaps turn out to be a case of Us Vs. Them(Them being the rest of the world).

The concept of a colony is, I supposed, a good idea; in that it would be a veritable proving ground for socialist ideals. We could build a "model" society, but then again, model societies are almost always nothing but that; a conceptualisation that may or may not bear the weight of the diverse social and psychological dynamics that encompasses the rest of humanity.

What I'm asking is, can ideas evolve in isolation?

[Red Flag]

I only know of one way to find out..

If you confidently believe in socialism and that it works, and your not just some kid that likes to wear cccp sweat suits, you should have no doubts that this new community would work.

[crazy comie]

phearhaps we should have a colony based on utopian socialist rules to for a few years just to demonstrate communism can work.

[Red Flag]

I don't think you could straight into a Marxist society when your new colony is made up of refugees from capitalist countries, but i may be wrong.

[crazy comie]

sorry. i edited it.
I'm a marxist but a colony like this would be utopian socialism.

[Red Flag]

lets get cracking :D

[suffianr]

If you confidently believe in socialism and that it works, and your not just some kid that likes to wear cccp sweat suits, you should have no doubts that this new community would work.

I don't wear CCCP sweat suits.

The problem is, when something becomes self-contained, it becomes self-centered. Everything becomes insular, people get into their comfort-zones and after a while people get complacent because everything is working out the way they want it to and to thell with the rest of the world.

Have you not read Animal Farm?

'Not that I intend to draw parallels with Orwellian concepts of society, but the problem is, self-contained societies do not last. Or at least, do not evolve or develop in the same way or on the same wavelength as the rest of the world. They carve their own niche and stay in it. And eventually nail their own coffins.

[crazy comie]

I said this could be put into practise for a few years.
It depends on how big a society.

[Red Flag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2003, 12:25 AM
The problem is, when something becomes self-contained, it becomes self-centered. Everything becomes insular, people get into their comfort-zones and after a while people get complacent because everything is working out the way they want it to and to thell with the rest of the world.
Whats So wrong with that? If everything is working out?

[RyeN]

Yo where can I get me a CCCP sweat suit thats a phenominal idea

[crazy comie]

i would liike to know that to

[Red Flag]

Teddy KGB had one on in the Movie ''Rounders'' :D

[crazy comie]

okay.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

We would have to be a self sufficient colony, everything should be free and money not exist.

Count me in, you can buy islands cant you, if you all put our money together, maybe??

[Red Flag]

that's exactly what I'm saying. Instead of saving money for a house or automobile etc etc, we would all put in to purchase an island.. there are thousands of small islands in the tropics, and i'm very sure you could purchase one.

[RyeN]

Talking about it is wonderful but action is required. You my commrade need to start an organization. Come up with a good name and write down a realistic buisness proposal. First thing you need to do is research. There are thousands of Islands in the tropics for sale right. Find wich one is the most cost effective. This will be determined by the size and natural resources avaliable. Once you have an Island you must come up with a plan for how many people you will need to sustain a civalization capable of supporting what you sugest.

Do the math and figure out how many people you will want on the island. Then take the cost of the island and the materials needed to create our new world. That figure will determine how much we need to start. Then you have to write out proposals on what jobs everyone will do. At first there will be extensive building required. How many people can build up our world while the rest toil to produce food and clothing for everyone. Starting from scratch is an expensive endevor commrade.

You make the organization and do the math. When you have a proposal that sounds good Ill be the first person out there singing up new comrades to come join us.

[crazy comie]

The island could also have a small bussnes to provide money fo medicene etc.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Ther are 5683 registered members on Che-lives, if each member donated 10 pound to the project, thats 56830 pound, its not much when talking about buying an island but its a start, just one of many ways to raise the cash, I personally am very interested in this, a working communist utopia, it will work.

Others interested and want to talk feel free to MSN ICQ PM E-mail me.

[marxstudent]

In a socialist government, would anyone have the freedom to practice his own religion?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

well as a marxist i would say no religion on the island what-so-ever. Out right ban it.

[Lardlad95]

No, and here is why. America is my home, and while I would love to live in other nations I'd preffer to stay here an try to help my home grow towards socialism. I can't give up on the good Ole US of A

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 06:50 PM
well as a marxist i would say no religion on the island what-so-ever. Out right ban it.
this is the second reason I wouldn't go.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

It sounds to me LardLad that you are too patriotic

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 06:56 PM
It sounds to me LardLad that you are too patriotic
please don't put me in the George Bush Donald Rumsfeld Fourteen Flag waving category ok?


The fact of the matter is, this is my home. This country has given me alot, and while it's incredibly evil. The people here are genuinely good, albiet a bit misinformed. Because of this country I've gotten to learn things some people will never know.

Now this doesn't mean that I'm a Red white and Blue asshole, I'm just as against US imperialism as the rest of you.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

fair enough LL

lets get backon track with the Commie Island

[Sasafrás]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 02:14 PM
lets get backon track with the Commie Island
It's not a Commie Island... It's Socialist.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

hay shay,why you not on MSN?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I found this website: Private Islands for sale (http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/home_e.html)


you can buy private islands, not as expensive as i thought

[crazy comie]

cool lets get saving

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Yes crazy commie allus dedicated commies/socialists need to, united we can do it

[Red Flag]

labelling the island i think is a step in the wrong direction.. let the people rule, and call it a people's land, as the economy evolves it will classify itself..

also a tenate of establishment has to be freedom.. which includes free religion, just in private practice..

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Anyone who is SERIOUS about this PM me or red flag

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I think this topic should be moved to "practice" as it will happen

[Kez]

this is THE SINGLE most stupid and ill-thought out idea i have ever read about

[Scottish_Militant]

For fucks sake man get real!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[marxstudent]

also a tenate of establishment has to be freedom.. which includes free religion, just in private practice..


I like the idea of that. Sounds very fair.

I believe this can happen it'll just take time- just like how all the other nations were formed.

[suffianr]

Whats So wrong with that? If everything is working out?

OK, you still don't get it, do you, comrade?

Perfect societies do not exist. The very definition of "everything working out" implies a state of equillibiurm that is above that of "normal" society. Nothing ever works out the way you want it to. Hence the Chaos Theory.

Even if it were to work out, how could you "grow" within a self-enclosed society? It would become a colony of clones. We would all live together in an enclave of like-minded people who won't mind the sense of overwhelming stagnancy that descends upon us after we've successfully done our jobs.

What's left to accomplish in life once you've single-handedly (in the plural sense, of course) established a free state that runs according to your own rules and on your own time.

Why not just set up a network and populate it with individual AI personalities and let "nature" run it's course? Like in the Matrix.

How would the revolution spread? Who would take you seriously? And what makes you think that it won't become like that other place that people in Europe once ran off to in order escape the privations of religious persecution and an unjust monarchy?

They set up their own place, and look what's happened to it now.

Well, that's just my opinion, comrade. Try it if you must. I'll be watching.

[synthesis]

Heh. When I was about 15, what I really wanted to do was win the lottery, buy an island, adopt as many children from China, Mexico, South America, Eastern Europe, and Africa as I could, and then raise them into a guerrilla army on that island and use it to take over small Third World countries in the name of Communism.

Hey, it's still possible, isn't it? :D

Regardless, I doubt you could find an island that could support an entire community of people for less than $20 million. That's not counting all the housing, etc.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

we would be an example to other nations of how you can live without capitalism, there is room to "grow"
but you just keep watch then, we will do it and it will work, when it is all acomplished I hope those who doubted us will be proud that we made a self suficiant "true" socialist country

[ComradeRobertRiley]

i believe we could dyermaker, the island itself would be about 1 million dollers

[Red Flag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 12:28 AM
i believe we could dyermaker, the island itself would be about 1 million dollers
Exactly, we have priced some... most of the better islands for what we wish to do fall inbetween 1 - 1.75 million dollars

1.5 Million / 110 people = $13,600 (From Each Person) For the land itself.. which is about the price of a Mobile Home in America right now...

[Scottish_Militant]

Ok guys, we non beleivers will sit back and watch whilst you go and buy an island and build socialism :lol:

[suffianr]

we would be an example to other nations of how you can live without capitalism, there is room to "grow"

Look at East Timor. Or any of the countless islands within the Malay Archipelago. How long do you think the capitalist governments would wait before declaring war on you just out of spite? Just to prove that you can't make it without them! How long before the IMF and currency speculators and international "relief" agencies come swooping down from the skies like vultures spoiling for easy pickings? How long before the West declares your country's politics "illegal" and send in peacekeepers by the truck load to plunder your hoards of natural resources?

During the middle ages, and well into the Renaissance, "For Christ and Spices!" was the rallying cry of Christiandom's vulgar expeditions into the uncharted regions of the world.

Now it's "For Oil and Money!".

[ComradeRobertRiley]

we will have the capability to defend our selves, I think you are wrong I dont think others will bother us, I think they will just leave us alone but if the dont well we will fight them off like Cuba V USA

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 02:14 PM
we will have the capability to defend our selves, I think you are wrong I dont think others will bother us, I think they will just leave us alone but if the dont well we will fight them off like Cuba V USA
Big problem.....Cuba had a good military, with fairly good weapons. How do you plan to aquire such things?

[crazy comie]

we ask a t.v company like itv to show it like a reality t.v program and pay for it all and film us so the capitalists wouldn't be hostile evry one gets to see it work and once we have proved are point we leave and go back to are normal lives.
An induvidual t.v company like itv wouldn't care if they were soing the seeds of revoulotion ad long as they got short term profits.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Dear Mr. Riley,

Thank you very much for your email.

Please note that even though our islands are freehold, the owners are always subject to the laws of the country of which the island is a part. There are no "sovereign" islands for sale.

Best regards,

S. Saracbasi
VLADI PRIVATE ISLANDS GmbH

[ComradeRobertRiley]

We could write to the country that the island is a part of and ask what it would take for idependence

[Scottish_Militant]

LOL!!! Please, please stop it!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ComradeRobertRiley]

If you dont have anything worth while posting then why bother posting?

[Red Flag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 07:14 PM
If you dont have anything worth while posting then why bother posting?
exactly!

[Scottish_Militant]

Well it is pretty amusing, sorry comrades :D

[crazy comie]

i dout the country would bother controling ar actiond if we owend the land un less we killed someone.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

true you crazy commie, :D however I do strongly beleive we will be able to gain independance, so it will be irrelevent

[crazy comie]

the point is that if this happend we would only need to show socialism could work then leave and use this to inspire many communists evry where becuse pepole would know it could work.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

we couldnt just abandon it, it would be where people lived in true freedom, people wouldnt want to leave, it would be their home

[crazy comie]

then pepole could carry on living there and begin to save up for bying the island.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

we would already own the island

[crazy comie]

okay then

[Goldfinger]

Lardlad and I have been discussing this matter before, and we agreed that I would do the architecture. Can I do the architecture?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Im ok with that comrade, but we all have to agree, so ask red flag and marxstudent as well

[Scottish_Militant]

Can I be the pornstar? :D

[marxstudent]

Ok, and I'll be the director. ;)

No but seriously all nations took years before finally getting things running smoothly. I think there's a chance this plan can be done.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

it can definately be done, its just a matter of time and commitment

[Scottish_Militant]

can i be the king.....

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 02:04 PM
can i be the king.....
omly if you want to entertain us by chopping your head off

[Scottish_Militant]

Chop away comrade, it's your island ;)

[Red Flag]

this cat is a real conterproductive fuck

[ComradeRobertRiley]

well said, he should be banned for it

[Scottish_Militant]

<_<

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 07:59 PM
Can I be the pornstar? :D
I want to be the porn star&#33; That is of course, if majority rules it so. I have all kinds of skills, 9Hey I can double as manfesto writer as well.) but never have they been put on film. Anyone got a problem with that? lol


Sign me up&#33; I&#39;m there&#33; Our only problem will be Bush trying to come in a ruin it for everyone&#33;

[Red Flag]

PM me or Comrade Rob if your serious

[ComradeRobertRiley]

It would be great to have you on the island, I dont mean have you have you but ya now just more people the better LOL.

P.S. comrades "involved" read this needs talking about:
I see three options so for which are as follows:


Option 1: Buy an island; try to peacefully declare sovereignty if that fails fight for a revolution.

Option 2: Go to one of the deserted islands (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-B/peo_pop), set up they way we want, if anyone complains, try to peacefully declare sovereignty if that fails fight for a revolution.

Option 3: (http://www.privateislandsonline.com/article2.htm), create a man made island, automatically making it sovereign. See above website for explanation.

[Scottish_Militant]

Option 4: Waken up dude....

[crazy comie]

this would only work if we had funders

[ComradeRobertRiley]

finders cc? each person pays about 6500 dollers that should cover it for 150 people

[ComradeRobertRiley]

BTW CC "we" are coming up with alternative ways (as well as people paying fair share for the island) to raise money, we are in the process of setting up a website and plan to produce a paper.

[crazy comie]

okay fine but we would also need equipment.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Yeah definately. so far we have 5 in definately and 2 maybies, its a start&#33;


P.S. If anyone reading this thread want for info and is interested, IM or PM Red Flag or myself

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2003, 02:40 PM
It would be great to have you on the island, I dont mean have you have you but ya now just more people the better LOL.


Well I was serious about being the manifesto writer. I do have some experience writing legal documents, grants for AIDS patients, and business plans for corps.

So I do have writing experience.

Now as far as being serious about being a porn star, CRR, you wouldnt have me on our own island? :P

[ComradeRobertRiley]

::blush::

not as a porn star. If we were a couple then.........in my dreams......

[crazy comie]

what would be wrong with a porn star

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Wouldnt it just be easier to have a simple boat community? I believe the military just about gives away obsolete aircraft carriers... Furthermore, it isnt too difficult to make a primative settlement, cults used to do it all the time by squatting a remote area in a 3rd world country.

[crazy comie]

good idea

[ComradeRobertRiley]

hmm we could use an aircraft carrier to get to the island, thanks man&#33;

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

:P I was thinking of using the aircraft carrier instead of the island.

[marxstudent]

I think it wouldn&#39;t be possible to get sovereignty. I&#39;m not sure if the forming of a socialist nation would be able to be done peacefully... What do you guys think?

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I don&#39;t think a boat needs sovereignty, you are in a boat in international waters, you go wherever the hell you want, and do whatever you want. If you are bugging a particular country, all you have to do is float your boat somewhere else, or just do whatever floats your boat for that matter. :P

[marxstudent]

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

... ok I&#39;m bored...

I think there&#39;s a lil progress but the things that are discussed here are kinda random and the response people give aren&#39;t very specific... so yeah.

[crazy comie]

good ideas

[ComradeRobertRiley]

what ever floats ya boat LOL I like that one :D


But on a serious note..........

There is not alot of serious discussion going on here but the serious talk is done by only those "involved" and its done through MSN AIM or ICQ

[Scottish_Militant]

http://www.our-pets.net/primatestore/images/contest9.jpg

[crazy comie]

what the fuck is that picture for

[Scottish_Militant]

It&#39;s comrade RAF

[Red Flag]

again i stress the conter productivness of this fuck

[Kez]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2003, 04:57 PM
It&#39;s comrade RAF
hahahaha, the pic wasnt the funny part, it was the fact that u sed its comrade RAF..hhahaha

have these hippie gypos figured how they gonna pay for thousands of gallons of fuel for the ship???

[crazy comie]

i could imagine him looking like that.

[redstarshining]

Originally posted by TavareeshKamo+Oct 21 2003, 10:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TavareeshKamo @ Oct 21 2003, 10:40 PM)
[email protected] 21 2003, 04:57 PM
It&#39;s comrade RAF
hahahaha, the pic wasnt the funny part, it was the fact that u sed its comrade RAF..hhahaha

have these hippie gypos figured how they gonna pay for thousands of gallons of fuel for the ship??? [/b]
If you can afford an aircraft carrier that wouldn&#39;t be the problem I guess ;)

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I found an aircraft carrier for sale on the internet for 4.5 million dollers, thats kind of alot so I dont think we&#39;ll bother LOL

[Scottish_Militant]

Why not concentrate on struggling for revolution, thats how socialism is acheived.

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 10:47 AM
Why not concentrate on struggling for revolution, thats how socialism is acheived.
that is true
but we where just talking about using the colony as an example.

[RedAnarchist]

That colony sounds like Utopia itself. But we should ensure that it is well defended agaisnt the cappies.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

xphile: yes we should

crazycommie: its NOT JUST an example

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

How the hell are you going to defend an aircraft carrier against the rest of the world? lol, we can all just live on a yellow submarine and cut off all contact with the outside world and have utopia that way. :P

[ComradeRobertRiley]

were not getting an aircraft carrier&#33;&#33;&#33; were buying an island&#33;

[Scottish_Militant]

no your not&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol:

[crazy comie]

what is the point of it if it isn&#39;t a a example is it just for our happines.

[Kez]

"what is the point of it if it isn&#39;t a a example is it just for our happines. "
-EXACTLY

this is simply a cowards adventurism, not a communist&#39;s struggle

[ComradeRobertRiley]

its not communism, its freedomism. Look you arseholes who have nothing better to do than post here rather than having the maturity to pass it by. There is a group of us "Leftists" who want to live in total freedom, for example:

free to take any drugs you want
what goes on between consenting adults is no business of the "state"
free to own guns
free to call kamo and communist_revolutionary wankers

etc etc

[redstarshining]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 08:39 PM
were not getting an aircraft carrier&#33;&#33;&#33; were buying an island&#33;
Actually that&#39;s possible, I had a catalogue once. The cheapest ones are about &#036;250,000.
Don&#39;t remember where they were located though. But it&#39;s far cheaper to buy a piece of land somewhere in the "underdeveloped" countries, if a ( nearly ) selfsufficient commune -which is probably what you had in mind- is your goal.

A nice idea in theory, but the greatest obstacle to independence will always be &#39;foreign trade&#39; and the accumulation of devices, which makes it fairly hard to sustain such a small community. Still, I&#39;m up for it any time, if enough people go along :)

[Scottish_Militant]

Kamo and I have decided to buy David Blaines perspex box, inside we will build a socialist society where private property will not exist and we will work for the common good. We will also have the freedom to laugh at your island.

[Scottish_Militant]

Although I think this project is balls I seen an &#39;island buying&#39; site here (http://www.7440.com/kiss), thought you&#39;d like to see

[crazy comie]

funny link not

[RAGING BULL]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 11:17 AM
Although I think this project is balls I seen an &#39;island buying&#39; site here (http://www.7440.com/kiss), thought you&#39;d like to see
Thank you very much motherfucker, that link fucked up my computer.

[Scottish_Militant]

Sorry folks :(

[crazy comie]

that was a waist of your time cr

[Kez]

fucking genius :)

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Well, this isn&#39;t a completely new concept, since numerous communes sprung up throughout the countryside in the 60&#39;s, some of which remain in successful operation. The reason they can continue to operate is because they are comprised of groups of people who are all believers in man&#39;s ability to share and to live in perfect equality. I see no reason why this would not work on a larger scale, provided that everyone involved is a true believer in the system, as this is the only way it can be pulled off in such a pure state.

[crazy comie]

yes that is true

[Kez]

and what influences do these hippie communes have upton the oppressed people of the world?

[Kez]

none

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I agree mojo

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Free People&#39;s Movement (http://www.doubleinfiniti.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl)



The first step towards freedom people. This subject in more depth and only for serious leftists who want action not just cheap talk.

[Scottish_Militant]

what about the island?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

For a better/more indepth explanation of the project click the Peoples Republic of Freedom link in my signature