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View Full Version : Socialism has nothing to do with Utopia



Dean
1st June 2011, 18:47
...its a simple problem-solving mechanism:


If the problem of hunger is restricted to our history, we can then seek to resolve the intricate issues of human inter-personal relations. The state of the individual in need is a state of oppression, for the simple reason that it disallows the free actualization of the human being: in such a state, one is tied above all to the very struggle to exist before one can exist as a free person:


"Mankind thus inevitably sets itself only such tasks as it is able to solve, since closer examination will always show that the problem itself arises only when the material conditions for its solution are already present or at least in the course of formation."1
"The realm of freedom really begins only where labour determined by necessity and external expediency ends; it lies by its very nature beyond the sphere of material production proper. ...Freedom, in this sphere, can consist only in this, that socialized man, the associated producers, govern the human metabolism with nature in a rational way, bringing it under their collective control instead of being dominated by it as a blind power..."2You may note (and it is sure to disappoint propertarians) that there is no Utopia here. No vision of perfection. Here, socialism is the solution of one problem, only to focus on other problems. It is the foundation of a society presupposing the satisfaction of basic human consumption.
The Rest (http://thethinred.blogspot.com/2011/05/individualism-utopian-socialism.html)

Socialism is the foundation of civil society on premises which allow more subtle problems to be solved. These premises are like any similar practices in political society: equal involvement on equal footing is the only way to create a fair political culture.

Any propertarians want to keep arguing the fantastical interpretation of socialism?

Thug Lessons
1st June 2011, 20:16
Does anyone else see the irony in arguing over whether a hypothetical future socialist society would be utopian or not?

OhYesIdid
2nd June 2011, 00:28
So, you are arguing that someone only counts as a human being if they are the best possible expression of a human being? Don't get me wrong, I would very much like to support this idea, but I would like to see it expressed more clearly.

¿Que?
2nd June 2011, 00:50
To the extent that any given problem can be linked to material and economic conditions, then those problems will not exist in a socialist society to that extent.

hatzel
3rd June 2011, 00:03
So, you are arguing that someone only counts as a human being if they are the best possible expression of a human being? Don't get me wrong, I would very much like to support this idea, but I would like to see it expressed more clearly.

If you ain't a master you're a slave, brooooo :thumbup:

Dumb
3rd June 2011, 00:45
I'm glad to see socialism has nothing to do with Utopia. I wouldn't want to belong to any movement that had anything to do with Todd Rundgren.

RGacky3
3rd June 2011, 11:09
Exactly, its a set of principles, or a premis, on which to build on depending on the situations.

ZrianKobani
8th June 2011, 01:11
For some reason this reminds me of something Mao said,

"It is dogmatism to approach Marxism from a metaphysical point of view and to regard it as something rigid. It is revisionism to negate the basic principles of Marxism and to negate its universal truth."