"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques"

[Hebrew Hammer]

My question is two part:

1) How should we as revolutionaries feel about such interrogation techniques used by imperialist-capitalist states against their enemies?

2) How should we as revolutionaries view using such techniques during a revolution to obtain strategic information crucial to wining said revolution or when capitalist powers are trying to fight against established Socialist states like for example the USSR?

Just so we're clear, I know "enhanced interrogation techniques," means torture.

[Lord Testicles]

Torture is cruel and pointless and the only true information that torture produces is that people will admit or say anything to make the torture stop in other words, your not going to obtain any useful "strategic information crucial to winning a revolution" by using "enhanced interrogation techniques".

[#FF0000]

Torture is p. much useless no matter what.

[GPDP]

The only time torture ever produces "good results" is if it's performed to a wide population. Torture enough people, and you might just eventually piece together enough scraps of good information (after filtering out the vast majority of non-information and misinformation) to get what you desire. But of course, the side effect of such an approach is that it breeds hatred and mistrust among the people and abroad, not to mention the severe ethical issues with the practice.

The fabled ticking time bomb scenario, wherein you have one terrorist who has the necessary information as to its whereabouts and torture would quickly produce the necessary information, is a complete myth and a dangerous yet powerful propaganda tool. Pro-torture proponents like to talk about performing torture on only a select few high-profile prisoners and targets, yet like I said, torture produces bad information much more often than not, and the people with the highest stake in the "terrorist plot" are not very likely to just divulge the information anyway, so it HAS to be done not to a select few, but to many, many people, which opens a whole can of worms.

In the end, like with the death penalty, all torture is truly effective at doing is satisfying a sadistic lust for blood. And make no mistake, it is an addictive practice. Once started, the risk runs high that its use will quickly spread.

If your aim is to get good, reliable information, as opposed to terrorizing people under the pretense of getting information, there are many passive interrogation techniques that have proven to be far more effective than anything you could possibly get with torture. The best information is divulged by establishing a connection with the prisoner, not by beating him or terrorizing him into submission. I would certainly hope in a revolutionary situation, our side would do well to discard the idea of torture (which should've been left behind with the Middle Ages) and embrace passive interrogation. No doubt the forces of reaction will not do the same, but we should not sink to their level.

[Ocean Seal]

My question is two part:

1) How should we as revolutionaries feel about such interrogation techniques used by imperialist-capitalist states against their enemies?

They're fucked up excuses for torture and for the legitimization of crimes against enemy combatants labeled terrorists. And even more disgusting than the torture itself is the attempt to legitimize it. Because of course the "terrorists" aren't people, aren't soldiers and so on.



2) How should we as revolutionaries view using such techniques during a revolution to obtain strategic information crucial to wining said revolution or when capitalist powers are trying to fight against established Socialist states like for example the USSR?

Just so we're clear, I know "enhanced interrogation techniques," means torture.
Torture is beyond me honestly. It is a truly awful thing to subject any human being to that. There are other ways of obtaining information. Don't buy into the capitalist myth that the only way is torture. They do it to dehumanize the enemy and because they want the "terrorists" to say what they want to hear (ie: There are WMD's in Iraq).

Torture is just fucked up and it completely goes against our cause.

[Hebrew Hammer]

This certainly all makes sense, I was just curious is all, as I was watching the news and they were talking about so I thought I would ask. I was curious as I thought perhaps during the cold war or during the Vienam war or other revolutionary struggles maybe the comrades used such techniques when necessary. But all of this certainly makes sense to me (aside from the death penalty comment but that can be another thread). I have heard about such things allegedly used by the Viet cong but I'm not sure if that's just cappie war-time propaganda or what. I thought I also remember hearing about Spanish Anarchists using disorienting psych interrogation techniques during the Spanish civil war but I'm not sure how true this either.

[#FF0000]

They might have. Regardless, it was wrong and probably not all that helpful anyway.

[Zav]

Torture is a primitive method of interrogation that nation-states employ to advance unethical agendas, and should have been abandoned and placed in a museum centuries ago. Torture is never truly justified, and what "justification" given by them is nearly always a veiled threat to the rest of the world.

[Tenka]

Torture is useless for interrogation, barring where one wants to force a false confession (which is unscrupulous and such). I don't think it should be used seriously.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Torture is a primitive method of interrogation that nation-states employ to advance unethical agendas, and should have been abandoned and placed in a museum centuries ago. Torture is never truly justified, and what "justification" given by them is nearly always a veiled threat to the rest of the world.

Agreed, now, putting physical torture aside, and let me play the devil's advocate here, what about disorienting psych interrogation techniques? I'm not sure if this would qualify under the "enhanced," interrogation techniques umbrella or torture but what about this? Things like sleep dep and other such things to break down the mental wall so they will "spill it"?

[Tenka]

Agreed, now, putting physical torture aside, and let me play the devil's advocate here, what about disorienting psych interrogation techniques? I'm not sure if this would qualify under the "enhanced," interrogation techniques umbrella or torture but what about this? Things like sleep dep and other such things to break down the mental wall so they will "spill it"?

I'd honestly rather have my balls shocked than be subjected to forced sleep deprivation or solitary confinement or anything that could permanently damage my mental state.

[GPDP]

Agreed, now, putting physical torture aside, and let me play the devil's advocate here, what about disorienting psych interrogation techniques? I'm not sure if this would qualify under the "enhanced," interrogation techniques umbrella or torture but what about this? Things like sleep dep and other such things to break down the mental wall so they will "spill it"?

When I refer to torture, I am also talking about non-physical torture. I would say mental torture, such as sleep deprivation and sensory deprivation/overload, is actually several degrees worse than normal beatings and such. Harming the body is bad, but assuming they're not going for complete incapacitation, the wounds will heal. Attack the mind, however, and you will not come out the same person.

In the end, physical or not, torture sucks all around. It's not effective as an information-gathering tool, and only serves to terrorize the victims and turn the torturers into sadistic tools. There is no "when necessary" provision. Passive interrogation, espionage, etc. are vastly superior forms of information gathering in every way.