Commmunists In The Military

[Hebrew Hammer]

Correct me if I am wrong but the Russian military played a crucial role in the ultimate victory of the proletariat during the Russian revolution, correct? Currently, at least in the US, the military is one of the few options working-class folk have to get themselves out of living "hand-to-mouth." Many people join simply, mainly, if not solely because of economic reasons. What do you think of people joining the military? Theoretically, if there was a massive influx of class conscious revolutionaries joining the services (assuming they can bite their tongue and say yes, yes sir on certain recruiting questions) wouldn't this greatly aid the revolution as it did in 1917? Wouldn't this be needed for the success of a revolution? To turn one of the capitalists own tools against them?

[ArrowLance]

Infiltrating the military is a silly idea, general discontent is all that is necessary for support of troops and you would not be able to simply join the military without some degree of conformation to their will. As for people joining the military I believe that it is an understandable choice but still one that I must condemn. Joining an imperialist army is a horrible betrayal of the international working class as it is becoming a tool of imperialist forces while other options are still available.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Infiltrating the military is a silly idea, general discontent is all that is necessary for support of troops and you would not be able to simply join the military without some degree of conformation to their will. As for people joining the military I believe that it is an understandable choice but still one that I must condemn. Joining an imperialist army is a horrible betrayal of the international working class as it is becoming a tool of imperialist forces while other options are still available.

Well, I can agree with you there however there are non-combat ratings, MOS, etc. that one could do which wouldn't directly aid US imperialism, not to mention, sabotage, even if subtle. I don't know, I don't think it's necessarily silly and I think that we should infiltrate not just unions and other labor and traditional areas but all areas of the capitalist power system as well; military, political, etc. leave the capitalists with nothing once the revolution happens. I'm not sure if I would bank on general discontent for the support of the troops, maybe I am being idealistic about it but I think if we had some committed, class conscious revolutionaries within each service branch, infiltrating, spreading ideas slowly and carefully, that would greatly aid the class struggle and create even more ideal conditions for a revolution. Especially if we had comrades that made it up in the ranks and so forth.

I don't know, an idea?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Any position within an imperialist military is assisting the function of the imperialist military.

If it wasnt assisting its functions, then it wouldnt exist.

Also, joining the military with the ideological motivation of destroying it or promoting defeat is a dumb idea. youll get killed before you make any real change. or you will be imprisoned. either way its a waste of time and also a revolution is not an ideological coup d'etat, it is an organized uprising of one class to topple another and fundamentally change the way people relate to the means of production.

Advocating defeatism and socialism from OUTSIDE the military is fine. And doing so from the inside if you joined before you were class conscious is fine as well. The source of anger in the Russian imperial army was peasants and workers being CONSCRIPTED into a losing war led by asshole officers and being under equipped and poorly supported while at home your families and class brethren were starving for that very war effort! Not that a bunch of communists joined the army.

Lenin called the army "Peasants with guns" and agitated along that line. You are a worker or a peasant, you are in this military. you are being told what to do for someone elses benefit. your family is going hungry for someone else while you are told to go and kill another worker and bring woe upon their family. your interest is not to fight this war, but to fight the officers who lead you, to fight the tsar who commands you, to fight the capitalist who is making a profit off of your death and the death of the worker on the other side of your rifle.



WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE CONSCIOUSLY PUT THEMSELVES IN THAT POSITION!?

[Hebrew Hammer]

Any position within an imperialist military is assisting the function of the imperialist military.

True.



Also, joining the military with the ideological motivation of destroying it or promoting defeat is a dumb idea. youll get killed before you make any real change. or you will be imprisoned. either way its a waste of time and also a revolution is not an ideological coup d'etat, it is an organized uprising of one class to topple another and fundamentally change the way people relate to the means of production.


Well, I understand that, that it's one class overthrowing the other but couldn't it also be said that it's both a class struggle and an ideaological struggle?



Advocating defeatism and socialism from OUTSIDE the military is fine. And doing so from the inside if you joined before you were class conscious is fine as well. The source of anger in the Russian imperial army was peasants and workers being CONSCRIPTED into a losing war led by asshole officers and being under equipped and poorly supported while at home your families and class brethren were starving for that very war effort! Not that a bunch of communists joined the army.

Lenin called the army "Peasants with guns" and agitated along that line. You are a worker or a peasant, you are in this military. you are being told what to do for someone elses benefit. your family is going hungry for someone else while you are told to go and kill another worker and bring woe upon their family. your interest is not to fight this war, but to fight the officers who lead you, to fight the tsar who commands you, to fight the capitalist who is making a profit off of your death and the death of the worker on the other side of your rifle.


I see.


WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE CONSCIOUSLY PUT THEMSELVES IN THAT POSITION!?

Simmer down, I'm new, just an idea, albeit stupid or silly.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Simmer down, I'm new, just an idea, albeit stupid or silly.


i had no intention of yelling at you. just after writing that i felt that the absurdity of a communist joining an imperialist military was too great.

[The Douche]

There is no infiltration to do. To infiltrate the military would suggest that there is some sort of organization or movement we are going to bring soldiers to support.

This organization/movement does not exist in any effective capacity at the moment. And when the time comes that it does, then we won't need to infiltrate because there will allready be soldiers coming around to communist ideas.


I've been in the army almost 6 years.