Young and unsure, Socialism or Communism?

[toastedmonkey]

I am 17, and relatively new to the world of politics. I suppose what i need is a definition of socialism and communism, but i belive there are no such definative answers. It something i have to build up a knowledge of, which i am doing.
But an outline would be much benificial as i can begin to see where my belifs lie.
thank you very much

[Comrade Marcel]

Read The Principles of Communism
http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/184...11/prin-com.htm (http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm)

And then read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific
http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/188...-utop/index.htm (http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm)

[CompadreGuerrillera]

check out orgs like RCP, BPP(Black Panthers) and others to see if you like thier ideals. Secondly, read the communist manifesto, this is an important part of deciding what type of leftist you are. Also, talk with anarchists and anarchist puplications, beacause you mgiht turn out to favor their ideals as well. Just do some basic research, and coming here was a good idea

Welcome to the Forums Comrade!! If you need help or anything, tell us, were happy to have you!

[redstar2000]

Try these...

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...t=ST&f=6&t=6362 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=6362)

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...t=ST&f=6&t=6365 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=6365)

You'll find on this board that there is considerable and rather heated discussion on these matters...by no means are they "settled".

Welcome.

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The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

This is my brief test to see whether or not you're a communist:

1. Do you acknowlege the existance of class warfare?
2. Do you acknowlege the fact that the people are not able to wield power in capitalist "democracies"?
3. Do you acknowlege the fact that capitalism concentrates power in the hands of an elite, exploitative few?
4. Do you acknowlege the fact that capitalism does not work in fucntion of the interests of the people because of #3?
5. Do you acknowlege the fact that the people have a right to rule society?
6. Do you acknowlege the fact that any factions that seeks to concentrate power in the hands of anyone other than the people (i.e. capitalistst, religous people, racists, sexists, facsists, etc.) are in fact fundamentaly undemocractic and will never serve the will of the people and therefore have no purpose in socialist/democratic politics?
7. Do you acknowlege the fact that for people to gain influence and power the bourgeoisie must be suppressed?
8. Do you acknowlege the fact that the people can only gain power once the bourgeois government is phased out?
9. Do you acknowlege the fact that for the destruction of the fundamentaly unfair practices of bourgeois government, violent revolutionary action is necessary?

If you answered NO to any of these, you're not a commie. If you answered NO to number 9, but YES to the rest, you may be a Democratic Socialist.

If you answered YES to all of the questiosn then you, my comrade, are a bonafied communist! :)

I just made these up as I went, but I think they pretty much cover it?

[redstar2000]

8. Do you acknowledge the fact that the people can only gain power once the bourgeois government is phased out?

Phased out? Actually, the Marxist "formula" is usually stated thus: the old capitalist government--"state machinery"--must be completely "smashed"...presumably meaning that it is to be completely dismantled, top to bottom.

This is the first thing that proletarian revolution actually does.

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The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:43 PM

8. Do you acknowledge the fact that the people can only gain power once the bourgeois government is phased out?

Phased out? Actually, the Marxist "formula" is usually stated thus: the old capitalist government--"state machinery"--must be completely "smashed"...presumably meaning that it is to be completely dismantled, top to bottom.

This is the first thing that proletarian revolution actually does.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas
Damn you are SOOOOOOO knit picky

But yeah Redstar is right about this one, despite the fact that the wording really was irrelevant to what he was trying to say

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Welcome on board!

Don't worry about beeing "socialist" or "communist".

Read the discusions, add usefull comments. Educate yourself and don't put yourself in a corner. Don't specify yourself. Like we don't have enough seperation in the leftist corner.

[RED CHARO]

I think socialist or communist,-
You should always remeber those who fought and died around the world for those Ideals and respect there memory.......

[Anastacia]

I am not socialist nor communist. I act my own way. Every ideolgy has their own problems. Nobody tells me what to do or think. My thoughts are very leftist but I don't describe myself as a commie nor socialist.

[Invader Zim]

I doubt that the proletarat will ever rise up in the way described by Marx, as socioty does not exist in the way it did when Marx made those predictions. This is especially true in the modern westernised countries.

However in third world countries which do not have any other means of removing leaders than by force, it is a viable and likley option. It is made even more likley because not only do the rulers rule with brutality in many cases, but these countries are poor, and when you get right down to it socialism is made more likley in a economicaly poor enviroment. An early working class movment was described as a "knife and fork movement", which I find to be a rather accurate quote.

[RED CHARO]

...

[sc4r]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 10:22 PM
I am 17, and relatively new to the world of politics. I suppose what i need is a definition of socialism and communism, but i belive there are no such definative answers. It something i have to build up a knowledge of, which i am doing.
But an outline would be much benificial as i can begin to see where my belifs lie.
thank you very much
Why does it matter to you whether your beliefs are best labelled Socialism, or best labelled Communism?

Find out about both (and about other ideas), and let your beliefs be formed by what you see as good and workable in each, then do the very hard part and discard even those 'good ideas' which cannot be reconciled with the multiple other good ideas which you have.

In other words form a consistent belief set of your own and support those who seem to reasonably approximate to it (you will never get a perfect match). And neber be afraid to continue growing and modifying, and disgarding.

Do not allow the label you choose for yourself to define what you 'must' believe; that way lies Dogma and ignorance (something many fall prey too); this board, like all political boards, is full of people who have 'chosen' to be Communists or Socialists, or Leninists, or Liberals, or Capitalists, or Fascists, or whatever, before they actually know what any of these thing are, and then start accepting whatever the one they have chosen say as the truth. In other words they allow the definition to drive their beliefs rather than using their beliefs and knowlege to test the validity of the ideas encapsulated in the definitions.

if you are merely asking 'what should I call myself to quickly convey the gist of my beliefs to others' and you are unsure whether to say 'communist' or 'Socialist', then say 'Socialist'; this would actually include 'communism' as a possible subset in most contexts anyway.

[Iepilei]

don't become so tied up with labeling that you forget what you're struggling for - the liberation of the workers from the bourgeoise.

I don't see why it's such a big deal. I have a friend of mine who routinely gets stuck on labels, as well. :unsure:

[toastedmonkey]

Thank you all very much,
I have much to read up on and many thoughts to mull over.
This has already proved to be very helpful

[Sensitive]

Courses of Marxism (http://www.oneparty.co.uk/html/courses.html) - learn the basics.

[redstar2000]

From the link that Sensitive posted...


11. IS A MARXIST-LENINIST PARTY NECESSARY TO BRING ABOUT A SOCIALIST REVOLUTION?

Yes, it is essential.

We have seen that socialism cannot be established without the building by the working class of a machinery of force capable of seizing political power from and defeating the machinery of force of the capitalist class. But just as an army cannot wage a successful war without a General Staff to lead and coordinate its military ativity, so the 'army' of the working class cannot lead to victory a revolutionary war against the forces of the capitalist state without its own 'General Staff' to lead it and coordinate its activity.

12. WHAT IS DEMOCRATIC CENTRALISM, AND WHY DO MARXIST-LENINIST PARTIES NEED TO ORGANISE THEMSELVES ON ITS PRINCIPLE?

In order to lead an army to victory, its General Staff must put forward a single line of action to the troops. If different generals were to put forward different lines of action, their army would surely be defeated. A Marxist-Leninist Party must, therefore, be based upon unity of will, and this is obtained by means of the organisational principle of centralism: that is, decisions of higher organs are binding upon lower organs and upon every Party member, while decisions of majorities are binding upon minorities.

What a load of crap to dump on a newbie! You ought to be ashamed of yourself. :angry:

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A site about communist ideas