Revleft punks, answer these questions!

[The Douche]

So I used to be a punk, like 6 or 7 years ago, so not a really long time, but its pretty distant to me now.

When I was a punk the big trend was crust/d-beat/grind/anarcho etc. When I first got into it I was a streetpunk and so was everybody else and then it seemed like the weight of the scene shifted towards anarcho-punk, I did personally as well. And that is when I became a serious anarchist, I remember when I first came around here that most of the threads in the music forum were about punk, now it seems very different. I suppose my question is, has the scene swayed back towards the nihilist streetpunk stuff? Has it gone in a totally different direction? Is anarcho-punk still the main thing? Why does it seem like there are less punks on revleft now?

[Spawn of Stalin]

I was thinking about this the other day. I mostly listen to hip hop but I go to local punk shows on a weekly basis and can safely say that very few punks here in the UK give a fuck about politics, the state, anarchism, or anything like that. There's always this weird individualistic vibe about them too, I just get the sense that nobody really cares about each other. It's just a party to them

[praxis1966]

Yeah, unfortunately what Spawn of Stalin is saying is pretty universal I think. You can see the evidence of it yourself. Just go look at the reviews of NOFX's War Never Trust a Hippie album on Amazon. About half of them are shrieking like banshees that NOFX has "sold out to politics." Which is mind bogglingly stupid if you ask me (haven't these guys ever heard of the Clash, Minor Threat, 7 Seconds, Black Flag?! it's been political since day one). Never mind that I dunno how you sell out when there's been no money involved...

Anyway, yeah, the whole thing's pretty devoid of any kind of label or descriptor, primarily because the punks themselves are rejecting it.

[Sasha]

Here its mostly crust and grind with overtly political lyrics, but how much they actually do irl is an whole other debate most seem to spend most time on drinking and speed sniffing to be honest.
But the real my politics don't go deeper than my dreadlocks and my patches are more in the tekno scene.

[gorillafuck]

Which is mind bogglingly stupid if you ask me (haven't these guys ever heard of the Clash, Minor Threat, 7 Seconds, Black Flag?! it's been political since day one).Black Flag and Minor Threat are definitely not political bands at all.

[praxis1966]

Black Flag and Minor Threat are definitely not political bands at all.

Right. So I guess the songs Police Story and Guilty of Being White didn't have any political implications...

[gorillafuck]

Right. So I guess the songs Police Story and Guilty of Being White didn't have any political implications...Police Story is about hating police. Hating police doesn't make you a political band, hating cops can be completely apolitical. And Guilty Of Being white is about Ian Mackaye getting beaten up for being white, it's one song. Also, even if those were seriously political, one political song doesn't make a band a political band.

The Ramones wrote Bonzo Goes To Bitburg but they could not be called a politically oriented band.

[praxis1966]

Police Story is about hating police. Hating police doesn't make you a political band, hating cops can be completely apolitical. And Guilty Of Being white is about getting beaten up for being white, it's one song. Also, even if those were seriously political, one political song doesn't make a band a political band.

The Ramones wrote Bonzo Goes To Bitburg but they could not be called a politically oriented band.

Fair enough. But my point wasn't really to say that they were political bands, but that they wrote about politics... Today those guys would get accused of selling out somehow.
I guess it's my own fault for throwing them in with the likes of the Clash 'n' shit that that point wasn't really clear from my initial post.

Anyway, none of this is really on-topic.

[gorillafuck]

but my point is that Black flag never wrote about politics and Minor Threat had one vaguely political song so no they didn't. But whatever.

I have never heard of anyone getting accused of selling out to politics. I'd actually like it if crust punk wasn't all political.

[praxis1966]

I have never heard of anyone getting accused of selling out to politics. I'd actually like it if crust punk wasn't all political.


Now, don't mistake me for some hater. NOFX is an AWESOME band, they're just selling out to politics and religion. C'mon, guys! I've been a fan since "so What If We're ON mystic?" so, yeah, im one helluva more knowledgable about them than most of you. They still have the talent, they're just not using it! (sorry for my grammar, i wrote this in a hurry!)


NOFX is probably the most shamelessly sold out punk band EVER. Fat Mike thinks his opinion is law, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. What happened to the good ol' days, when they were ACTUALLY FUNNY? I mean, is this record a joke!?!?? Yeah, and um, NOFX isn't the funniest band ever. In fact, this WON'T give them a song idea. NOFX has no ideas. They are just jumping on the political and religious bandwagon to sell more records. Honestly, I don't care what NOFX says anymore. All I hear is a bunch of whiners going "Blah, blah, blah..."

Those are the reviews I was mentioning earlier... I'm sure they're not the only band getting accused of it otherwise they wouldn't have written "You're Wrong."

[Comrade J]

Does the London Calling album constitute punk in any way? Cause I fucking love that album.

[ZeroNowhere]

Those are the reviews I was mentioning earlier... I'm sure they're not the only band getting accused of it otherwise they wouldn't have written "You're Wrong."I don't think that there's much wrong with the second review, which is simply saying that NoFX have sold out by going for lazy political lyrics to sell records to liberals who agree rather than actually trying to be amusing. I would disagree, because I don't think that NoFX have ever had anything to sell out, nor had any humour to sacrifice to their consistently dull political lyrics, but nonetheless it doesn't seem a particularly ludicrous point. If they began to write more political lyrics, then it would be perfectly understandable if a fan saw them as declining in quality in order to appeal to people who will listen to them for playing up on hot-button issues, as to be frank NoFX's political songs tend to appear like exactly that.


Does the London Calling album constitute punk in any way? Cause I fucking love that album.It is generally classified under punk, as far as I am aware. It is somewhat different from, say, the Subhumans, but I suppose that The Mob often were too.

[nuisance]

dub, dubstep and drum and bass.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I love punk and have always identified with punk as a subculture, but I've never been a purist and never really considered myself "punk" as some kind of identity. I'm not going to say punk is dead because that's just stupid, but I think it's in a hibernation phase. Personally I think it's been like that for a while - ever since the late 90s because as a counter-culture it doesn't know how to deal with the mainstream culture. I think as a result of pop-punk there was an internalizing effect among more hardcore fans and it increased the tendency to be a hater and suspicious of scenes that mean that musically things went either more mainstream and pop or more niche and small.

The recession and a healthy new space for "petty-bourgeois" music production in the music industry makes me think that a new youth underground will probably emerge soon. But I don't know if it will come from the existing hardcore scenes, I think like the dinosaurs, they became too specialized and may not adapt to an emerging new surge of class and youth anger.

That being said, I like garage music, not hardcore genres... people mosh and shit at those shows and they are almost uniformly apolitical but fun and exciting as hell. If there was a good garage/psych-punk band with clever political lyrics, I'd stalk them, force them to convert to the Gay Polygamist Mormon Church and then marry them all (if they were men, that is - if not I'd have a sex change first in order to not offend the Gay Polygamist Mormon Church officials).

[The Douche]

Like, the idea of NOFX being to political, that leaves me scratching my head. We were listening to bands like a//political, who were encouraging punks to join the IWW, or aus-rotten who used images like crucified dildos to get us to think about patriarchy and religion. We read profane existence magazine and marched in black blocs.

And now some band that asks its listeners "please don't vote for nader" (cause it would prevent a democrat from being elected) is to political?:confused:

[ZeroNowhere]

Like, the idea of NOFX being to political, that leaves me scratching my head. We were listening to bands like a//political, who were encouraging punks to join the IWW, or aus-rotten who used images like crucified dildos to get us to think about patriarchy and religion. We read profane existence magazine and marched in black blocs.

And now some band that asks its listeners "please don't vote for nader" (cause it would prevent a democrat from being elected) is to political?:confused:
I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of them being political as of how they are political. I don't think that it's too far-fetched to say that NoFX are, "just jumping on the [liberal] political and religious bandwagon to sell more records."

[The Douche]

I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of them being political as of how they are political. I don't think that it's too far-fetched to say that NoFX are, "just jumping on the [liberal] political and religious bandwagon to sell more records."

The line I was referring to was from a 2003 album, so I hardly see how their newest album can constitute "jumping on the bandwagon".

I think, more likely, the type of people in the punk scene have changed, and the type of bands which are cool has changed.

Like I said, when I first got into punk the cool bands to listen to were the casualties, a global threat, clit 45, the virus, pretty much the bands on punkcore records and charged records. But that trend went away and the cool bands to listen to were crass, and conflict, and amebix, bands that were openly anarchist and promoting anarchism (both as a lifestyle and as activism).


I can't remember that last time I went to a punk show. I just noticed the general lack of punks on here (which used to be punk central) and the lack of talk around the internet about anarcho-punk, which, like I said, used to be the big thing.

[praxis1966]

I'm not sure that it's so much a matter of them being political as of how they are political. I don't think that it's too far-fetched to say that NoFX are, "just jumping on the [liberal] political and religious bandwagon to sell more records."

Maybe. But I think that logic is actually a lot more far fetched than to think that perhaps their politicization stems from having seen what went on during the Bush administration. Personally, I know a ton of people who were pushed to the left because of it... How far just happened to depend on their starting point. Is it so out of the realm of possibility that the same thing happened to that band?

[gorillafuck]

Like I said, when I first got into punk the cool bands to listen to were the casualties, a global threat, clit 45, the virus, pretty much the bands on punkcore records and charged records. But that trend went away and the cool bands to listen to were crass, and conflict, and amebix, bands that were openly anarchist and promoting anarchism (both as a lifestyle and as activism).from the band stuff I've noticed people wearing at punk shows, I see that stuff. Stuff like Conflict, Discharge, etc. but also stuff like The Casualties, The Virus, etc. punk has trends but I think that, at least where I live, stuff sort of always stays cool to listen to.

[tracher999]

i listen to punk i love that muzik i love the punk scene punk not dead

[An archist]

Well, off course I can only give you an idea of the Belgian punk scene, it's still pretty much the same since when I got into it.
You've got basically two punk scenes: the one where people dress in leather jackets, studs and die their hair all kinds of colours, they go to expensive shows and drink cheap beer, the politics don't go beyond: "anarkyy, throw something at cops!!"
and there's the squatter-anarcho punk scene where punks look dirtier, dress mostly in black clothes and you can find some dedicated anarchists. They go to cheap shows and drink the same cheap beer.
The two scenes rarely mix or meet, only when there's a really good band playing.

[The Douche]

Well, off course I can only give you an idea of the Belgian punk scene, it's still pretty much the same since when I got into it.
You've got basically two punk scenes: the one where people dress in leather jackets, studs and die their hair all kinds of colours, they go to expensive shows and drink cheap beer, the politics don't go beyond: "anarkyy, throw something at cops!!"
and there's the squatter-anarcho punk scene where punks look dirtier, dress mostly in black clothes and you can find some dedicated anarchists. They go to cheap shows and drink the same cheap beer.
The two scenes rarely mix or meet, only when there's a really good band playing.

This is how I remember it being here, but now it seems like anarcho-punk is dwindling.

[An archist]

This is how I remember it being here, but now it seems like anarcho-punk is dwindling.

Maybe it's just because you (and me) are getting old and your old punk friends are turning to new things?

[Rusty Shackleford]

i haven't met any plain ol punks but in general, american youth are turned off by politics. ignorance of politics is still "in." i think it is starting to fade away though.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Maybe it's just because you (and me) are getting old and your old punk friends are turning to new things?
I think this is definitely true. On a month or two ago I was at a show and it was pretty clear that I wasn't into one of the bands playing, my friends on the other hand were, after they finished up their set I turned to them, chuckled and said "I think I'm getting old!" They couldn't understand why I wasn't digging them.

But whatever, I'm not into whining about how everyone changed and I'm the only cool one left. I'd rather just feel miserable about it in my private time.

[Chimurenga.]

Punk rock has always been, for the most part, apolitical. There are of course, exceptions, like The Dicks, Articles Of Faith, Manliftingbanner, Refused, etc.

I noticed when I was involved with going to shows on a constant basis that apolitical bands are the norm. That is one reason I stopped being involved. Don't get me wrong, punk rock served its purpose with me and I still listen to a lot of punk bands every now and then. I just don't feel that same connection to the music that I did when I was 16-17ish. I do feel like I have moved on.

Also, I was never involved with the "crust" subgenre. We all thought that shit was silly. The dropout-lifestyleism and whatnot. Some good bands came out of that though, like Tragedy. So I have no idea about that.

[The Douche]

I mean, I'm still active in the local hardcore scene (there never was a punk scene in my town), I would say that I'm one of the main people in the local scene. But hardcore is, and largely always has been apolitical. Its just weird for me to go into the music forum on here and not see threads about anarcho/crust punk, since that used to be the bread and butter of this website/revolutionary youth.

[Chimurenga.]

It should've been noted that I tend to use punk rock/hardcore interchangeably.

[nuisance]

seriously, dub is well in.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Love crust, but "the scene" is laughable. But I jam me some Oroku, His Hero is Gone, To What End?, and others often :cool:

I love punk rock, but the people are shady or lame. Hardcore shows are better. /shitstorm

[the last donut of the night]

idk about the american scene, but punk is pretty political here in brazil. the musical style is a blend of old crust punk and like, a bit of warzone

[Ermo Kruus]

The punk scene here in Trondheim, Norway, is pretty Euro-hardcore-Disorder-style oriented, even though it used to have a fair share of d-beat bands. The punk scene here is based around a squat called UFFA, and is usually pretty political.

[cop an Attitude]

seriously, dub is well in.

Yeah, I'd say so too. Dub for the most part has splintered many subcultures in resent years. From hippies to college bros to the anarcho-punks, everyone seems to at least have an opinion on electronica/dubstep. I've noticed there are normally two fields, those who embrace djs, computer generated music and the overall sound of a sub-bass, then those who hold rustic and true musicianship to those playing solid instruments.

I liken the rapid change in how popular (although mainlined) Dubstep is now to a Musical Revolution. The implications are something everyone of us should study more, as it is a changing of mindsets for American youths in general, one of the most dependent and naive masses. Although the rest of the world is swept up into rebellion against their tyrants, I feel this new music may be our artistic impression of our class war and all the effects it causes. An abstract, contemporary slavery spiritual, if you will.