A wordy introduction!

[Makaru]

Hello, RevLeft! I'm a 23 year-old recent college grad from the Shreveport, Louisiana metropolitan area and I've been lurking these forums for a few weeks. As you can imagine, the leftist scene here is small and scattered, drowned out by Southern Baptists and rabid conservatives. The TEA Party has a strong following as well.

I actually stumbled upon this forum a few weeks ago during a Google search for leftist forums, in search of community. I'll be honest - at first I was put off by the "revolutionary" part. However, I've at least opened up to the concept after reading what many of you have to say, as well as reading links supplied for further reading. I have long been a center to left liberal Democrat and I think I've been like many American liberals, who think that with enough compassion and action the evils of capitalism can be cured while not radically changing the system. However, I have come to fully accept that the so-called virtues of capitalism rest upon the manipulation of human beings to promote self-interest and personal wealth at the expense of others. This is something that has always bubbled under the surface for me since I turned left in high school, and I am at last disgusted with it. I no longer have a desire to "fix" something that cannot be fixed, which is totally and utterly bankrupt of any morality or sense of TRUE justice.

Thus, I have become particularly enamored with libertarian socialism, especially after listening to a talk given by Noam Chomsky. I am, at the moment, favoring anarcho-communism over the other variations, though I expect that could change as I learn more.

I have not yet read any of the obvious texts that any budding leftist needs to read beyond The Communist Manifesto, nor am I entirely sure what I should read. Any tips are definitely welcome. Also, sorry if this is too wordy for an introduction. I look forward to learning and becoming a part of this forum community! :)

[Cork Socialist]

Welcome to the Community :D check out Marxists.org for more material to read over.

[RedHal]

First Chomsky, next probably ISO, that's the typical route of American democrats:laugh:

[Garret]

Hello there!

Might want to check out the reading list on the Learning FAQ thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft-com-consolidated-t131001/index.html), browse the learning forum and ask what has not been answered.

[Broletariat]

Welcome aboard comrade.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

First Chomsky, next probably ISO, that's the typical route of American democrats:laugh:

That is largely true but in this case the OP is sincerely trying to learn. Let's not turn him away and have him end of as a Democrat.

[Comrade J]

Hey, welcome to RL!

As someone has already said, Marxists.org is useful and has a huge selection, and I believe it even has a page on suggested intro-to-Marxism texts - but an absolute must read is the Anarchist FAQ, which is brilliantly written and packed with useful well-reasoned information that counteracts standard arguments you will encounter. Sections C & D are really useful in explaining statism, free-market/laissez-faire economics etc. The link is here (http://www.infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ) but as I type the site is temporarily down.

In case you don't know, your posts will be actively moderated until you reach 10 posts, just a measure to counteract spambots and such.

[Makaru]

Thanks everyone! I'll be checking out Marxists.org and the Anarchist FAQ. I expect that this summer will be full of new insight and lots of reading. :)


First Chomsky, next probably ISO, that's the typical route of American democrats:laugh:

Chomsky actually only triggered further interest for me. I considered getting one of his books, but since they seem to focus so heavily on American imperialism and not what I'm currently looking for, I decided to move on and come back to him later. The only reason I'd never gotten interested in anything further left than democratic socialism was because I had an acute misunderstanding of what communism and leftist anarchism meant. It was after finding this site that I came to appreciate the diversity of opinions and thought on the Left that suit my own understanding of history and beliefs about how the world ought to operate.

As for the ISO, I'm only slightly familiar with it..I know they put out a newspaper and run a couple of affiliated websites. The newspaper just looks ridiculous IMO (little else than propaganda at its worst) and the yearly event looks like something I'd be interested in...if I lived in Chicago. Frankly, charging people to attend a SOCIALIST event at a hotel seems pretty idiotic. I would probably find it nice to be able to network with like-minded people since I largely lack that sort of thing in my hometown, but beyond that it's probably very ineffective at doing anything except making a few socialists feel good about themselves even as they employ stark hypocrisy. I'm not interested in feeling good about socialism; I eventually want to channel my anger and disgust into productive channels whether it's a protest or some form of community organizing. I can't do that until I fully know what I'm talking about, however. :P

I assure you that though I may look typical, my passion and interest are genuine, as is my desire to learn. ;)

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

As for the ISO, I'm only slightly familiar with it..I know they put out a newspaper and run a couple of affiliated websites. The newspaper just looks ridiculous IMO (little else than propaganda at its worst) and the yearly event looks like something I'd be interested in...if I lived in Chicago. Frankly, charging people to attend a SOCIALIST event at a hotel seems pretty idiotic. I would probably find it nice to be able to network with like-minded people since I largely lack that sort of thing in my hometown, but beyond that it's probably very ineffective at doing anything except making a few socialists feel good about themselves even as they employ stark hypocrisy. I'm not interested in feeling good about socialism; I eventually want to channel my anger and disgust into productive channels whether it's a protest or some form of community organizing. I can't do that until I fully know what I'm talking about, however. :P

I assure you that though I may look typical, my passion and interest are genuine, as is my desire to learn. ;)

:rolleyes: As a person who has written some of the articles in Socialist Worker, I can tell you that it's NOT propaganda. We almost never talk about what our specific members are doing unless we are writing a critique of the movement they are in. Almost everything that is reported is either about the economic situation in the US from a Marxist perspective or reports on actions taking place across the US and indeed the globe.

As for the conference, it's a four day event which over a thousand people attend every year, where do you suggest we host it other than a unionized hotel? Someone's house? And you'll notice as well that the price of registration is the same per day as the PSL's recently held conference. How else do you propose we pay for the tickets of Egyptian revolutionaries and other international activists? I guess you aren't aware that we DO live within Capitalism and it's kind of hard to do anything without money. You must also not be aware of the fact that ISO branches across the country hold fundraisers every year in order to subsidize the cost of attending for anyone who needs assistance.

Try not to be a dick in your first two posts, it tends to give people the wrong impression. We already have enough problems on RevLeft with bullshit sectarianism, we don't need newbies taking a lighthearted joke by a member and running with it without knowing jack shit about an organization.

@RedHal: :laugh: I skipped the Chomsky. He can write a good book, but I'm pretty sure there was this semi-important guy who once said "Philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it." Seriously Chomsky, get out yo lay-z-boy.

[Agent Ducky]

Welcome to Revleft. Have a good stay here. Revleft is a great place to start learning :), I've learned so much from the few months I've been here.

[Makaru]

Thanks for the welcome, Comrade Ducky! :)


:rolleyes: As a person who has written some of the articles in Socialist Worker, I can tell you that it's NOT propaganda. We almost never talk about what our specific members are doing unless we are writing a critique of the movement they are in. Almost everything that is reported is either about the economic situation in the US from a Marxist perspective or reports on actions taking place across the US and indeed the globe.

I meant to respond to this yesterday but got sidetracked with a long to-do list. I just want to say that you're right and I'm very sorry!! I actually got Socialist Worker mixed up with some other publication apparently, because the example I was going to use is not to be found anywhere on their website and I spent 30 minutes using Google and the site's search engine to try to find it. I stand corrected and I'll be more careful in the future before making broad claims like that. Had I found the article, I'd point out that I made an error in my post to begin with as I meant "propaganda at worst" and not "propaganda at ITS worst". Slightly different meaning, but invalid considering the facts. I really do apologize. I wish I could find the site where I saw the propaganda-ish article and I was talking about and link it; the closest thing I could find was an AFL-CIO article that seemed much like the one I found, except it was not riddled with overt socialist overtones concerning people who are very likely not socialist. Just do a Google search for 'AFL-CIO union alabama clean-up' and you should find it. I'd link but I can't yet.


As for the conference, it's a four day event which over a thousand people attend every year, where do you suggest we host it other than a unionized hotel? Someone's house? And you'll notice as well that the price of registration is the same per day as the PSL's recently held conference. How else do you propose we pay for the tickets of Egyptian revolutionaries and other international activists? I guess you aren't aware that we DO live within Capitalism and it's kind of hard to do anything without money. You must also not be aware of the fact that ISO branches across the country hold fundraisers every year in order to subsidize the cost of attending for anyone who needs assistance.I have to tell you that my understanding of the ISO conference was a little different and I did not know the part about the hotel being unionized, or the fact that the conference organizers host fundraisers to subsidize cost for those in need. It appeared, from what I read, that it was more of a group of people getting together fantasizing about how the world might be if it wasn't tainted by capitalism. That was probably an unfair leap to make, especially considering that it is self-described as revolutionary.

I also have experience in the past with volunteering for and helping the Democratic Party during elections and with Organizing for America in the year following the 2008 elections, and that has left me incredibly cynical. Any organization that participates or enables something it condemns becomes immediately suspect for me at times because of my experience with Democrats. However, you're right -- this is REALITY and no group can work outside of it. I suppose it was highly ignorant of me to carry my cynicism of a party that props up the same corporations it speaks against to a group that does not. Nor was it fair to attack the ISO conference by relying upon my past experiences with Democrats who talk of reform and then water down said reforms to the point of being ineffectual. The ISO promotes revolution, the Dems do not.


Try not to be a dick in your first two posts, it tends to give people the wrong impression. We already have enough problems on RevLeft with bullshit sectarianism, we don't need newbies taking a lighthearted joke by a member and running with it without knowing jack shit about an organization.Though my opinions were uninformed and in light of the facts, it seems dickish, I do believe I was simply stating an opinion. I found on Wikipedia that the ISO is Trotskyist in orientation - if this is true then it still doesn't mesh perfectly with my own views on how best to achieve a society free of capitalism. However, it is still a valid position and if anything, my criticisms should solely focus on that and not the organization as a whole. I think that in the end we are all concerned and worried about the same thing and that we should be unified. I will try not to contribute to that sectarianism by being more careful with what I say.

Thank you for calling me out where I was wrong.

[WeAreReborn]

Welcome comrade. Personally my first leftist text was the Conquest of Bread, which is Anarcho-Communist, so if you are interested in Anarcho-Communism I highly recommend it. As said by other members, do read the learning section and post a thread with a question when one arises. Also I agree that the Anarchist FAQ is a great source of information. So hopefully your time here will be informative and fun!

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

-SNIP-

I used to work as a paid member of the staff for the Democratic Party of Georgia, I know how you feel. However, it is simply wrong to carry over baggage from one organization, and indeed one political ideology, over to another. I'm sorry for calling you a dick, I was just a bit peeved that someone who admittedly had little experience with the left was just attacking the group I'm in from the outset.

You say that Trotskyism doesn't mesh with what you believe, you mind if I ask what you might describe yourself as? Or perhaps who you have been reading and agreeing with?

[Makaru]

I'm sorry for calling you a dick, I was just a bit peeved that someone who admittedly had little experience with the left was just attacking the group I'm in from the outset.

Quite alright and pretty understandable under the circumstances. :P


You say that Trotskyism doesn't mesh with what you believe, you mind if I ask what you might describe yourself as? Or perhaps who you have been reading and agreeing with?The libertarian socialist umbrella is sort of where I naturally fit in. I may change my mind but, to give you an idea, I've always charted at the far bottom to bottom left on political compass, where libertarian socialism fits in very well. Just a natural tendency, I suppose.

[The Man]

Welcome! I started out as an Anarchist, and I read the Anarchist FAQ (A Majority of it actually applies to a majority of Communists, including Marxist-Leninists). The Communist Manifesto is an interesting read. You might want to look at Capital as well, but that's over 3500 pages!