no country has ever been communist

[crazy comie]

Becuse they have all been dictatorships over the prolitarian and they , all that have claimed to be communist where feudilist before the revoulotion as well.

[Desert Fox]

No country can be a true communist country nor can any country be a true capitalist country. Every country will have influences of other forms like : despotisme, facism, anarchisme, etc ... So a desire for a true communist country is unlogical and will never be realised, how sad it may seem to some people ...

[Anti-Fascist]

"Becuse they have all been dicktatorships [sic]over the prolitarian . . ."

How was the USSR under Stalin a dictatorship?

[Babylon5 Crusade]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 07:42 PM
"Becuse they have all been dicktatorships [sic]over the prolitarian . . ."

How was the USSR under Stalin a dictatorship?
Oh lets see:

He was very paranoid. So he killed most of his command staff.
Killed every political enemy.
Puts millions into work camps in Siberia.
He ruled the government with an Iron fist.
He face is everywhere.
Books and songs were created for him.
Its was almost like a cult to honor and praise him.

Oh yah Stalin Reminds me of one other Dictator:

http://www.g21.net/novagrax/saddam.jpg

[Anti-Fascist]

Oh lets [sic] see:

Please.


He was very paranoid. So he killed most of his command staff.

He, a dictator, killed his command staff? You are assuming that he had absolute control to begin with. Where is the evidence that he had such power? Besides, most of the command staff was not killed, whether by Stalin the dictator or the Party.


Killed every political enemy.

There is no evidence for this.


Puts millions into work camps in Siberia.

Who put millions into work camps?


He face is everywhere.
Books and songs were created for him.

What does that have to do with it? People wanted to do that. I would have done the same thing for Stalin. Stalin was very critial of all this. He denounced it:

June 1926: "I must say in all conscience, comrades, that I do not deserve a good half of the flattering things that have been said here about me. I am, it appears, a hero of the October Revolution, the leader of the Communist Party of the Soviet, the leader of the Communist International, a legendary warrior-knight and all the rest of it. This is absurd, comrades, and quite unnecessary exaggeration. It is the sort of thing that is usually said at the graveside of a departed revolutionary. But I have no intention of dying yet. I really was, and still am, one of the pupils of the advanced workers of the Tiflis railway workshops". (J. V. Stalin: 'Works’, Volume 8; Moscow; 1954; p. 182).

August 1930: "You speak of your devotion' to me. . . I would advise you to discard the ‘principle' of devotion to persons. It is not the Bolshevik way. Be devoted to the working class, its Party, its state. That is a fine and useful thing. But do not confuse it with devotion to persons, this vain and useless bauble of weak-minded intellectuals". (J. V. Stalin: 'Works', Volume 13; Moscow; 1955; p. 20).

The "Cult of Personality" was therefore inconsistent with Stalin's expressed wishes.

I asked how Stalin was a dictator. In your answers you presupposed that he was a dictator. For instance, "He ruled the government with an Iron fist" is the same as saying, "He was a dictator." Your argument is, therefore, "He was a dictator because he was a dictator."

[elijahcraig]

Crazy commie, this has to be the STUPIDEST post I have EVER seen.

[Xvall]

I don't think it's stupid. Just sort of redundant. No communist/socialist I know claims that there has ever been a communist country. We've all agreed on this already.

[Ctisphonics]

Ok, I never thought I'd be saying this, but enough Stalin bashing! We all know the shit he put the various Soviet people through, we already know the personality cult issues, ect. He was a man, let him rest as a man. For all the wrong in a man, you need to find good. If you honestly can't find any good IN the man, find the good in other's perceptions. In the USA at one time, he was known as Uncle Joe. He was a US war ally at a time. Let this be part of our memory too.

Admittedly, he did a lot of evil things, but some good should stand with his memory, from all parts of the ideological spectrum. He was a man, this must always be remembered, don't take him as a universal, that's like judging the American system on the bases of Andrew Jackson or Abraham Lincoln alone.

John Smith too was a dictator, Cicero was a Dictator. His being a dictator is not really the thing in dispute here; what was it about his dictatorship IS. What policies or the effects of his dicatorship are we adverse too (this means everyone, not just Cappies). Let's see where we really stand on the operational level, not on a knee-jerk ideological level.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 4 2003, 12:30 AM
I don't think it's stupid. Just sort of redundant. No communist/socialist I know claims that there has ever been a communist country. We've all agreed on this already.
And there will never will, like there will never be a pure capitalist country or whatsoever. Purity is unreachable for human hands. So you will have to do with a dream for a country that is for the majority communist/socialist ;)

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by Desert Fox+Oct 4 2003, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Desert Fox @ Oct 4 2003, 06:39 PM)
Drake [email protected] 4 2003, 12:30 AM
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s stupid. Just sort of redundant. No communist/socialist I know claims that there has ever been a communist country. We&#39;ve all agreed on this already.
And there will never will, like there will never be a pure capitalist country or whatsoever. Purity is unreachable for human hands. So you will have to do with a dream for a country that is for the majority communist/socialist ;) [/b]
Oh but we can dream can&#39;t we?

And say that if we can&#39;t have perfection we can have the next best thing which (in my opinion) is anarchist-communism. Combining the best of the two. Possible and as close to perfection as we can get.

[crazy comie]

There have been pure capitalist countrys and a comunist world will come about someday.
No country has ever been in the dicktatorship of the prolitarian either.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

oh dear, this topic is very mixed up for something so simple.

No country has ever been in the dicktatorship of the prolitarian ever.
pardon?

[crazy comie]

no country has ever been in the stage of the dicktatorship of the prolitarian either.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

well thats cleared that up :huh:

[crazy comie]

were you being sarcastic

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by apathy maybe+Oct 4 2003, 12:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (apathy maybe @ Oct 4 2003, 12:15 PM)
Originally posted by Desert [email protected] 4 2003, 06:39 PM

Drake [email protected] 4 2003, 12:30 AM
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s stupid. Just sort of redundant. No communist/socialist I know claims that there has ever been a communist country. We&#39;ve all agreed on this already.
And there will never will, like there will never be a pure capitalist country or whatsoever. Purity is unreachable for human hands. So you will have to do with a dream for a country that is for the majority communist/socialist ;)
Oh but we can dream can&#39;t we?

And say that if we can&#39;t have perfection we can have the next best thing which (in my opinion) is anarchist-communism. Combining the best of the two. Possible and as close to perfection as we can get. [/b]
Well anarchy eventually leads to despotisme without any goverment the most powerfull ones will take controll and there will be one rulership. So communism won&#39;t really work with despotisme ;)

[crazy comie]

communim can work dut only with the dictatorship of the prolitarian first

[Goldfinger]

Communism is an utopic idea, meaning that it can (propably) never be fully enforced. We can, hower, base a society on the rules and ideas of Marxism, getting as close as possible.

[crazy comie]

that is most certanly true

[apathy maybe]

http://www.che-lives.com/home/modules.php?...=article&sid=11 (http://www.che-lives.com/home/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11)
This is the artical I was talking about earlier in the thread

[crazy comie]

That is a good artical.

[atlanticche]

every country that has called itself communist are NOT communist

though any country that has had a revolution has been communist for a small amount of time

after the revolution and before a new power is introduced as no one is more equal than another

[crazy comie]

true but they have been socialist not communist for a short amount of time.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by crazy [email protected] 8 2003, 04:24 PM
true
False, how do you explain France and America if thats the case, both had revolutions, and niether were remotly socialist.

Edit: corrected typo.

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 10:14 PM
Crazy commie, this has to be the STUPIDEST post I have EVER seen.
That is a fucking under statement.


____________________

every country that has called itself communist are NOT communist

though any country that has had a revolution has been communist for a small amount of time

after the revolution and before a new power is introduced as no one is more equal than another

I thought we clearly establisted that communism can only excist when the whole world is at the end of the Socialist period. Now, You&#39;re probably like most of the other general public who refers to Socialist countries as Communist.

[atlanticche]

France did

i didn&#39;t know America had a revolution but it was probebly stupid

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 05:01 PM
France did

France was communist?

[Loknar]

If Communism has never been tried by any nation they why do some of you defend those nations so vigorously? Perhaps nationalism......

[Nobody]

Loknar is back&#33;

How do you feel after your last sodomizing at this website?

PS Most of us are not from countries that tried communism, so I guess we are not nationals.

[Loknar]

No you&#39;re not nationals, but you have patriotism for them.

[atlanticche]

Originally posted by Death+Oct 8 2003, 05:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Death @ Oct 8 2003, 05:33 PM)
[email protected] 8 2003, 05:01 PM
France did

France was communist? [/b]
kind of during the revolution it was for about a month almost everyone was happy except aristocrats and so on though it was manly in Paris everyone was equal lots of people gained out of it but more important people lost out and weren&#39;t happy so it ended pretty quickly but Marx had said that it was the communist idea or something like that when it happened

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I&#39;m not in the least bit patriotic, I find the idea obserd.

[Nobody]

How can I be a "Russian Patriot" when I&#39;m Canadian?

[[email protected]]

Yes indeed you are correct&#33;No country at all has ever been really communist they have mistaken dictatorships for this great(in my opinion) ideology. I mean it takes about two brain cells to figure out that the "communist"dictators,that we know of were not at all living in equality with the masses. They instead managed to ban most things,like freedom of association and so forth. They basically fucked up the whole of Karl Marx&#39;s blue-print for mankind and have basically made it really difficult for Communism to even see the light of day ever again,because-yes good guess the dear old U.S. will be there to "rescue" the world from the oh so dreaded "Domino effect"-they&#39;re such drama fucking queens&#33; Unfortunately they have been made this way, by those who also had a great love for Marx and Vladimir Lenin.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 10:17 PM
How can I be a "Russian Patriot" when I&#39;m Canadian?
I thought Communists didn’t believe in patriotism...

[crazy comie]

The countrys wich claimed to be communist were dicktatorships of the beurocracy.

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by crazy comie+Oct 9 2003, 01:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (crazy comie @ Oct 9 2003, 01:02 PM) The countrys wich claimed to be communist were dicktatorships of the beurocracy. [/b]
The USSR claimed to be Socialist, Not Communist. Notice the SOCIALIST in Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics.


Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 10:17 PM
How can I be a "Russian Patriot" when I&#39;m Canadian?
I thought Communists didn’t believe in patriotism...

He meant, His nationality was Canadian. Not that he was a Canadian patriot.



Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 05:33 PM

[email protected] 8 2003, 05:01 PM
France did

France was communist?
kind of during the revolution it was for about a month almost everyone was happy except aristocrats and so on though it was manly in Paris everyone was equal lots of people gained out of it but more important people lost out and weren&#39;t happy so it ended pretty quickly but Marx had said that it was the communist idea or something like that when it happened

Paris Commune or French revolution? Neither made France or Paris communist. Communism only excists when we&#39;re at the end of the Socialist stage, Which would take hundreds of years IMO.

[atlanticche]

but we can never reach the communism as ive always said but parts of revolutions are the closest to communism anyone has anyone been

also Rome was close

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Loknar+Oct 8 2003, 11:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Loknar @ Oct 8 2003, 11:41 PM)
[email protected] 8 2003, 10:17 PM
How can I be a "Russian Patriot" when I&#39;m Canadian?
I thought Communists didn’t believe in patriotism... [/b]
You couldn&#39;t be more wrong. We believe in proletarian patriotism and internationalism. All communist societies have been very much patriotic, largely its a patriotism that arises from love of a socialist nation and the ideology of that nation and what it can achieve rather than traditions and so forth.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Death+Oct 8 2003, 06:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Death @ Oct 8 2003, 06:33 PM)
[email protected] 8 2003, 05:01 PM
France did

France was communist? [/b]
No but that wasnt the question, the dude said that all countries that had a revolution were communist for a little while... no because both france and the US had capitalist revolutions.

[atlanticche]

the US can have any stupid revolution they want though theres wasn&#39;t exactly a big change it was stupidity fighting stupidity
it doesn&#39;t qualify
plus Paris was socialist for a little while
Marx agrees with me

[Deniz Gezmis]

the US can have any stupid revolution they want though theres wasn&#39;t exactly a big change it was stupidity fighting stupidity
it doesn&#39;t qualify
plus Paris was socialist for a little while
Marx agrees with me

Yes, But you said Communist previously. There IS a difference.


No but that wasnt the question, the dude said that all countries that had a revolution were communist for a little while... no because both france and the US had capitalist revolutions.

The fact is, They were not. I knew that France was never Communist, I was asking him did he believe that France was Communist.

[the SovieT]

is it so hard to understand that Communism, by being the final stage of socialism, and thus the "end of story" can only happen in some centurys? (taking in consideration the time previous systems took to disapear ofcourse)..


seriously one country could NEVER be "communist" since Communism will only "happen" after not only severall years (centurys maby) of socialism wich will totally destroy capitalism and the (former in this case) rulling class....

[atlanticche]

does it really matter that much what i said previously i was just saying that its the closest any country as as ever been along with rome and cuba at one point

[crazy comie]

isn&#39;t socialism the lenninist name for what marx called the lower stage of communism or the dictatorship of the prolitarian.

[Deniz Gezmis]

This is getting tiresome. <_<

[Xprewatik RED]

The USSR was not Communism, it was a powerful nation state , which suppressed its people. Why else would my grandparents watch millions of their comrades die to Soviet Soldiers forcing a famine on us(The Black Famine of Ukraine) and why did my uncle&#39;s collecting of art(considered irrelevent by the state) almost cost him his life is modern art THAT dangerous? Is asking why after waiting in line for 30minutes for a cabage only to find it was never there, than asking why they cant supply food enough to deserve a severe yelling from a KGB officer? The Soviet Union was a class system, we the workers worked tirelessly at our jobs living in buildings that had no phones and cold dirty water year round, yet politicians had river side aparments and cars with phones in them-( we could wait on average 10 to even 30 years for a phone, a guy i know requested one in 1971 and to this day doesn&#39;t have one and cars took even longer, so can you imagine someone with enough connections to get a Car with a phone?)-. THEY were permitted trips abroad, while us even thinking of it was treasonous. Communism itself is a great idea, but it has not yet happened so get out of your dream world and do something.

[crazy comie]

good post

[atlanticche]

look my point is that the closest to communism weve ever got is disorganisation

communism has never happened and the chances of it happening are a million to one

[crazy comie]

communim will happen wo day.

[atlanticche]

it can only happen if enough people are devoted to it and united
needing a majority of the people of earth
then what will happen to the others
Kill them?

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 08:13 PM
look my point is that the closest to communism weve ever got is disorganisation

communism has never happened and the chances of it happening are a million to one
Communism is a historical inevitability. Have you read the Manifesto?

[crazy comie]

The mases will eventually see the truth

[Xprewatik RED]

How is Communism inevitable? Nothing is inevitable, nothing just happens. The masses have been slaving for eons, yet true Communism is yet to happen.

[atlanticche]

yes ive read the damn manifesto

to get enough people to even look at communism in the same light as us would be a miracle something worse than NAzi Germany and world war 2 would have to happen to make people agree with us

[crazy comie]

Xprewatik RED have you ever read the manifesto or capital becuse if you have you would realise why it hasn&#39;t come

[Xprewatik RED]

Yeah I&#39;ve read it, but not everything you read is true. If you want it to happen than you have to do it, the masses never just revolt. I had to read it in school in Russian and in English.

[crazy comie]

all you need to do is educate the mases

[FistFullOfSteel]

communism ways isnt like stalins.

[crazy comie]

that is true

[atlanticche]

Originally posted by Xprewatik [email protected] 14 2003, 08:36 PM
the masses never just revolt.
this is true they stay still and live their lives they wont do anything unless its an extreme change that really effects them in what looks to be a good way

like Hitler people only supported him as they saw a huge change for the good if they&#39;d known what Hitler was going to do they wouldn&#39;t of supported him

[crazy comie]

as i sAID IF PEPOLE WHERE EDUCATED THEY WOULD REVOLT