What's your opinions on gun control?

[DynamicOpinions]

I personally oppose registrations of guns, because i feel it gives the government or perhaps another government the ability to find who has the firearms and stop any armed resistances. One of the great things about the United States is that so many citizens have weapons, and if a government police state was set into act there would be major opposition. Of course with the amount of propaganda here in the US it would be much easier to stop many of the gun owners, but there still probably would be enough. Also, it has been observed that gun control in most places has not decreased the crime rate to a significant degree and has in fact raised the crime rate in other places. So what are your opinions???

[BuyOurEverything]

One of the great things about the United States is that so many citizens have weapons

Ya god bless America. Guns may be neccessary for an armed revolution but there's no way an armed revolution could take place in the US. Gun control is an absolute necissity for a good country. I support people's right to have guns for sport (like hunting, target shooting etc.) but people should absolutely be required to have licences and the guns should absolutely be registered. Lax gun laws just create more gun-related injury and death.


Also, it has been observed that gun control in most places has not decreased the crime rate to a significant degree and has in fact raised the crime rate in other places

I've never heard this. Please show evidence. In fact, I've heard the exact opposite.


if a government police state was set into act there would be major opposition.

Ya I'm sure the NRA would be the first ones to step up and defend people's liberties.

[DynamicOpinions]

Well as far as proof goes, I've seen most of it on TV and websites of which I can't seem to find but I did find this.
Yahoo news (AP) (http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=Gun_Control_Debate)
Although conducted by the CDC i still think it shows a bit

I don't support the NRA because i feel their goals are not my own so i tend to support the GOA (Gun Owners of America).
I hate to refer to a movie, especially one made during the 80's, but if you've seen movies like Red Dawn, you'd see that gun information gives any occupying government the abilitiy to track all the gun owners and their whereabouts and would make it quite easy to take their guns, and thus stop most revolting. I highly doubt a communist/socialist revolution would ever happen in America due to the imperialist rulers who spread so much propaganda about how bad communism is in the mass media, but I think Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia would prove how gun control causes it to be extremely easy to control the people and force them to give up their rights.

[(*]

I support registration of guns. I also believe that gun owners/potential gun owners should be required to take some kind of course, or demonstrate familiarity with handling a weapon and safety etc...

I think people should not be allowed to carry guns around either.

[RyeN]

I think people should not be allowed to carry guns around either.

Now how are you going to get your gun anywhere?
Seriously though I fully support registration of guns. Here in Canada there are very strict rules on gun control that actualy work prety good. I dont even want to go into the statistics of gun violence in USA vs Canada. Crossing the boarder to that country is like steping into a hostage situation.

you never know if your going to be the next innocent person to die.

[(*]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 02:39 AM
I think people should not be allowed to carry guns around either.

Now how are you going to get your gun anywhere?

LoL, you got me on that one.

You know what I mean though :P ...right? :unsure:

I'm sure many of you have heard Chris Rock's bit on gun control? Great stuff :lol:

[Pete]

I think that hunting rifles ect are good for a society based in the fur trade, such as Canada, but really, hand guns are made to kill people and are ridiculous. A line must be drawn somewhere.

[truthaddict11]

gun control has been proven not to work.

[RyeN]

Where?

1978-2000 – 287,052 REGISTERED FIREARMS REPORTED DEACTIVATED,
DESTROYED OR EXPORTED BY THE RCMP REGISTRAR

Since then there have been huge overhauls and improvements to the system.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Gun control means using both hands.

While I fully support registration, a safety grant (which means recieving a safe or money to buy one.)
and to have potential gun owners certified as mentally sound, I absolutely fucking hate it when reactionary clutchy-throat neo-liberals decide to ban firearms completely. (Remember Dunblane? handguns were banned despite the fact that the criminal carrying out the act was mentally unstable).
Now it is only criminals who have guns, bought in illegally. In my opinion that's a fucking joke.
If anybody holds up a bank, I believe it is every citizen's duty to fucking clip them.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I do not think citizens owning guns is the safeguard against political tyranny that it may have been 200 years ago. The difference between civilian guns and military guns has grown exponentially. Furthermore, today's military has advanced body armor not to mention armored vehicles. Hand guns and hunting rifles will not even irritate an army unit of armored, assault rifle and machine gun wielding soldiers moving behind a detachment of Abrams tanks.

[RyeN]

"If anybody holds up a bank, I believe it is every citizen's duty to fucking clip them."

I think that if some one is holdng up a bank they must be feeling frustrated because of all the presure to have money. Taking money away from the bank is a good thing and I think that it would be every citizens responsibilty to delay the police and aid the rober in a timley get away. As long as the guy desnt shoot people and just takes some money.

[Red Flag]

as long as the army navy air force marines have guns, we need to have guns.. bottom line...

as soon as the government gives me access to EVERY firearm, flame thrower, missle launcher, etc's Location and Owner that when I'll agree to register weapons.. other than that they'd have to kill me.

and the NRA tries to impose to many conservative views, that do not pertain to gun ownership, therefor i feel like they are not serving their stated purpose.

[strike any where]

anybody watch Bowling For Columbine the movie by Michael Moore. watch it, learn,and there's a part where he saw an ad in the newspaper,and went to the bank and signed up for an account,and than got a free gun from the bank. crazy...

[BuyOurEverything]

I agree with Marxist in Nebraska. There's no way people having guns will help them in the event of martial law. As for the scenario of a crime in progress and citizens needing weapons to stop it, despite the bank robbing being a bad example, it is not a good idea for everbody to pull out guns in an already tense situation. No good will come of untrained people trying to be vigilantes, all it will do is cause the criminals to start shooting and turn the situation into a blood bath. If citizens need defence, I think non-lethal options should be looked into.

[Red Flag]

yeah so we should voluntarily surrendor our firearms, while our enemies controll to make more and more.. that sounds logical

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

It's obvious that guns are used and will be used to attack people, this is rarely necessary. The majority of "legaly' aquired weapons end up in the hands of criminals anyway, just making it even more dangerous. There are far more fatalities caused by guns in nations that are strict about gun ownership than in nations that are not, like the US.

I am absolutely a revolutionary and I recongnize the need for weapons, but once a peaceful society is achieved, gun control laws should be strictly enacted. What happens in bourgeois dictatorships I can't help, because it's obviously a bourgeois dictatorship. But when communism is reached people who do not wish to own deadly firearms should not be forced to either own a tool of murder or be intimidated daily by his gun-carying neighbors.

[RyeN]

What a usless and out dated tool. we dont really need any guns. Im sure life could go on prety well without such barbaric tools. I agree that guns are a great time had by all, but the majority of the time there used for the wrong reasons. What the hell is wrong with people. Seriously wake the fuck up.

[Invader Zim]

Guns should banned, the only people who should be able to own guns should be shooting clubs, and they should never leave the premeses.

Hunting should be banned as well. It is the sport of conservatism, and come socialism it will be torn down.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Well it depends what you mean by hunting: Actually getting something to eat or bloodsports?

I have no problem with shooting or fishing. The real grate I have is when people fish for sport and not to actually eat the poor things. I also think shooters should be regularly tested for marksmanship, to ensure when they do shoot game they kill with the first shot.

I think bloodsports like foxhunting and badgerbaiting should be illegal.


as soon as the government gives me access to EVERY firearm, flame thrower, missle launcher, etc's Location and Owner that when I'll agree to register weapons.. other than that they'd have to kill me.

I agree. I do not believe any sane person should be stopped from owning any sort of weapon they can get their hands on.

[Red Flag]

some of you have never obviously left your city...

hunting and fishing should and can NEVER be banned. youd have to shoot me in head to stop me.

Hunting is regulated and controlls populations of animals.. because their natural predators have all been extinct in many occasions, except for us humans.

if you want to ban hunting and fishing, then ban all consumption of fish and meat...

at least a hunter goes into nature and kills his own food, as opposed to lazy mutha fuckers that go to the store and buy dead cow meat that was killed with an anal probe and fed hormones for growth...

sport fisherman that dont eat the fish they catch, release them back into the water and the fish swim away.. is that inhumane?? well guess what FISH ARENT HUMAN

you got to think logically, we cant all sit around eating pine needles and tree bark ... and arent we fighting for freedom anyway? who are you to tell me i cant go outside and shoot a deer?

[Dhul Fiqar]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 5 2003, 12:58 AM
Hunting is regulated and controlls populations of animals.. because their natural predators have all been extinct in many occasions, except for us humans.

lol, conveniently you did not mention the fact that the ONLY reason their natural predators are gone is because we fucking shot them all and cut down the forests they lived in! Kind of a self-fulfulling prophecy, innit, leaving us as the only ones to eat the little beasties? ;)

The fact is, left unchecked populations of native animals always seek a balance - if there are too many they starve and won't have that same problem next year.

--- G.

[Red Flag]

I didnt cut down any trees or kill any predators... so dont say we..

im a cherokee, we lived in balance with nature for thousands of years, i place the blame soley on europe.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 08:37 AM
gun control has been proven not to work.
Proven by who? The NRA? :D

But seriously, it does not work 100%, but here in the UK we have far far far less gun crime, because we have legistation.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 4 2003, 05:58 PM
some of you have never obviously left your city...

hunting and fishing should and can NEVER be banned. youd have to shoot me in head to stop me.

Hunting is regulated and controlls populations of animals.. because their natural predators have all been extinct in many occasions, except for us humans.

if you want to ban hunting and fishing, then ban all consumption of fish and meat...

at least a hunter goes into nature and kills his own food, as opposed to lazy mutha fuckers that go to the store and buy dead cow meat that was killed with an anal probe and fed hormones for growth...

sport fisherman that dont eat the fish they catch, release them back into the water and the fish swim away.. is that inhumane?? well guess what FISH ARENT HUMAN

you got to think logically, we cant all sit around eating pine needles and tree bark ... and arent we fighting for freedom anyway? who are you to tell me i cant go outside and shoot a deer?
some of you have never obviously left your city...

I live in the country.

hunting and fishing should and can NEVER be banned. youd have to shoot me in head to stop me.

I can live with that, would you like the round in the for head or the temple?

Hunting is regulated and controlls populations of animals.. because their natural predators have all been extinct in many occasions, except for us humans.


Thats bullshit.

For example with fox and dear hunting, why do they only hunt during the breading season??? Also with fox hunting, it doesnt regulate the numbers at all, only 1 in thousand foxes are killed by the hunt.

if you want to ban hunting and fishing, then ban all consumption of fish and meat...

How about... no. How about, we stop all un-nesecary deaths to animals.

at least a hunter goes into nature and kills his own food,

Ohh yes, and how many foxes and badgers have you seen eaten?

well guess what FISH ARENT HUMAN

Well guess what, if I had my way, hunters would be dehumanised, and we would hunt you, and have great fun chasing your rightwing ass through the trees.

who are you to tell me i cant go outside and shoot a deer?

Who are you to kill animals wantonly for no other purpose than to get some small amount of sadistic pleasure out of killing a defensless animal.

You fuckers make me sick to my core.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by Enigma+Oct 4 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Enigma @ Oct 4 2003, 05:41 PM)
[email protected] 3 2003, 08:37 AM
gun control has been proven not to work.

Proven by who? The NRA? :D

But seriously, it does not work 100%, but here in the UK we have far far far less gun crime, because we have legistation. [/b]
Switzerland requires most of its male citizens to own guns and has less homicides

Link (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd061099b.html)
Swiss Are Safe, Even Though Firearms Abound
Visitors to Switzerland are astonished to see guns and rifles being carried openly in public -- particularly when there is a "shooting festival" occurring nearby. In fact, Switzerland has more firepower per person than any other country in the world -- yet it is one of the safest places on Earth.

In 1997, there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country -- with firearms involved in 91 of the 189 total cases.

Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000 population and a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000.

Almost half of those crimes were committed by non-resident foreigners -- whom locals call "criminal tourists."

By comparison, Britain -- which has strict gun control laws -- had a homicide rate in 1994 of 1.4 per 100,000 and a robbery rate of 116 per 100,000.
Although Switzerland has local shooting contests for boys and girls ages 12 to 16, there have been no school massacres in the country.

All males between the ages of 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for purposes of national defense. Military historians do not doubt that this was a big reason Hitler chose to avoid Switzerland in favor of conquering countries which had strict gun control laws -- as well as registration lists which facilitated confiscation of firearms.

Source: Stephen P. Halbrook (attorney and author), "Where Kids and Guns Do Mix," Wall Street Journal, June 10, 1999.

[Invader Zim]

Switzerland, I would imagin has considerably less crime period. I expect that is because it has a far lower population desity or some other such reason... or maybe they just have better attitudes when bringing up their children.

[Red Flag]

LOL call me right wing because I believe in carying on the way humans have lived since the begaining of time... HUNTING AND GATHERING

If you eat a hamburger ever in your life, you support hunting. an animal is killed for your consumption. guess you never ate a fish either... how bout chicken?? guess they grow pork chops on trees..

lets all eat radish leave and drink cactus milk.. you fucking eurotrash hipster..

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 4 2003, 11:15 PM
LOL call me right wing because I believe in carying on the way humans have lived since the begaining of time... HUNTING AND GATHERING

If you eat a hamburger ever in your life, you support hunting. an animal is killed for your consumption. guess you never ate a fish either... how bout chicken?? guess they grow pork chops on trees..

lets all eat radish leave and drink cactus milk.. you fucking eurotrash hipster..
LOL call me right wing because I believe in carying on the way humans have lived since the begaining of time... HUNTING AND GATHERING

Ohh yes, lets all go and tear down civilisation and go back to living in caves and mud shacks, since thats what humans have done since the beggining of time. No you dont hunt for food, you hunt for sick enjoyment, you participate in the sport of the Upperclass aristocracy.

Idiot.

If you eat a hamburger ever in your life, you support hunting. an animal is killed for your consumption.

Thats not hunting dumb ass, it is breed and prodused, and while we are on the subject, we can get rid of factory farming.

guess you never ate a fish either... how bout chicken?? guess they grow pork chops on trees..

No they dont grow pork chops from tree&#39;s but, come the revolution hopefully they will hang right wingers like you from trees.

you fucking eurotrash hipster..

So your a xenophobe as well as a rightwinger? Hate europeans do you? Try ***************, or protestwarrior.com im sure they will welcome you with open arms.

[Invader Zim]

http://americanhistory.si.edu/archives/images/d530mh18.jpg

Talliho Mi&#39;lord, have fun needlessly killing and tourturing an animal which has never harmed you.

[crazy comie]

Ban all guns except hunting rifles

[Red Flag]

Your right I do hate europeans seeing as how they raped and pillaged my peoples land.

I have never been rich or upper class in my life. Shooting a deer for meet is MUCH MUCH cheeper than buying beef and it&#39;s more healthy, so dont tell me why I hunt, you have no idea...

I guess Che was a right winger too.. lol.. people like you are coffee shop revolutionaries.. you couldnt kill someone to save your life, and im sure you wouldnt want to.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafet.../statistics.htm (http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm)

http://www.comotionmakers.org/gunviolence.html

I&#39;ve read in many places that gun violence in America is far higher than other places in respect to the population difference. These statistics don&#39;t quite show that, but it shows some of the unnecessary consequences of America&#39;s openess toward guns.

[RyeN]

I wanted some steak the other night. I didnt get all dresses up in hunting garb and sneek to some farmer field and shoot a cow. I just went to the grocerey store. Humans have evolved far enough that if we stoped senslessly killing animals im sure thier populations wouldnt overpower us and take over our contry. Guns used as weapons are for the weak of mind who cant make thier points straight without some sort of violence. Im sure that I could kill a person if my life depended upon it but Id much rather my life didnt depend on it eh&#33; Throw away your guns and read a book

[Red Flag]

Id rather read a book with my 45 in my waste line. Like i said, when my enemy destroys all of his weapons ill destroy mine...

If your not willing to use ALL MEANS to get free, don&#39;t talk about revolution...

Picket Signs and Pamphlets won&#39;t get anyone free.

[truthaddict11]

Labor groups in the past such as the IWW have encouraged gun ownership as a way for self defense, realize it was only a century ago when communists/anarchists/labor activists were being murdered in the streets. I have to agree with Red Flag that as soon as we destroy our oppressors then we should look to gun control. banning guns right now is very dangerous.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 5 2003, 07:39 PM
Your right I do hate europeans seeing as how they raped and pillaged my peoples land.

I have never been rich or upper class in my life. Shooting a deer for meet is MUCH MUCH cheeper than buying beef and it&#39;s more healthy, so dont tell me why I hunt, you have no idea...

I guess Che was a right winger too.. lol.. people like you are coffee shop revolutionaries.. you couldnt kill someone to save your life, and im sure you wouldnt want to.
Your right I do hate europeans seeing as how they raped and pillaged my peoples land.

And what land of yours did any living european rape and pillage? You know the Romans Raped and pillaged my land, but I dont hate Italians.

Somebody cage this xenophobe.

I have never been rich or upper class in my life.

Rich enough to have a computer and the net? Rich enough own a rifle? Yes sure, im already going to fill in my oxfam donation and mail it to your door.

Shooting a deer for meet is MUCH MUCH cheeper than buying beef and it&#39;s more healthy, so dont tell me why I hunt, you have no idea...

...Or more likley you get a buzz from shooting a defencless animal because you dont have balls to shoot a human, because you a fucking whiney ass pussy, who was either given to many beetings from your parents... or not enough.

people like you are coffee shop revolutionaries..

Im not a revolutionary at all you dumb fuck.

you couldnt kill someone to save your life,

I would rather lose my life than become a murdering piece of shit.

Someone cage this ass hole.

[Red Flag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 10:56 PM
Labor groups in the past such as the IWW have encouraged gun ownership as a way for self defense, realize it was only a century ago when communists/anarchists/labor activists were being murdered in the streets. I have to agree with Red Flag that as soon as we destroy our oppressors then we should look to gun control. banning guns right now is very dangerous.
Thank You Comrade

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 05:56 PM
Labor groups in the past such as the IWW have encouraged gun ownership as a way for self defense, realize it was only a century ago when communists/anarchists/labor activists were being murdered in the streets. I have to agree with Red Flag that as soon as we destroy our oppressors then we should look to gun control. banning guns right now is very dangerous.
With this I agree, but you did say that gun control doesn&#39;t work. My point is that it does, but apparently you seem to have come around. :) Good to see.

[truthaddict11]

i havent "come around" i said that once capitalism is crushed that gun control could be an option but currently in a capitalist world it is not.

[Red Flag]

the thing about gun controll thats funny... you make it impossible for people to get guns legally... guess what, criminals dont get their guns legally now.. so what happens is law abiding citizens cant get guns, but criminals continue to get them.. sounds good right?

it will work about as good as prohabition did.. :rolleyes:

[truthaddict11]

it will work about as good as prohabition did..

:lol: probally, during prohibition people drank more


perhaps if guns stay legal gun violence would probally go down too.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 07:01 PM
i havent "come around" i said that once capitalism is crushed that gun control could be an option but currently in a capitalist world it is not.
There are many places on the internet that shows that America&#39;s openness towards guns has a clear connection to the fact that gun violence is highest here than anywhere else, in respect to their populations. I coudn&#39;t find these exact statistics, but I found some stuff that shows the unnecessarily high violence rates in the US.

Most guns aquired legaly end up in the hands of the criminals anyway. People should not be forced to live where everyone has a fucking gun&#33; Giving people more guns to control themselves form too many guns is the stupidest solution imaginable. Criminals will have a much harder time getting guns if they&#39;re not readily available legaly.

[Red Flag]

have you ever heard of the black market??

the reason violence is so high, is because of teh crushing force of capitalism that puts people in the kill or be killed mentality... if you live in the US and dont have money you&#39;re made by society to feel like less than nothing.

[BuyOurEverything]

Anyone that thinks all hunters are upper class right wingers is a fool. You can go to the grocery store and buy your meat in a nice little package and feel good that you didn&#39;t kill animal but don&#39;t try and tell me you&#39;re somehow morally superior. I agree that hunting just for sport is barbaric and should be banned but unless you&#39;re going to make meat illegal, you can&#39;t ban hunting. I know many people that hunt for meat. They go out and shoot a moose, then bring it home and freeze it and it will last the whole winter. How is that any more barbaric than going to the store and buying a bunch of meat?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 4 2003, 04:58 PM
sport fisherman that dont eat the fish they catch, release them back into the water and the fish swim away.. is that inhumane?? well guess what FISH ARENT HUMAN

I&#39;m not thinking about the pain they suffer, but about the waste caused by this ridiculous sport.
You catch the fish with hooks, no? When a fish bites the line their mouthparts get speared by the hook, causing an injury. When you release this injured fish into river or sea water, their wound is likely to become infected and they will die from this infection. A fish gone to waste.

I want to make myself clear here: I am all in favor of hunting and fishing to gain food.

It&#39;s when people hunt for the sake of it and don&#39;t take anything home that pisses me off.

Banning guns will only put guns in the hands of the criminals. Most criminals, at least in the UK, end up getting their guns from corrupt post Communist bloc eastern european countries.
If people who own guns were made to put theirs in a safe or keep it at gun club/firing range, you would have less criminals using stolen weapons. You don&#39;t hear of many british criminals using stolen L98A1 Cadet General Purpose rifles now do you?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 6 2003, 01:04 AM
the thing about gun controll thats funny... you make it impossible for people to get guns legally... guess what, criminals dont get their guns legally now.. so what happens is law abiding citizens cant get guns, but criminals continue to get them.. sounds good right?

it will work about as good as prohabition did.. :rolleyes:
Apart from it works in other countries... xenophobic dumbass.

[FistFullOfSteel]

im a swede,and sweden are not in EMU.

[Red Flag]

Originally posted by NoXion+Oct 6 2003, 06:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NoXion @ Oct 6 2003, 06:06 AM)
Red [email protected] 4 2003, 04:58 PM
sport fisherman that dont eat the fish they catch, release them back into the water and the fish swim away.. is that inhumane?? well guess what FISH ARENT HUMAN

I&#39;m not thinking about the pain they suffer, but about the waste caused by this ridiculous sport.
You catch the fish with hooks, no? When a fish bites the line their mouthparts get speared by the hook, causing an injury. When you release this injured fish into river or sea water, their wound is likely to become infected and they will die from this infection. A fish gone to waste.

I want to make myself clear here: I am all in favor of hunting and fishing to gain food.

It&#39;s when people hunt for the sake of it and don&#39;t take anything home that pisses me off.

Banning guns will only put guns in the hands of the criminals. Most criminals, at least in the UK, end up getting their guns from corrupt post Communist bloc eastern european countries.
If people who own guns were made to put theirs in a safe or keep it at gun club/firing range, you would have less criminals using stolen weapons. You don&#39;t hear of many british criminals using stolen L98A1 Cadet General Purpose rifles now do you? [/b]
Released fish dont die... your trying to humanize an animal.. hooks do not leave &#39;wounds&#39; they leave small pin holes.. fish have scales, not skin.. its been proven many times over that released fish dont die..

the kind of &#39;infections&#39; that fish get arent from exposed wounds like us.. they are mainly caused by parasites like anchor worms, etc.

[Red Flag]

and someone please show me stats that prove that banning guns has EVER worked ANYWHERE

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 6 2003, 03:35 PM
and someone please show me stats that prove that banning guns has EVER worked ANYWHERE
Ok then if you want stats, I will give you stats xenophobe

Population of USA: - 292,264,874

Population of UK: - 59,030,600

An approximate of 4.95 so we call it 5. The US has a population 5 times the sixe of the UK&#39;s, so the UK gun crime should therefor be about 5 times less than US.

US Gun crime = 353,880

UK Gun crime = 10,000

US has 35.388 more gun crime than UK.

This shows us that in reallity the US has 35 times more gun crime than the UK, not 5 times more.


My sources: -

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/01/week_..._2/9_crime.html (http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/01/week_2/9_crime.html)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=6


So dont use that "gun control dosnt work" bullshit. Because you can clearly see it does.

[truthaddict11]

Gun Control Laws Have Not Stopped Crime in Britian (http://www.ncpa.org/iss/cri/2001/pd080801g.html)

"Brady Law" had no affect on homicide rates (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd080200b.html)

Studies Prove Gun Control Doesnt Reduce Crime (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm43.html)

Real Facts On Guns and Crime (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd080400a.html)

Registration Has Had Little Impact on Crime (http://www.ncpa.org/iss/cri/2002/pd040102f.html)

[Red Flag]

Once again Comrade Truth reads my mind

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 05:07 PM
Gun Control Laws Have Not Stopped Crime in Britian (http://www.ncpa.org/iss/cri/2001/pd080801g.html)

"Brady Law" had no affect on homicide rates (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd080200b.html)

Studies Prove Gun Control Doesnt Reduce Crime (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm43.html)

Real Facts On Guns and Crime (http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd080400a.html)

Registration Has Had Little Impact on Crime (http://www.ncpa.org/iss/cri/2002/pd040102f.html)
Source 1: -

I nevrr said that it stopped all gun crime, but 35 times more in the US, proves it has a drastic effect.

Source 2: - As the guns are already in circulation and still easily available from the shops, of course its not going to change anything.

Source 3: - Makes a convising argument, but again the 35 times more than UK, kind of proves it wrong.

Source 4: Same as source 2.

Its also rather intereting that you take all your sources from the same source. Its all www.ncpa.org/, and by the vast amount of pro gun material they have, it shows that it is just another gun lobby site.

But my turn now

http://www.dailyillini.com/oct02/oct11/opi.../letter03.shtml (http://www.dailyillini.com/oct02/oct11/opinions/stories/letter03.shtml)

http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/90/147/04_4_m.html

The very best gun control site on the web (http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Republican_Party_Gun_Control.htm)

[truthaddict11]

your sites prove nothing its the same anti gun rhetoric again while gun ownership has increased almost 50% over the past 30 years and crime and homicide has gone down.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 06:17 PM
your sites prove nothing its the same anti gun rhetoric again while gun ownership has increased almost 50% over the past 30 years and crime and homicide has gone down.
But you still have 35 times more gun crime than the UK, which speaks volumes about your arguments im afraid.

So if gun control makes no differance please explain to me why Britian has 30 times less gun crime?

[truthaddict11]

edit got my facts wronmg will post again later

[Red Flag]

UK&#39;s crime MUCH MUCH less than the US BEFORE THE GUN CONTROLL LAWS AS WELL.. so your argument has no vailidty im afraid

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 6 2003, 07:35 PM
UK&#39;s crime MUCH MUCH less than the US BEFORE THE GUN CONTROLL LAWS AS WELL.. so your argument has no vailidty im afraid
And you want to provide a source to show that?

[Red Flag]

UK Handgun Homicide Stats:

1980 - 7
1988 - 35
1993 - 39
1997 - 42
According to the PRO GUN CONTROLL Site http://www.gun-control-network.org


UK Violent Crime Stats:

April 1995 - March 1996: 319,675 Total Violent Crimes
April 1999 - March 2000: 703,105 Total Violent Crimes

from the non biased http://www.police999.com/stats/crime2000-01.html


So that shows that crime Did not decrease, and infact INCREASED..



Now to my argument that the UK has ALWAYS has less violent crime than the US:

UK Violent Crimes For April 95-March 96: 319,675 (Roughly 520.0 Per 100,00 Residents)

US Violent Crimes For 1995: 1,798,790 (684.5 Per 100,000 Residents)

So this tells us that the US has ALWAYS had more violent crime then the UK.

[Ref.: http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.more....ukpoptable.html (http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.more.ukpoptable.html) - http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

-MORE-

For 1987-96, the average US firearm homicide rate was 5.7 per 100,000

The average German firearm homicide rate was 3.37 homicides per 100,000

The average UK firearm homicide rate was roughly 1 homicide per 100,000

The US Has always had a higher rate of homicide by firearm, most likely because of the more violent nature of the people.

Ref.: http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/research/othe...nus/default.asp (http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/research/other_docs/factsheets/canus/default.asp) - http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/...nion/6488.shtml (http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2002/11/26/opinion/6488.shtml)

----------

[Invader Zim]

Well your statistics are interesting, but how about this then: -

5,301,185 crimes reported in the year 2000 In UK

21,929,702 crimes reported in the year 2000 In USA

That means that the USA has 4.136 times more crime than the UK.

As established already the population differance is approximatly 5 times less in the UK than USA.

Not the 35 times more which we should be expecting, if the US has so many more criminals...

So that shows that crime Did not decrease, and infact INCREASED..

I know violant crime is on the increase in the UK, I live here. But that is immaterial.

So this tells us that the US has ALWAYS had more violent crime then the UK.


According to your own statistics (I just converted it to persentages for convinience.)

UK 0.52% per 100,000 people (you put it as per 100,00, but I assume it was a typo, because the US figure was per 100,000)

US 0.68% per 100,000 people.

Can you see a 35 times differance which is what would be needed to null my results... no you can clearly see it is only about a 1.3 times differance.

For 1987-96, the average US firearm homicide rate was 5.7 per 100,000

The average German firearm homicide rate was 3.37 homicides per 100,000

The average UK firearm homicide rate was roughly 1 homicide per 100,000

The US Has always had a higher rate of homicide by firearm, most likely because of the more violent nature of the people.

Or maybe its because American criminals have more guns, because they dont have legislation?

[Red Flag]

those stats are from BEFORE your country banned guns

[commieboy]

i agree with who ever used red dawn as an example...even though they made the soviets and cubans seem evil...but if the government controls the guns...there&#39;s nothing to control the government..

i like guns, i have guns and i use guns....all have been purchased legally and are safely locked up....now what pisses me off is when some "P.I.M.P." is carrying a stolen pistol and ends up shooting someone and then they accuse the hunters and GOW (Gun Owners of America) of it being our fault.....but i think there should be restrictions like there are in the U&#036;

[RyeN]

What do you like about your guns comrade? How do they make you feel, and how would you feel without them?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 7 2003, 12:49 AM
those stats are from BEFORE your country banned guns
what the year 2000? My country has banned firearms without a licence sinse before I was born, infact before my mother was born... so I doubt it.

[commieboy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 05:25 AM
What do you like about your guns comrade? How do they make you feel, and how would you feel without them?
i dont feel in power with my guns like those columbine pricks...i think they&#39;re a good deterant from me like doing drugs, and getting into trouble..i&#39;d be pissed if i didn&#39;t have them because i paid for them...


My guns have history....and alot of it leftist....most of them are old Military surplus rifles from back in the day....like i mean bolt actions. But the one thing that may be special about them is that they may have been used to defend communism....or fight fascists....both are cool....

but i could do without my guns...though i&#39;d never wish to

[truthaddict11]

crime has been on a decline in the united states since before anti gun legislation was enacted.

[Dhul Fiqar]

I doubt availability of guns has much of an impact on numbers of crimes - it does however increase the likelyhood of a fatal outcome from crime-related confrontations. Where I come from people beat each other up for shorting them on drug deals - in America pulling a gun for a similar infraction is logical because they are the best weapon available (and easily available at that).

I am sure if there were easily available guns in Iceland several of my friends would have been shot in the past few years - instead they got the shit kicked out of them a couple of times. Makes all the difference to them at the moment, I must say :)

--- G.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by Dhul [email protected] 7 2003, 06:47 AM
I doubt availability of guns has much of an impact on numbers of crimes - it does however increase the likelyhood of a fatal outcome from crime-related [...]
That is what has been expressed by the more reliable statistics I have seen...