Racist Psychology Today Says "Black Women Are Ugly"

[Rakhmetov]

Boycott this racist, misogynist, eugenics-sponsoring bullshit magazine and throw it in the garbage. Enough already with this racism bullshit! Where does this magazine get its research from??? We're living in the 21st Century... If Black women are so ugly why did the slaveowners used to rape black female slaves???? Thomas Jefferson & Sally Hemmings???? Jesse Helms, another racist congressman purportedly seduced his servant and fathered a child with her. etc. etc.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201105/why-are-black-women-less-physically-attractive-other-women&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/19/granderson.black.women/index.html?hpt=C2

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1003&bih=587&q=psychology+today+black+women+ugly&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

[RadioRaheem84]

The only reason why this idiotic question was posed is because our euro-centric society presumes that caucasian features are more attractive. One doesn't have to be fair skinned, but as long as they posses physical features (thin lips, narrow nose, lighter skin) that resemble that of caucasian they're considered beautiful.

Notice that further down in the article, the author says that black women considers themselves to be more attractive than other women of color. The author touts that as a rather subjective observation but proceeds to defend his own racist drivel about black women being less attractive as objective truth. When black people consider themselves beautiful, it's subjective nonsense, but the opposite of that opinion is fact.


This is eugenics, plain and simple.

[Rafiq]

Meh, majority of what we consider beautiful and ugly is based on the mainstream accepted view of what qualifies as either of those things.

What is actual beauty? I don't know, I don't even know what the hell that means.

[Quail]

This article is such bullshit. Femininity has nothing to do with attractiveness (as the last paragraph says) and I'm pretty sure the author has a racist agenda.

[manic expression]

The author, Satoshi Kanazawa, is just mad because as an Asian man, he obviously has a really, really small penis. I'm talking tiny.

Oh wait, hold on...cheap stereotypes are fucking stupid. See how that works?

[RedSunRising]

This article is such bullshit. Femininity has nothing to do with attractiveness (as the last paragraph says) and I'm pretty sure the author has a racist agenda.

It does if you are a closet male supremacist. "Femininity" in their eyes is about being their ideal of what a female should be i.e. pretty, meek and basically weak. Ive seen men suddenly be turned off women they thought were "feminine" by discovering an "aggressive" (meaning self assertive) streak.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

what a load of fucking racist bullshit.

[MaximMK]

Human stupidity has no end.

[Sir Comradical]

Boycott this racist, misogynist, eugenics-sponsoring bullshit magazine and throw it in the garbage. Enough already with this racism bullshit! Where does this magazine get its research from??? We're living in the 21st Century... If Black women are so ugly why did the slaveowners used to rape black female slaves???? Thomas Jefferson & Sally Hemmings???? Jesse Helms, another racist congressman purportedly seduced his servant and fathered a child with her. etc. etc.

Not that I disagree with you, but for rapists, it's pathological and related more to control, domination and humiliation.

[Per Levy]

It is very interesting to note that, even though black women are objectively less physically attractive than other women, black women (and men) subjectively consider themselves to be far more physically attractive than others.

wow, what a racist ass. people liek this make me mad. more from Satoshi Kanazawa:


Kanazawa's theories on race and intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence) are controversial. Kanazawa has argued that Asian cultural traditions and/or character inhibit Asian scientific creativity[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-12) and that "political correctness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness)" is a bigger threat to American evolutionary psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology) than religious fundamentalism.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-13) He has been accused of promoting "racist stereotypes".[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-14) In 2006 Kanazawa published a controversial paper suggesting that poor health of people in some nations is the result, not of poverty, but rather lower IQ.


A March 6th, 2008 Psychology today blog post written by Kanazawa suggested that the reason why the US is not winning the global war on terror is because we don't have enough hate. Kanazawa stated that if Ann Coulter was president, she would have bombed 35 Muslim cities on September 12th, 2001 and that the war on terror would have been over on September 13th, 2001 with no american lives lost. Kanazawa concludes the article stating, "Yes, we need a woman in the White House, but not the one who’s running." [20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-19) A January 10, 2010 blog post by the same author entitled "What's Wrong With Muslims?" asserts that "most Muslims speak the same language – Arabic" despite the fact that only 12% of the world's Muslim population is indeed Arab. He also asserts that 30% of Muslims are ready Suicide Bombers. [21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-20)


A May 2011 Psychology Today blog post written by Kanazawa asserted that Black women were less attractive and intelligent than women from other racial groups. [22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-21) This article was based on the opinions reported by survey takers in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Longitudinal_Study_of_Adolescent_Health) ("Add Health"), which Kanazawa claimed could be used as "objective" measures of attractiveness. The article was subsequently removed from the Psychology Today site without explanation or editorial accountability, though Kaja Perina, Psychology Today Editor in Chief, stated that "[Psychology Today reserves] the right to remove posts for any number of reasons."[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-22) The article was condemned by various figures including fellow Psychology Today blogger Mikhail Lyubansky, London School of Economics professor Paul Gilroy, and UMM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Minnesota_Morris) professor Paul Myers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZ_Myers) as being pseudoscientific and harmful to marginalized groups. [24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-23) [25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-24)
On May 18, 2011, the University of London Union Senate, the Union’s legislative body representing over 120,000 students, voted unanimously in favor of calling for a campaign for Kanazawa's dismissal. The reasons stated for this call for dismissal include "flawed research" and "unscientific bigotry."[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-25)[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa#cite_note-26)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

so a really "nice" guy, seriously this site needs a vomit smiley

[Lumpen Bourgeois]

Well, this can't be right. I thought racism was officially over after Obama was elected?





Anyway, compared to what Kanazawa has said about Blacks and their average IQ levels(and no, he didn't marvel about how high he thought they were, guess again), these new "scientific" claims of his seem somewhat more tame.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Psychology Today had already taken off Satoshi's racist, piece of shit study from their page. As a PhD. student under psychology, I was absolutely disgusted the day it was released. I was hoping they'd take it down, given the lack of real psychological science behind the study, and replace it with something a bit more credible.

It appears that my wishes came true. Here's what Psychology Today placed as its replacement:


Beauty May Be In Eye of Beholder But Eyes See What Culture Socializes
by Mikhail Lyubansky, Ph.D.
May 16, 2011

If you poll the masses, make sure you know who they are.

I just conducted a study that found Black women are more attractive than women from other racial/ethnic groups. I polled myself, 3 different times over 5 hrs. The results are statistically significant and show strong test-rest reliability. I have pretty charts that summarize the data.

Not convinced?

Of course, you’re not. My opinion doesn’t represent anyone other than me, no matter how many times I decide to poll myself (and for the record, I don’t think women from any racial group are any more attractive than women from any other)

Obvious?

Perhaps! But fellow Psychology Today blogger Sutoshi Kanazawa doesn’t seem to think so.

In case you missed it, Kanazawa, in his most recent PT post (which has been removed from the site) Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women? reported that


…women of all races are on average more physically attractive than the “average” Add Health respondent, except for black women. As the following graph shows, black women are statistically no different from the “average” Add Health respondent, and far less attractive than white, Asian, and Native American women. (read full post here)

Here’s the pretty chart:

http://rsrc.psychologytoday.com/files/imagecache/article-inline-full/blogs/33955/2011/05/64084-54437.jpg

But it gets worse:

This difference (in what he calls “objective” attractiveness) is not, he explains, “due to race differences in intelligence.”

So, basically, Kanazawa would have us know, Black women are more ugly and more dumb than women from other racial groups.

The evidence?

Kanazawa reported that


Add Health measures the physical attractiveness of its respondents both objectively and subjectively. At the end of each interview, the interviewer rates the physical attractiveness of the respondent objectively on the following five-point scale: 1 = very unattractive, 2 = unattractive, 3 = about average, 4 = attractive, 5 = very attractive. The physical attractiveness of each Add Health respondent is measured three times by three different interviewers over seven years.

It sounds scientific. And it is possible that it is, but Kanazawa doesn’t give us enough information to know, and when necessary information is missing, I tend to think the author is trying to hide something.

Who are the Add Health respondents, racially speaking? And who are the interviewers? And why is there no discussion of the racial Zeitgeist in which the “study” took place?

In a different “study”, this might not matter. Here, it is of crucial importance.

Kanazawa’s claims aside, there is no single “objective” standard of beauty. We all know, for example, that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Yet, even this folk wisdom is incomplete. Sure, there are individual differences. I don’t think for a moment that Kanazawa would deny this.

The point is that there are also group differences, not in attractiveness (as Kanazawa claims), but in cultural messages about what is and is not attractive. Standards of beauty, like most other beliefs, are socialized and change not only from place to place but also over time. In both the United States and England, (where Kanazawa lives and works), standards of beauty are essentially “White” standards, because whites comprise the majority of the population and have disproportional control over both media and fashion. And while it is not just White respondents who are socialized this way (internalized racism has been well documented), it is certainly the case that White Americans and Europeans (who are less likely to have received more positive messages about Black beauty) would show the strongest anti-Black bias.

As long as this is understood and framed accordingly, there is no problem with the data Kanazawa reports. What they show is that because Black faces and bodies don’t fit mainstream White standards of physical attractiveness, both respondents and interviewers show an anti-Black bias. Unfortunately, Kanazawa fails to consider either sample bias or socializing effects. Even if he believes, as he apparently does, that human behavior is entirely “evolutionary”, good science requires a careful analysis of sample bias and an explicit discussion regarding the study’s generalizability. Without this kind of methodological analysis, Kanazawa’s entire premise — that there is such a thing as a single objective standard of attractiveness — is fatally (and tragically) flawed.

It is worth noting that Kanazawa repeats this same flaw of omission when he explains that the attractiveness results are not due to race group differences in intelligence, as though there are no scholarly critiques of IQ measures in general and their racial bias in particular.

These are not trivial omisisions. They are the necessary context that gives readers the information they need to draw their own conclusions.

Those who have been following the story will know that Kanazawa’s original PT post sparked an outrage on Twitter. I was part of the outraged. I think it was well deserved. At the same time, as both a blogger and a scientist, I don’t want the content of either my research or my writing to be decided by popular vote. I value academic freedom, as well as my freedom of speech, and would never advocate for the restriction of either. The editors of Psychology Today removed Kanazawa’s post, and they were right to do so, not because Kanazawa voiced an unpopular opinion, but because he failed to support his unpopular opinion with sufficient evidence and provide it with the necessary context.

Was Kanazawa held up to a higher standard that other bloggers? Was this post singled out for special treatment? These are questions that only the editors can answer, but I’d guess that this post was, in fact, singled out, and deservedly so!

Extraordinary claims (especially those that hurt and damage marginalized groups) require extraordinary evidence and editorial oversight. This isn’t censorship — no one is disputing Kanazawa’s right to publish this on his own site — It’s socially responsible publishing and editing and I’m proud to write for a publication that recognizes this.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/between-the-lines/201105/beauty-may-be-in-eye-beholder-eyes-see-what-culture-socializes

[-marx-]

I saw a documentary recently where beautiful Asian and African-American women were butchering themselves with plastic surgery to look more white because they bought the hype that a specific "race" is more attractive.

Beauty is a personal (Hence, subjective) thing and a guy/girl who finds another attractive may well find others find them ugly as all as fuck. "Race" has zero to do with it.

My last G/F was black (Brazilian) and gorgeous. We would never have split up had it been easier to stay together in either country.

The eugenicists will be dealt with accordingly during any revolution that takes place in my country so I'm not concerned with them that much, neither is anyone I know in real life.

[brigadista]

there is action for his dismissal [rightly so] the man is an idiot

http://www.lsesu.com/news/article/6001/417/

ULU unanimously calls for Kanazawa’s dismissal

Today 18 May 2011, the University of London Union Senate, the Union’s legislative body representing over 120,000 students, voted unanimously in favour of calling for a campaign for the dismissal of evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa, Reader in Management at the LSE, and to condemn his poor research.

Kanazawa published an article on Psychology Today on Monday 16 May 2011 called “Why black women are less attractive than any other women". Previous articles by Kanazawa include “Are All Women Essentially Prostitutes?” and “What’s Wrong with Muslims?” which estimates there to be “120 million potential suicide bombers worldwide”.

Sherelle Davids, anti-racism officer-elect of the LSE Students’ Union says: “Kanazawa deliberately manipulates findings that justify racist ideology. As a Black woman I feel his conclusions are a direct attack on Black women everywhere who are not included in social ideas of beauty.”

Amena Amer, incoming LSESU Education Officer comments “We support free speech and academic freedom, but Kanazawa’s research fuels hate against ethnic and religious minorities promoted by neo-Nazi groups. Not only does he use LSE’s credentials to legitimise his ‘research’ but this jeopardises the academic credibility of the LSE.”

“The academic community has widely condemned Kanazawa’s flawed research and there should be no place for his unscientific bigotry at the LSE. Students stand united against his disgraceful conclusions and will not let this negatively impact good campus relations” says Community and Welfare Officer-elect Lukas Slothuus.

The Students’ Union welcomes the unanimous ULU decision to campaign for the dismissal of Kanazawa

[TC]

If Black women are so ugly why did the slaveowners used to rape black female slaves???? Thomas Jefferson & Sally Hemmings???? Jesse Helms, another racist congressman purportedly seduced his servant and fathered a child with her. etc. etc.


You are responding to a racist article with the most racially insensitive/racist faux-counter-examples you can possibly think of?

[Jazzratt]

You are responding to a racist article with the most racially insensitive/racist faux-counter-examples you can possibly think of? Quite.

Rakhmetov I don't know if your comments are worth an infraction, so I'll let another mod or admin use their discretion there. You certainly do deserve some sort of administrative censure for that, rather disgusting display of borderline/latent/whatever racism - so consider this a verbal warning (pending decision by other team members.)

[MattShizzle]

Well, I won't renew no matter what now. My degree is in Psych and I had let my subscription go when I was really short on money, but after this forget them.

[Tim Finnegan]

Kanazawa published an article on Psychology Today on Monday 16 May 2011 called “Why black women are less attractive than any other women". Previous articles by Kanazawa include “Are All Women Essentially Prostitutes?” and “What’s Wrong with Muslims?” which estimates there to be “120 million potential suicide bombers worldwide”.
This guy sounds lilke a Brass Eye character whose somehow slipped through into our reality. :confused:

[FreeFocus]

This is some fucked up shit. It might be one thing to show these findings and then offer a critique of racist social norms, but this fucking guy takes it as objective fact. Bullshit.

Also, Rakhmetov's comment about Jefferson and Hemmings was, of course, out of line, but I don't think he meant to give credence to racism or anything. I think he was trying to undercut the argument of a racist by taking one of their own ranks and showing how their behavior contradicted their own prejudiced beliefs.

[progressive_lefty]

My last G/F was black (Brazilian) and gorgeous. We would never have split up had it been easier to stay together in either country.

I also dated a black Brazillian girl and she was amazing - she was quite successful in her career as a lawyer and constantly receives big offers from different firms to work for them. We also had some problems with the distance when I left Brazil, so we transitioned from dating to friends. All I can say this Psychologist is an idiot. I was also brought up with racial stereotypes by living in a small country town. The most shocking thing to me is when you realise they're not true. People say the most insulting and vilifying things about Asian and Blacks, but once you become familiar with a lot of Asian and Black people, you realise their no different to the rest of society. I know I was brought up with the idea that 'Asian women are easy' or that they 'desperately want a white man to show them how inferior they are' or some other trash. I never realised how extremely hurtful that was until I moved to a big city and met a lot of Asian people. I hate racial stereotypes, and I hate people that say 'the thing about racial stereotypes is that, there's always a bit of truth in them' - rubbish.

[pranabjyoti]

Mr. Kanazawa is probably from Japanese origin (I guessed from his name) and most probably he is hearing the seeds of Asian feudal tradition in him. All over Asia, "fair" white skin is must component of (women"s) beauty and that's nothing but an expression of feudal mentality.
In feudalism, white skin is considered to be beautiful because that means the human being can stay longer at home and have to do little physical work outside in the sun, which makes skin darker. In India, both in popular cinema and other forms of entertainment, "fair skin" women are always the first preferred. An average Indian isn't much brighter than an average black African, but those who have the habit the watching popular Indian cinema (Bollywood films) just certainly can notice that the man characters of the films are very fair and that's the prime condition to be a hero/heroine of a popular Indian (Bollywood film) film.
Though Japan is a well established capitalist country, but most probably Japanese people are still nurturing feudal ideas at the deep of their psycho.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Kanazawa published an article on Psychology Today on Monday 16 May 2011 called “Why black women are less attractive than any other women". Previous articles by Kanazawa include “Are All Women Essentially Prostitutes?” and “What’s Wrong with Muslims?” which estimates there to be “120 million potential suicide bombers worldwide”.

i'm absolutely shocked that a real charmer who once titled an article "Are All Women Essentially Prostitutes?" would write a piece like this. :sleep:


Though Japan is a well established capitalist country, but most probably Japanese people are still nurturing feudal ideas at the deep of their psycho.

hehe

[Nehru]

What Pranab says is true, although it won't be easy for non-western people to grasp. In Asia, including the Indian subcontinent, it's common for most people to idolize these beauty standards - fair skin and all that. Even educated people do that, so lack of education cannot be an excuse; so, as Pranab rightly states, feudalistic mentality could be the prime reason for such behavior.


Mr. Kanazawa is probably from Japanese origin (I guessed from his name) and most probably he is hearing the seeds of Asian feudal tradition in him. All over Asia, "fair" white skin is must component of (women"s) beauty and that's nothing but an expression of feudal mentality.
In feudalism, white skin is considered to be beautiful because that means the human being can stay longer at home and have to do little physical work outside in the sun, which makes skin darker. In India, both in popular cinema and other forms of entertainment, "fair skin" women are always the first preferred. An average Indian isn't much brighter than an average black African, but those who have the habit the watching popular Indian cinema (Bollywood films) just certainly can notice that the man characters of the films are very fair and that's the prime condition to be a hero/heroine of a popular Indian (Bollywood film) film.
Though Japan is a well established capitalist country, but most probably Japanese people are still nurturing feudal ideas at the deep of their psycho.

[chegitz guevara]

Fine, that just means more sisters for me.

[Manic Impressive]

I thought the general consensus on Revleft was that only white people can be racist?

[RadioRaheem84]

I thought the general consensus on Revleft was that only white people can be racist?

No but on a systemic level, non-whites parrot white racism/supremacy and presuppose it as a fact of "nature".

I mean why would an Asian man, which is common in Asia, think that whites are the most attractive?

This is endemic in places where there was European colonialism (funny though that Japan staved off colonialism and there are people that still parrot white supremacy). "White is the most beautiful" is pretty much a given in these places, and many do not question it.

[Thirsty Crow]

What Pranab says is true, although it won't be easy for non-western people to grasp.
Why would you say that?
I can perfectly understand the mechanism: one natural feature functions as a signal of the social status.
For instance, in some parts of a region in the country where I live, men tend to think that stronger, chubby women are more attractive (due to the remnants of the feudal past - peasants idolized women who were thought to be capable for hard work).

[Meridian]

Ive seen men suddenly be turned off women they thought were "feminine" by discovering an "aggressive" (meaning self assertive) streak.
Have you seen women suddenly be turned off men they thought were "masculine" by discovering a less self assertive streak? I think that is as usual.

It's definitely a cultural thing, though. Biological explanations are always questionable at best.

[Tim Finnegan]

No but on a systemic level, non-whites parrot white racism/supremacy and presuppose it as a fact of "nature".

I mean why would an Asian man, which is common in Asia, think that whites are the most attractive?

This is endemic in places where there was European colonialism (funny though that Japan staved off colonialism and there are people that still parrot white supremacy). "White is the most beautiful" is pretty much a given in these places, and many do not question it.
Actually, the Japanese relationship to race issues is really pretty complex. They certainly haven't internalised the blunt "white is beautiful" thing in the same way that some other nations have- a lot of them actually regard Europeans as quasi-Neanderthal in appearance as compared to the Japanese- but it's seeped through in certain subtler forms, particularly in providing a body of rationalisation for their own declared superiority over other ethnicities.

[NewSocialist]

Actually, the Japanese relationship to race issues is really pretty complex. They certainly haven't internalised the blunt "white is beautiful" thing in the same way that some other nations have- a lot of them actually regard Europeans as quasi-Neanderthal in appearance as compared to the Japanese

Are you sure about that?


Cosmetic Surgery in Japan

Common cosmetic surgery procedures performed in Japan includes breast enlargements, bellybutton alterations, facial reconstruction surgery that alters the cheekbones and chin, and operations to create a pointy nose, turn up nose, shrunken nostrils and full lips.

Many teenage girls and young women want long legs, big breasts and Caucasian features and hair. During the mid-1990s, when halter tops and bare mid-rift fashions were all the rage, many Japanese women and young girls spent $1,000 for 20 minute operation that transformed their "unsightly" round belly buttons into sexier vertical slits.

One of the most common surgical procedures in Japan is the double-slit operation. Many Japanese women don't have a crease over the top of their eyelid like Western women do. This crease, along with round eyes, in considered beautiful by some people. The double slit operation add a crease above eyelids with a scar-making incisions and cost about $1200. Nearly all patients who have had the operation done consider it worthwhile.

Many university students double-slit the operation done during their winter vacation. After the surgery is completed they are not allowed to wash or wear make-up for a week. Afterwards it takes about a month their swollen face returns to normal.

http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=669&catid=19&subcatid=126

[Tim Finnegan]

A lot of the examination of evolving Japanese beauty standards can be pretty Eurocentric, though, so I'd take it with a grain of salt; there's a habit of starting with the assumption that they want to be white, and looking for stuff that backs it up. The eyelid surgery, for example, forgets that a lot of Asian people have the double-crease to start with- about a third in North-East Asia- and that this has long been considered preferable. It's quite probably that Western influence stresses this particular aspect of beauty, but it can't be assumed that there's nothing more to it. Like I said, it's a pretty complex topic, as is pretty much anything involving Japan's relationship with the Western world.

[TC]

Mr. Kanazawa is probably from Japanese origin (I guessed from his name) and most probably he is hearing the seeds of Asian feudal tradition in him...
Though Japan is a well established capitalist country, but most probably Japanese people are still nurturing feudal ideas at the deep of their psycho.

Wow, Kanazawa's racism really does bring out the subconscious racist reactions in people criticizing him in this thread.

The fact that Kanazawa writes racist things is not a result of him being Japanese (and a British resident ex-pat at that), it is a result of him being a racist.

Explaining an individual's racism by characterizing it as a feature of the "psycho[sic]" of a non-white population is obviously itself racist.

[Nehru]

Wow, Kanazawa's racism really does bring out the subconscious racist reactions in people criticizing him in this thread.

The fact that Kanazawa writes racist things is not a result of him being Japanese (and a British resident ex-pat at that), it is a result of him being a racist.

Explaining an individual's racism by characterizing it as a feature of the "psycho[sic]" of a non-white population is obviously itself racist.

Sorry, but you missed the point. Read #23 for an explanation.

[Robocommie]

Sorry, but you missed the point. Read #23 for an explanation.

Yeah, but TC's right. Pranabjyoti is always rambling about Asian cultural essentialism at every chance he gets, apparently Asian folks are all alike, suffering from a feudal mindset, just like westerners suffer from a western mindset, and it's all something they can't escape, programmed in them like robots. It's something we would understand if we were an Asian person like him, or like you, or whatever. And it all conveniently goes back to feudalism, all the time. Nevermind the fact that we here in the United States have our own problematic associations with skin color, and this deeply seated notion that black people are ugly.

Ignore the fact that Satoshi Kanazawa is based in Britain, and that it's frankly unclear that he was even born in Japan. He has a Japanese name, so he probably is culturally Japanese and of course that means that the fact that his ancestors were at one point bullied by samurai means he is working under a feudal mindset. As if it were somehow in his blood. Mystically. :rolleyes:

Seriously, that's as much horseshit as saying that a guy named O'Connell who drinks too much does so because of the ancient predisposition towards heavy drinking in Irish culture, or that black folks just don't do well in school because their culture doesn't value education. It's bullshit essentialism, very very tenuously supported by a hand-waving argument that "non-Asians can't understand."

[brigadista]

Black is beautiful -the darker the berry the sweeter the fruit...:):):)

[Robocommie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Skin,_White_Masks

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2553348&page=1



In the powerful film, Davis asks a little girl, "Can you show me the doll that looks bad?"

The girl immediately chooses the black doll.

"Why does that look bad?" Davis asks.

"Because it's black," the girl responds.

Davis said that the children in the study did not hesitate when asked to choose the "good" or "bad" doll.

"It was just, boom, which is the good doll. They said because the white one is the good one, the black one is the bad one," she said. "They internalize these stereotypes that are out there."

But the same little girl seemed to hesitate when she was asked to select the doll that looked like her.

She seemed to want to choose the white doll, and then reluctantly picked the black one.
"It just shows … what they think society values," Davis said. "People don't realize at such a young age these children really get it.

[brigadista]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Skin,_White_Masks

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2553348&page=1

good reccomendation also

the Bluest Eye - Toni Morrison

[Thirsty Crow]

Yeah, but TC's right. Pranabjyoti is always rambling about Asian cultural essentialism at every chance he gets, apparently Asian folks are all alike, suffering from a feudal mindset, just like westerners suffer from a western mindset, and it's all something they can't escape, programmed in them like robots. "
To be frank, I didn't think he spoke in essentialist terms, but in terms of tendential aspects of a culture that is diverse (I'm pretty sure that beauty standards vary in Japanese culture). But yeah, I'm aware of the preference some people make, in Japan and China*, in relation to skin tone.

* one of my acquaintances who lives in China has explained to me that some people prefer fair skin tone, in very similar terms.

[Nehru]

To be frank, I didn't think he spoke in essentialist terms, but in terms of tendential aspects of a culture that is diverse (I'm pretty sure that beauty standards vary in Japanese culture). But yeah, I'm aware of the preference some people make, in Japan and China*, in relation to skin tone.

* one of my acquaintances who lives in China has explained to me that some people prefer fair skin tone, in very similar terms.

Most people in Asia/Africa do, which is what makes generalizations possible to begin with. There's no point in denying the obvious - most westerners are well integrated into a global, multicultural capitalist framework, so naturally they're given to progressive ideas. Asians/Africans, unfortunately, are still in a semi-feudalistic state, so their attitude will only reflect that.

Or look at it this way. In the west, these racist views are only common among reactionaries (the average guy in London wouldn't probably hold such views), whereas in the east these views are common even among average people, educated, well-meaning people. Can't you see why?

[Robocommie]

Or look at it this way. In the west, these racist views are only common among reactionaries (the average guy in London wouldn't probably hold such views), whereas in the east these views are common even among average people, educated, well-meaning people. Can't you see why?

Dude I live in the prosperous, enlightened west and I hear this kind of garbage every single day. Sometimes only subtly, as an institutionalized truism, sometimes blatantly spelled out. I think you're drawing extremely tenuous distinctions, and I really question the geographical basis of it. I mean, the East/West dichotomy, for starters, is bullshit.

[Nehru]

Dude I live in the prosperous, enlightened west and I hear this kind of garbage every single day. Sometimes only subtly, as an institutionalized truism, sometimes blatantly spelled out. I think you're drawing extremely tenuous distinctions, and I really question the geographical basis of it. I mean, the East/West dichotomy, for starters, is bullshit.

Fine, but white people believing in white beauty standards is one thing. Nonwhite populations believing in the exact same thing (to a point where they even become racist toward fellow nonwhites) - that's a whole different thing. What else but feudalism can explain this?

[Pretty Flaco]

I know a lot of attractive black girls ;)

[Communist]

Moved to Discrimination.

[TC]

Most people in Asia/Africa do, which is what makes generalizations possible to begin with. There's no point in denying the obvious - most westerners are well integrated into a global, multicultural capitalist framework, so naturally they're given to progressive ideas. Asians/Africans, unfortunately, are still in a semi-feudalistic state, so their attitude will only reflect that.

Or look at it this way. In the west, these racist views are only common among reactionaries (the average guy in London wouldn't probably hold such views), whereas in the east these views are common even among average people, educated, well-meaning people. Can't you see why?

This is just nonsense:

1. Feudalism not only also existed in the West, it lasted longer in the West than it lasted in Japan (well into the 20th century in Russia)

2. Racial apartheid in America only ended about 40 years ago, within living memory of the *dominant generation*. In contrast no one is alive today who remembers Japanese feudalism.

3. To suggest that the West is "integrated into a global, multicultural capitalist framework, so naturally they're given to progressive ideas" and Japan isn't is ridiculous. Tokyo is the largest financial center outside of NYC and the Japanese economy is thoroughly integrated into the global market.


But thats not really the point. The point is that excusing someone's racism by saying 'thats just part of his culture, those people are just like that - unlike the average person in London (where he lives)' is obviously racist.

[Robocommie]

Fine, but white people believing in white beauty standards is one thing. Nonwhite populations believing in the exact same thing (to a point where they even become racist toward fellow nonwhites) - that's a whole different thing. What else but feudalism can explain this?

The same things that explain racism everywhere else? I provided a pretty concrete example of the extent to which blacks in America internalize stereotypes against blacks, and the extent to which it manifests as racial self-loathing. I also mentioned one of the best books ever written on the subject, Black Skin, White Masks, by Fanon. This whole thing is a manifestation of racism and global white supremacy. That's a hell of a lot more grounded, and a hell of a lot less problematic, then making a baseless extrapolation that Kanazawa thinks these things because he's Japanese.

As TC pointed out, it's also ridiculous to keep talking about Japan and feudalism, given that it's one of the most industrialized societies on Earth, and Tokyo is one of the main financial centers of the globe.

[Nehru]

This is just nonsense:

1. Feudalism not only also existed in the West, it lasted longer in the West than it lasted in Japan (well into the 20th century in Russia)

2. Racial apartheid in America only ended about 40 years ago, within living memory of the *dominant generation*. In contrast no one is alive today who remembers Japanese feudalism.

3. To suggest that the West is "integrated into a global, multicultural capitalist framework, so naturally they're given to progressive ideas" and Japan isn't is ridiculous. Tokyo is the largest financial center outside of NYC and the Japanese economy is thoroughly integrated into the global market.


But thats not really the point. The point is that excusing someone's racism by saying 'thats just part of his culture, those people are just like that - unlike the average person in London (where he lives)' is obviously racist.

You've misunderstood it again. I am talking about feudalistic mindset which is still prevalent in these areas. Second, despite industrialization in places like Tokyo and Beijing, are they as multicultural as NY or London? In fact, they're strictly against immigration and are suspicious of foreigners. All this is due to a feudalistic attitude.

[Game Girl]

There is beauty in every race. True, views of what is beautiful may vary. But reguardless, beauty is present within every race.

[Tim Finnegan]

You've misunderstood it again. I am talking about feudalistic mindset which is still prevalent in these areas. Second, despite industrialization in places like Tokyo and Beijing, are they as multicultural as NY or London? In fact, they're strictly against immigration and are suspicious of foreigners. All this is due to a feudalistic attitude.
Isn't the nation-state a bourgeois and therefore post-feudal construction? :confused: You're all over the map here, pal.

[the_red_pickle]

lol not to be mean but i just had to laugh out loud when i came to the table for the "self-perceived attractiveness" :laugh: especially after seeing the results that came before. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Okay with that said, I despise the author Satoshi Kanazawa. He's known as the idiot of social sciences and for good reasons too. If you do a search on google about him, you'll come across the many sexist and racist "studies" he did where he conveniently twisted the findings to fit his objectives. You cannot take his work seriously.

[chegitz guevara]

I showed the article to my wife. She just started laughing. Then she looked at other articles from the same source (not Psychology Today--which she said is just a crap publication anyway) and asked why anyone was even discussing it seriously, for the reasons red pickle mentions (look up other articles by this fool).

The most beautiful woman in the history of humanity, Iman.

http://hotcelebrity.name/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/iman-cosmetics-400a121307_000.jpg

[Sasha]

(http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/05/24/yet-another-reason-to-hate-evolutionary-psychology)Yet Another Reason to Hate Evolutionary Psychology (http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/05/24/yet-another-reason-to-hate-evolutionary-psychology)

Posted by Charles Mudede (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/ArticleArchives?author=237) on Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:04 AM

Seriously (https://sites.google.com/site/dismisskanazawa/)...
Evolutionary Psychologist, Satoshi Kanazawa, Reader in Management at the LSE has time and time again published research which has been widely criticised as unscientific. It seeks to make controversial claims at the expense of the methodological quality and rigour that the LSE prides itself for. Kanazawa’s latest article published on Psychology Today on Monday 16th May 2011 entitled “Why Black women are less attractive than any other women” has caused outrage among academics and members of the public alike. This is in addition to his previously published work which includes “Are all women essentially prostitutes?” and “What’s wrong with Muslims?” estimating there to be “120 million ready suicide bombers worldwide”.
In the sense that eugenics has its terminal point in Nazism, EP has it in Kanazawaism.
petition to dismiss kanazawa: https://sites.google.com/site/dismisskanazawa/

[t.shonku]

It does if you are a closet male supremacist. "Femininity" in their eyes is about being their ideal of what a female should be i.e. pretty, meek and basically weak. Ive seen men suddenly be turned off women they thought were "feminine" by discovering an "aggressive" (meaning self assertive) streak.


Well said !

It is always good to see you here in this forum.

Any guy in this forum who has some practical knowledge will agree with me that good looking men/women exist in all races you just need an open heart and a good eye to find it.

I personally don't give much of a darn to looks of a woman , I think it has got more to do with chemistry between the two than anything else.

[Queercommie Girl]

The author, Satoshi Kanazawa, is just mad because as an Asian man, he obviously has a really, really small penis. I'm talking tiny.


Surely the stereotype that Asian men are less sexually attractive is just as bad as the stereotype that Black women are less sexually attractive? And so is the ridiculous stupid point about "penis size"?

Both are indeed the product of Western colonialism and indeed also patriarchy. Check for instances the basic assumptions of Orientalism, that Asian and Oriental cultures are intrinsically more "feminine" and Western and European cultures are intrinsically more "masculine". In East Asia Japan is sometimes considered to be the "Israel of East Asia", since the elites of Japan have absorbed and internalised a lot of white colonialist non-sense.

Like others have already pointed out, you cannot fight against discrimination by introducing even more discrimination, such as by making a discriminatory remark against Asian men in general. If anything, Asians like the Chinese have suffered the most at the hands of Japanese imperialism.

[Queercommie Girl]

No surprise about reactionary bullshit coming from an evolutionary psychologist at all, since "evolutionary psychology" is itself pretty much a reactionary discipline.

[Queercommie Girl]

You've misunderstood it again. I am talking about feudalistic mindset which is still prevalent in these areas. Second, despite industrialization in places like Tokyo and Beijing, are they as multicultural as NY or London? In fact, they're strictly against immigration and are suspicious of foreigners. All this is due to a feudalistic attitude.

Base determines superstructure. How can there be "feudalistic attitudes" without a feudal economic base? Marxism 101.

Also, why are you putting Beijing into the same category as Tokyo? China today is still a very poor country, with a GDP per capita 10 times lower than the EU average. Japan is an advanced capitalist country, China is a BRIC country. Economically speaking they are completely different.

If anything, it makes more sense to speak of China today as still having some "feudal elements", rather than Japan, since China is much less developed and industrialised than Japan is. Yet no Chinese scholar would ever say such a thing. So actually systematic racism of this kind is a product of capitalist imperialism, rather than feudalism. In the feudal era, people of all ethnicities had prejudices, but not systematic "scientific racism" of this type.

[CitizenSmith]

I think the LSE is investigating him, and he's most likely going to be sacked. Students have protested against him.

[Tim Finnegan]

Surely the stereotype that Asian men are less sexually attractive is just as bad as the stereotype that Black women are less sexually attractive? And so is the ridiculous stupid point about "penis size"?

Both are indeed the product of Western colonialism and indeed also patriarchy. Check for instances the basic assumptions of Orientalism, that Asian and Oriental cultures are intrinsically more "feminine" and Western and European cultures are intrinsically more "masculine". In East Asia Japan is sometimes considered to be the "Israel of East Asia", since the elites of Japan have absorbed and internalised a lot of white colonialist non-sense.

Like others have already pointed out, you cannot fight against discrimination by introducing even more discrimination, such as by making a discriminatory remark against Asian men in general. If anything, Asians like the Chinese have suffered the most at the hands of Japanese imperialism.
You're ignoring the second, crucial part of Manic Expression's post:

Oh wait, hold on...cheap stereotypes are fucking stupid. See how that works?
He was illustrating the intellectual laziness evident in Kanazawa's proclamations by demonstrating how easily and cheaply such stereotypes can be turned in the services of one's pre-determined conclusions. Equally, if "Satoshi Kanazawa" was "Sean Kelly", he could've made a crack about the Irish being stupid; the very falsehood of the stereotype he was deploying was the means by which he made his point.

[Queercommie Girl]

He was illustrating the intellectual laziness evident in Kanazawa's proclamations


No it's not just a matter of "intellectual laziness". This guy is clearly explicitly racist in an active sense, which is not surprising given the fact that much of the fucking trash discipline known as "evolutionary psychology" is full of reactionary crap that are sexist, racist and queerphobic. It doesn't really have much to do with the fact that he is Japanese or Asian.

[Tim Finnegan]

No it's not just a matter of "intellectual laziness". This guy is clearly explicitly racist in an active sense, which is not surprising given the fact that much of the fucking trash discipline known as "evolutionary psychology" is full of reactionary crap that are sexist, racist and queerphobic.
This may be a language issue- "intellectually lazy" doesn't imply laziness in the conventional sense, but of cutting intellectual corners, of waving scientific rigour in favour of prejudice, and so forth, all of which are pretty common in the sort of reactionary pseudo-studies to which you refer. In this case, what I'm suggesting is not that Kanazawa simply made up results through laziness, but that his results are the product of a lack of analytical rigour, substitution presumptions were further exploration was warranted. It's quite likely that on much such specific points, Kanazawa had no idea that he was even engaging in such intellectual laziness, as one would be aware of a conventional laziness, but, rather, that he simply never bothered to question his own preconceptions and prejudices.


It doesn't really have much to do with the fact that he is Japanese or Asian.True, but, again, Manic Expression was not suggesting as much, but was merely using Kanazawa's ethnicity as the basis by which his own faulty logic was turned against him.

[Queercommie Girl]

This may be a language issue- "intellectually lazy" doesn't imply laziness in the conventional sense, but of cutting intellectual corners, of waving scientific rigour in favour of prejudice, and so forth, all of which are pretty common in the sort of reactionary pseudo-studies to which you refer. In this case, what I'm suggesting is not that Kanazawa simply made up results through laziness, but that his results are the product of a lack of analytical rigour, substitution presumptions were further exploration was warranted. It's quite likely that on much such specific points, Kanazawa had no idea that he was even engaging in such intellectual laziness, as one would be aware of a conventional laziness, but, rather, that he simply never bothered to question his own preconceptions and prejudices.


Ok. But then objectively I don't think this is such an accurate use of language. This guy is certainly not "lazy" (in any conventional sense) at all, he is working extremely hard to push forward his racist agenda.

Another thing is that I don't really like to use the word "lazy" as a criticism against people that much. Since so many workers under capitalism today are over-worked, frankly some degree of "laziness" (in the genuine sense, not in the sense of "intellectual laziness") may actually be a good thing.



True, but, again, Manic Expression was not suggesting as much, but was merely using Kanazawa's ethnicity as the basis by which his own faulty logic was turned against him.Ok. I just don't want to see this turned into some sort of "reverse racism" against the Japanese or worse, against Asians in general. "Reverse racism" against Asians doesn't even make any sense, not even like "reverse racism" against whites, since most Asians were historically at the receiving end of Western imperialism and even today the majority of Asian countries are still very poor. Japan is very rich and developed and has been a major imperialist power for more than a century, but among Asians, Japan is the exception, not the rule. This is why I said Japan is the "Israel of East Asia".

[brigadista]

the man is a racist idiot regardless of his own ethnicity simple as :)

[Tim Finnegan]

Ok. But then objectively I don't think this is such an accurate use of language. This guy is certainly not "lazy" (in any conventional sense) at all, he is working extremely hard to push forward his racist agenda.
Well, again, "intellectually lazy" is not used in the same sense as unqualified "lazy" is. It does not suggest a lack of mechanical effort- plenty of which I'm sure that Kanazawa is investing in his work- but a lack of intellectual effort in pursuing solid conclusions. Kanazawa may work his socks of his, but his output betrays a complete disinterest in challenging his own ideological bigotries, hence, I accuse him of intellectual laziness.


Ok. I just don't want to see this turned into some sort of "reverse racism" against the Japanese or worse, against Asians in general. "Reverse racism" against Asians doesn't even make any sense, not even like "reverse racism" against whites, since most Asians were historically at the receiving end of Western imperialism and even today the majority of Asian countries are still very poor. Japan is very rich and developed and has been a major imperialist power for more than a century, but among Asians, Japan is the exception, not the rule. This is why I said Japan is the "Israel of East Asia".
Well, it was a rhetorical device, nothing more, so I wouldn't worry about it. As I said, ME's appropriation of Kanazawa's logic was a concious repudiation of it, rather than any sort of inadvertent or unconscious endorsement.

[Queercommie Girl]

Well, again, "intellectually lazy" is not used in the same sense as unqualified "lazy" is. It does not suggest a lack of mechanical effort- plenty of which I'm sure that Kanazawa is investing in his work- but a lack of intellectual effort in pursuing solid conclusions. Kanazawa may work his socks of his, but his output betrays a complete disinterest in challenging his own ideological bigotries, hence, I accuse him of intellectual laziness.


The point is that he is not disinterested in challenging his own ideological bigotry because he is not making an intellectual effort to do so, but rather he is deliberately promoting racism in order to further his ideological agenda. I bet he actually knows that he is not being objective. Thus it's not a matter of "intellectual laziness", but rather "intellectual dishonesty".

[Tim Finnegan]

The point is that he is not disinterested in challenging his own ideological bigotry because he is not making an intellectual effort to do so, but rather he is deliberately promoting racism in order to further his ideological agenda. I bet he actually knows that he is not being objective. Thus it's not a matter of "intellectual laziness", but rather "intellectual dishonesty".
I'm not sure I understand; in what sense does the fact that he actively seeks to further a particualr ideology dismiss the suggestion that he has declined to challenge his own prejudices? Surely, if we accept that they are prejudices- that they are factually inaccurate, and sustained only by wilful ignorance- and not merely a legitimate opinion that departs from our own, then we must acknowledge that one could not hope to maintain them, let alone propagate them, without an unwillingness to challenge such preconceptions, and as such an unwillingness to engage in the scientific rigour which is taken for granted in scientific study. This means that Kanazawa has a self-evident disinterest in actually fulfilling his stated mission as a scientist, a mission which demands rigour in both investigation of evidence and establishment of arguments, in favour of taking the easy route of rationalising his existing prejudices with cheap, misleading data, and, therefore, that he is indulging in "intellectual laziness".

I get the impression that you seem to be think my referring to Kanazawa as "intellectually lazy" was some sort of apologism, as if that somehow let him off the hook by presenting him as an unwitting buffoon, rather than a vile racist. I assure you, I meant no such thing, but, rather, meant to suggest that the sin of his racism was compounded by the sin of his intellectual laziness, which is quite the opposite.

[Queercommie Girl]

As I said, I don't really like using the word "lazy" as a criticism, because frankly I think people have the right to be lazy to some extent, and indeed, I am quite a lazy person myself.

[Queercommie Girl]

Kanazawa's theories on race and intelligence (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence) are controversial. Kanazawa has argued that Asian cultural traditions and/or character inhibit Asian scientific creativity

This is why Kanazawa's racism cannot be blamed on the fact that he is Japanese or Asian, because he is basically engaging in cultural self-hate against Asians. He is basically parroting the stupid fucking Orientalist bullshit that Asian culture is intrinsically less "rational" and "scientific" than European culture. (Never mind the fact that the numbers we all use today are Indo-Arabic in origin, and not Greco-Roman!)

This is why like I said, Japan is like the "Israel of East Asia".

[gare-bear]

I am throughly convinced that ''evolutionary-psychology'' is nothing but reactionary bourgeois pseudoscience that not so subtly gives justification to fascist eugenics. Best to ignore this entire field, altogether.

[Game Girl]

As I said. Beauty is universal. But sadly, so is stupidity.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Im a White Male and I think Black Women are Beautiful.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Would anyone else agree ? I think all races and skin colors have beautiful Women. I think saying only White Women can be beautiful is racist and Eurocentric I being White and Male I do in fact think White Women can be beautiful but Black Women are beautiful too and Asian Women and Arab Women and East Indian Women and Latin American Women are beautiful too in my eyes.

[tradeunionsupporter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty

[Queercommie Girl]

In fact, the very idea that only women can be "beautiful" but not men is itself sexist anyway.

[Princess Luna]

Beauty is merely a perspective, anyone who can't see that is a fucking moron (http://www.revleft.com/vb/www.***************)

[RadioRaheem84]

I've been under this impression that there are some bourgoise Asians who have been trying to take over the mantle left over from WASPs with their "scientific" explanations about race superiority.

[Queercommie Girl]

I've been under this impression that there are some bourgoise Asians who have been trying to take over the mantle left over from WASPs with their "scientific" explanations about race superiority.

Actually only a few ethnic Japanese people at the moment, most of Asia is still far too poor and undeveloped for this.

[tir1944]

Actually only a few ethnic Japanese people at the moment, most of Asia is still far too poor and undeveloped for this.
Haven't you heard that neo-nazism is big (and growing) in Mongolia?
They believe that the descendents of Ghangis Kan are superior to every other race in Euroasia...

[ВАЛТЕР]

Black women are ugly? "Ugly" by whose standards? I have met some gorgeous black women. Racists are so fucking stupid that it hurts,

[Smashcapitalists]

Beauty is pretty much subjective, I tend to find asian and white girls attractive, but i understand that is subjective opinion. As for african girls, hey theres a first time for everything!

[RadioRaheem84]

Actually only a few ethnic Japanese people at the moment, most of Asia is still far too poor and undeveloped for this.

I've read that it's also spreading among businessmen in China.

[Queercommie Girl]

Haven't you heard that neo-nazism is big (and growing) in Mongolia?
They believe that the descendents of Ghangis Kan are superior to every other race in Euroasia...


The "Neo-Nazis" in Mongolia is more of a right-wing ethnic nationalist movement that is mainly anti-Chinese and to a lesser extent anti-Russian. Of course it's very reactionary, but it's not the same as explicit racialist Nazism of the European type.

And at any rate this is very different from what RadioRaheem was talking about. Fascism and Nazism are actually more likely to attract relatively poor and disgruntled sections of the population. More "high-brow" and "intellectual" racism (e.g. like the one discussed in this thread) is on the other hand the indulgement of more affluent populations.

So please spare me your "Yellow Peril" scare-mongering.

[Queercommie Girl]

I've read that it's also spreading among businessmen in China.

And there are also a few very reactionary Afrocentrists among Black people as well. What's your point? A few rich people in China might be very racist, but the majority of the Chinese population is still too poor to really indulge in this kind of thing, given that the Chinese GDP per capita figure is still 10 times lower than the EU average. It makes no sense to try to suggest that Asians have on the whole become even more racist and anti-Black than whites.

As late as the early 1990s, mainland China still had a GDP per capita that was lower than the average GDP per capita of sub-Saharan Africa. China only overtook Africa in this aspect in recent years.

[RadioRaheem84]

And there are also a few very reactionary Afrocentrists among Black people as well. What's your point? A few rich people in China might be very racist, but the majority of the Chinese population is still too poor to really indulge in this kind of thing, given that the Chinese GDP per capita figure is still 10 times lower than the EU average. It makes no sense to try to suggest that Asians have on the whole become even more racist and anti-Black than whites.

As late as the early 1990s, mainland China still had a GDP per capita that was lower than the average GDP per capita of sub-Saharan Africa. China only overtook Africa in this aspect in recent years.

If you would've read my original post I said bougie Asians trying to fill the void left over from rich WASPs.

Where did you get the impression than anyone in here was trying to disparage all Asians?

[Queercommie Girl]

If you would've read my original post I said bougie Asians trying to fill the void left over from rich WASPs.

Where did you get the impression than anyone in here was trying to disparage all Asians?

Bourgeois Asians, Bourgeois whites, Bourgeois Blacks, they are all reactionary not because they are Asian, white or Black, but because they are bourgeois.

Of course racism exists, but I think you will find that Asians in general are still more at the receiving end of it rather than the other end. Japan is the only Asian country that is to a significant extent on the same level as the rich whites. Even the "tiger economies" like Taiwan and South Korea aren't on the same level yet.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Massive cliche, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This article must have forgotten about the goddess that is Beyonce, too. <3

[Invader Zim]

This is a little misleading. Kanazawa was hypothesising why a survey showed results which generally saw black women rated as less attractive than white women. He then postulated a load of psuedo-scientific bullshit to explain that.

[NewLeft]

And how does the white standard of beauty not apply here?

[Iron Felix]

Personally I don't find black women attractive but that hardly means I'm a racist.

[tachosomoza]

Personally I don't find black women attractive but that hardly means I'm a racist.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Yuppie Grinder]

pisses me off to see black celebrities getting un-neccesary plastic surgery to look more like a white woman

[Yuppie Grinder]

Massive cliche, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This article must have forgotten about the goddess that is Beyonce, too. <3

beyonce has had a good deal of procedures done to look as white as possible

[Queercommie Girl]

pisses me off to see black celebrities getting un-neccesary plastic surgery to look more like a white woman

Asian women do it too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_eyelid_surgery

So really this Japanese guy is partly self-hating as well. (After all if you look at his "results", he doesn't say Asian women are the most beautiful, he says white women are the most beautiful)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

beyonce has had a good deal of procedures done to look as white as possible

I don't think she looks 'white'. In fact I really do understand the point you're trying to make and, it's a horrendous example of reverse racism, or just racism. Some people are just sexy whatever race, ethnicity or national heritage they are. That they are 'made more white' or what-fucking-ever is just media spin. Some of us don't pay any fucking attention to that shit, and if you wanna think that Trots/anarchists/left-coms just fancy white chicks, to suit your ridiculous quasi-Maoist agenda, then fuck yourself.

[jake williams]

On topic, it's kind of disturbing that so many responses to this are 'But there's this black chick I think is hot!'


Bourgeois Asians, Bourgeois whites, Bourgeois Blacks, they are all reactionary not because they are Asian, white or Black, but because they are bourgeois.

Of course racism exists, but I think you will find that Asians in general are still more at the receiving end of it rather than the other end.
I think if anything workers and peasants in Africa, Asia and Latin America - but East Asia especially, because capitalism there is more developed and the bourgeoisie there has significant autonomy vis-à-vis Western imperialism - are mainly at the receiving end of not racism per se, but a similar sort of ideology of supremacy, on the part of their respective national bourgeoisies.

Especially in situations of sharp inequality, ideological justifications of material inequality become almost necessary. This is more or less the history of the development of racism - the need to justify colonialism and slavery - but in situations where the unequal parties are of similar or identitical ethnic origins, a different but related ideology of supremacy develops (not that some folks who think that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically superior haven't tried old school racism anyway). I think this is probably far more common among, say, Chinese billionaires than Nazi-style racial supremacy about Chinese people, because those Chinese billionaires presumably see European billionaires as equals and Chinese workers as enemies (I presume).


Japan is the only Asian country that is to a significant extent on the same level as the rich whites. Even the "tiger economies" like Taiwan and South Korea aren't on the same level yet.
Individual strata within the respective bourgeoisies are more or less on the same level. In fact, that they exist within social situations of greater wealth inequality inclines them to more fiercely ideologize their own supremacy. In the US, where there's a façade of social mobility, the bourgeoisie is a lot more likely to believe that they just worked a bit harder and got a few more lucky breaks.

[Blamelessman]

I also dated a black Brazillian girl and she was amazing - she was quite successful in her career as a lawyer and constantly receives big offers from different firms to work for them. We also had some problems with the distance when I left Brazil, so we transitioned from dating to friends. All I can say this Psychologist is an idiot. I was also brought up with racial stereotypes by living in a small country town. The most shocking thing to me is when you realise they're not true. People say the most insulting and vilifying things about Asian and Blacks, but once you become familiar with a lot of Asian and Black people, you realise their no different to the rest of society. I know I was brought up with the idea that 'Asian women are easy' or that they 'desperately want a white man to show them how inferior they are' or some other trash. I never realised how extremely hurtful that was until I moved to a big city and met a lot of Asian people. I hate racial stereotypes, and I hate people that say 'the thing about racial stereotypes is that, there's always a bit of truth in them' - rubbish.

Ur claim is nonsense and plays into the hands of the writers of that article because brazillian blacks are mixed with europeans. So your `gorgeous' gf was european.

[Raúl Duke]

You know, I'm not surprised that Psychology Today posted this...

That magazine always seemed to have a bias, in my opinion, towards "evolutionary psychology;" a field that always comes up with crap. Even when I was interested in studying psychology in uni I really disliked this magazine and thought it was horrible for the field of psychology.

[Sam Varriano]

If Black women are so ugly why did the slaveowners used to rape black female slaves????

For what its worth, rape has little to do with attraction, its more so of a sign of dominance. Just saying >_>

[Lanky Wanker]

I don't even take things like this seriously.

[sulla]

No surprise about reactionary bullshit coming from an evolutionary psychologist at all, since "evolutionary psychology" is itself pretty much a reactionary discipline.


Explan that statement please. I think evoluntionary psychology is neutral. Like all disciplines it can be abused. Are you one of those people who believe that all of human psychology is socally constracted or something?

Perhaps you dislike some of the conclusions of evoluntionary psychology, so therefore you have to label it, and then dismiss it!

[leemadison11]

This is so much of bullshit that i can't stop thinking about it, they really need to check out some videos of Rhianna, Beyonce, Gabriel Union, Halle Berry, Alicia Keys, Kerry Washington, Megan Good, Ashanti Douglas etc. The list is endless. They really need to start using internet.