Fuck it, there is institutionalized sexism against men

[727Goon]

It's called the fucking court system. That shit is always biased against the father or boyfriend or husband, regardless. My cousin and his girl got into an argument and she ran at him to hit him and he grabbed her to stop her. She hit the ground and now my boys facing 15 years and is gonna lose his CNA license and might never see his kid again. Meanwhile I'm stuck in a relationship that's gone to shit and I can't break it off cause I know my girlfriend will get custody of my daughter. The court system will literally force me out of my daughters life if I get out of an unhealthy relationtionship, while at the same time white culture demonizes "absent black fathers". This isn't no reverse racism bullshit, everywhere I look around fathers and boyfriend and husbands are getting fucked by the court system. Like they talk about absent father figures in the black community, maybe there would be more fathers in their kids lives if the court system wasnt so biased against black men.

[Agent Ducky]

Was anyone saying there wasn't?

Institutionalized discrimination is unacceptable in all cases, and I'm sorry to hear that you're affected by it this way.

[727Goon]

Was anyone saying there wasn't?

every "feminist" ever

I think a lot of this comes down to the colonial mindset that black women need to be saved from black men. Every two bit feminist probably will trivialize how fucked up the problem is though.

[agnixie]

This isn't no reverse racism bullshit
You're right, it's reverse sexism.

Most divorces lead to shared custody, and non-shared custody goes to the father about 30% of the time.
The father is more likely to be a deadbeat if custody is not shared. Etc.

[Princess Luna]

it's a side effect of the fact patriarchy says men are supposed to be the "providers" while women meant to take care of children.

[727Goon]

You're right, it's reverse sexism.

I'm saying it's not made up like "reverse racism" it's a significant problem.

[agnixie]

I'm saying it's not made up like "reverse racism" it's a significant problem.

It's a made up bullshit MRA problem. Mothers get custody because of the social assumption of motherhood, not because single mothers can afford it, and not because of a rash of institutional misandry. Chances are your single ass would be worth more than your ex' entire household.

[lines]

I'm saying it's not made up like "reverse racism" it's a significant problem.

Reverse racism is made up because there is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism whether it's a white being racist towards someone or whether it's a black being racist towards someone.

[727Goon]

what the fuck is MRA

[727Goon]

Reverse racism is made up because there is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism whether it's a white being racist towards someone or whether it's a black being racist towards someone.

Too bad youre wrong.

[Agent Ducky]

Ugh, that's my problem with people who call themselves "feminist"... some of them only see one-sidedly.... Is it feminist to want equality for both genders? A lot of people have told me that feminism isn't about equality but I've heard different definitions from everyone.

[RGacky3]

it's a side effect of the fact patriarchy says men are supposed to be the "providers" while women meant to take care of children.


I'd say that has more to do with historical evolutionary influences.


Too bad youre wrong.

It depends what you mean, institutional racism does'nt exist against white people, but there are people that are personally racist against white people, but who cares, thats just individuals, just like I don't care about some dude that wants to where a white robe and hate black people, its just an individual being an idiot, its not institutional, thats the racism that matters.


Most divorces lead to shared custody, and non-shared custody goes to the father about 30% of the time.
The father is more likely to be a deadbeat if custody is not shared. Etc.

Statistics mean more than personal stories.

[agnixie]

Ugh, that's my problem with people who call themselves "feminist"... some of them only see one-sidedly.... Is it feminist to want equality for both genders? A lot of people have told me that feminism isn't about equality but I've heard different definitions from everyone.

Yeah, except the stats I gave can easily be sourced.

There's 12 million single parent households in the US, 10 where the single parent is a woman. 15% of single custodial parents are men, 40% of divorced fathers are basically out of their children's lives, and a hell of a lot of those are deadbeats, and the vast majority of custody cases end up with shared custody.

It's also not because of some sort of weird "omg the system hates men", but because women are expected to be nurturing childbearers.

I want equality, not to have idiots bawwing about how it's unfair for them that society sees me as a baby machine.


I'd say that has more to do with historical evolutionary influences.

Nobody is naturally a nurturing childbearer with few exceptions. Caring for children is something that was drilled into women before from quite a young age.


Statistics mean more than personal stories.

When it's about claiming widespread discrimination against males, I'll take some evidence with my whining.

[727Goon]

It depends what you mean, institutional racism does'nt exist against white people, but there are people that are personally racist against white people, but who cares, thats just individuals, just like I don't care about some dude that wants to where a white robe and hate black people, its just an individual being an idiot, its not institutional, thats the racism that matters.

That kind of racism isnt a political issue.

[Agent Ducky]

Yeah, except the stats I gave can easily be sourced.

There's 12 million single parent households in the US, 10 where the single parent is a woman. 15% of custodial parents are men, 40% of divorced fathers are basically out of their children's lives, and a hell of a lot of those are deadbeats, and the vast majority of custody cases end up with shared custody.

It's also not because of some sort of weird "omg the system hates men", but because women are expected to be nurturing childbearers.

I want equality, not to have idiots bawwing about how it's unfair for them that society sees me as a baby machine.


Nobody is naturally a nurturing childbearer with few exceptions. Caring for children is something that was drilled into women before from quite a young age.

Well, then isn't it a question not of what gender is being discriminated against, but that both are having institutionalized gender roles forced on them, and that's what influences the decisions.... The whole idea of spinning it as "discriminating against men" or "discriminating against women" is making arguments out of stuff caused by the same problem. So instead of fighting over who gets discriminated against more by the system, why not unite and fight the root of the problem, institutionalized gender roles?

I'm not making sense, am I?

[727Goon]

What about the abuse issue? Oftentimes if the woman is the aggressor the man will still get charged, like my cousin who didnt even hit his girlfriend who was coming at him and is still sitting in jail right now. Meanwhile I've been slapped and hit before by my girl and a lot of guys have too but if I tried to press abuse charges (which I don't) I would get laughed out of court.

[Agent Ducky]

What about the abuse issue? Oftentimes if the woman is the aggressor the man will still get charged, like my cousin who didnt even hit his girlfriend who was coming at him and is still sitting in jail right now. Meanwhile I've been slapped and hit before by my girl and a lot of guys have too but if I tried to press abuse charges (which I don't) I would get laughed out of court.

That's based on the perceived gender role of man=aggressor and woman=victim. And that if it's the other way around, it's either not right or the man should just suck it up and gtfo. I agree, it's not fair.

[RGacky3]

That kind of racism isnt a political issue.

I agree, but some people try and make it one, which is stupid, I personally think its a waste of time when leftists organize huge rallies to protest 7 70 year olds in white sheets going for a walk, the same goes for bitter white people complaining about one black person that said something ignorant and claiming reverse racism.


That's based on the perceived gender role of man=aggressor and woman=victim. And that if it's the other way around, it's either not right or the man should just suck it up and gtfo. I agree, it's not fair.

I agree, but there IS a difference when it comes to physical strength.

[GallowsBird]

Too bad youre wrong.

No, Goon, you are wrong (as usual). Racism isn't the same thing as "racial discrimination". Racism in its oldest form is believing in the existence of different human races and has over time become a philosophy in which someone thinks his "race" is superior to other "races" or that another's "race" is inferior to other "races".
So whereas most (but not all) "white" groups do not suffer discrimination in the USA and Europe because they are white they can suffer from racism.

The only real division between people is class division, the sooner people realise this the sooner we will come to a true socialist society.

[GallowsBird]

That kind of racism isnt a political issue.

All attempts to create division amongst the workers should be fought though. And though it may not be as much a political issue, and yes it is small-fry compared to institutionalised racism in society, it should still be combatted as ALL racism is wrong and leads to more institutionalised racism.

[Tommy4ever]

What about the abuse issue? Oftentimes if the woman is the aggressor the man will still get charged, like my cousin who didnt even hit his girlfriend who was coming at him and is still sitting in jail right now. Meanwhile I've been slapped and hit before by my girl and a lot of guys have too but if I tried to press abuse charges (which I don't) I would get laughed out of court.

I remember when I was in the Scottish Parliament doing work experience I saw them making a Bill about domestic abuse against men. In Scotland it was something like 20% of cases of domestic abuse are against men but about 1% of those are reported, 80% is against women and about 50% of that is reported. There are quite substantial services in Scotland to cater for female victims. There is absolutely nothing for men (not a single penny of government funding and apparently no major charities).

[Jazzratt]

What about the abuse issue? Oftentimes if the woman is the aggressor the man will still get charged, like my cousin who didnt even hit his girlfriend who was coming at him and is still sitting in jail right now. Meanwhile I've been slapped and hit before by my girl and a lot of guys have too but if I tried to press abuse charges (which I don't) I would get laughed out of court. That sucks for you and your cousin, but:


Statistics mean more than personal stories.

Do you have any statistical evidence of a court bias against abused males?

[hatzel]

Do you have any statistical evidence of a court bias against abused males?

I don't necessarily think there can be statistical evidence of that, or, it would be very hard to demonstrate. Tommy4ever, though, rightly points out that the issues surrounding abused males are different, and I can add that they largely seem to stem from some kind of feeling of shame, whilst women may be more likely to be affected by fear (not to say that shame doesn't play a part in women as well). One can assume that, in the present society where men are considered to be dominant over women, a man who is abused or raped, contrary to 'expectations', will feel that he's been effectively 'emasculated' in a manner quite unlike the way a woman may feel. Of course it's bad for both men and women to be abused, but people often almost 'expect' the dynamic between a man and a woman to be one in which, if anybody dominates the other, it will be the male over the female.

There are all manner of studies which suggest that one's preconceptions / expectations may subconsciously influence how one perceives reality, and it is probably true that an individual is less likely to believe that a man is being abused than a woman, which could indeed affect court proceedings. As well as, of course, impacting the likelihood of a man reporting the abuse, as he, what society considers the dominator, has in fact seen the tables turned, and he may feel that people who would feel sympathy for a woman in his situation may, in fact, make fun of him for not playing his 'roll' or for himself being 'weak'.

Of course none of this stuff is institutionalised or (perhaps) even intentional, but it goes to show that feminism without masculism is really missing a trick; the intention is to dismantle these presupposed gender stereotypes wherever they arise, and address the balance between the sexes. Although this, in the vast majority of instances, means empowering women, and raising their status in society, to reduce it to that alone ignores isolated examples such as this, where men suffer from the gender divide. Either you commit to fight all these manifestations of patriarchy / gender imbalance / gender-based stereotyping / whatever you want to call it, or it's hardly worth bothering with any, because as long as the above remains in place, the fundamental problems, of course, remain, even if the balance between the two groups is adjusted favourably.

[Nial Fossjet]

Why can't we say that human society always discriminates against different groups, it just discriminates against some groups more than others, and that we should all work together to end discrimination regardless of which group is being discriminated against?

[Ele'ill]

Notice 727goon's 'my girl' - 'his girl' language. That's a bit alarming.

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes...courts are in specific cases biased against men. This is sexism. What you have to understand however...or should understand is that this is ultimantely the end result of bias against women and the enforcement of gender roles.

That role being: women taking care of children. Men in general not wanting too....and therefore being protected by law in that generalised concept. The specific sexism here is that is enforces the generalisation of these gender roles on everybody....and in such instances....and there are other exampes, this can lead to institutionalised sexism against men who do not want to conform with the generalised gender idea.

It also makes a commodity of freedom for men...you want freedom? You can have it...buty you have to pay. This choice does not extend to women. Women have to take care of their child unless deemed unfit to do so. Women do not have that freedom. That freedom comes at the prcie of being declared medically or psychologically unfit.

But in essence you are right....this is sexism. Both towards women and men.

But...only in case of conflict. IF and only IF a woman does not want to allow the father acces to the child does the court exhibit institutionalised sexism towards men...not so much in its verdicts but in its willingness to enforce rulings.

[PhoenixAsh]

I remember when I was in the Scottish Parliament doing work experience I saw them making a Bill about domestic abuse against men. In Scotland it was something like 20% of cases of domestic abuse are against men but about 1% of those are reported, 80% is against women and about 50% of that is reported. There are quite substantial services in Scotland to cater for female victims. There is absolutely nothing for men (not a single penny of government funding and apparently no major charities).

That is the same here.

[PhoenixAsh]

the problem with abused men is also the unwillingness of the police to take it seriously and actually do something. This is also the case with rape.

[CommieTroll]

I think most of the time when the father gains custody is when the mother has a serious drug problem or a mental disorder, I know your kid probably means the world to you but who can give your kid the best life? You or your partner?

[Tommy4ever]

Oh BTW, in reference to the Bill I talked about seeing in the Scottish Parliament. IIRC it was trying to get some money spent on a service for males suffering from domestic abuse. There was only one major force standing against it. The feminist lobby in the Labour party ....

I watched a speech by some feminist Labour MSP in which she basically said that men can deal with domestic abuse themselves, women need help. Therefore creating a service for men would take away money from the where it is really need - with the female service.

Modern feminism in the western world is pretty morally bankrupt. Nowadays its rarely concerned with gender equality and mostly concerned with creating a society favourable for women over men.

[RGacky3]

Notice 727goon's 'my girl' - 'his girl' language. That's a bit alarming.


No its not, don't be nitpicky here.

[#FF0000]

No its not, don't be nitpicky here.

Things aren't insignificant just because you say they aren't.

I mean I wouldn't say "OH MAN THIS MEANS GOON IS A SEXIST WHO THINKS WOMEN ARE PROPERTY", but it's a p. common expression and I don't think it's outrageous to say there's something strange about it.


I'd say that has more to do with historical evolutionary influences.

No. It's because people on some level think "women = caregivers, men = breadwinners". This "historical evolutionary" nonsense might be an excuse, but it's still a baseless, sexist assumption. Women are not innately good at raising children and there's no reason why men ought to be the primary breadwinner.

[Desperado]

every "feminist" ever

Please.

[RedSunRising]

Reverse racism is made up because there is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism whether it's a white being racist towards someone or whether it's a black being racist towards someone.

LOL.....We live under pretty much white supremacy so no, not all racism is equally as bad.

[Metacomet]

I think it exists in it's own ways.

Like for example, that if i was a tall blond bimbo I'd have a full time job by now.

[gorillafuck]

Notice 727goon's 'my girl' - 'his girl' language. That's a bit alarming.Indeed, he doesn't talk nearly white enough for our standards.

[28350]

Notice 727goon's 'my girl' - 'his girl' language. That's a bit alarming.
.


my boys

[#FF0000]

I think it exists in it's own ways.

Like for example, that if i was a tall blond bimbo I'd have a full time job by now.

And your chances of having been sexually assaulted sometime in your life would be, what, 50/50?

I mean, it'd also likely be a sort of low-wage position. If not, chances are a guy's making more than you for the same work.

And I'm not sure but weren't women hit particularly hard by this economic crisis?

[RedSunRising]

Like for example, that if i was a tall blond bimbo I'd have a full time job by now.

Bimbo?

I dont care what third wave feminism thinks, that word is disgusting.

[#FF0000]

Bimbo?

I dont care what third wave feminism thinks, that word is disgusting.

I didn't realize third wave feminists were down with the word "bimbo" at all.

[Zav]

It's called the fucking court system. That shit is always biased against the father or boyfriend or husband, regardless. My cousin and his girl got into an argument and she ran at him to hit him and he grabbed her to stop her. She hit the ground and now my boys facing 15 years and is gonna lose his CNA license and might never see his kid again. Meanwhile I'm stuck in a relationship that's gone to shit and I can't break it off cause I know my girlfriend will get custody of my daughter. The court system will literally force me out of my daughters life if I get out of an unhealthy relationtionship, while at the same time white culture demonizes "absent black fathers". This isn't no reverse racism bullshit, everywhere I look around fathers and boyfriend and husbands are getting fucked by the court system. Like they talk about absent father figures in the black community, maybe there would be more fathers in their kids lives if the court system wasnt so biased against black men.
This here is why I am a Masculist.

[RedSunRising]

I didn't realize third wave feminists were down with the word "bimbo" at all.

They are down with slut. Whats the difference between those words?

[Ele'ill]

the problem with abused men is also the unwillingness of the police to take it seriously and actually do something. This is also the case with rape.

A bit of take it as you want anecdotal input- 100% of the 'domestic situations' I've been around involving the police and regardless of fault have ended in misery for everyone involved. With that said, everything involving judges, court systems and the police is weighted towards those who have money and time.

[#FF0000]

This here is why I am a Masculist.

lol what


They are down with slut. Whats the difference between those words?

Ohhh, right.

Yeah I don't know about the whole "reclaiming" of words thing. Forgot about that.

[Ele'ill]

Indeed, he doesn't talk nearly white enough for our standards.

Our? This aside, it implies ownership.

[PhoenixAsh]

A bit of take it as you want anecdotal input- 100% of the 'domestic situations' I've been around involving the police and regardless of fault have ended in misery for everyone involved. With that said, everything involving judges, court systems and the police is weighted towards those who have money and time.

Exactly...just the way I see it. Amongst others because I have experienced that myself on a few occasions.

[PhoenixAsh]

Our? This aside, it implies ownership.

yes....it does. but I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt and reinterpret it as being an indication of specific intra human relationship link. After all...it would sound strange if he would say..the girlfirend or the woman....since we do not name names. :-)

[gorillafuck]

Our? This aside, it implies ownership.It's also the way that black people generally talk. It's a phrase that the only kids that I know who use it are black and it's common for black women to say "my man". It doesn't mean ownership it's a way of talking.

[727Goon]

Our? This aside, it implies ownership.

what the fuck no it doesnt?

[727Goon]

It's also the way that black people generally talk. It's a phrase that the only kids that I know who use it are black and it's common for black women to say "my man". It doesn't mean ownership it's a way of talking.

To be honest I didn't consciously recognize it as a black thing, but yeah it's the same thing as saying "My girlfriend". My girlfriend calls me her baby, does that mean she thinks I'm a child? No, obviously not, it's just a way of speaking.

[727Goon]

Do you have any statistical evidence of a court bias against abused males?

These kinds of things are hard to prove because ninety nine percent of cases don't go to court. I think a lot of men have been hit by women but no one thinks of taking it to court because of the way people would look at them, like dudes who complain about getting hit by their girlfriends are soft or whatever. I think while their arent statistics a lot of people can relate to the societal attitudes that influence the bias. I mean the fact is if my girlfriend ever hits me again I'm not even gonna like bear hug her to try and stop her I'm just gonna sit there and let her do whatever because if I do anything there's a very good chance I'd get charged.

[727Goon]

I mean I wouldn't say "OH MAN THIS MEANS GOON IS A SEXIST WHO THINKS WOMEN ARE PROPERTY"

That was the implication of Mariels post. I guess my girlfriend thinks men are babies huh.

[Tim Finnegan]

Oh BTW, in reference to the Bill I talked about seeing in the Scottish Parliament. IIRC it was trying to get some money spent on a service for males suffering from domestic abuse. There was only one major force standing against it. The feminist lobby in the Labour party ....

I watched a speech by some feminist Labour MSP in which she basically said that men can deal with domestic abuse themselves, women need help. Therefore creating a service for men would take away money from the where it is really need - with the female service.

Modern feminism in the western world is pretty morally bankrupt. Nowadays its rarely concerned with gender equality and mostly concerned with creating a society favourable for women over men.
Not even close to being the same thing.


It's also the way that black people generally talk. It's a phrase that the only kids that I know who use it are black and it's common for black women to say "my man". It doesn't mean ownership it's a way of talking.
Yeah, I think that may be inferring more than is actually there. They do the same thing in Scotland- my girlfriend refers to me as "my lad"- so it's more of a colloquial thing. (Possibly the same one, too, given the influence of Scots on the dialects of the American South.)


They are down with slut. Whats the difference between those words?
"Slut" is used to suppress female sexuality by posing it as shameful and aberrant. "Bimbo" is just being a dick. Difference is kinda self-evident.

[Metacomet]

And your chances of having been sexually assaulted sometime in your life would be, what, 50/50?

I mean, it'd also likely be a sort of low-wage position. If not, chances are a guy's making more than you for the same work.

And I'm not sure but weren't women hit particularly hard by this economic crisis?

I wouldn't trade my life with being a woman. Sorry, It was more just venting


Be honest.

Job interview.

One candidate. A 23 year old woman, attractive, well dressed, little experience or skills, but a degree. She is perky and can smile.

the next candidate. Same credentials. Homosexual 23 year old male. Average height, a little chubby, shaved head, moderately well dressed. He knows what he can do, but can't always say it in words.

Who gets hired in today's economy in say a sales job, or maybe education? Most likely the woman.

[Tim Finnegan]

Be honest.

Job interview.

One candidate. A 23 year old woman, attractive, well dressed, little experience or skills, but a degree. She is perky and can smile.

the next candidate. Same credentials. Homosexual 23 year old male. Average height, a little chubby, shaved head, moderately well dressed. He knows what he can do, but can't always say it in words.

Who gets hired in today's economy in say a sales job, or maybe education? Most likely the woman.
So, what, your insight is that benevolent sexism exists? That's not quite the same thing as "sexism against men", which is an altogether more complex subject.

[Ele'ill]

I'm out of this conversation pending potential derailment. Consider this nothing proven nothing disproved.

[Meridian]

So, what, your insight is that benevolent sexism exists? That's not quite the same thing as "sexism against men", which is an altogether more complex subject.
"Benevolent sexism"? That term isn't applicable to the example, since in it there is a party which is clearly not on the receiving end of benevolence, but rather malevolence, based on the preferences of the hirer.

[Tim Finnegan]

"Benevolent sexism"? That term isn't applicable to the example, since in it there is a party which is clearly not on the receiving end of benevolence, but rather malevolence, based on the preferences of the hirer.
"Benevolent" in regard to the woman, and, I would suggest, merely indifferent in regards to the man. As I said, sexism against men does exist- although overwhelmingly misogynistic in character, an alternate expression of patriarchy rather than as some counter-force- that just happens to be a very poor example.

Unless you really do consider men not receiving an arbitrary preference as "malevolent".

[#FF0000]

Who gets hired in today's economy in say a sales job, or maybe education? Most likely the woman.

Can you prove it? I mean I'm not saying things like this don't happen (a lot, depending on the industry), but it's not like this is a rampant thing.

I think it's kinda funny you bring this up because a lot of women have to deal with people assuming they got hired because of appearance or something when they get a job.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Bimbo?

I dont care what third wave feminism thinks, that word is disgusting.

Not always! If you're in Mexico, bimbo is delicious.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_28EoZf3pWcw/TS7r9DXGAzI/AAAAAAAACoA/tRq5MVZhrPo/s1600/bimbo-bread-truck.jpg

[RedSunRising]

Can you prove it? I mean I'm not saying things like this don't happen (a lot, depending on the industry), but it's not like this is a rampant thing.


For some jobs bosses prefer women, because often because of cultural crap females are easier to bully, they often especially prefer immigrant females because in reality they are very sucessfully at ripping them off. If look at the actual lives of these females, as Maoism does, with often them being parasited off by boy friends, husbands and families to name one usual problem they are far from being previlaged at all.

[RGacky3]

common expression and I don't think it's outrageous to say there's something strange about it.


Linguistically, sure, you can have that argument, but using it as a warning sign for sexism is just stupid and diminishes actual sexism.


No. It's because people on some level think "women = caregivers, men = breadwinners". This "historical evolutionary" nonsense might be an excuse, but it's still a baseless, sexist assumption. Women are not innately good at raising children and there's no reason why men ought to be the primary breadwinner.

Back when breadwinning involved a lot of physical strength, that men have and women did not, I think thats where that thing came from, (its not universal amung mammals or even primates for the male to be the bread winner, but in humans that could be why), as for women, its the case with most mammals, and the case with primates, I don't know where it comes from but it could be the act of childbirth and breastfeeding.

You might say having those expectations are sexist, but where they come from is'nt sexism.



I think it exists in it's own ways.

Like for example, that if i was a tall blond bimbo I'd have a full time job by now.


And if you were educated your job would be under your competance.

BTW, if you were an attractive man its easier to get work too.


I mean the fact is if my girlfriend ever hits me again I'm not even gonna like bear hug her to try and stop her I'm just gonna sit there and let her do whatever because if I do anything there's a very good chance I'd get charged.

Or you could dump her ...


Be honest.

Job interview.

One candidate. A 23 year old woman, attractive, well dressed, little experience or skills, but a degree. She is perky and can smile.

the next candidate. Same credentials. Homosexual 23 year old male. Average height, a little chubby, shaved head, moderately well dressed. He knows what he can do, but can't always say it in words.

Who gets hired in today's economy in say a sales job, or maybe education? Most likely the woman.

Well if he can't say it in words, then probably he's not getting the job, because those jobs entail saying it in words.

Also if he's selling stuff the guy should be good looking.

Also it depends what they are selling, if they were selling financial stuff, machinery, technical stuff and so on, the dude will ALWAYS have the edge, because of sexism ... your just kind of proving my point.

your saying sexism exists because an attractive and charismatic woman (i.e. qualified) would beat an unnattractive dude that can't speak (i.e. not qualified)? The fact that you would'nt expect that implies sexism (not on your part, in the system).

[9]

I haven't read thru this entire thread yet, but I think agnixie pretty much summed it up on the first page:

Mothers get custody because of the social assumption of motherhood, not because single mothers can afford it, and not because of a rash of institutional misandry. Chances are your single ass would be worth more than your ex' entire household.

The reality is that the oppression of women fucks all working class people, men and women, and that - not "reverse sexism" - is what Goon is observing.

[727Goon]

The reality is that the oppression of women fucks all working class people, men and women, and that - not "reverse sexism" - is what Goon is observing.

I guess that's one way of looking at it, but it just seems weird to say that in these cases where men get the short end of the stick it's still patriarchy. I mean I understand it because ultimately it does stem from sexist attitudes against women (that women are always supposed to be mothers or victims) but it just seems inaccurate to call it patriarchy when men are getting fucked over.

[GallowsBird]

It's also the way that black people generally talk. It's a phrase that the only kids that I know who use it are black and it's common for black women to say "my man". It doesn't mean ownership it's a way of talking.

We generally speak like that in Northumbria (Northern England for the non-initiated) as well, whether we are black, white, green or sky blue pink. I'm not saying I agree with it but it is a common and old usage. Mind you the word "wife" is used for "woman" (from the Old English "wif" and "wifman" meaning "woman"....note that "woman" is actually from "wifman") which many would take the wrong way if they hear it used not realising that it is merely the older usage of the word. "Wifey" is a woman behind a bar (from "alewife", a woman who runs an alehouse).

[Ele'ill]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_28EoZf3pWcw/TS7r9DXGAzI/AAAAAAAACoA/tRq5MVZhrPo/s1600/bimbo-bread-truck.jpg

That looks exactly like a laundromat parking lot and neighboring houses on 72nd ave here in Portland.

[Tim Finnegan]

I guess that's one way of looking at it, but it just seems weird to say that in these cases where men get the short end of the stick it's still patriarchy. I mean I understand it because ultimately it does stem from sexist attitudes against women (that women are always supposed to be mothers or victims) but it just seems inaccurate to call it patriarchy when men are getting fucked over.
Why? "Patriarchy" merely implies the social dominance of men, not necessarily that all men are objectively better off for it. All things considered, most of us are not.