Apologize for my Communist Views???

[libertino]

:blink: I work in a county mental health clinic. The staff, including the supervisor, all made up of mostly Vietnamese. Though I respect them, I realize that they have issues with Communism -- do to their histories. I have a lot of Communist/Socialist memorbillia and propaganda in my office. But I feel uncomfortable when they come into my office. I feel like I might be alienating them. Many of these Vietnamese staff have talked badly about "communists." How should I respond to them? Should I "come out" as a Communist and risk my job or should I keep my politics to myself?

[Rastafari]

thats all up to you. I don't know how closely you value the bonds with these people, but displaying communist "propaganda" in your office isn't usually a good idea. If they've made comments about it, they were probably indirectly aimed at you anyway. Do whatever, man. It all depends on how you really feel.





P.S. no jive to you, but has OI become more of a "Dear Abbie" recently, or is it just me?

[apathy maybe]

If you are a communist, then you should know that Vietnam is not and was not communist. They were a totalitarian socialist country. If they feel uncomfortable, explain what communism is and means, and also what is wrong with capitalism (lack of equality and wreckage of environment). If they are still opposed. Ignore them. You can't loose you job because of your political beliefs (I don't think).

[elijahcraig]

If you are a communist, then you should know that Vietnam is not and was not communist. They were a totalitarian socialist country.

Where do you get this WHORESHIT???

My god I’m sick of fucking “anarchists”. Slinging around the word “totalitarian”. Put down the George Orwell book and study Vietnamese Patriotism, millions died for independence, riddled by IMPERIALIST TERRORISM TO THIS DAY.

You can’t just sling off every country that had trouble as “totalitarian”.

[sliverchrist]

i am with Rastafari.

i don't believe you can loose your job for simply being communist.

if it were me, i would try to talk to those you feel you may be offending, and try to find out how they really feel. if they are important to you, than act acordingly.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Where do you get this WHORESHIT???

My god I’m sick of fucking “anarchists”. Slinging around the word “totalitarian”. Put down the George Orwell book and study Vietnamese Patriotism, millions died for independence, riddled by IMPERIALIST TERRORISM TO THIS DAY.

You can’t just sling off every country that had trouble as “totalitarian”.

i'm with comrade elijah 200%.even raging capitalists and anti-communists(there the same) like my sister love uncle ho chi minh.

[X JoeyNormal X]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 03:40 AM

If you are a communist, then you should know that Vietnam is not and was not communist. They were a totalitarian socialist country.

Where do you get this WHORESHIT???

My god I’m sick of fucking “anarchists”. Slinging around the word “totalitarian”. Put down the George Orwell book and study Vietnamese Patriotism, millions died for independence, riddled by IMPERIALIST TERRORISM TO THIS DAY.

You can’t just sling off every country that had trouble as “totalitarian”.
You, sir, are a twat. The man is correct, even by a Leninist definition.

[Sensitive]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 10:40 PM
My god I’m sick of fucking “anarchists”. Slinging around the word “totalitarian”. Put down the George Orwell book and study Vietnamese Patriotism, millions died for independence, riddled by IMPERIALIST TERRORISM TO THIS DAY.

You can’t just sling off every country that had trouble as “totalitarian”.
Agreed.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

It's more likely that they fear the word "communist" rather then the actual ideas. So I would advise to avoid usage of communist like words, such as proletarian, beourgeoisie etc. Try to come over like a "socialist".

I know it's pretty weird advise, but most people have some sort of mental block against anything communist. You could give the greatest explanation, but they wouldn't listen. Trying to act like a socialist would have much more effectivity in explaining communism then coming straight out for communist.

-CCCP

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

CCCP Posted on Oct 3 2003, 08:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's more likely that they fear the word "communist" rather then the actual ideas. So I would advise to avoid usage of communist like words, such as proletarian, beourgeoisie etc. Try to come over like a "socialist".

I know it's pretty weird advise, but most people have some sort of mental block against anything communist. You could give the greatest explanation, but they wouldn't listen. Trying to act like a socialist would have much more effectivity in explaining communism then coming straight out for communist.

-CCCP
I agree, i assume if they've seen socialist memrobilia in your office they know you at least have an interest in leftism.



Sensitive Posted on Oct 3 2003, 07:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (elijahcraig @ Oct 2 2003, 10:40 PM)
My god I’m sick of fucking “anarchists”. Slinging around the word “totalitarian”. Put down the George Orwell book and study Vietnamese Patriotism, millions died for independence, riddled by IMPERIALIST TERRORISM TO THIS DAY.

You can’t just sling off every country that had trouble as “totalitarian”.

Agreed.

Seconded!

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 10:40 PM

If you are a communist, then you should know that Vietnam is not and was not communist. They were a totalitarian socialist country.

Where do you get this WHORESHIT???

My god I’m sick of fucking “anarchists”. Slinging around the word “totalitarian”. Put down the George Orwell book and study Vietnamese Patriotism, millions died for independence, riddled by IMPERIALIST TERRORISM TO THIS DAY.

You can’t just sling off every country that had trouble as “totalitarian”.
Elijah, if you don't chill out a bit now and then, you're going to have a heart attack before you're 20.

If you stop and think for a second, you have to realize that Vietnam was never a communist country, but rather a socialist country on the model of the USSR, China, etc. (Vietnam is now in the process of moving back to capitalism, as all such regimes normally do.)

The specific word "totalitarian" may bother you--it is a bourgeois fabrication with the original purpose of making Hitler and Stalin part of the "same" paradigm. Naturally, Marxists reject it.

Were I in libertino's shoes, I would proceed to raise Marxist ideas with my co-workers in a cautious way, as "suggestions" rather than "a new revelation".

People hate to be preached at!

At some appropriate time, I would point out that the Vietnamese "Communist" Party could not possibly have been Marxist as communism is not possible in an undeveloped semi-feudal colonial country.

And go on from there...why these countries actually made bourgeois revolutions without a bourgeoisie, went on to develop a strong native bourgeoisie, and finally reached the stage where they "belonged"...capitalism.

By the way, elijah, something in your comment got my attention. Why "whoreshit"? Does it smell worse than any other kind?

Just asking.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[elijahcraig]

Elijah, if you don't chill out a bit now and then, you're going to have a heart attack before you're 20.

If you stop and think for a second, you have to realize that Vietnam was never a communist country, but rather a socialist country on the model of the USSR, China, etc. (Vietnam is now in the process of moving back to capitalism, as all such regimes normally do.)

I never said Vietnam was communist, I was pissed at this 12 year old “Anarchist” calling Vietnam “totalitarian” like he knows what the fuck he was talking about.


The specific word "totalitarian" may bother you--it is a bourgeois fabrication with the original purpose of making Hitler and Stalin part of the "same" paradigm. Naturally, Marxists reject it.

Exactly.


People hate to be preached at!

Unless of course it’s the insi’tefull rev’rend, !


At some appropriate time, I would point out that the Vietnamese "Communist" Party could not possibly have been Marxist as communism is not possible in an undeveloped semi-feudal colonial country.

This has nothing to do with the Party. Ideology of certain Communists is not formed by the status of the country. It may or may not be possible to form this ideology in Vietnam at the time: the point is that they WERE Communists, whether you utopianists would like to say so or not.


And go on from there...why these countries actually made bourgeois revolutions without a bourgeoisie, went on to develop a strong native bourgeoisie, and finally reached the stage where they "belonged"...capitalism.

That’s a very simplistic analysis, RS. Having your country decimated by millions of tons of bombs doesn’t leave much room for economic development.


By the way, elijah, something in your comment got my attention. Why "whoreshit"? Does it smell worse than any other kind?

I’m not sure. It just popped right on into my head when I read Apathy’s moronic statement.

[Ctisphonics]

WHORESHIT, WHORESHIT, WHORESHIT........ I just learned a new word. Strange, I't's not in the Oxford English Dictionary, so I'll have to submit it myself along with a quote from sources.
----

Alright, as I white man of European decent who happens to be a Anti-Marxist, I&#39;m strangely somewhat qualified to anwser this one <_<

My Step-Grandmother is Vietnamese (it&#39;s not what you think, he wasn&#39;t in the war, nobody in the family knows the story between them), and so I have had contact with the Vietnamese community growing up. Though many are patriotic, few are hardcore ideologist- it&#39;s ALWAYS been this way in Vietnam. They strangly enough are much like how Tocquerville described the French before the revolution (The Ancient Regiem and the French Rvolution). The people can be most any religion they want to be, talk about whatever they want to do, so long as it doesn&#39;t transgress the norms set in stone- a stone formed from previous regiems. As long as the state power isn&#39;t effected, they&#39;ve historically been allowed to do anything. Now understand this though from the Asian perspective- they have a long tradition of Hindu, Taoist, Confucist, Buddist mores governing actions, but they are relatively simple if you follow the proper ettiquette.

The reason for tis is very simple. Vietnam is a easy place to conquer, but hard to hold. The Chinese have tried to conquer Veitnam several times in the past (most recently in 1979-80) and always get thier butts whooped in the end, same with Saim and the Cambodians. The villages are practically useless to invest with troops, but at the same time, Veitnam is nothing but villages. The terrain is very hard to maneover, so it&#39;s REALLY easy to cut off a bigger oppenents line of logistics with a few men. So if you don&#39;t hold the villages, and historically, it&#39;s been hard to hold villages where the few troops would be primitively armed and easily taken out by a few villagers. All a defeated enemy would have to do is melt back across the De Jure under the protection of a neighboring state who would treeaten invasion if their territory was tresspassed, and they would wait for a day in the future when the people would tire of the current government, and retake the country. So yes, Veitnam is understandably a totalitarian state, the govenment keep extreamly tight control over anything that threatens it&#39;s power.

However, it&#39;s people are liberal minded (within that Asian Mores realm though). Use this to your advantage. Just understand many of them probable have had family either killed or tortured/abused by the Viet Communist Government, or have first hand experiance of it. It wasn&#39;t a pretty government, but on the otherhand, there has never been a good one in Vietnam. Long after North Korea and Cuba falls, I hope the current regiem in Vietnam stands. If they have a hundred years of relative peace (if they stop picking fights with others and stay out the Spartleys) I think the government will open up a lot and will open up in a way simular to South Korea, but with two significant difference: 1. It will be of thier own doing without outside protection or financing, 2. They will never become an economic powerhouse. Even counting those bombs, Vietnam has few resources, and with the current projections of the technologies we&#39;re likely to have in the future, no real potential for an advance internal logistical lines like Highways and stuff linking factories and farms together to product a Japanese or Taiwanese style infrastructure where everything is imported cept food.

Bide you time, befriend them, serve them, encourage them. Don&#39;t seek to convert, and turn th other cheek. They&#39;ll likely come around to a understanding with you already that&#39;s tolerable. Just don&#39;t expect them to be jubulant with Marxism, or anything else for that matter. And keep them way from your dogs and cats, that&#39;s a story for another day. :D

[Don't Change Your Name]

Don&#39;t forget about the My Lai massacre (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=es&q=my+lai)

[Ctisphonics]

Hum, never heard of the My Lai massacre- I&#39;ll have to read up on that.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 03:05 AM
:blink: I work in a county mental health clinic. The staff, including the supervisor, all made up of mostly Vietnamese. Though I respect them, I realize that they have issues with Communism -- do to their histories. I have a lot of Communist/Socialist memorbillia and propaganda in my office. But I feel uncomfortable when they come into my office. I feel like I might be alienating them. Many of these Vietnamese staff have talked badly about "communists." How should I respond to them? Should I "come out" as a Communist and risk my job or should I keep my politics to myself?
For christ sake, you don&#39;t need to apoligize for your views. Altough hanging propaganda in your office is not really a good idea ;) Be straight to the point, ask them what they think about your views and debate with them, if it is needed. You don&#39;t have to hide away your political views ;)

[Ctisphonics]

No, don&#39;t start off debating with Vietnese, you don&#39;t want to do that. Let them come around to you. Show them that you good, and a friend. NON-TREATENING, but understanding even if misubnderstood. You can convey this by non-verbal means when thier in the office through body language.

[apathy maybe]

Some where I just got insulted because I called the regime in Vietnam totalitarian. I didn&#39;t call Ho Chi Minh a totalitarian; he was however, a Vietnamese first and a communist second (even if Vietnam never achieved communism).

So sure maybe I shouldn&#39;t have called the place totalitarian. Maybe I should have checked my facts.
But Vietnam was/is, anti freedom of belief, and not exactly democratic (but then again neither is the USA or UK etc).

Even if I was wrong it was no need to insult me. George Orwell was a great author and anti-Stalinist for good reason. And there is nothing wrong with anarchists. Even if I am not completely anarchist. And I am not 12, I am 18 and if you don&#39;t believe me there are a couple of members who know me who would be quite happy to attest to that fact. I don&#39;t know why I am bothering to answer you crap though.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Hang a big banner in your office with a hammer and sickle and the words: "COMMUNISM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Hey... at least I&#39;m not a Nazi&#33;&#33;"

--- G.

p.s. below is an idea for a design

[Red Flag]

LOLOL&#33; :lol:

[Silent Eye]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 08:57 AM
No, don&#39;t start off debating with Vietnese, you don&#39;t want to do that. Let them come around to you. Show them that you good, and a friend. NON-TREATENING, but understanding even if misubnderstood. You can convey this by non-verbal means when thier in the office through body language.
ROFL, you make it sound like we are dealing with some sort of wild animal, "don&#39;t worry libertino, they are more afraid of you than you of them. approach slowly and offer food. etc etc"

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Dhul [email protected] 4 2003, 01:13 PM
Hang a big banner in your office with a hammer and sickle and the words: "COMMUNISM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Hey... at least I&#39;m not a Nazi&#33;&#33;"

--- G.

p.s. below is an idea for a design
LOL, well you could always do that or you you could just use this pic like a other board member posted in a other thread, but I have no clue how th add it since


You are not allowed to use that image extension on this board. A valid format is: http://www.domain.com/picture.gif, an invalid format is: http://www.domain.com/picture.one.gif

[Comrade Ceausescu]

GREAT POSTER&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol: