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View Full Version : Capitalism is Fundamentaly Undemocratic



Dr. Rosenpenis
3rd October 2003, 01:28
Most capitalists say that under democracy, the only possible economical system is capitalism. But what they miserably fail to see is that democracy is the rule by the majority, the people! Under capitalism the power of production is appropriated by the bourgeoisie giving them power above all else.

What power are the people given when they are brutaly subjugated by an elite ruling class? What can they possibly achieve from "democratic" elections? What possible influence can the people have upon the ruling class? Many capitalists will reply, "The people have power over their own labour and what they purchase, giving them, as a whole, power of the market." This is as far from the truth as I can possibly imagine! When has it been shown that the people will wield this "power" to regulate corporate America and its oppressive actions? In the world today, besides, Americasn are the leading consumers, and they coudn't care less how workers in Bangladesh are treated. So they're obviously not going to wield their "power" to counter injuitices commited against the proletariat. Many members of the working class, more than you can imagine, have very little choice as to how they wish to survive and who they wish to work for. In most of the world, people would have to jeopardize their already-miserable wages if they were to demand better benefits, wages, etc. Saying that the proletariat has power over their own labor is like saying that a slave has power to determine who his master is---even if it is plausible, it will bring no liberty.

Also working in fuction of the bourgeoisie's class interests is tolerance and acceptance for factions working against democratic treatment of the people, like the KKK for example. In a truly democratic society, what business have those who work in function of fundamnetaly undemocratic interests, like capitalism for example. Those who seek to achieve capitalism have not the interests of the people in mind and threfore have no place in socialist or democratic politics.

Capitalism benefits only the upper class of oppressors, making it fundamentaly undemocratic. So as you can see, the only way in which democracy is possible is through the suppression of a ruling class and the emancipation of the proletariat through revolution.

apathy maybe
3rd October 2003, 01:33
Quite right, but a bit hard to read. could you please edit and place returns in.

Dr. Rosenpenis
3rd October 2003, 01:49
better?

apathy maybe
3rd October 2003, 03:27
Much better, thank you.

And what you say is quite correct.

Who owns the media? It is not the working class in most cases. The rich rule through their control of the media. Leading up to the 2nd Iraq-US/Britian war the Murdoch press in Australia was 100% behind it. Look at what the people think now. they all love Howard and think that he was 'mislead' and didn't really mean to goto war for no reason except he likes prez Shrub's arse.

elijahcraig
3rd October 2003, 03:46
What do you expect? This is the dictatorship by the capitalist class—the ruthless rule of one over another. Just as socialism is the ruthless dictatorship of the proletariat over the capitalist/bourgeoisie.

Dr. Rosenpenis
4th October 2003, 02:20
Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 10:46 PM
What do you expect? This is the dictatorship by the capitalist class—the ruthless rule of one over another. Just as socialism is the ruthless dictatorship of the proletariat over the capitalist/bourgeoisie.
I was trying to make it clear for the capies that capiatlism is a blatant contradiction to democracy.
May I have a reply, capies?
Perhaps a sign of defeat?
Or parhaps you will accept that as a capiatlist you deny liberty and democracy and are in fact a fascist.

Don't Change Your Name
4th October 2003, 03:48
Nice text

And really, capitalism doesnt have democracy. In first place, what people think is not important on it, they cant take direct actions, and the representative system is a disaster, plus the ones who win are usually richie cappies who do mega-campaigns with propaganda everywhere, while the rest of the parties arent even known by the people who vote.

Ctisphonics
4th October 2003, 07:19
Okay, I'll bite, but next time put something more aluring on the hook.

What are you trying to do, convert us with that? What, do you think your going to get any new people on board with that? Mabey 150 years ago when it was fresh, but the vast majority of us know our history, and even if some of the Cappies come here tomess with your heads, I suspect all have their reasons as to why their against Marxism. THat tune you just played been played through civil wars, world wars, cold wars, ect. And what have we seen as a result? A shitload of bloodshed on the red side that was becoming more and more imperialistic and authoritan, reaping distruction with propaganda and poorly thought out ideas economically within thier own territiories, starting colonies in recently conquered lands-----meanwhile in White countries the colonies were lost (at the encouragement of the biggest cappie state of them all), the lifesstyes of the average civilian has increased rapidly, thier becoming more enviromentally friendly, war hardly happens between them anymore, human rights are respected to a much a higher degree comparitvely, ect.

Read this, try to imagine it from my perspective. WY ON EARTH WOULD I SACRIFICE EVERYTHING, NOT JUST MY OWN STUFF, BUT MY COMMUNITIES, FOR A SYSTEM THAT HAS COME UP SECOND RATE EVERY TIME EVER ATTEMPTED? Communist at one time controlled a huge chunk of the globe, had unlimited resources in comparision to thier needs, ect. Why should we trade a Abraham Lincoln for a Stalin, a Jimmy Carter for a Mao tse-dong? What benifits? I need something concrete, not mere rhetoric. I can quote long dead author too, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW, SOMETHING THAT CATCHES THE EYE. What are the Cappies concerns? How do they view communism? This is nothing more than masterbation for Communista, cause you get pleasure from this stuff without seriously engadging with a member of an opposing ideology. This is starting to reming me of the movies of troops talking over a loudspeaker in a POW camp spouting our blah blah propaganda...they get immune to it and even start to make fun of it.

Dr. Rosenpenis
4th October 2003, 14:29
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 02:19 AM
Okay, I'll bite, but next time put something more aluring on the hook.

What are you trying to do, convert us with that? What, do you think your going to get any new people on board with that? Mabey 150 years ago when it was fresh, but the vast majority of us know our history, and even if some of the Cappies come here tomess with your heads, I suspect all have their reasons as to why their against Marxism. THat tune you just played been played through civil wars, world wars, cold wars, ect. And what have we seen as a result? A shitload of bloodshed on the red side that was becoming more and more imperialistic and authoritan, reaping distruction with propaganda and poorly thought out ideas economically within thier own territiories, starting colonies in recently conquered lands-----meanwhile in White countries the colonies were lost (at the encouragement of the biggest cappie state of them all), the lifesstyes of the average civilian has increased rapidly, thier becoming more enviromentally friendly, war hardly happens between them anymore, human rights are respected to a much a higher degree comparitvely, ect.

Read this, try to imagine it from my perspective. WY ON EARTH WOULD I SACRIFICE EVERYTHING, NOT JUST MY OWN STUFF, BUT MY COMMUNITIES, FOR A SYSTEM THAT HAS COME UP SECOND RATE EVERY TIME EVER ATTEMPTED? Communist at one time controlled a huge chunk of the globe, had unlimited resources in comparision to thier needs, ect. Why should we trade a Abraham Lincoln for a Stalin, a Jimmy Carter for a Mao tse-dong? What benifits? I need something concrete, not mere rhetoric. I can quote long dead author too, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW, SOMETHING THAT CATCHES THE EYE. What are the Cappies concerns? How do they view communism? This is nothing more than masterbation for Communista, cause you get pleasure from this stuff without seriously engadging with a member of an opposing ideology. This is starting to reming me of the movies of troops talking over a loudspeaker in a POW camp spouting our blah blah propaganda...they get immune to it and even start to make fun of it.
We're not talking about communism here, lad, we're talking about capitalism. And if you think capitalism is so benevolent, then you have a lot to learn. Millions of people today are killed by torture, murder, assasinations, starvation, thirst, disease, etc., and all because of capitalism. Many modern capitalist regimes have had tendencies to use torture and assasination as a means of maintaining power.

And the standard of living has not increased at all! Just because you see the middle class and the bourgeoisie grow rapidly, doesn't mean the working class is shrinking in size. In fact, this is a very common missconception among capitalists that I would like to see removed. The proletariat is growing at an immensily fast rate, millions of whom die from starvation, disease, thirst, over-working, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.

crazy comie
5th October 2003, 11:56
capitalism is a bourgeosie dictatorship

Vinny Rafarino
5th October 2003, 17:09
We are well aware of your concept of "dicktatorships" Mr. Comie. You have posted this exact thing in numerous threads through out the board.


I don't think there is much need for you to remind us anymore of your feelings toward this subject.

Dr. Rosenpenis
5th October 2003, 19:19
Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 5 2003, 12:09 PM
We are well aware of your concept of "dicktatorships" Mr. Comie. You have posted this exact thing in numerous threads through out the board.


I don't think there is much need for you to remind us anymore of your feelings toward this subject.
Capitalism is a bourgeois dictatorship. Are you denying this, RAF?

crazy comie
5th October 2003, 19:43
hmmm

Invader Zim
5th October 2003, 22:59
Originally posted by Victorcommie+Oct 5 2003, 08:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Victorcommie @ Oct 5 2003, 08:19 PM)
COMRADE [email protected] 5 2003, 12:09 PM
We are well aware of your concept of "dicktatorships" Mr. Comie. You have posted this exact thing in numerous threads through out the board.


I don&#39;t think there is much need for you to remind us anymore of your feelings toward this subject.
Capitalism is a bourgeois dictatorship. Are you denying this, RAF? [/b]
I am, capitalism is mearly a flawed and foolish ideology, to make the rich richer, and the poor poorer. Just because many capitalists happen to be corrupt and instal dictatorships, does not make the ideology any more of a dictatorship than socialism. People create corrupt dictatorships, not ideologys.

Sorry for being picky. :P

Dr. Rosenpenis
5th October 2003, 23:05
Capitalsim has always yielded to the subjugation of the working class by creating class conflicts and giving immense power to the capitalist class. The bourgeoisie oppresses the working class and wields power with the use of fascist policies, making it a bourgeois dictatorship. Capitalism has always created bourgeois dictatorship, even if it didn&#39;t have the clear characteristics of a police state. To me, that makes capitalism a bourgeois dictatorship.

We&#39;re basicaly agreed, so let&#39;s not quibble over semantics.

Vinny Rafarino
6th October 2003, 00:01
Originally posted by Victorcommie+Oct 5 2003, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Victorcommie @ Oct 5 2003, 07:19 PM)
COMRADE [email protected] 5 2003, 12:09 PM
We are well aware of your concept of "dicktatorships" Mr. Comie. You have posted this exact thing in numerous threads through out the board.


I don&#39;t think there is much need for you to remind us anymore of your feelings toward this subject.
Capitalism is a bourgeois dictatorship. Are you denying this, RAF? [/b]
VC,

I was talking to "crazy comie" and his recent development of the word "dick"-tatorship of the proletariat.

Dr. Rosenpenis
6th October 2003, 00:42
Yeah... I always found that strange, and he says he lives in England&#33; :unsure:
Must be an immigrant. Where are you from, comrade?

Vinny Rafarino
6th October 2003, 00:43
I am from Scotland. I now live in the USA.

Dr. Rosenpenis
6th October 2003, 01:01
LOL
I was asking crazy commie, because he speaks English rather poorly, but lives in England.

But where in America do you live? Coming to the protest in DC?

Vinny Rafarino
6th October 2003, 01:12
I spend about half the year in Arizona and the other Half in Mexico. I don&#39;t get out to the east coast that often and when I do it&#39;s usually for business purposes. I pretty much stay away from public protests these days anyhow.

crazy comie
6th October 2003, 15:08
sorry i&#39;m just very bad at spelling.