My folks think socialism is bulls***

[RedMarxist]

I'd like to make a few things clear before I start ranting. I'm 17 and still in school of course. I've decided for awhile now to dedicate myself to [radical] socialism. I specifically would describe myself as Maoist(just check my sig).

Anyways, My folks went bonkers(esp. my mother) when I told them about how I read(and continue to read) Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, etc. and books on socialism. They are both conservative and Republican.

My Mom thought a dictatorship of the proletariat literally was a dictatorship OVER the Proletariat, that Leninism WAS/IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM, and that COMMUNISM SEEMS TO ONLY BRING MISERY AND POVERTY TO ALL AKA CHINA, CUBA, N. KOREA ETC.

Trying to explain to them what communism really is gets me nowhere. They just repeat the good old capitalism is human nature argument, and that there is no alternative, as human nature makes capitalism the only way. Trying to explain that people are people(some are greedy, others altruistic) results in them giving me some pessimistic statement(your an idealist, from what I've seen in this unfair world, that's the way its gonna be[greed], and communism will never take up root in America, Europe, or anywhere ever again because of the USSR's legacy)


Having basically given up on trying to explain my views, I've become disillusioned. I want to work towards building socialism in the states no matter what. I plan to get involved in the communist movement someway(possibly in college) any advice more me?



When I examine the revolutions in Nepal, the Philippines, and India, I see the exploited masses rising up against an oppressive, joyless capitalist system. I want to be a part of this struggle, and am willing to fight to uphold my values. I hope to live to see the day when capitalism will oppress no longer. I am pessimistic that history has ended, and that capitalism is the only way forward. There's an alternative.


If it were possible, I'd go and fight in the Philippines or even India if that meant helping the communist cause. I'm sick of BP, of Monsanto, and of rich landowners bossing people around. I'm tired of the staggering inequality in income, health care, etc. and being told that I'm powerless to stop it, and will dedicate myself to ending that system which oppresses the vast majority of the earth's population. This system we live in is sick and must be-has to be-destroyed.

Comrades, what should I do? how did you get involved when you were young? Any pointers?

[Spawn of Stalin]

Get in touch with like-minded people via CPs, anti-war organisations, students unions, etc. You have little change of getting through to your parents so let them be.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Oh, and don't go off to fight in another country, I know somebody who did this and came back a very very changed person, not for the better. He couldn't speak the local language, the food was making him sick. In the end they sent him home simply because he was so useless to them he wasn't worth feeding. Armed groups do not want you to come fight for them, they do not need you to come fight for them, they need your support and internationalism.

[CommieTroll]

Homeland Or Death Comrade!

[FreeFocus]

Raise awareness of the struggles in India, Nepal, the Philippines, etc. Also, don't worry about converting your parents. You're probably wasting your time on something that won't yield anything whether it happens or not. Focus on educating and improving yourself and getting involved as an adult.

[Obs]

Don't talk politics with your parents, for one. How on earth did you ever think that would be a good idea?

[Zav]

I always suggest that one read through the High School Commie's Guide here on RevLeft. Though it is long, there is a lot of useful info. there.
You should explain to your parents that there is no such thing as "human nature" as nothing is ever common to all humans all the time, and that the closest thing to it is Mutual Aid (see Kropotkin's work on the subject). You could also point out glorious Capitalist Africa and Asia and how well Capitalism is working there. Capitalism invariably involves exploitation, and to supply the American lifestyle, two whole continents are needed.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

You shouldn't worry about them. Talk to your peers and teachers about socialism and try and build fertile ground for when issues/disputes arise in your place of study.

[Ocean Seal]

My Mom thought a dictatorship of the proletariat literally was a dictatorship OVER the Proletariat, that Leninism WAS/IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM, and that COMMUNISM SEEMS TO ONLY BRING MISERY AND POVERTY TO ALL AKA CHINA, CUBA, N. KOREA ETC.

China: Lifespan before Mao: 32 CITATION NEEDED
After Mao: 66 CITATION NEEDED
Starvation Present Before Mao: Yes
Starvation Present After 1961: No
Pre-industrial Society Before Mao: Yes
Industrial Society After Mao: Yes
Industrial Output Before Mao: 1.2 billion yuan CITATION (http://www.focusire.com/archives/249.html)
Industrial Output After Mao: 489.2 billion yuan CITATION (http://www.focusire.com/archives/249.html)


China started out roughly the same as India, yet India still has starvation, is still a pre-industrial feudalist society, and lifespan hasn't increased greatly. So there it is from 1947-1980 100 million people starved in India which dwarfs the numbers that the reactionaries put up for the GLF several times over.

USSR. Pre-industrial society which withstood reactionary counter-revolution, an imperial invasion of 14 countries, and a war against the most powerful nation on Earth which left it scorched to a crisp in 1945. Yet somehow they had the first man in space, and managed to compete against the United States as the leading world power.
Now when has capitalism ever accomplished something comparable? And it lasted for quite a while, if I do say so myself, before Gorbachev went a decided it was time to capitulate to the west.

Cuba. Extremely poor mafia state before Castro. Post Castro.


*Cuba is ranked #1 in literacy rate, coming to almost 100% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vZW4ud2lraXBlZGlhLm9yZy93aWtpL0xpc3Rfb2 ZfY291bnRyaWVzX2J5X2xpdGVyYWN5X3JhdGU=).

*Although the U.S. has a higher life expectancy rate than Cuba by .66 (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwczovL3d3dy5jaWEuZ292L2xpYnJhcnkvcHVibGljYX Rpb25zL3RoZS13b3JsZC1mYWN0Ym9vay9yYW5rb3JkZXIvMjEw MnJhbmsuaHRtbA==), rating the U.S. at 78.11, & Cuba at 77.45, Cuba before the revolution was at 58.8 on life expectancy rate (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnVuaWNlZi5vcmcvaW5mb2J5Y291bnRyeS 9jdWJhX3N0YXRpc3RpY3MuaHRtbA==), meaning it went up almost 20 years of life expectancy when Fidel Castro became president of Cuba.

*Cuba has an infant mortality rate of only 5.1 (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vZW4ud2lraXBlZGlhLm9yZy93aWtpL0xpc3Rfb2 ZfY291bnRyaWVzX2J5X2luZmFudF9tb3J0YWxpdHlfcmF0ZQ== ), compared to the U.S. where it's infant mortality rate is 6.3. Another known fact of this was that, before Fidel Castro became president, the infant mortality rate of Cuba was at 60 deaths per 1000 births (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LndvcmtlcnMub3JnLzIwMDkvd29ybGQvY3 ViYV8wOTE3Lw==).

*When it comes to human poverty, Cuba is ranked at 4.1% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmhlbGxvY3ViYS5jYS9jb21wYXJlLnBocA ==), compared to the U.S. where it is ranked at 12% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm5hdGlvbm1hc3Rlci5jb20vZ3JhcGgvZW NvX3BvcF9iZWxfcG92X2xpbi1lY29ub215LXBvcHVsYXRpb24t YmVsb3ctcG92ZXJ0eS1saW5l).

*If one was to look at the person per doctor rate all around the world, you would find Cuba to be leading the world with a rate of 170, where as the U.S. is at 390 (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vc3RyYW5nZW1hcHMud29yZHByZXNzLmNvbS8yMD A3LzEwLzE3LzE4NS10aGUtZG9jdG9yc3BhdGllbnRzLW1hcC1v Zi10aGUtd29ybGQv).

*The proportion of births that are attended to by skilled health personnel in Cuba is at a remarkable 100% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmdsb2JhbGhlYWx0aGZhY3RzLm9yZy90b3 BpYy5qc3A/aT03Nw==), where as the U.S., although remarkable as well, is at 99%.

*The unemployment rate by country has shown that Cuba is at 1.8% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vZW4ud2lraXBlZGlhLm9yZy93aWtpL0xpc3Rfb2 ZfY291bnRyaWVzX2J5X3VuZW1wbG95bWVudF9yYXRl), while the U.S. remains at 10%, & is growing due to the economic failures taking part in this country.

*Inflation rates in Cuba are at 3.4% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwczovL3d3dy5jaWEuZ292L2xpYnJhcnkvcHVibGljYX Rpb25zL3RoZS13b3JsZC1mYWN0Ym9vay9maWVsZHMvMjA5Mi5o dG1s), leading the U.S. by .4%, where as it is at 3.8%.

*Although the U.S. is leading in improved sanitation rates with an astounding 100%, Cuba is drawing close to the U.S. with an improved sanitation rate of 98% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vbWRncy51bi5vcmcvdW5zZC9tZGcvU2VyaWVzRG V0YWlsLmFzcHg/c3JpZD02Njg=).

*When it comes to percentage of women holding parliamentary seats, which I find to be one of the most important issues of equality today, Cuba is ranked #4 at a percentage of 43.2% (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlwdS5vcmcvd21uLWUvY2xhc3NpZi5odG 0=). Where as the U.S. is tied with Turkmenistan at rank #71 with a percentage of 16.8%. CREDIT IN THIS QUOTE TO MEMBER TheVeganMarxist and ORGANIZATION Cuban Truth Against Lies




Trying to explain to them what communism really is gets me nowhere. They just repeat the good old capitalism is human nature argument, and that there is no alternative, as human nature makes capitalism the only way. Trying to explain that people are people(some are greedy, others altruistic) results in them giving me some pessimistic statement(your an idealist, from what I've seen in this unfair world, that's the way its gonna be[greed], and communism will never take up root in America, Europe, or anywhere ever again because of the USSR's legacy)

Human nature? We're all greedy. I think that the capitalists should publish that in a psychology journal because I'm pretty sure that no one has attempted to prove so ludicrous a claim? Or is human nature merely a reflection of the Mode of Production. We live under capitalism therefore we are greedy. I remember that this is the same argument once used against the capitalists. Bourgeois democracy doesn't work because it is our nature to be "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short". Yet today absolute monarchy is almost eliminated, and bourgeois democracy exists throughly in the West. This is because human nature was based on Feudalism at the time.

Assuming that the human nature argument is true, it bears no relevance to socialism. Explain to them what socialism is?
Capitalism- you go to work. You work for a boss. You make products worth $50 every hour. You get paid $10 every hour. The boss keeps 80% of your pay while not working himself/ herself.
Socialism- you go to work. You work for yourself. You make products worth $50 every hour. You get paid $45 every hour and the $5 go to pay to keep your workplace running.



Having basically given up on trying to explain my views, I've become disillusioned. I want to work towards building socialism in the states no matter what. I plan to get involved in the communist movement someway(possibly in college) any advice more me?

If you're a Maoist then I would advise you to join the PSL (http://pslweb.org/liberationnews/index.html) even though they're Marxist-Leninst because the RCP isn't too great a group (as you can tell by the many Bob Avakian jokes on this forum)


When I examine the revolutions in Nepal, the Philippines, and India, I see the exploited masses rising up against an oppressive, joyless capitalist system. I want to be a part of this struggle, and am willing to fight to uphold my values. I hope to live to see the day when capitalism will oppress no longer. I am pessimistic that history has ended, and that capitalism is the only way forward. There's an alternative.

You will be, in good time.



If it were possible, I'd go and fight in the Philippines or even India if that meant helping the communist cause. I'm sick of BP, of Monsanto, and of rich landowners bossing people around. I'm tired of the staggering inequality in income, health care, etc. and being told that I'm powerless to stop it, and will dedicate myself to ending that system which oppresses the vast majority of the earth's population. This system we live in is sick and must be-has to be-destroyed.

Not the best idea. Chances are these groups won't let you join. Simply because an American traveling to these regions to join a guerrilla movement sounds like a CIA operative/ informant coming in. I would be suspicious of an American trying to fight in a foreign communist struggle. Fight capitalism /imperialism from within.

[Die Rote Fahne]

My dad thinks China is a dictatorship of the proletariat...

I will never debate him, it will just end badly.

[Aurorus Ruber]

Anyways, My folks went bonkers(esp. my mother) when I told them about how I read(and continue to read) Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, etc. and books on socialism. They are both conservative and Republican.

I have pretty much the same problem and I suspect many people on this forum face it as well. In my own experience, I've found that it generally helps to avoid the topic of socialism itself. Most people, especially ardent conservatives, just can't help but misunderstand the whole subject. Remember that they live in a culture suffused with values and myths hostile to socialism, steeped in media controlled by wealthy interests. They have very little positive exposure to the left, let alone revolutionary socialism, but constant reminders from every media outlet and social venue of accepted values and beliefs.

You would probably have better results if you started with something more mainstream and familiar, something with which they might disagree but still understand. You could talk about social issues like racism and unemployment and hint at socialist analyses of such problems without jumping into calls for a protracted people's war against American imperialism. You could also draw on examples from their own experience of capitalist exploitation. They probably won't understand why the political struggles of the Philippines or India matter, but they will understand what you mean if you talk about their boss taking advantage of them.

Above all, you should keep in mind that Marxism and conservatism are extraordinarily different philosophies with radically different assumptions about pretty much everything and their own distinct vocabularies, as it were. Approach political discussions with conservatives as you would a conversation with someone who speaks a different language. You cannot take it for granted that they share your axioms regarding ethics and truth or that they interpret your terminology the same way you interpret it.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Don't talk politics with your parents, for one. How on earth did you ever think that would be a good idea?

Why wouldn't it be? My mother is generally very agreeable, though my father has some strange idea that everyone in the Soviet Union wore green clothes.

[Dumb]

Why wouldn't it be? My mother is generally very agreeable, though my father has some strange idea that everyone in the Soviet Union wore green clothes.

Didn't they? :confused:

[RedMarxist]

My mother says that she 'worries about me' because she's afraid that I'm to radical or something. wtf? She says I should be a supporter of the democrat or republican party, not socialist parties because "there fringe movements"

But don't worry, I've decided what I want to believe in life. Communism. Any paticular CP's/groups/protest movements I could join? Also, what books do you recommend I read(wether it be Marx or Lenin or a contemporary author)

[Tim Finnegan]

My mother says that she 'worries about me' because she's afraid that I'm to radical or something. wtf? She says I should be a supporter of the democrat or republican party, not socialist parties because "there fringe movements"
You should point out that Abolitionism was, even at the time of the Civil War, considered to be a fringe movement. "Fringe" does not mean "wrong".

[Rafiq]

Don't talk to parents about politics, just ignore them. They aren't going to change their opinion.

My advice to you, based on past experience:

More than anything, stay away from Idealism. Smash any attempt of Idealism to get through you. If you become Idealist (which happens when you conflict with parents during debates) you will eventually dump your whole beliefs.

Materialism = Good

Idealism = Bad.

[Terminator X]

But don't worry, I've decided what I want to believe in life. Communism. Any paticular CP's/groups/protest movements I could join?

So, you're a Maoist then, according to your sig? What led you to that particular tendency, out of curiosity? If you're just getting into revolutionary politics, I'd probably take up the banner of a slightly more mainstream tendency, as legit Maoist groups are few and far between. That is, if you really want to get involved...

[nuisance]

Ditch dogmatism.

[pastradamus]

My mother says that she 'worries about me' because she's afraid that I'm to radical or something. wtf? She says I should be a supporter of the democrat or republican party, not socialist parties because "there fringe movements"

But don't worry, I've decided what I want to believe in life. Communism. Any paticular CP's/groups/protest movements I could join? Also, what books do you recommend I read(wether it be Marx or Lenin or a contemporary author)


They have this opinion of radicalism percisely because thats what they have been told for their entire lives. They grew up in the cold war period, day in, day out they were told that anything left-wing was evil.


One of my favourite stories on this subject is one by the famous journalist John Pilger when interviewing a member of the anti-stalinist Czech resistance:


During the 1970s, I filmed secretly in Czechoslovakia, then a Stalinist dictatorship. The dissident novelist Zdenek Urbánek told me, "In one respect, we are more fortunate than you in the west. We believe nothing of what we read in the newspapers and watch on television, nothing of the official truth. Unlike you, we have learned to read between the lines, because real truth is always subversive."

[Rafiq]

If it were possible, I'd go and fight in the Philippines or even India if that meant helping the communist cause. I'm sick of BP, of Monsanto, and of rich landowners bossing people around. I'm tired of the staggering inequality in income, health care, etc. and being told that I'm powerless to stop it, and will dedicate myself to ending that system which oppresses the vast majority of the earth's population. This system we live in is sick and must be-has to be-destroyed.

Comrades, what should I do? how did you get involved when you were young? Any pointers?

Jesus, listen:

Don't think about joining some Maoist guerilla group on the other side of the world, don't try to act like Che, or Lenin, Trotsky, or any of those wierdos.

Do what I do: Learn.

Keep learning. Study the fuck out of Marxism, ect.

Your coming off too Idealist and almost like a preacher.

I tried your tactics and they didn't work, actually, they're disastrous.

What you need to do is learn about Marxism, so you could crush anyone in a debate regarding "how capitalism works". Do your best refuting arguments in favor of capitalism, or things like "human nature" or "Thought Before Matter" or any disgusting crap like that.

Don't sound Utopian. Don't tell people what kind of society you want in the future. Tell them the problem today, and then just say "Look brah, I don't have your solution, but I have your problem".

Because, you don't know what communism is going to look like, I don't know, no one knows, hell, we don't even know if we are going to have communism.

That doesn't matter though. For Marx, Communism was just a process for the abolishment of certain things, and only because communism was very popular during Marx's time, so he basically just hitched a ride on it and made it a weapon for the working class.

Thanks, Rafiq.

[RedMarxist]

They have this opinion of radicalism percisely because thats what they have been told for their entire lives. They grew up in the cold war period, day in, day out they were told that anything left-wing was evil.
\

True. My mother said she remembered growing up experiencing Cold War
paranoia and was told by president after president that 'Communism is evil'

so there you go. Ya, I'm very idealistic. I plan to break that habit and mode of thinking though. Thanks for all of the advice

[Rafiq]

True. My mother said she remembered growing up experiencing Cold War
paranoia and was told by president after president that 'Communism is evil'

so there you go. Ya, I'm very idealistic. I plan to break that habit and mode of thinking though. Thanks for all of the advice

No problem.

The solution to Idealism is reading up on Materialism (it's opposite).

I 'd read:

Bakunin: God and State

Works by Marx and Engels

Stuff by david harvey. ect.

(You could look these up on youtube and watch those too. )

[Spawn of Stalin]

My mother says that she 'worries about me' because she's afraid that I'm to radical or something. wtf? She says I should be a supporter of the democrat or republican party, not socialist parties because "there fringe movements"

But don't worry, I've decided what I want to believe in life. Communism. Any paticular CP's/groups/protest movements I could join? Also, what books do you recommend I read(wether it be Marx or Lenin or a contemporary author)
If you are interested in Maoism, real Marx, Lenin and Mao, read Stalin also. Join the Maoist group (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=10) and ask questions. Learn about the people's wars and Maoist movements in India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Peru, the Philippines. Read the discussions we have had on the current struggles in south Asia (http://www.revleft.com/vb/situation-south-asia-f249/index.html). Read about Chinese history, not just post-revolution but pre-revolution also, learn about the great history of peasants revolts in China. Read anything and everything that Edgar Snow has written about China, I'd especially recommend Red Star Over China, The Long Revolution and Red China Today.

Basically read whatever you can get your hands on that relates to Marxism-Leninism and Maoism.

[red cat]

I'd like to make a few things clear before I start ranting. I'm 17 and still in school of course. I've decided for awhile now to dedicate myself to [radical] socialism. I specifically would describe myself as Maoist(just check my sig).

Anyways, My folks went bonkers(esp. my mother) when I told them about how I read(and continue to read) Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, etc. and books on socialism. They are both conservative and Republican.

My Mom thought a dictatorship of the proletariat literally was a dictatorship OVER the Proletariat, that Leninism WAS/IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM, and that COMMUNISM SEEMS TO ONLY BRING MISERY AND POVERTY TO ALL AKA CHINA, CUBA, N. KOREA ETC.

Trying to explain to them what communism really is gets me nowhere. They just repeat the good old capitalism is human nature argument, and that there is no alternative, as human nature makes capitalism the only way. Trying to explain that people are people(some are greedy, others altruistic) results in them giving me some pessimistic statement(your an idealist, from what I've seen in this unfair world, that's the way its gonna be[greed], and communism will never take up root in America, Europe, or anywhere ever again because of the USSR's legacy)


Having basically given up on trying to explain my views, I've become disillusioned. I want to work towards building socialism in the states no matter what. I plan to get involved in the communist movement someway(possibly in college) any advice more me?



When I examine the revolutions in Nepal, the Philippines, and India, I see the exploited masses rising up against an oppressive, joyless capitalist system. I want to be a part of this struggle, and am willing to fight to uphold my values. I hope to live to see the day when capitalism will oppress no longer. I am pessimistic that history has ended, and that capitalism is the only way forward. There's an alternative.


If it were possible, I'd go and fight in the Philippines or even India if that meant helping the communist cause. I'm sick of BP, of Monsanto, and of rich landowners bossing people around. I'm tired of the staggering inequality in income, health care, etc. and being told that I'm powerless to stop it, and will dedicate myself to ending that system which oppresses the vast majority of the earth's population. This system we live in is sick and must be-has to be-destroyed.

Comrades, what should I do? how did you get involved when you were young? Any pointers?

It is very nice to see that you have already arrived at Maoism at such a young age, and have an internationalist spirit high enough to join the revolutions in the third world. However, comrades from the countries you mention believe that the best way to serve the ongoing peoples' wars is to contribute to or start a Maoist movement in your own country. So the best option for you would be joining whatever radical Maoist CP that is present in your country, and if there is none, then organizing the working class to start one. You should also inform yourself more about Maoist movements and techniques. You are already a member of the MLM group, so you can ask there anything you want to in this context.

[W1N5T0N]

Comrade, I really feel what you are saying! In my school, there are probably less than 10 people interested in socialism, and the majority think that communism = stalinism. In my opinion, that's wrong, stalinism = brutal dictatorship of the bureaucracy over the proletariat. Point is, most of my schoolmates really don't give a sh*t about people in other countries and just say yeah but you are profiting from capitalism too. Which, btw, is also my parents argument. But I always think: Well, what about the other, hmmm, 2-3 billion people NOT profiting for shit from this system? Why do the top 100 richest people hold more wealth than all the rest of humanity together? How the fuck are WE profiting from THAT? (the most common argument against which is "well we can't change it anyway, so might just as well adapt". some people...seriously.) Wish there were more likewise thinking people like you at my school...Most dont give a flying shit about politics, they just wanna get sucked in and chewed out by the system, and don't even know that OUR generation are gonna be indebted for life as well as having to live in a polluted world because of some other generations who just made these choices for us. It's up to our generation to really set things right.

[Rusty Shackleford]

now that all the serious advice has been given, it is now time for silly advice.


start wearing jack boots, budenovka, a che shirt, and olive drab military pants. every time you greet your parents, quote engels on the family.

[Tim Finnegan]

now that all the serious advice has been given, it is now time for silly advice.


start wearing jack boots, budenovka, a che shirt, and olive drab military pants. every time you greet your parents, quote engels on the family.
http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02/wolfie_243x278.jpg

[GallowsBird]

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02/wolfie_243x278.jpg


Hey, what are you doing with a picture of me! :lol:

[chegitz guevara]

So don't argue with your parents.

[The Idler]

The Basics
Oxford University Press
Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction by Colin Ward
Communism: A Very Short Introduction by Leslie Holmes
Socialism: A Very Short Introduction by Michael Newman
Marx: A Very Short Introduction by Peter Singer
Engels: A Very Short Introduction by Terrell Harver

Icon Books/Pantheon/Totem
Introducing Marx by Rius
Introducing Marxism by Rupert Woodfin and Oscar Zarate

New in 2010
The Enigma of Capital by David Harvey
Hopes and Prospects by Noam Chomsky
The Verso Book of Dissent edited by Tariq Ali

[Property Is Robbery]

. Any paticular CP's/groups/protest movements I could join? Also, what books do you recommend I read(wether it be Marx or Lenin or a contemporary author)

I would recommend the PSL because they accepted me as a 17 year old. Also they are very open to and embracing of Maoism.

Someone else mentioned it and it might be interesting to you "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State"

[Rusty Shackleford]

The PSL's tendency doesnt deviate in any real direction from Leninism. Though there are branches where membership can veer off into various tendencies, kinda. Anywhere from maoism to trotskyism, waht i mean by that though is just how people within the party personally view certain revolutionaries. If they were simply about MLTism(just made it up) or MLM then the party wouldnt be for them. why? because membership must adhere to the party's line and ideology and also factionalism is pretty much a no-no.

As for the book by engels, im reading it right now.

[chegitz guevara]

The PSL's tendency doesnt deviate in any real direction from Leninism.

The hell it doesn't. How long would Gloria la Riva remain a member of PSL, let alone one of its leaders, if she published an article in Workers World complaining that PSL was headed the wrong way?

Lenin did just that sort of thing.

[piet11111]

Ask your parents if capitalism is the only system compatible with human nature how come it didn't exist for most of human history ?

And if capitalism is so great how come it only manages to impoverish the masses and rapidly turning the "glorious" USA into a third world country.

And why can such a system be tolerated where the elite are looting the public treasury and only getting encouraged by the politicians ?
where entire country's (iceland greece portugal ireland) are driven off the cliffs to serve the financial aristocracy.

Capitalism is no longer progressive and needs to be done away with.

[Commissar Rykov]

As someone who became radicalized while entering the arena of Wage-Labor I think it is best to keep your ideas to yourself and not share them with your parents unless they voice similar ideals even then keep it quiet. I find having parents who came threw the Cold War especially in the USA they tend to react naturally hostile to Far Left Politics especially communism.

It can lead to needless friction amongst you and your parents and while yours sound way more hardline than my parents it is probably even better in your interest to remain quiet. Get involved and everything else you want to do but just try to keep it to yourself.

[ArrowLance]

I'd like to make a few things clear before I start ranting. I'm 17 and still in school of course. I've decided for awhile now to dedicate myself to [radical] socialism. I specifically would describe myself as Maoist(just check my sig).

Anyways, My folks went bonkers(esp. my mother) when I told them about how I read(and continue to read) Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, etc. and books on socialism. They are both conservative and Republican.

My Mom thought a dictatorship of the proletariat literally was a dictatorship OVER the Proletariat, that Leninism WAS/IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM, and that COMMUNISM SEEMS TO ONLY BRING MISERY AND POVERTY TO ALL AKA CHINA, CUBA, N. KOREA ETC.

Trying to explain to them what communism really is gets me nowhere. They just repeat the good old capitalism is human nature argument, and that there is no alternative, as human nature makes capitalism the only way. Trying to explain that people are people(some are greedy, others altruistic) results in them giving me some pessimistic statement(your an idealist, from what I've seen in this unfair world, that's the way its gonna be[greed], and communism will never take up root in America, Europe, or anywhere ever again because of the USSR's legacy)


Having basically given up on trying to explain my views, I've become disillusioned. I want to work towards building socialism in the states no matter what. I plan to get involved in the communist movement someway(possibly in college) any advice more me?



When I examine the revolutions in Nepal, the Philippines, and India, I see the exploited masses rising up against an oppressive, joyless capitalist system. I want to be a part of this struggle, and am willing to fight to uphold my values. I hope to live to see the day when capitalism will oppress no longer. I am pessimistic that history has ended, and that capitalism is the only way forward. There's an alternative.


If it were possible, I'd go and fight in the Philippines or even India if that meant helping the communist cause. I'm sick of BP, of Monsanto, and of rich landowners bossing people around. I'm tired of the staggering inequality in income, health care, etc. and being told that I'm powerless to stop it, and will dedicate myself to ending that system which oppresses the vast majority of the earth's population. This system we live in is sick and must be-has to be-destroyed.

Comrades, what should I do? how did you get involved when you were young? Any pointers?

I am living a similar situation, only I am two years into that future. I always dreamed how easily I could remove my shame and guilt, that were a product of my inaction, if I were in another person of a third world movement. I knew even then that it was a fruitless prospect and that death and its desire were too convenient and I was undeserving.

I'm sorry to say that I have not yet made myself to live in courage as to my shame and guilt. The mistakes I have made cost others dearly and I am unable to put them behind me.

What I have done is matured in thought and gained the ability to see my ideas in a material way, to apply them to scenarios and current events. Realizing that everyday I am a lived lie, I still have not found a way to change that. Easily I could blame various flaws I see in myself as if they were not in my power and that is large part of the lie we live.

Action is important but also potentially meaningless, and always expensive. It isn't a matter of happiness as much as justice. What action I see that I manage to remove from my self is in how I help others and always find myself as a person looked up to.

I don't believe I am finished and always think, besides of my past mistakes, that I will find away to also take from my self a more pure and direct action. Hope doesn't seem to play any role in this, I see it more as a necessity even an inevitability.

I wanted to make this personal, somewhat of a testament of what I went through. I don't give many specifics because they are unimportant and unlikely to be repeated. I'm sorry if it is hard to follow, I wrote it as I thought it ignoring standard formats because this is how it is dear to me.

Most of all I wish you luck and am sorry if what I did is in anyway distasteful, I'm sorry to say I wrote it mostly for my self.

[MarxSchmarx]

Before you do anything else, and you've gotten some solid suggestions (esp. like avoiding insane, objectively fringe political sects even on the left), read George Lakoff's "moral politics".

I think from what you've posted, your parents can be very nurturing, trusting people who think that other individuals in their in group (like their family, perhaps tehir neighbors) should be helped in times of need. WHat you need to do is articulate that you think that nurturing the creative talent of people is what society should be about.

Their reactionary impulses come from an authoritarian view of the world as a dangerous place that can only be managed by the stern authority of an entity like the market, organized religion, or the state. This is rather common, especially in a viciously capitalist society like America.

What you want to point out is that in their daily lives there are assholes that confirm this view (drunk drivers, sadistic bureaucrats) and there are also plenty of decent people (salvation army christmas bell ringers). Then you point out that you want to increase the number of salvation army bell ringers relative to the number of drunk drivers, and then you've reached some common ground. YOu can point out for example that if government workers didn't have to live paycheck to paycheck, but were there to, to borrow a Maoist phrase, "Serve the people", rather than make sure they don't get fired by following the rules to the letter and gaining some petty pleasure by telling your parents "no", you might just get through to them.

Because let's face it, that's what it comes down to. We believe individuals are inherently good, and it is their social environment that ruins them. Indeed, change society, and we give people the tools to succeed and realize their own worth. Only then is human liberation possible, and such a vision is far preferable to a world where "man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains" because we are so consumed in fear. that is no way to live.

Don't forget that that is a big part of why, as the Mexican radical leftist Emiliano Zapata once said, "better to die on our feet than to live on our knees".

[Property Is Robbery]

The hell it doesn't. How long would Gloria la Riva remain a member of PSL, let alone one of its leaders, if she published an article in Workers World complaining that PSL was headed the wrong way?

Lenin did just that sort of thing.
She wouldn't remain in the party long but that would have nothing to do with tendency. That would have to do with undermining her own party without voicing her concerns internally.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The hell it doesn't. How long would Gloria la Riva remain a member of PSL, let alone one of its leaders, if she published an article in Workers World complaining that PSL was headed the wrong way?

Lenin did just that sort of thing.
the real issue here is whether or not the WWP would actually print anything by a founding PSL member:lol:

[Lanky Wanker]

I got the same reaction from my dad when I tried explaining the whole left wing ideology to him. All he could talk about (and this got really annoying after like the 534,384th time) was the Soviet Union, which makes him a bit of a hypocrite considering minutes before that, he was telling me how he thinks Cuba/Castro/Che is a great example of how communism can/could work. Because he had no valid arguments, the next day when his friend was with him he decided to bring up the issue "oh my son is a commie l0lz let's gang up on him" and let his friend do all of the arguing for him. This friend of his is one of those guys that will ALWAYS win an argument, even if in every single situation he is 100% wrong, because he's a mr know it all. He gave me shit arguments like "so if there's no private property, what's to stop me from taking someone's house if I can justify why I need it more than him/her/them?" which made him think he was like 10 steps ahead of me. At the end of the day, your parents will ALWAYS think they're right over you on big issues just because they're older than you and have control over you. It's the same when I talk to my dad about marijuana; he knows I know far more than him about it (and drugs in general) and admits it, but refuses to see it from a realistic point of view.

[MarxSchmarx]

I got the same reaction from my dad when I tried explaining the whole left wing ideology to him. All he could talk about (and this got really annoying after like the 534,384th time) was the Soviet Union, which makes him a bit of a hypocrite considering minutes before that, he was telling me how he thinks Cuba/Castro/Che is a great example of how communism can/could work. Because he had no valid arguments, the next day when his friend was with him he decided to bring up the issue "oh my son is a commie l0lz let's gang up on him" and let his friend do all of the arguing for him. This friend of his is one of those guys that will ALWAYS win an argument, even if in every single situation he is 100% wrong, because he's a mr know it all. He gave me shit arguments like "so if there's no private property, what's to stop me from taking someone's house if I can justify why I need it more than him/her/them?" which made him think he was like 10 steps ahead of me. At the end of the day, your parents will ALWAYS think they're right over you on big issues just because they're older than you and have control over you. It's the same when I talk to my dad about marijuana; he knows I know far more than him about it (and drugs in general) and admits it, but refuses to see it from a realistic point of view.

So basically you are being trolled by your own parents? Sounds to me like they're just messing with you for fun.

[Catmatic Leftist]

So basically you are being trolled by your own parents? Sounds to me like they're just messing with you for fun.

Agreed. Do some clever counter-trolling, GK95. :D

[ColonelCossack]

Ya, I'm very idealistic.

Do you mean idealism as in, you believe in/agree with ideals? because that's not a bad thing.

However, the idealism that i think everyone else was talking about was more to do with philosophical idealism- the basis of capitalism and religion, which basically states that matter originates in consciousness. One example is that God created people, another is that intellectual labour creates manual labour. BAD.

Materialism, however, is the antithesis of idealism, and it is the basis of all marxism, historical materialism, etc. GOOD.