Was The Koran Plagiarized Off The Bible???

[Rakhmetov]

I thought about this for years and years. It's like the New Testament & the book of Mormon --- a spinoff of the Old testament. What do you think???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucRWhr9gjLg&NR=1

[Sasha]

No, that's like saying the old testament is plagiarism of the torah.
Muslims recognize both Moses and Jesus as important prophets and their books as holyscripture.

[Crux]

That you wasted years and years.

[pluckedflowers]

So, basically, we've got a recording of Hitchens reading off a layperson's introduction to the history of Islam that any of us could have gotten out of a college religious studies survey course. Color me impressed.

For anyone doing materialist history, the answer to your question is rather self evident. The question is why this is a major revelation for anyone? He's not even saying anything educated Muslims themselves don't acknowledge, except he's doing it with a sneer.

I can't help but get the impression that the basic source of liberal (and maybe even Christian) ressentiment toward Muslims stems from the fact that there are people out there who still hold principles. Not that they hold the wrong principles or believe the wrong things (which obviously many Muslims do, to varying degrees), but that they believe in anything at all. As Alain Badiou wrote: "Westerners in general and the French in particular are afraid of death. They are no longer able to imagine how an Idea might be something for which risks are worth taking."

[Leftie]

Plagiarism? :confused:

No it wasn't at all. Muslims believe in the same God and they recognise the same prophets as Christians and Jews but that doesn't make it plagiarism.

[Octavian]

You can't really count them as plagiarized considering a lot of the ideas and stories were floating around at the time anyways.

[PhoenixAsh]

well...considering the Noahs arc story is comming straight from the Assyrians...well..you can consider pretty much that any religious text is in someway drawing from the same ideas and conepts.

[Rafiq]

It's very possible and likely, that the stories in the Koran mentioning biblicical events were taken from the Bible.

[smk]

There was a large amount of contact between Muhammad and the other Abrahamic religions as Islam was developing, as he ran a caravan by profession. It is likely that he was influenced (RE: told by the Angel Gabriel) about these. The quran and Islam itself does not deny that it is related to Judaism and Christianity. Muslims are supposed to regard jews and christians as ahl al-kitab (people of the book).

In other words, of course it was 'plagiarized'. It's an Abrahamic religion. For Muslims, theoretically, it is supposed to be the exact same religion, but has been corrupted with time.

[Wanted Man]

There was no such thing as plagiarism in the 7th century.

[Rafiq]

recently I also found that not only did the Koran snatch elements from abrahamic religions, they also took scientific achievements and theories made by the Romans, Greeks, and the Ancient persians as well, and also even the local Arabs (I.e. the Idea that the Earth is egg shapped, or just round in general was commonly known in Arabia).

[smk]

recently I also found that not only did the Koran snatch elements from abrahamic religions, they also took scientific achievements and theories made by the Romans, Greeks, and the Ancient persians as well, and also even the local Arabs (I.e. the Idea that the Earth is egg shapped, or just round in general was commonly known in Arabia).

I hope this was supposed to be ironic. I don't think the Quran claims to reveal any scientific truths. All the things that it writes about 'science' {that I know of} were common sense even back then.

[Sasha]

To be fair, the notion that the earth was round was accepted fact under any seafaring civilisation also the Christian ones. It being flat was always more of an theological concept than an actually held believe.

[Sir Comradical]

Isn't it just a book of Mohammad's rants?

[smk]

Isn't it just a book of Mohammad's rants?

that would be the hadith. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith)

[Rafiq]

I hope this was supposed to be ironic. I don't think the Quran claims to reveal any scientific truths. All the things that it writes about 'science' {that I know of} were common sense even back then.


It does.

Many Muslim scholors will try to point out the Scientific 'Miracles' in the koran.

[agnixie]

To be fair, the notion that the earth was round was accepted fact under any seafaring civilisation also the Christian ones. It being flat was always more of an theological concept than an actually held believe.

I believe the clergy at the time referred to it as intelligent sphering.

[smk]

It does.

Many Muslim scholors will try to point out the Scientific 'Miracles' in the koran.

Earlier you said that it borrowed (used) science from people who lived previous or at the same time as the creation of the quran. i think most of the 'miracles' that people talk about are the quran 'validating' (with extremely vague wording) modern science.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Im not sure

[Rafiq]

Earlier you said that it borrowed (used) science from people who lived previous or at the same time as the creation of the quran. i think most of the 'miracles' that people talk about are the quran 'validating' (with extremely vague wording) modern science.

Right, some of which is false, as well.

And, in Arabia, these sciences were not common knowledge, to be fair. Muhammad did however, surround himself with very intelligent men, who have read many books on science, liturature, poetry, and the like.

Plus, he was in the family of very wealthy merchants. So if you had wealth, than this kind of stuff was available to you.

[Viet Minh]

No more so than the Bible plagiarised the writings of early Christians, or they in turn plagiarised Judaism, who plagiarised the monotheism of Zoroastrianism. Just think of it as a very long quadrilogy, although I'm hoping for a digitally remastered remake/ sequel, or even better, prequel.

[Dave B]

I was under the impression that Islam ‘accepts’ the old testament and its prophets etc as it does Jesus as yet another prophet or messenger from God etc.

And that Mohammed was just the last prophet and therefore is the final and last upgrade on the matter.

So the issue for Islam is of a progressive revelation of the word of god or whatever.

I think Islam even at its beginning was much more relaxed about the scientific investigation of the world than the Catholic Church was at the time.

Although there is nothing inherent in New Testament Christianity that I can think of that is against scientific investigation or for that matter the Galileo’s view on the nature of the solar system.

In fact I think Galileo successfully used that in his defence.

The ancients had suspected the world was round from the observation of the shadow created by the earth on the moons surface during frequent lunar eclipses.

I seem to remember that they knew it was curved, in both directions, and thus a sphere as well, as opposed to being a flat disc, by the observation that you could see further the higher up you were.

The Greeks I think using trigonometry had accurately calculated its size as well.

They had also speculated that the earth was rotating to explain the apparent and thus illusion that the sun was rotating around the earth.

They knew however that that would mean that the earth was rotating at about 1000 mile per hour.

They abandoned the idea as that would mean there would be a strong easterly wind of about that speed which contradicted observation.

[ComradeMan]

well...considering the Noahs arc story is comming straight from the Assyrians...well..you can consider pretty much that any religious text is in someway drawing from the same ideas and conepts.

Sorry.... I read that it's Vedic.
:tt2:

[Luís Henrique]

There was no such thing as plagiarism in the 7th century.

Ahh! Someone has a sence of history!

Luís Henrique

[ComradeMan]

Ahh! Someone has a sence of history!

Luís Henrique

Well said. I get sick of reading silly net-crusaders all over the place who accuse people of stealing their traditions or stealing their stories etc. What a lot of nonsense...

[Devrim]

Unless you believe that Mohammed did actually receive a divine revaluation, then the only plausible materialist explanation is that the basis of the Koran was influenced by the prevalent myths in the Middle East at the time. Of course Mohammed didn't sit down and copy it as he was illiterate, but as well as there being local Jews and Christians that he could have easily come into contact with he was a merchant and travelled widely across the peninsula where a man with religious interests would have come into contact with religious people. For example, it is recorded that he met a Christian monk in Damascus when he was still only a child.

Devrim