My materialist, atheist, and altruistic ways are taking a toll on me...

[R_P_A_S]

Not to make those 3 things out to be some sort of religious moral code for me. But ever since I started to view the world through a materialist perspective It has not only humbled me but also made me really grasp things better and I'm constantly opening up to new and better ideas, theories and solutions to our conditions.

Now that I'm no longer a sheep to some sky god I also have become more humble and find my self doing more good deeds out of passion for my class, our struggle and the well being of humans. More than I ever did "under god". Since I feel I understand our position in society and how our environment has a lot to do with our present situation.

I am a firm believer in altruism. I believe we are compassionate and naturally cooperative beings. As most of you know this society, the capitalist one is not design for people who think this way to thrive. It's compete, compete, exploit and alienate.

For the last 2 and a half years I've tried my hardest to uphold these values in a capitalist society. At my job, with my family and with my friends and even in love. I gotta admit... I feel really really stressed. I sorta get now why so many people choose bliss over consciousness. Why so many others enjoy having that crutch aka religion and being able to pin shit on "god" or under unexplainable events. I have none of that. I can't just dismiss things and "let god or karma take care of it or give me answers later." I have no such luxury or pretexts.

Am I making any sense?

I was never the type to make excuses or look for scapegoats to avoid my responsibilities or take the blame for things. I consider my self pretty firm and fair. Ever since I started to attempt to live my everyday life with those 3 principles I find my self not giving my self any break. I don't call my self any slack and I'm really harsh and critical on my self. Not only that I also feel that I let people sorta walk all over me.

I've always been an emotional kind of guy. I cry and express my pain just as much as I show my joy. There have been some harsh harsh times for me when I refrain from showing any weakness or complaint/vent about anything because I'm so aware of all the REAL suffering and REAL HARDSHIPS some of our peoples are suffering and dying for out there. I'm lucky.. I really am. But I'm also hopeless because I have no one to lean on... Ok perhaps I'm just rambling now.

I made a post earlier in the weak that I been wanting to meditate. I feel the strain on my mind and w huge weight on my shoulders and I would love to be able to some how let that negative energy out.. or mask it better? I'm too realistic to the point people just call me a pessimist.

In the mornings.. 4 times out of the 7 days I contemplate the possibility of dying in a car accident or shooting... yet I never contemplate the possibility of good things happening to me.

A very close friend of mine who's very spiritual tried to make the case, that I'm a negative person but my fight and my on going desire proves against that. I give so much, I take very little. I want and work for the best of others if I can help.. How's that negative?

"You have to visualize positive things and that great things will happen to you and they will"... that shit does not fly for me. I just can't sit there and pretend...

What do you guys do if you feel this way? What's your "way out" or your form to cope with it all?...

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Very interesting post. You are obviously a very thoughtful, caring person. I would agree that much of the new age "visualize world peace" meme is shite, oriented towards upper middle class yuppie types.They can be very irritating. I would say though that meditation can be very helpful in relieving stress.I've found "How To Meditate" by Lawrence Leshan is a good intro, You don't have to buy into the metaphysical/religious baggage surrounding a "spiritual practice" the exercises alone can be be soothing.

Other things-dancing, even by myself is a lot of fun, listening to classic rock on youtube till 3 or 4 am can be fun. Writing about what your stressing or depressed about can be good, I have a friends only livejournal just for this purpose. Its enormously cathartic.
Crying can also be very cathartic. A long story, I was in Prague once with some friends at a club. I was under a huge amount of tension from my work environment at the time and dealing with some "family issues". Okay I got kinda drunk. The club kept playing Rage Against the Machine, great music but its always elicited a tremendous amount of anger, even rage in me whenever I listen to them. Anyway half the evening I sat on the toilet, cying. I didn't know why I was. The next day I felt an enormous relief, like a new person.


Goofing around with friends. Sometimes "enlightened selfishness" can be healthy, if not taken too far.I have a very sarcastic sense of humor-a few years ago I went with a friend into a Mormon church and pretended to be interested in converting (which was furthest from our minds). We pretended not to speak any English.The staff desperately tried to find someone to communicate with us. It was hilariously funny, at least to us. Carrying this to far can be mean spirited, which is not good either, but...

Anyway this may be helpful

http://www.amazon.com/How-Meditate-Self-Discovery-Lawrence-LeShan/dp/0316880620

[R_P_A_S]

I appreciate you taking the time to read it and share some of your personal experiences. I too don't wanna get caught up in all the metaphysical BS that some of these meditation practices include. I need to check out that book.

[Rafiq]

If humans are naturally altruistic why do capitalists exist? BecAuse humans aren't. Or anything else for that matter

[Minima]

This category of feelings for me are a hair`s breadth away from the best kind of energy i know in myself. When I am really frustrated and I am working as hard as I can, I find a determination stronger then anything I know. It is sometimes enough in bad times for me to identify with this struggle itself. We know that when we pick this road, we are sure that life may not be at all pleasant for us but we would not live any other way, given a second chance.


The best way to sublimate anger, frustration and or helplessness is to provide a narrative, and most people settle with a fantasy. There is of course, truth in this world, and you can steel your will and resolve towards it through the determination that results from those same feelings.

[Minima]

Some of my prescriptions for your melancholy my friend
-Hard hard work - in whatever your field, your intellectual engagement with marxism/philosophy
-As one of my friends recommended: (as a materialist you should understand!), take care of yourself, get some sleep, eat healthy, get some exercise, etc. Perhaps take a break from revleft.
-I highly highly recommend engaging (fictional) literature on the subjects you are interested in (as an emotional and narrative supplement), novels like Hemingway `s on the Spanish civil war - for whom the bell tolls. Fitzgerald`s the Great Gatsby,

I`m sure my fellow revlefters can contribute!

you`ll come through comrade!

[blake 3:17]

Some of my diagnoses for your melancholy my friend

You meant 'prescriptions', not 'diagnoses'.

[thesadmafioso]

You might want to consider dropping the "altruism is human nature" drivel, as it doesn't really help to understand and thus handle the idiocy bred by capitalist society. I also imagine that not having your image of humanity crushed by interaction with reality on a daily basis might help a bit.

Or I suppose you could meditate your way through the trials of life, best of luck with that route.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Stop trying to feel "special" because of what you believe.

I'm a religious person and have plenty of experience with meditating on the impermanence of flesh/the world.

Get some counseling if you suspect you're depressed, otherwise, suck it up and recognize that you're not the only, special person in the world with the problems you have.

[Reznov]

I enjoy playing video games and cussing people out on Xbox Live and debting them on god knows some of the craziest shit you will ever hear being debated.

I also enjoy a drink, maybe its my body or me, but I feel great the day aterwards (As long as there is no hangover of course haha ;)

But alas, I think you just need to chill out, stop thinking of yourself as some character in a book fighting to uphold morals and just fucking relax and dont give a shit anymore. When is that last time you just fucked around and didn't care? Just eating and doing what you want because you want to, not because of some ideological struggle?

I can tell by the way you type tht you are way to stuctured and stiff, loosen up and have some fun! Just forget about upholding your materialist atheist and altruistic ways, and I promise if you do and then come back, its like looking at your life from a fresh new perspective.

[punisa]

I really enjoyed your post and I bet there are many people out there who feel the same way you do. Myself partly included.
You went through a huge thinking phase last 2 and a half years and now reach a stage where you have to draw the line and review what you have discovered, in a way.
You gave up on a "belief" that there is a God above, good for you. But why force another belief? That all people are in essence good and altruistic? It just so happens that they are not. And this is not such a big problem and it certainly does not mean that you should start acting differently because of that.

Another thing is that you basically strayed away from the flock. By thinking critically about the world around us you will soon become very isolated from the majority of people who prefer not to think about anything!
Now this can be a hard one. I don't think any meditation can fully help you.
Maybe the best comfort you can get is to enjoy the fact that you understand some things and forces that others are blinded by.

But overall I can understand your situation very well. For example, how can you even form a long lasting relationship with a person who honestly believes capitalism is the perfect and just system?
I can't do this myself. I can try, but eventually I will walk away.
I had friends and family members who thought I was going crazy when I claimed that workers should control the means of production, really :lol:

In the end it makes you sad, all of this. Especially when you think about it that if just people would for once in their lives stop being blind and so ignorant - all could change for the better.

I don't how old you are, I will guess late 20s, 30s (I am). I think the worst scenario that could happen is that you eventually regret taking the road less traveled.
There is nothing better in life then understanding the things around you. Yeah, it will piss you off and even make you feel lonely, but I believe it is worthed. I would never go back to the years when I believed God lives in the sky and the meaning of life is to get a good paid corporate job :)

[CommieTroll]

Right now I'm using Weed, its a pretty bad way to deal with things but what else is there to do?

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

http://youtu.be/CJ57Ej8nAJY


I seem to of felt similar to you. The constant pressure to be a good person. It can mess you up.

That said, I don't feel it is right to accept that you should be a "little" mean or whatever, you've got to keep striving to be good. And I don't think its a matter of giving yourself a break. I think you've just got to realise that;

A) Emotions are emotions. They aren't always right, or justified, or make sense according to your moral code. It sounds a bit like you've been repressing your feelings, due to wanting to be a better person, but I think the key is that you realize having bad feelings don't mean you're going to act on them, or that you agree with them..they're just..feelings, can't always be easily accounted for or justified and so having bad feelings doesn't mean you're any worse for having them and so they don't need to be repressed.

2) Secondly, if your concerned with being walked over? I don't know, I think most people who are happy don't care too much if someone isn't as nice to them as anyone else or something? Ideally you'd just find a group of people who were nice to you and had a compatible morality?

[a rebel]

Don't cover up your feelings, if your angry your angry, if your sad then your sad. And my advice would to start drinking, and complain to your lady friends. But you seem to be above being a drunk, so I don't know what to tell you.

[MarxSchmarx]

It's the company you keep.

I know this sounds like an absurdist thing to say, but where do you live?
There are places where I have not been treated particularly friendly, where people are cold, and even in places where people are outright hostile to me.

But there are a ton of communities where people are good to each other "just because" - where they are kind, and where there is a given and take and a natural rhythm of life that revolves around friendliness and "looking out for each other", and this comes through in the way they treat other people.


One place where I found this to be the case was in a very rural area of a developing country. It was a neglected backwater, and the people I was working with had some really crummy arrangements. Plus the men would drink down their meagre earnings on pay day, which was depressing. I was sent there for work for a few weeks, I come from an urban area and of course I didn't know the first thing about things like your car getting stuck in the mud (incidentally missionaries also came by). And my neighbors were friendly - everyone that passed by tried to help, they joked around about it, once you got a rapport going you could see, as it were, the goodness of people. I was impressed. And after a few months living in that setting, you realize you reciprocate in kind, when you see someone whose car broke down you try to help them - because that's just what people do.

I think if you spend a few months in a place like that, you'll mellow out and come to appreciate that yeah, people are basically good, you want the best for everyone. At least I did, it was a pocket that reminded me that the world is still ok and that people can be very reasonable and non-hostile.

[HammerAndSickle1]

Sounds like your going through depression that may or may not be related to your intellectual liberation. The best way would be to seek some therapy and try to ride this out. Hope you feel better man.

[TelevisionIncarnate]

Meet like minded people who you can discuss and debate and share your beliefs with. Works for me. I also never get the tendency to kill myself, maybe because I am so young, but also because I see suicide as such a waste of life. If you finally understand that the world you live in is completely wrong, then killing yourself would be completely irresponsible towards your fellow humans who need your help.

[infearoffear]

Stop trying to feel "special" because of what you believe.

I'm a religious person and have plenty of experience with meditating on the impermanence of flesh/the world.

Get some counseling if you suspect you're depressed, otherwise, suck it up and recognize that you're not the only, special person in the world with the problems you have.

That's right, suck it up and quit being such a sissy, maybe you should try being a real man like Franz Fanonipants:rolleyes:

Anyways as far as actual advice I don't really know what to tell you, I feel the same way sometimes, it sucks and sometimes all I can really do is just take a break from everything. Like it doesnt really help much coming on revleft or reading other political materials dealing with oppression and all the bullshit and terrible things that are happening in the world. Reading about certain things just makes my blood boil and fills me with rage or at worst leaves me feeling completely powerless, hopeless, and depressed over things that I can't change. I would imagine it's probably not healthy to feel that way all the time, and it's certainly not pleasant. Sometimes you just need to take a break from all that and just take some time to chill out. I mean I hate to say that, I know it makes me sound like I'm just burying my head in the sand but I'm just trying to keep my sanity

[infearoffear]

If humans are naturally altruistic why do capitalists exist? BecAuse humans aren't. Or anything else for that matter

If humans aren't naturally altruistic then why do socialists, or any sort of selfless acts of goodwill for that matter exist at all in humans? Is it because we've been "civilized" through our education or upbringing? If so then who taught those people educating us to be "civilized"? And the people before them and so on? What I'm getting at is where did altruism originate if it goes against human nature?

BTW I think the whole "human nature" argument is just a BS excuse people make to justify certain actions and ideologies. There is no "human nature". Humans evolved in an environment in which both altruistic and selfish traits could be favorable at times. Human behavior isn't black and white.

[Principia Ethica]

Thanks for sharing this :) I'm glad to see I'm not the only one the wrestles with these type of thoughts and feelings.

[Summerspeaker]

What do you guys do if you feel this way? What's your "way out" or your form to cope with it all?...

Loving revolutionary community. This doesn't exist for me yet, but I seek it constantly and experience brief hints in the form of passionate personal connections with other radicals. Best wishes to you for navigating the nightmare. I recommend moving away from the harsh self-criticism. That's what the bosses want: for us all to discipline ourselves and never feel comfortable or at peace.

[Geiseric]

I had a phase from 8th grade through junior year where I was a pessimistic asshole, and everybody nowadays thinks i'm wierd\dumb since I don't know shit about modern pop culture, which i rejected almost wholesale during sophomore year. i regularly listen to older rap, heavy non mainstream metal, and classic rock, and most stuff that's the result of ingenuity and music before it was corporatised. I mean, i've been looking at things through a materialist perspective for about 2 years, and although it's frustrating, usually I try to find some kind of satire or rediculousness in whatever i'm doing, hoping that what it is is made from some intellectual capacity and not some collection of fart jokes or a firework show. i mean, it's kinda depressing. I've never had religeon, not been to church one day in my life. Not to sound like a dick, but i'm in the perfect lifestyle, (working class, no religeon at all, parents aren't married, alcoholic forefathers) to get how stuff is.

[R_P_A_S]

i got some good people on this forum! wish we could out hang in real life! thanks for reading and your words!

[ColonelCossack]

If humans are naturally altruistic why do capitalists exist? BecAuse humans aren't. Or anything else for that matter

But nor are we naturally selfish because communists exist, and people give to charity. :p

[Mitja]

i also meditate it really helps you 20 minutes before bed and in the morrning for about 15 minutes. And i listen to Smooth Jazz,Fushion Jazz while i meditate.


If you have such problems its best to take your mind of them. Start with some sports,extreme sports my fav. is wildwater kayaking. This realy helps.


p.s: i had similar problems like you i know how you fill

stay free man!

[Tim Cornelis]

If humans are naturally altruistic why do capitalists exist? BecAuse humans aren't. Or anything else for that matter

Humans have a natural tendency of altruism, sociability, and empathy, but it is not inevitably, or intrinsic.

[GatesofLenin]

A very close friend of mine who's very spiritual tried to make the case, that I'm a negative person but my fight and my on going desire proves against that. I give so much, I take very little. I want and work for the best of others if I can help.. How's that negative?

Doesn't sound much like a friend to me. How can one be "negative" when you're actually dealing with situations that come up in life unlike your religious "friend", who runs to God for an answer everytime life goes awry.

[Rocky Rococo]

Humans have a natural tendency of altruism, sociability, and empathy, but it is not inevitably, or intrinsic.

One thing that makes being human wonderful is that there is basically nothing that is entirely intrinsic or inevitable about who we are and what we do. Our peculiarly developed consciousness even allows us to overrule the genuinely intrinsic desire of our DNA to survive and reproduce, as plenty of humans choose to do otherwise with regard to one or both.

[dodger]

Don't be a saint. We sleep 8 hrs a day ....we work 8 hrs a day...ok ...you do the maths. you seize your life back. FIGHT STRESS with STRESS....If you have a physical job ..jump into something cerebral that stretches you. Absorbs all your concentration. Forget all your negative thoughts, by absorbsion in other persuits. Your mind will be elsewhere. If you have a mentally exacting job ....try a sport or hobby that stretches your body. If you live in the town ...visit and enjoy the countryside. If you are @[email protected] in some dormitory town or in the middle of nowhere....head for the city, bright lights...live performances music plays uplift the spirits. Learn a musical instrument. Just never, never ,never try to be a saint....it's too much like hard work.!! Not as hard as being evil though..........................

The Mask Of Evil by Bertolt Brecht

On my wall hangs a Japanese carving,
The mask of an evil demon, decorated with gold lacquer.
Sympathetically I observe
The swollen veins of the forehead, indicating
What a strain it is to be evil.

(won't do any harm to think about immediate familly,
any history of depression?)
My dad was clinically depressed...alcohol, tranquillizer dependent....not written in stone I had to follow him down that road. Many do though.....

[thefinalmarch]

But nor are we naturally selfish because communists exist, and people give to charity. :p
I don't think rafiq implied selfishness is an innate trait of humanity at all.

[Marxaveli]

This topic greatly resonates with me personally. Being a Marxist in a capitalist world brings a sense of both liberation and of being trapped. Liberation in the sense that you become much more of a free thinker than most people, by realizing the material conditions of the world and nature around you that most other people fail to understand, let alone make sense of. But the liberation of your mind brings about the cold, harsh realities of the capitalistic system. It makes me feel overwhelmed, and even when I'm not thinking about it, there is always an underlying tension in the air. I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, my stress level has increased, and view of the world has made me more pessimistic. It's akin to being blind all your life, then suddenly you are granted 20/20 vision and you see how ugly the world is, and you are further frustrated because you know it CAN be so much better.

In a lot of the debates I've had with non-radicals (including even a few right-wingers) about Marxism, some of them love the idea but feel it is impossible for it to ever happen. Not just the human nature argument, but that because they view it as unrealistic. But it is that very attitude which holds us back. Just because something seems impossible to achieve does not mean it should be discarded. It is the so-called defeatist attitude, thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I do not believe that humans are necessarily altruistic or greedy by nature, quite often it seems we are both. Our nature is determined by the nature of things around us, and thus our values, principles, and ultimately our ideology is largely manifested from the social norms, institutions, and even from powerful individuals within the system. Not to mention economic conditions. In other words, we are usually a product of our environment. Capitalism, our current system, promotes greed, power, profit, and social darwinian principles, thus many people have these attributes. Many are led to believe then that we are greedy and selfish by nature, when they really just a byproduct of the system they are in. It is what shapes and defines our culture. But even variations within a single system can greatly change a societies values and principles thus their views of the world and culture can greatly differ.

[Azraella]

You have friends, a better future to strive for and... a lesson to learn.

A major lesson in life is loss. We have to learn to lose what was not just ours, but ourselves.

We carry our pain and faults, our disappointments and guilts, our anguishes and regrets around like a backpack full of rocks. Death allows us to put it down. But there is nothing preventing us from choosing to put it down while we live. We can sit and rest a while. We can open the damned pack and sort through the rocks, making a pile. We can empty the pack. We will find some diamonds at the bottom which we can keep. Then we can continue on our journey with a lighter step.

I do not see your way as working. It is your way and only you can change it. But it seems to me that you are carrying far too much. I have said before that much of you has to be put down and left behind along with the strategy for coping that doesn't work.

My great and honorable friend Amfortas sends his regards. He knows how to suffer. He had the "Wound that Doesn't Heal". It was a wound brought about by his failings. It is his punishment. A consequence of his aquiescence to sensuality.

But he could be cured by the youthful Parzival. His suffering has an end. It requires Parzival, the foolish boy, the pure, to extend himself into realms for which he is not equiped and so has a long struggle too. he has to find secrets and treaures deep within himself; through the world within.

You have a deep wound. You are Amfortas: and you are your Parzival.

We all have both within us. One can cure the other.

Like Parzival, we have to ask the right questions with that purity of heart. We have to know compassion and humility. That requires us to suffer to gain the needed understandings.

But Parzival learned. He had wise friends. Good teachers who could not do it for him but could tell him what to seek and how to act.

(sorry for the metaphors but I think it gets the points across)

[ColonelCossack]

I don't think rafiq implied selfishness is an innate trait of humanity at all.

... I knew that. Hence the " :p ". I'm not that dim... :p

I was jus' sayin', so to speak. :D

I do love my emoticons, don't I? :bored: