Iran's repression of Bahai, Sufis, Christians

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13397095


Fears for Iran's jailed minority Bahai leaders

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52716000/jpg/_52716632_dsc00943.jpg Jamaloddin Khanjani, right, with late wife Ashraf, was sentenced to 20 years in prison
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Saturday marks the third anniversary of the imprisonment of seven leaders of Iran's Bahai religious community. BBC Persian's Kambiz Fattahi in Washington says their treatment reflects the situation faced by many minority groups in Iran.
In March, Ashraf Khanjani passed away in Tehran at age 81.
Hundreds of people attended her funeral, but her husband, Bahai leader Jamaloddin Khanjani, was not among them.
Instead, he was in prison, barred by Iranian authorities from attending the ceremony.
Mr Khanjani is one of seven imprisoned leaders of Iran's Bahai community, the country's largest non-Muslim religious minority, which Iran's Shia Muslim political and religious establishment views as a heretical sect.
He, Fariba Kamalabadi, Mahvash Sabet, Afif Naeimi, Saeid Rezaie, Vahid Tizfahm and Behrouz Tavakkoli were sentenced last year to 20 years in prison, after their conviction on charges including co-operation with Israel, propaganda activities against the Islamic order, and "corruption on Earth".
That conviction by a branch of the Revolutionary Court in Tehran sparked an international outcry. The UN, the US and the EU have called for their release.
Human waste Nobel Peace Prize laureate and human rights lawyer Shirin Ebadi says her former clients are innocent.
"If an impartial judge were to try them," Ms Ebadi said, "they would be freed immediately."
Critics of Tehran say the persecution of the adherents of the Bahai faith has a political character. Human rights activist Ali Afshari says as a theocracy, Iran considers the growth of other faiths a serious threat to its existence.
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13397095#story_continues_2) “Start Quote

I try to edit conversations so there is nothing that would be seen as incriminating”
Nika Khanjani Niece of detained leader
"If it leaves the space open, religious minorities will grow that would harm the stability and existence of the political system," says Mr Afshari, who lives in the US.
Meanwhile, the two women in the group - Ms Kamalabadi and Ms Sabet - were recently sent to Qarchak prison, 40km (25 miles) south of Tehran, a move that worries their family and friends.
Ms Kamalabadi's brother, Iraj, says the prison is overcrowded and filled with human waste due to inadequate plumbing.
He says its 300 to 400 prisoners are crammed into one large room with no fresh air.
Mr Khanjani's niece, Nika Khanjani, an American citizen living in Canada, says she cannot freely communicate with her cousins in Iran.
"It is almost as if we are always speaking with an audience on the phone line," she says. "I try to edit conversations so there is nothing that would be seen as incriminating.
"For years they were saying 'thank God everything is fine', even though I knew it wasn't fine. They knew I knew it wasn't fine. In the past year their voices express a lot of exhaustion, fatigue and sadness."
Iranian officials dismiss claims of systematic discrimination against Bahais and say no groups are persecuted on religious grounds.
But the experiences reported by evangelical Christians and non-Shia Muslims belie that assertion.
Earlier this year, Tehran Governor Morteza Tamaddon publicly denounced Iran's evangelical Christians as "deviant" and "corrupt".
An estimated 100 evangelical Christians are currently imprisoned in the country, Iranian Christian activists say. Among those is Yusef Naderkhani, convicted of apostasy and sentenced to death in the northern Gilan province.
Rights groups say members of Iran's Nematollahi Gonabadi Sufi Order have also come under heavy pressure, and many of their places of worship destroyed.
Sunni Muslims in Tehran have long complained authorities will not permit them to build a mosque.
In the past year, roughly 200 Sufis, or dervishes, have been charged with insulting Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and acting against the country's national security, says Mostafa Azmayesh, the Sufi order's spokesman outside Iran.
Although Mr Khanjani and the other Bahai prisoners are being held on political and security charges, Ms Ebadi says Iranian Bahais have no involvement in politics.
Mr Azmayesh makes a similar point. "Dervishes in Iran are being oppressed because of their belief in the separation of religion and politics," he says.

I've heard of the repression of Bahai in Iran before, but I thought this article was interesting because it shows how the repression really extends to anyone who doesn't fit within the Shiite clerical world view. It's ridiculous that anyone on the actually thinks this government is revolutionary. It's as right-reactionary as you get.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

As the Iranian regime appears to be gradually imploding or at least lost much credibility is there evidence that the religious persecution is increasing of late? This could be a diversionary tactic similar to the recent security fomenting Muslim-Copt tension.

[Franz Fanonipants]

tbh the Ba'hai are some of the most ardent counterrevolutionary people on earth, from my limited interactions with them.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

tbh the Ba'hai are some of the most ardent counterrevolutionary people on earth, from my limited interactions with them.

Um ... how? Also, that's kind of a scary statement ... it's like a leftwing inversion of "Jews are the most ardent communists on earth" etc. So you met some counter revolutionary bahai, that doesn't mean bahai are necessarily counter revolutionary (or that the revolution they are seeking to counter, ie the Iranian one, is a particularly just revolution)

[hatzel]

tbh the Ba'hai are some of the most ardent counterrevolutionary people on earth, from my limited interactions with them.

I think that's a slight misinterpretation of their general position (though of course I can't speak for a whole group of people, I can only speak about their actual religious teachings, which is the closest we can get to a 'Bahá'í opinion'). They are religiously apolitical, that much is true. It's in their religion, don't get involved in politics, and yes, don't go around smashing states and the like, because it's just causing a load of antagonism, particularly for themselves. However, the fact that they also happen to be all about universal equality, world peace, anti-prejudice etc. (I mean, that is their whole thing) means that they're not counter-revolutionary. They just don't get involved. But if you think they're going to be countering the revolution...no, because they stay out of politics. They're arevolutionary, they are entirely neutral to it (but wouldn't be happy with it if it were characterised by violence, prejudice, inequality etc., as they oppose that). They go deeper than that, they address the underlying human causes. If I can quote from Shoghi Effendi, their former Guardian:


There is, however, one case in which one can criticize the present social and political order without being necessarily forced to side with or oppose any existing regime. And this is the method adopted by the Guardian in his 'Goal of a New World Order'. His criticisms of the world conditions beside being very general in character are abstract; that is, instead of condemning existing institutional organizations it goes deeper and analyzes the basic ideas and conceptions which have been responsible for their establishment.Still, this is the discrimination forum, rather than the religion forum, so I shouldn't dedicate myself to discussing the details of their religion...

Oh, and @Lenina: I don't know if there's all that much of an increase. That is to say, I don't know how it was before. The outright executions and stuff of previous decades seem to be on the way down, but just the other week the authorities raided a few dozen houses, arresting people who had been offering education to Bahá'ís (as they remain forbidden from partaking in official education)...so it's still pretty clear that there's a lot of oppression going on. When it comes to the Bahá'ís, many of them find themselves arrested and charged with being 'spies for the Zionist regime' for example, a charge probably helped by the fact that their central...ah...not shrine, but their Mecca or Jerusalem or whatever just so happens to be in northern Israel. I'm sure that the Iranian regime was very happy about this little coincidence, as it helps in their 'proof' that the Bahá'ís are enemies of Iran, which fosters popular opposition.

It is clear that a lot of the oppression of the Bahá'ís, as an example, isn't even directly undertaken by the State, but is just people vandalising property, under the illusion that they are the 'enemy'. Of course the authorities do very little to stop it or identify the perpetrators, but it makes it very difficult to measure the level of oppression from the State, when they merely convince the people to do their dirty work for them...but yes, if you're talking about dividing the people, directing popular frustration towards these minority groups (of which the Bahá'í are the largest), I feel that it is an intention of the Iranian regime at present, and they seem to be having some success with it.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Um ... how? Also, that's kind of a scary statement ... it's like a leftwing inversion of "Jews are the most ardent communists on earth" etc. So you met some counter revolutionary bahai, that doesn't mean bahai are necessarily counter revolutionary (or that the revolution they are seeking to counter, ie the Iranian one, is a particularly just revolution)

Almost every baha'i I've met is a strident zionist, conservative, pro-capital etc.

Of course, yeah, you can't expand that to the global mass of baha'i, I'm sure there's probably proletarian baha'i somewhere but the conversations/encounters with baha'i I've had pretty much left me cold.

[RedSunRising]

Almost every baha'i I've met is a strident zionist, conservative, pro-capital etc.


Actually strident zionism is part of their religion which is the reason they are running into trouble in Iran.

I mean Israel has nuclear bombs aimed at Iran so it is kinda understandable!

[Franz Fanonipants]

Actually strident zionism is part of their religion which is the reason they are running into trouble in Iran.

I mean Israel has nuclear bombs aimed at Iran so it is kinda understandable!

Yeah.

Their line on the Palestinians is basically what pretty much permanently alienated me from my baha'i friends. Which is sad, several of them, politics aside, were very kind people.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Actually strident zionism is part of their religion which is the reason they are running into trouble in Iran.

I mean Israel has nuclear bombs aimed at Iran so it is kinda understandable!

Yeah, and the Muslims all support Osama, America should spy on them to keep the terrorists from nuking us :rolleyes:. Accusing a group of collaboration with a foreign power based on some (almost always overly simplistic) generalizations is discrimination. This shouldn't be an issue. This is true for Bahai as well.

The discrimination is more theological ... the theocratic government thinks the Bahai are apostates. This is why one particular religious community should never have a monopoly on political power over another.


Almost every baha'i I've met is a strident zionist, conservative, pro-capital etc.

Of course, yeah, you can't expand that to the global mass of baha'i, I'm sure there's probably proletarian baha'i somewhere but the conversations/encounters with baha'i I've had pretty much left me cold.

Perhaps, but I don't think any leftist should use this as a justification for their personal disapproval of an entire group of people. From what I've heard, Bahai institutions traditionally take a neutral stance, and certainly every group has internal dissent. Think about the class base and social conditions of the Bahai you know, then think of the fact that almost all Bahai in the world probably come from a fairly different background.

[hatzel]

Actually strident zionism is part of their religion which is the reason they are running into trouble in Iran.

Slight lie, as we've already covered. Two reasons they may be considered Zionist:

1. They don't like to rebel against governments (that much is actually anything to do with their religion), thus they won't be anti-Zionist (or, if we're actually going to use proper terminology for once, anti-Israel); they generally won't support actions against that or any other government, though - it seems as though countries like Iran, where they are actively oppressed, occupy a 'middle ground', but even here they hope more for reform than for the complete overthrow of the government.

2. They seem to think that it's better for the Universal House of Justice and the Shrine of the Bahá'u'lláh to be in non-Muslim hands, as their experiences in Muslim states (Iran, Egypt, Islamic parts of India etc.) suggest to them that Muslims have a strange tendency to call them all heretics and oppress them and smash up all their stuff. They are, therefore, scared that if their holiest temples and gardens and all that were in Muslim hands, they might be knocked down or something. I'm not saying that their fears are remotely justified, I'm just telling it like it is: they currently prefer a Jewish state ruling over Acre and Haifa, knowing that this state is perfectly happy with the existence of their temples and gardens, than to run the risk of a neighbouring Muslim state rolling in, declaring them heretics and desecrating their holiest places.

(However, fun fact: the Bahá'í are forbidden from preaching their religion to anybody from Israel-Palestine. Crazy stuff!)

Neither of the above suggest that 'strident Zionism' is actually part of their religion (unless you're the Iranian regime and feel like oppressing them, in which case, as they claim, it is). If it were, then we could readily declare them as the one true faith, for somehow being able to foresee the emergence of Zionism as a political current decades before it popped up, and then ensuring that their founding sage would be imprisoned in a spot of the Ottoman Empire that would, almost a century later, find itself in Israel and...yeah, you get the point that this would be an awfully far-fetched suggestion for somebody who dismisses religion out of hand...

Still, this isn't the religion forum, nor the Bahá'ís are reactionary scumdogs forum, so let's keep it on topic, eh? :)

[RedSunRising]

Their line on the Palestinians is basically what pretty much permanently alienated me from my baha'i friends. Which is sad, several of them, politics aside, were very kind people.

How can you call people who support things like Operation Castlead very kind?

[Franz Fanonipants]

How can you call people who support things like Operation Castlead very kind?

On a personal level they were alright. On a universal level, obviously, I had a lot of problems w/them.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

How can you call people who support things like Operation Castlead very kind?

Yeah, just like "Muslims" support Al Qaeda ... prejudice and profiling is the same, no matter who the victim is. Calling for imprisonment or added mistrust of a religious community is not a defensible position for the Left, any more than it is when the USA does "random airport searches" on brown-skinned people with funny names or Israel hinders the right of movement for Palestinians.

You aren't even offering any kind of interesting analysis for why Bahai might include a higher portion of people sympathetic with Israel, you're just making blanket accusations about the whole group. It would be akin to assuming that all Jews necessarily support extreme Zionism ... sure some might, but to blindly generalize about an entire community is inexcusable.

[danyboy27]

Actually strident zionism is part of their religion which is the reason they are running into trouble in Iran.

I mean Israel has nuclear bombs aimed at Iran so it is kinda understandable!

Holy shit i didnt knew that the bahai religion appeared in the 1960s.

Thanks mate!

[Queercommie Girl]

I mean Israel has nuclear bombs aimed at Iran so it is kinda understandable!

So why is Iran repressing communists as well? I don't see any communist country pointing nuclear bombs at Iran.

[Queercommie Girl]

tbh the Ba'hai are some of the most ardent counterrevolutionary people on earth, from my limited interactions with them.

Funny how you think Islamic fundamentalists are less right-wing than Ba'hai universalists.

Whether or not one is right-wing is not solely or even primarily determined by whether or not one is pro-Israel. Sorry, but important as the matter is, it's only one piece of the capitalist imperialist jigsaw.

At least I don't see Ba'hais killing communists in the name of their religion. Where is your sense of self-preservation?

[Franz Fanonipants]

Funny how you think Islamic fundamentalists are less right-wing than Ba'hai universalists.

lol almost like one has an implicit critique of western imperialism/capitalism and one doesn't.

E: this is kind of a ridiculous juncture anyways. no one said "oh rad the Iranian regime is persecuting Baha'is," rather I made the point that broadly the baha'i I've known have been pretty rough people politically and class-wise, and it was assumed I cuddle w/Ali Khameni. which, while he's cute, I don't.

[Queercommie Girl]

lol almost like one has an implicit critique of western imperialism/capitalism and one doesn't.

E: this is kind of a ridiculous juncture anyways. no one said "oh rad the Iranian regime is persecuting Baha'is," rather I made the point that broadly the baha'i I've known have been pretty rough people politically and class-wise, and it was assumed I cuddle w/Ali Khameni. which, while he's cute, I don't.

I don't think your personal experience is really statistically significant in any kind of serious scientific sense. Also, as others have pointed out, there is no evidence at all that Baha'is explicitly support any kind of Zionism, which I obviously agree is very reactionary.

Generally one should always avoid labelling an entire religion in a negative way, which is frankly discriminatory, on the same level as Islamophobia. Note that I only ever criticise Islamic fundamentalists and theocrats, but never Islam in general. And I think other religions like Baha'i deserve the same treatment.

[The_Outernationalist]

So from what I gather a few users, specifically, Franz Fanonimpants and RedSunRising, it's okay the Baha'i are getting persecuted because of their "reactionary beliefs"...

Frankly, that's a really disgusting supposition.

[Luís Henrique]

Almost every baha'i I've met is a strident zionist, conservative, pro-capital etc.

Most Catholics I know are reactionary.

And so... I should support English imperialism against Ireland?

Luís Henrique

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Most Catholics I know are reactionary.

And so... I should support English imperialism against Ireland?

Luís Henrique

Heck, there's also the whole sample size problem. If I went to a university and made friends with some Hare Krishna kids, then most Hindus I know would be Krishna-worshipping white hippies. Clearly, 99.9% of Hindus are not, in fact, Krishna-worshipping white hippies. I find it surprising that Fanonipants would find his buddies to be a sufficient sample of what Bahai people essentially believe. Because, you know, they might not believe different things if they live in different places etc.

Really, there's been a complete failure by those criticizing the religion to provide any real evidence, be it demographic, historical or theological, to help analyze the claim either, so we can't even talk about why some Bahai might believe this, etc.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

My previous post got lost. At one time I was interested in the Baha'i Faith and I have had BF friends and acquaintances. They are strongly anti-racist and have some progressive ideas. Its difficult to see where they stand politically. Someone asked their founder, Baha'ullah, "Should I join the Socialist Party?" He said, "the BF comprehends all degrees" Your guess is as good as mine as to what this means.

Most Baha'i seem to be well meaning liberal capitalist internationalists.Many are drawn to work for international institutions like the World Bank or the UN, which they see as helping their goal of creating a global civilization.Some of their literature is mildly critical of globalization and capitalism.

I have come across a few Baha'i willing to "engage" with Marxism but few know much about it.

There is controversy around and within the main Baha'i organization HQ'ed in Haifa. Apostates or those the leadership doesn't like, "covenant breakers" are ostracized and BF blogs and forums have been censored. There appears to be a fair amount of tacky politics going on w/in the main organization. There are stories that US Baha'i have been mistreating their Iranian coreligionists, preferring them to "practice" martyrdom in Iran and blocking their immigration to the US.

There are many Baha'i who have left the organization and regard themselves as "free Baha'i". Juan Cole, the liberal/left Iraq expert is one of these.

The BF does not accept homosexuality although some "progressive Baha'i" are struggling with the issue.

A few Bahai are willing to "engage" with Marxism but few know much about it.

[pluckedflowers]

lol almost like one has an implicit critique of western imperialism/capitalism and one doesn't.

There is no implicit critique of capitalism in Islam. Lots of Muslims like to complain about capitalism, but in my experience most of them aren't actually complaining about capitalism as such, but about cultural values they associate with capitalism. Many have a problem with "American" or "Western" capitalism, but given the choice would merely seek to replace this with "Islamic" capitalism. See, for example, the neo-liberal paradise that is Turkey under the AK Party.

You could argue that there are contradictions between the values of Islam and the cultural dynamics produced by capitalism, but that's true of any religion, really.