Bernie Sanders

[Property Is Robbery]

He isn't actually a democratic socialist right? He's just a social democrat, isn't he? What do y'all think?

[thesadmafioso]

By the generally right centered measurements of the American political spectrum it could be said with a fair degree of validity that he is indeed a democratic socialist, but by the international model of the term he would probably be more of a generic social democrat. He doesn't advocate for the replacement of capitalism through democratic means and rather chooses to simply apply a critical approach to the manner in which capitalism in managed, though he is still an independent and one of the most left leaning if not the most left leaning major US politician.

[Ilyich]

Sanders is not ideal at all but he is the closest thing to a socialist in the Senate.

[Property Is Robbery]

Thanks. If a mod wants to delete this thread go for it. My question has been resolved.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I'm not sure. He hasn't ventured into elaborating on what he believes socialism is. Only professing that he is a democratic socialist.

However, I will suggest that he is likely only a social democrat.

[9]

In the US, "Democratic Socialist" virtually always means "social democrat" anyway, and its certainly true in this case - Bernie Sanders is a social democrat at best.

[lukejmo]

Could you say more about these two terms? Wikipedia (an exhaustive and generally comprehensive resource :laugh:) doesn't do an adequate job of explaining the two, or the relation between communism. Would it be correct to say, democratic socialism = revleft minus the rev, social democracy = capitalism plus some mainstream left goals, ie some welfare state? And how do people on this forum feel about the two? Or is there much of a distinction at all there? The only thing I know about DS in the US is that Cornell West is a member. Ha!

[Sasha]

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personally i would have smashed rand pauls head on the table if he said that sitting next to me but the over-polite ridicullisation sanders pulls there is nice too.

[LewisQ]

This is how left-wing Bernie Sanders is. The following were his tweets after the OBL assassination:



I applaud the extraordinary bravery of those American military personnel who participated in this highly effective operation



Take Bernie's poll: Can Pakistan Be Trusted?d?

[The Man]

Yeah, he is a Social Democrat. But a cool fact I found out is, Noam Chomsky donated 1000 dollars to his campaign.

[RadioRaheem84]

Bernie Sanders seems more like a left wing liberal to me, a social democrat in his best times, but definitely not democratic socialist. I have never seen him give a full on critique of the capitalist system.

Cornell West is a Dem Soc

But Sanders still kicks ass though. The best guy we have in the Senate!

[Jose Gracchus]

A social democrat. In the U.S. these seem alien and radical.

[28350]

But Sanders still kicks ass though. The best guy we have in the Senate!

I don't think this kind of attitude is good. Even Sanders, the leftmost senator, is still our enemy. He's not one of "our guys."

[Jose Gracchus]

I'm inclined often to agree. I mean sometimes I think the last thing we need after the 20th c. are more mystifications and distractions, however "bridging" or "consciousness raising" they might be. A lot of left politics historically and class-basis-wise really was the left-wing of capital.

Implicit to that statement is the idea that the Senate of the United States could have any working-class political content. I think one of the first things a real life should do is unequivocably call for the Senate's abolition.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't think this kind of attitude is good. Even Sanders, the leftmost senator, is still our enemy. He's not one of "our guys."

No he's not and he's proly a Social Democrats USA type of guy too; very anti-Communist, anti-revolutionary Socialist, anti-Marxist.

But I just love the fact that there is someone there to take the piss out of some right wing cappie.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Yeah, he is a Social Democrat. But a cool fact I found out is, Noam Chomsky donated 1000 dollars to his campaign.

Chomsky has contributed a lot to my political education and has in the past critiqued capitalism very accurately, but some of the things he does completely contradict what his analyses point to, he has argued for workers controlling production and decision making, so why does he think this is in any way possible by donating money to a social democrat?

[Tim Finnegan]

Chomsky has contributed a lot to my political education and has in the past critiqued capitalism very accurately, but some of the things he does completely contradict what his analyses point to, he has argued for workers controlling production and decision making, so why does he think this is in any way possible by donating money to a social democrat?
Who says he does? Some actions are pragmatic and immediate, and not necessarily superficially reflective of long-term goals. I mean, I voted to keep Gordon Brown in Downing Street, but I'd happily have seen the fella up against the wall if that had been a realistic option. This is particularly true when you're dealing with individual actions like this, which I'm sure Chomsky knows as well as we do are incapable of standing in for the organised working class.

[ZeroNowhere]

No he's not and he's proly a Social Democrats USA type of guy too; very anti-Communist, anti-revolutionary Socialist, anti-Marxist.

But I just love the fact that there is someone there to take the piss out of some right wing cappie.He's not that much better or more amusing than the other few million people who have taken the piss out of 'right wing cappies', so I really couldn't care less about what he does or does not say. Banalities quickly tire.