Flying Pilots flex their class Muscles

[Crux]

(http://socialism.in/?p=922)Flying Pilots flex their class Muscles (http://socialism.in/?p=922)

May 10, 2011







http://socialism.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/images11.jpg (http://socialism.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/images11.jpg)
The 10 day pilot strike that has rocked the troubled national carrier – Air India has ended with a partial victory of sorts for the pilots with the govt. agreeing to look into the pilots demands within a timeframe. The issue relates to pay parity of pilots belonging to domestic routes with their counterparts in the the International routes of the same carrier, better working conditions & dismissal of current Chairman & Managing Director (CMD) of Air India Arvind Jhandav accusing him of being involved in corruption & causing loss to the airline industry. The pilots have recieved support from the pilot associaltion of Jet airways & other ground staff of Air India. Many of the pilots even joined the May Day demonstration in Mumbai organized by India Against Corruption expressing their solidarity with the movement against corruption.
This is not the first time that pilots are striking. There have been numerous occasions in the past four years involving both the pilot & the crew members of the Air India & Jet airways personnel. With 90% of the domestic flights grounded & an estimated loss of upto Rs. 150 crores (Rs. 1.5 bn), the pilots refused to budge an inch despite a smear campaign launched by the Air India management with ads accusing them of getting lavish salaries (Rs. 3 to 7 lakh Rupees per month) violating court order, inconviencing the passengers, causing loss to the industry & so on.


But the truth of the matter is that the current strike is not a result of any greedy pilots demands for higher pay but is a part of a larger strategy by the airline management in alliance with neo liberal govt. & pvt. Airline industry to dismantle the national carrier & eventually privatize the entire airline industry. The current crisis is a direct result of the open skies policy of the 90′s & subsequently more vigorously so in the last 10 yrs. which has resulted in a number of private players entering the scene resulting in substantial loss of revenue to the national carrier unable to compete with low cost pvt. airlines (no frills models). This has only been aided with Air India management deliberate policies of letting go of profitable routes to pvt. players resulting in even more further losses.


The loss is not just restricted to the national carrier alone, it also includes the once booming pvt. airline industry. If anything most of the airlines have been facing losses for the past four years as a result of the recession with lower passenger intake, high fuel cost & ultimately as a result of an unsustainable model of transport system which will not only doom the industry but also have a toll on the environment. This unregulated environment that has seen mushrooming with low cost carrier to fake pilots in command & an overburdened crew & ground staff, the Indian skies could never have been more unsafer.
While we express our complete solidarity & support with the striking pilots, it would be suicidal to imagine that the struggle is over & everything is back to normal. It may seem to appear as if the pilots may have scored a partial victory over the management but given the unstable economic environment globally, the situation is only bound to worsen. Management & the pro neo liberal govt. will never really give in to any the pilots demands & more such struggles will be the order of the day.


Because ultimately it is flawed economic policies of capitalist globalization which is being pursued by this current govt. as well as previous govt., which has deliberately favored private transportation as against public transportation, that is to blame. And solution does not lie merely in some cosmetic change here & there but a complete break with the past not only in relation to who controls the industry (public or private) but complete reorganization of transportation in India which puts mass public transportation on the agenda, which is affordable, environmentally friendly based on workers & people’s participation in running the whole system.


And it is apt to be remembered that issues faced by this apparently elite class of workers such as the pilots cannot be treated as the issue of the pilots alone. Unless their struggle is linked to the issues of workers in the entire airline industry (both crew & ground staff) & by default the struggle of the entire Indian working class with support from across the trade unions, only then would the system really tremble & workers taste a real sense of victory.
Anand Kumar
Mumbai

[red cat]

While it is true that pilots belong to the class of elites, at least in India, it is nice to see the contradiction between them and their bosses sharpening. If the production relations triumph over relative living conditions, they will side with the working class. Joining May Day demonstrations is a very positive indication.

[L.A.P.]

Well the Marxist theory on class always emphasized more on their role in the means of production rather than just simple measurement of income. So despite their significantly higher income, pilots are still workers.

[red cat]

Well the Marxist theory on class always emphasized more on their role in the means of production rather than just simple measurement of income. So despite their significantly higher income, pilots are still workers.

Marx's theories don't always work very accurately. "Workers" earning in the same levels as pilots are most often neutral or even reactionary. Only specific conditions can make them join the revolutionary working class.

[L.A.P.]

"Workers" earning in the same levels as pilots are most often reactionary.

Workers in general can most often be reactionary as well in many cases. So I don't see how this bares relevance on how this proves that pilots aren't workers.

[red cat]

Workers in general can most often be reactionary as well in many cases. So I don't see how this bares relevance on how this proves that pilots aren't workers.

Not in many cases. The vast majority of workers are revolutionary. Pilots are workers; I was referring to their position with respect to revolution. A common error while classifying people solely with respect to their relationship with the means of production is to identify each strata of workers as a part of the revolutionary proletariat.

[Ocean Seal]

While it is true that pilots belong to the class of elites, at least in India, it is nice to see the contradiction between them and their bosses sharpening. If the production relations triumph over relative living conditions, they will side with the working class. Joining May Day demonstrations is a very positive indication.
What really? In the US pilots are very underpaid. I think they are even below the 50th percentile. I heard somewhere that they earn like $19,000 even though they probably have to work the worst possible hours.

[red cat]

What really? In the US pilots are very underpaid. I think they are even below the 50th percentile. I heard somewhere that they earn like $19,000 even though they probably have to work the worst possible hours.

In India even air-hostesses are elites. :)

[t.shonku]

While it is true that pilots belong to the class of elites, at least in India, it is nice to see the contradiction between them and their bosses sharpening. If the production relations triumph over relative living conditions, they will side with the working class. Joining May Day demonstrations is a very positive indication.


These pilots are the same guys who treat factory workers,masons, bus drivers and people from other humble profession like a piece of trash. Remember in India to become a commercial airline pilot you need to be a very rich kid because the training charges are so high that an average guy can't afford it.These pilots during their marriage charges huge dowry because their parents have spent a lot on their training.

Please don't except these corporate minded dickheads to join the real peoples war when it breaks down in urban areas.



In India even air-hostesses are elites. :)


Yah ! those bimbo chicks are costly too

DON'T WORRY AFTER REVOLUTION THEY WILL ALL END UP IN LABOUR CAMPS AND WILL BE BREAKING BOULDERS .




When it comes to pilot I think the guys from the air forces are the ones who should be motivated into joining the Peoples War because pilots in air force are the ones from humble background the training they take is free(yah that is because it is dangerous that's why it is free).

[pranabjyoti]

Comrade Red Cat and Comrade Shonku,
Sorry, I beg to differ with both of you in this regard. In India, backward feudal mentality is reigning everywhere and dowry is just one facet of that. Even working class people can be and are affected by that mentality. But, just simply that doesn't disqualify them as being part of working class. Both pilots and air-hostesses are extremely well paid in comparison to an average Indian worker and probably their training is costly too and only rich families can afford that, IT'S FACT AND NONE IS DENYING THAT. But, at least I want to say that they have shown great unity before the attack from both the Govt. of India and the Air India authority and even they just denied court ruling. THAT'S CERTAINLY A GOOD EXAMPLE and in that case, I am with the pilots and air-hostesses, whatever may be their general mentality towards general working class and general working class ideology.
Like the old British workers, they may be some kind of "labor aristocracy", but I think they are also part of working class, may be well paid.
In India (probably in many other countries), working class is often associated with poor income, but it isn't always true and sometimes DEADLY WRONG AND LEADS TO DANGEROUS ANTI-WORKER STAND. A worker is someone who just sold his/her power to do labor at a cost. His/her salary depends on his/her level of skill and use of well developed modern machinery during working. A worker with low-tech tools certainly will has a salary less than a worker with modern machinery. IT'S A FACT.
In India, the corporate media and the ruling class is now trying to paint the organized workers as some kind of "elite" and always provoking general people, even lower income working class people against them. This is nothing but "divide and conquer" policy and I am want to warn everybody to be cautious about that fact.
One of my reason of supporting the pilots is the fact that the corporate controlled media jumped against the strike with tooth and nail.

[red cat]

Comrade Red Cat and Comrade Shonku,
Sorry, I beg to differ with both of you in this regard. In India, backward feudal mentality is reigning everywhere and dowry is just one facet of that. Even working class people can be and are affected by that mentality. But, just simply that doesn't disqualify them as being part of working class. Both pilots and air-hostesses are extremely well paid in comparison to an average Indian worker and probably their training is costly too and only rich families can afford that, IT'S FACT AND NONE IS DENYING THAT. But, at least I want to say that they have shown great unity before the attack from both the Govt. of India and the Air India authority and even they just denied court ruling. THAT'S CERTAINLY A GOOD EXAMPLE and in that case, I am with the pilots and air-hostesses, whatever may be their general mentality towards general working class and general working class ideology.
Like the old British workers, they may be some kind of "labor aristocracy", but I think they are also part of working class, may be well paid.
In India (probably in many other countries), working class is often associated with poor income, but it isn't always true and sometimes DEADLY WRONG AND LEADS TO DANGEROUS ANTI-WORKER STAND. A worker is someone who just sold his/her power to do labor at a cost. His/her salary depends on his/her level of skill and use of well developed modern machinery during working. A worker with low-tech tools certainly will has a salary less than a worker with modern machinery. IT'S A FACT.
In India, the corporate media and the ruling class is now trying to paint the organized workers as some kind of "elite" and always provoking general people, even lower income working class people against them. This is nothing but "divide and conquer" policy and I am want to warn everybody to be cautious about that fact.
One of my reason of supporting the pilots is the fact that the corporate controlled media jumped against the strike with tooth and nail.

The definition of working class that you are following is from classical Marxism and in conflict with the finer and more practical characterization from Maoism. So I will disagree with you on that point. Other than that your stand is no different from that of mine. Of course one of the effects of a people's war is to create and sharpen contradictions within the bosses and the privileged workers, whereby the revolutionaries win new allies. Therefore we should support these movements by pilots and people belonging to similar categories as long as they are progressive and against the ruling classes.

[RED DAVE]

The definition of working class that you are following is from classical Marxism and in conflict with the finer and more practical characterization from Maoism.And Maoism is dead wrong. It confuses false consciousness and class position. There is no reason to change the Marxist definition unless (1) you reject the working class as the leading class in revolution and (20 you want to engage in class collaboration. This is Maoism. Take a look at Nepal if you don't believe me.


So I will disagree with you on that point. Other than that your stand is no different from that of mine. Of course one of the effects of a people's war is to create and sharpen contradictions within the bosses and the privileged workers, whereby the revolutionaries win new allies. Therefore we should support these movements by pilots and people belonging to similar categories as long as they are progressive and against the ruling classes.That's really nice of you: that you support the working class. Problem is, you support the petit-bourgeoisie and the so-called national bourgeoisie in the same way.

RED DAVE

[t.shonku]

Comrade Red Cat and Comrade Shonku,
Sorry, I beg to differ with both of you in this regard. In India, backward feudal mentality is reigning everywhere and dowry is just one facet of that. Even working class people can be and are affected by that mentality. But, just simply that doesn't disqualify them as being part of working class. Both pilots and air-hostesses are extremely well paid in comparison to an average Indian worker and probably their training is costly too and only rich families can afford that, IT'S FACT AND NONE IS DENYING THAT. But, at least I want to say that they have shown great unity before the attack from both the Govt. of India and the Air India authority and even they just denied court ruling. THAT'S CERTAINLY A GOOD EXAMPLE and in that case, I am with the pilots and air-hostesses, whatever may be their general mentality towards general working class and general working class ideology.
Like the old British workers, they may be some kind of "labor aristocracy", but I think they are also part of working class, may be well paid.
In India (probably in many other countries), working class is often associated with poor income, but it isn't always true and sometimes DEADLY WRONG AND LEADS TO DANGEROUS ANTI-WORKER STAND. A worker is someone who just sold his/her power to do labor at a cost. His/her salary depends on his/her level of skill and use of well developed modern machinery during working. A worker with low-tech tools certainly will has a salary less than a worker with modern machinery. IT'S A FACT.
In India, the corporate media and the ruling class is now trying to paint the organized workers as some kind of "elite" and always provoking general people, even lower income working class people against them. This is nothing but "divide and conquer" policy and I am want to warn everybody to be cautious about that fact.
One of my reason of supporting the pilots is the fact that the corporate controlled media jumped against the strike with tooth and nail.

Well what you say can be true !

But I once met an Indian Air hostess Chick and I was amazed to see her hostile attitude towards less fortunate peoples,she basically had the strange mentality that branded any one with lower wage as criminal.

Anyways I will not consider this single incident, but when the Peoples Revolution starts in city this Pilots and Air Hostess will all join the reactionary forces just like their friends the so called "Software or IT Engineers" would, you know why ? because they have a well to do and a settled life and they will not give that up and go live in a commune moreover they will never consider a factory worker as an equal and call him/her Comrade, YOU CAN TRUST THEM IF YOU WANT BUT I WILL NEVER TRUST THEM, BECAUSE THIS ARE THE SAME CLASS OF PEOPLE WHO CALL MAOISTS TERRORISTS , these people are the same class of people who deny the burning fact that in Dandakarnya everyday the Government is killing and raping so many, these are the same people who make champagne flow like fountain while a Adivasi woman walks miles for water, they eat pastry while a Dalit child dies of hunger, they sit down under their AC while slums get steam rolled over, DO THEY COME OUT AND PROTEST WHEN GOVERNMENT DOES THIS HENIOUS THINGS AGAINST LESS FORTUNATE PEOPLES? The answer is NO, so my support towards them is a big NO :cursing::cursing::cursing:


For me a IT Guy, Commercial Pilot , Airhostess, Journalists who work for Corporate media, all are same , they should be thrown into Labour camps where they will be properly socialized into the new social order



By Comrade Red Cat

Other than that your stand is no different from that of mine. Of course one of the effects of a people's war is to create and sharpen contradictions within the bosses and the privileged workers, whereby the revolutionaries win new allies. Therefore we should support these movements by pilots and people belonging to similar categories as long as they are progressive and against the ruling classes.
What makes you think that these Pilot dickheads and these air hostess chicks would want to be an ally of the Maoist Party? These peoples have perfectly settled life they wouldn't want that to be messed up by such associations , Cmon this guys are carrier loving pigs they would never risk their carrier by helping a banned Communist party, they love the current Indian social order which advocates steam rolling ordinary people, they would never want that social order to vanish,actually they love this social system because it is the same one which helped them build their carrier they somehow feel that they should be loyal to such social orders because it provided them with opportunities while denying others

[red_rich]

For me a IT Guy, Commercial Pilot , Airhostess, Journalists who work for Corporate media, all are same , they should be thrown into Labour camps where they will be properly socialized into the new social order

Your not going to get many people on your side (including many on here) when you start suggesting certain groups of workers should be thrown in labour camps. :closedeyes:

[pranabjyoti]

Your not going to get many people on your side (including many on here) when you start suggesting certain groups of workers should be thrown in labour camps. :closedeyes:
They form the upper creamy layer of the working and often possess reactionary mentality. Though in my opinion, that's a result of deformed capitalism, that is now reigning in India at present. Together, they are a very very small % of the population, even they are not a comfortable share of the working class here in India.

[t.shonku]

Your not going to get many people on your side (including many on here) when you start suggesting certain groups of workers should be thrown in labour camps. :closedeyes:


Ohhhhh please Mr Viceroy from good old British Raj take those so called "workers" to Great Britain and make them join labour party ! You are going to have a lot of fun like those elite people used to have with powdered wigs shouting out loud in house of commons ( all tough there is nothing common about house of commons)


Do your research Mr Richie Rich before commenting , those people whom I am talking about are very less in percentage and are absolute reactionary in nature they don't really care about the condition of the less fortunate, back in 2008 a large group of IT workers went to Singur in a rally in support of TATA Nano factory , they were supporting TATA project and were speaking out against the peasants who lost their land due to TATA project, they were speaking in support of TATA the same company which is responsible for deaths of many peasants and is responsible for forceful land grabbing.

Besides these so called "working class" are so privileged that they get special treatment from government , the government provides them police escorts in their company's AC buses,whenever an IT engineer gets kidnapped or goes missing it becomes breaking news in media and police uses all resources to find him/her but everyday when a mason or road construction worker who works under the hot Indian summer sun gets killed no body cares, these female ITs get speacial police protection and on their way to work and back , police wrecks an entire neibhourhood when a IT girl gets eve teased but this same police refuses to lodge complain when a girl working in road construction project gets raped by her contractor ,

TELL ME MISTER HOW CAN WE CONSIDER SUCH PEOPLE WORKING CLASS ?WHO HAVE SUCH A GOOD NEXUS WITH GOVERNMENT THEY ARE PRACTICALLY ON A HONEYMOON TRIP WITH THE AUTHORITIES AND THESE SO CALLED PROTEST THEY ARE DOING IS JUST A SIDESHOW , THIS IS LIKE A QUARREL BETWEEN A HUSBAND AND WIFE , THIS IS IN NO WAY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

My former decision stands these people should be thrown into labour camps and make to break boulders then and only then they will understand the pain of a road construction worker, they should be used to plough fields instead of an Ox then and only then they will undestand the pain of a peasant, they should be made to clean sewers then they will understand the pain of a sweeper , they should be forced to attain party classes where they would be taught how to respect other human beings, this is the punishment they should receive for siding with the current regime and taking privileges, this is how you clean their brain of the reactionary tendencies they have.


I am not ashamed of what I am saying I have always been a radical and I always will remain one, I will always be there for the little guys and less fortunate ones because they are my Comrades, all you 3P suit wearing caffe going communists are trying to create the same society that you criticize so much while sipping tea or bear in a caffe, I want to destroy such psudo society and not preserve it, destruction of such psudo societies will herald the coming of a new social order, sitting down sipping tea and discussing communism is not my type or brand, it is far better to lay down land mines than waste time on stupid discussions. Criticize me all you want and hate me as much as you want I really don’t give a darn about it, because all the 3P suit wearing people who go to costly universities and take jobs in corporate company are no ones, they are not the real working class therefore you have no right to judge me. Pushing switch of a land mine is far better than pushing pen because it produces quick results.


I AM AN ANGRY RADICAL! YES I AM

[red cat]

And Maoism is dead wrong. It confuses false consciousness and class position. There is no reason to change the Marxist definition unless (1) you reject the working class as the leading class in revolution and (20 you want to engage in class collaboration. This is Maoism.

How does refusing to recognize a group of elites as a part of the revolutionary proletariat imply those two points? Rather acknowledging all of them as revolutionary workers gives class collaborationists an excuse to focus on the struggles of pilots and airhostesses rather than those of the proletarians fighting for their daily bread in the fields and factories of India.


Take a look at Nepal if you don't believe me.As of now I am looking at India, and here the claim of pilots being members of the revolutionary proletariat in the practical sense does not hold much water.


That's really nice of you: that you support the working class.Thank you.


Problem is, you support the petit-bourgeoisie and the so-called national bourgeoisie in the same way.

RED DAVEWe subordinate all other classes to the proletariat. And we do not take to the dishonest way of including the elites into the proletariat and then subordinating all classes to them, which is nothing other than an effort to preserve the current social order.

@ t.shonku : Cool down. Comrade pranabjyoti has made some very important points here. You will notice that a known strategy of the ruling class is to prevent workers' movements from gaining mass-media attention as long as possible, and then propagandizing against them as "lazy elites" as soon as they come under the spotlight. In this context, though pilots are far from being proletarians, we should ask ourselves that who is lazier, the pilots or their bosses? If it is the latter, then I see no reason not to unite with the former to fight a common enemy.

The anti-Maoist nature of most elites like IT workers or pilots is well known. But then, why alienate them when they are showing some positive signs ? Our job is to unite every possible enemy of imperialism under a common banner. So, when their real life contradiction is against the enemy of the broad masses, even temporarily, we should ally with them, even if it is feasible for only one hour. Naturally, if pilots see the working class as an enemy greater than their bosses, they wouldn't have joined the May Day demonstrations. They are choosing the working class over capitalists and bureaucrats. This is a very important point.

[pranabjyoti]

You will notice that a known strategy of the ruling class is to prevent workers' movements from gaining mass-media attention as long as possible, and then propagandizing against them as "lazy elites" as soon as they come under the spotlight. In this context, though pilots are far from being proletarians, we should ask ourselves that who is lazier, the pilots or their bosses? If it is the latter, then I see no reason not to unite with the former to fight a common enemy.

The anti-Maoist nature of most elites like IT workers or pilots is well known. But then, why alienate them when they are showing some positive signs ? Our job is to unite every possible enemy of imperialism under a common banner. So, when their real life contradiction is against the enemy of the broad masses, even temporarily, we should ally with them, even if it is feasible for only one hour. Naturally, if pilots see the working class as an enemy greater than their bosses, they wouldn't have joined the May Day demonstrations. They are choosing the working class over capitalists and bureaucrats. This is a very important point.
That should be the correct attitude of every revolutionary and everyone should follow that.

[red_rich]

Ohhhhh please Mr Viceroy from good old British Raj take those so called "workers" to Great Britain and make them join labour party ! You are going to have a lot of fun like those elite people used to have with powdered wigs shouting out loud in house of commons ( all tough there is nothing common about house of commons)


Do your research Mr Richie Rich before commenting , those people whom I am talking about are very less in percentage and are absolute reactionary in nature they don't really care about the condition of the less fortunate, back in 2008 a large group of IT workers went to Singur in a rally in support of TATA Nano factory , they were supporting TATA project and were speaking out against the peasants who lost their land due to TATA project, they were speaking in support of TATA the same company which is responsible for deaths of many peasants and is responsible for forceful land grabbing.

Besides these so called "working class" are so privileged that they get special treatment from government , the government provides them police escorts in their company's AC buses,whenever an IT engineer gets kidnapped or goes missing it becomes breaking news in media and police uses all resources to find him/her but everyday when a mason or road construction worker who works under the hot Indian summer sun gets killed no body cares, these female ITs get speacial police protection and on their way to work and back , police wrecks an entire neibhourhood when a IT girl gets eve teased but this same police refuses to lodge complain when a girl working in road construction project gets raped by her contractor ,

TELL ME MISTER HOW CAN WE CONSIDER SUCH PEOPLE WORKING CLASS ?WHO HAVE SUCH A GOOD NEXUS WITH GOVERNMENT THEY ARE PRACTICALLY ON A HONEYMOON TRIP WITH THE AUTHORITIES AND THESE SO CALLED PROTEST THEY ARE DOING IS JUST A SIDESHOW , THIS IS LIKE A QUARREL BETWEEN A HUSBAND AND WIFE , THIS IS IN NO WAY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

My former decision stands these people should be thrown into labour camps and make to break boulders then and only then they will understand the pain of a road construction worker, they should be used to plough fields instead of an Ox then and only then they will undestand the pain of a peasant, they should be made to clean sewers then they will understand the pain of a sweeper , they should be forced to attain party classes where they would be taught how to respect other human beings, this is the punishment they should receive for siding with the current regime and taking privileges, this is how you clean their brain of the reactionary tendencies they have.


I am not ashamed of what I am saying I have always been a radical and I always will remain one, I will always be there for the little guys and less fortunate ones because they are my Comrades, all you 3P suit wearing caffe going communists are trying to create the same society that you criticize so much while sipping tea or bear in a caffe, I want to destroy such psudo society and not preserve it, destruction of such psudo societies will herald the coming of a new social order, sitting down sipping tea and discussing communism is not my type or brand, it is far better to lay down land mines than waste time on stupid discussions. Criticize me all you want and hate me as much as you want I really don’t give a darn about it, because all the 3P suit wearing people who go to costly universities and take jobs in corporate company are no ones, they are not the real working class therefore you have no right to judge me. Pushing switch of a land mine is far better than pushing pen because it produces quick results.


I AM AN ANGRY RADICAL! YES I AM


I am not suggesting they do not have reactionary attitudes, nor that they care about the less fortunate. However, if everyone who i thought to possess reactionary beliefs was to be 'thrown into labour camps' and forced to feel the pain of manual labour in order to 'clean their brain of the reactionary tendencies'.... Most of britain would be in these camps. Something i do not wish to see.

Speaking of britain, i dont see why your comments such as 'Mr Viceroy from good old British Raj' and referring to me as 'richie rich' are really necessary. I do have a manual labour job and i am as radical as you or any other leftist on here. Your judgement of me just for being born in britain is not very internationalist at all, most reactionary infact. Perhaps your self could do with some clensing manual labour my friend.

[pranabjyoti]

I am requesting others to stop "friendly fire" and infighting.

[t.shonku]

Stop being so sweet towards these pilots and IT elites , have you people completely lost your mind? These guys are the nastiest type of reactionary you will find, they post the most outrageous anti-communist comments in internet forum , do your research!

MY FUNDA IS SIMPLE EITHER OBEY AND RESPECT THE PARTY OR GO TO HELL ! BECAUSE THE PARTY IS ALWAYS RIGHT ! AND NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CRITICIZE THE PARTY AND DISRESPECT PROLETARIAT !


In India a pilot or IT guy is elite he/she is not working class, stop thinking India in western context, also don’t forget the caste and ethnic system, remember that in India most IT guys and corporates are high caste hindus , they will never allow a Muslim Engineer to join their jobs even if he is a topper in his class. That is how hard it is for a non-Hindu or a low caste to get a carrier , this discrimination doesn’t only stops here since most low castes and Muslims in India are from humble economic background they constantly face discrimination all the time at every education and job institutes.

Remember that during revolution you won’t find this elitist siding with Naxals because for them Naxals are a bunch of rag tag low caste’s party who are in their view losers in life(elitists think of themselves as winners)joining such a party would destroy their well preserved Brahminical egos. Most of this people are from Jatt, Rajputana and Brahmin background so forget it guys you are not going to get any support from them, they even treat their own kind I mean other poorer Hindus badly what makes you think they would want to support the Naxals which is a party of proletariat and low castes. When ever you think about India think of it in a feudal context.

Have you seen that even the Party hasn’t issued any statement in support of this Pilots because even the Party doesn’t trust them.

These elitist people with high profile jobs are very racist in nature (this includes IT engineer, Commercial Pilots, doctors,corporate journalists etc etc corporate honchos) are the ones who are always spreading anti-Dalit and and anti-Muslim hatred, Maoist should never align with this racist peoples , this elitists treat Dalits and Muslims like a piece of trash.I am not saying that all Hindus are racist but the elite Hindus are , the Hindus who are not well to do or poor are generally not anti-Dalit or anti-Muslim , yes it is true that they get stirred from time to time but it’s this elitist who are to be blamed for that.

The main support base for Maoists are Adivasis,Dalits and Muslims and poor Hindus but these elitist are all reactionary and racist they should never be supported

[Crux]

Stop being so sweet towards these pilots and IT elites , have you people completely lost your mind? These guys are the nastiest type of reactionary you will find, they post the most outrageous anti-communist comments in internet forum , do your research!

MY FUNDA IS SIMPLE EITHER OBEY AND RESPECT THE PARTY OR GO TO HELL ! BECAUSE THE PARTY IS ALWAYS RIGHT ! AND NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CRITICIZE THE PARTY AND DISRESPECT PROLETARIAT !
Have fun remaining on the political margins for another 30 years then.
"they" post outrageous comments on the internet? :laugh:
Give me a break.

[t.shonku]

Have fun remaining on the political margins for another 30 years then.
"they" post outrageous comments on the internet? :laugh:
Give me a break.


Ohhhh stop being such an ignorant little troll !

Do you know India and Indian society well enough? I don't think so Mr 3P suit wearing,caffe going communist! Do your research and then open that stupid mouth of yours!This elitist are so few in numbers that their joining or not joining doesn't matter hahahaha have fun Mr Impractical man:thumbup:

And what about the things that I wrote on the bottom part? are you gonna address them? or don't you have the knowledge or balls to do it?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[pranabjyoti]

Have fun remaining on the political margins for another 30 years then.
"they" post outrageous comments on the internet? :laugh:
Give me a break.
At least, we are in far far ...... better position than anarchos and trots. At least we are in the margin, but they are just out of the scene.

[Crux]

Ohhhh stop being such an ignorant little troll !

Do you know India and Indian society well enough? I don't think so Mr 3P suit wearing,caffe going communist! Do your research and then open that stupid mouth of yours!This elitist are so few in numbers that their joining or not joining doesn't matter hahahaha have fun Mr Impractical man:thumbup:

And what about the things that I wrote on the bottom part? are you gonna address them? or don't you have the knowledge or balls to do it?:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I think the OP adressed that well enough. "3p suit wearing"? I suppose it's too late to tell you to stop making a fool of yourself. You don't even deserve a response.

[t.shonku]

I think the OP adressed that well enough. "3p suit wearing"? I suppose it's too late to tell you to stop making a fool of yourself. You don't even deserve a response.


What happened? bak bak baka ! Do I smell a Chicken ?

Look at yourself, you represent an organization of which hardly any one have ever heard the name of and you are trying to lecture me??????? Look at our Maoist organizations , we dominate over South East Asia , CPI(Maoist) controls a huge size of land , Maoism has it's presence in entire region from Nepal,Bhutan,Bangladesh,India and in Philippines , and look at us Maoist philosophy extends to as far as Latin America and even Turkey, the proletariat in Brazil actually took to the street to show solidarity with Maoist movement in India. That's how big and great Maoist philosophy and it's influence is so just shut the FK up! We don't take craps from a obscure organization's member like you ! If your organization has balls enough go organize a strike somewhere in Bangladesh or Nepal or better India , go back to your caffe dreamer boy politics is not for you, you need to do a lot of field work Mister, you will melt like butter under the hot tropical sun even before you organize a strike.


BY THE WAY WHY DON’T I DESERVE ANSWER FROM YOU? IS IT THAT YOU HAVE CHICKENED OUT FROM THE DEBATE? OR IS IT THAT YOU PRACTISE EUGENICS AND THINKS EVERYONE IS INFERIOR TO YOU?

[t.shonku]

Anyways back to the topic of deriving a relationship between elitist and caste system and feudal system.

This was back in 1998 there was an Admiral in Indian Navy who happened to be a Dalit and his wife was a Muslim, all tough he was very well qualified for the job (if I am not mistaken the guy had an background in Engineering) any ways he was sacked for no apparent reason and his carrier was packed in a box ,now this shows the kind of discrimination based society we are dealing with here a intollerant society which absolutely prevents people of Dalit or Muslim community to get any high ranking jobs.

There was a software engineer from India I talked to once he said me that Dalits should be sent to concentration camp where they should be gassed , he thought that Dalits are a bunch of idiots and degenerated sub-human species who are a major obstacle in India's progress.

If you guys have gone through the articles I posted one on conditions of Dalits, you would recall how most of the anti-Dalit movement are coming out from elite and upper middle class high caste Hindus, they have even formed a Nazi style groups, these groups have members from all walks of life all of them are elitist , they have doctors, engineers , scientists and what not(actually doctors from India's elite institute AIIMS are spear heading the whole anti-Dalit campaign, I have even posted pictures on this). So be sure this elitists can't be tamed.They deserve labour camps

On the other hand high caste hindus who are poor are not very racist therefore you can always include them in peoples army but this elitists are so nasty that if they are taken into the party they will ruin the party by provoking the Dalits and Muslims and this will only create infighting .

[RED DAVE]

Class, Comrade t.shonku, is based on the objective relationship to the means of production, not on one's consciousness of that class relationship or the consciousness or others. Racism, sexism, etc., all exist and serve to complicate class consciousness and even the conditions of groups within classes, but the class relationship is objective.

That's Marxism 101. This is something that some comrades, Maoists especially, seem to have forgotten. If the pilots in India are not working class, why are they on strike?

RED DAVE

[red cat]

That's Marxism 101. This is something that some comrades, Maoists especially, seem to have forgotten. If the pilots in India are not working class, why are they on strike?

RED DAVE

I am not commenting about this particular instance, but your logic here is flawed. In India even organizations of large vehicle-owners strike.

[t.shonku]

Well paid and well to do Doctors and Lawyers also strike in India :):)

[RedSunRising]

That's really nice of you: that you support the working class. Problem is, you support the petit-bourgeoisie and the so-called national bourgeoisie in the same way.


No he doesnt. He may support tribals and poor peasants in the same way but that is a very different story.

We are talking about people in this strike who are economically and politically more powerful than the petit-bourgeoisie and even some of the national bourgeoisie. You are approaching this question in a very mechanistic manner.

[Pretty Flaco]

Yah ! those bimbo chicks are costly too

DON'T WORRY AFTER REVOLUTION THEY WILL ALL END UP IN LABOUR CAMPS AND WILL BE BREAKING BOULDERS .


wtf is wrong with you

[t.shonku]

Dalits face bias in private sector jobs, wages

Published: Saturday, Oct 27, 2007, 0:09 IST
By Vineeta Pandey



IIDS, Princeton study reveals rampant discrimination and unequal access to jobs
NEW DELHI: The caste bias in the Indian mindset is openly reflected in the nation’s employment scene and is substantially high in the urban labour market, especially the private sector, reveals a survey by the Indian Institute of Dalit Studies (IIDS) and Princeton University (United States).
Noting that a Dalit is less likely to get a job and a handsome pay package in a private firm, as compared to an applicant from an upper caste, the study points out that getting a job is much tougher for Dalits and Muslims as a clear bias is seen against them when it comes to inviting them for interviews and deciding their wages. “Discrimination occurs, to a large extent, in unequal access to jobs and fewer Dalits and Muslims get jobs,” says Prof Sukhdeo Thorat, chairman University Grants Commission, who conducted the survey.
The study assumes significance given the aggressive resistance of corporate houses to the government proposal for reservation to SC/ST and OBC in the private sector.
While the industry has been contending that merit plays an important role in hiring and that they do not discriminate on the basis of caste, religion or gender, the fact remains that Dalits do face unequal access to jobs.
The researchers filed 4,808 applications for 548 jobs advertised in English newspapers over 66 weeks starting October 2005. Applications by equally-qualified males from higher upper castes, Dalits and Muslims were filed for each vacancy and the response from the corporate sector was shocking.
While all higher upper caste candidates were called for interviews for a particular job vacancy, only 67% Dalits and 33% Muslims were contacted.
Also, there is a big gap between the wages of lower and upper castes in the regular salaried urban labour market. The discrimination means 15% lower wages for SC/ST.
“Discrimination accounts for a large part of the gross earnings difference between higher upper caste employees and Dalits in the regular salaried urban labour market, with occupational discrimination – unequal access to jobs – considerably more than wage discrimination,” says the study.
This explains why Dalits prefer government jobs to private. A separate study by the same team revealed that the ideal jobs for Dalit students are either administrative/civil services or teaching which have quotas, while students belonging to higher castes prefer the private sector.
About 48% Dalits surveyed said they wanted to be IAS/IPS and another 28% preferred teaching/research/academics, while only 9.2% aspired for high-profile jobs in private firms.
Compared to this, most general category students preferred high-profile jobs such as business analyst, corporate planner and relatively few (19 per cent) viewed administrative services as an ideal option.
Dalit students from comparable degree programmes also have lower expectations and see themselves as disadvantaged because of their caste and family backgrounds. As such, they enter the job market with weaker English language and computer skills.
At the time of finding jobs as well the divide is evident. About 47% of general category students surveyed expected to find jobs in two months, while 45% of Dalit students gave themselves eight months to get lucky.

Link to the article

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_dalits-face-bias-in-pvt-sector-jobs-wages_1130165


I have been saying this all along about how Dalits and Muslims are not allowed to get good jobs in high profile carriers and this elitist and corporate Brahminical agents are behind such conspiracy, THIS ELITIST ARE ALL RACIST ! Send them to labour camps and make them work until they die, say no to racism and discrimination ! The only way this elitist sponsored racism can be dealt with is by sending this elitist to labour camps and killing them

I ask why the hell should Dalits and Muslims be the only one who should be forced to do back breaking inhumane physical jobs? why not this elite hindu uppercastes be given a taste of their own medicine

Recently a survey conducted shows that the elitist upper middle class and rich people in India has the higher tendency towards killing female fetus ( The survey is in non-English Language I will try to translate it and post it, I always back my claim up with article just like I have done above, fuck you all Trots who criticize me)


Dalits and Muslims of India have a lot of expectations from Maoists and I hope the Maoist don't destroy such expectations by siding with this racist elitist because that will send a wrong message to Dalit and Muslim community, all tough the Dalit and Muslim communities have nothing against the poorer Hindus but they don't like rich elitist Hindus because they are racist and hostile towards Dalits and Muslims.

[pranabjyoti]

Well, as per proper scientific Marxist terminology, peasants are part of "petty-bourgeoisie", but I am requesting anyone to come to India and organize some real movement with support from the peasants, just from the workers. I just want to see where it will end.

[t.shonku]

wtf is wrong with you


HERE IS ANOTHER MINDLESS TROT SPEAKING FROM HIS ASS !

You have weakness towards bimbo high society girls, that is your problem, I hate bimbo high society girls.


SEND EM TO LABOUR CAMPS!

[Blackscare]

HERE IS ANOTHER MINDLESS TROT SPEAKING FROM HIS ASS !

You have weakness towards bimbo high society girls, that is your problem, I hate bimbo high society girls.


SEND EM TO LABOUR CAMPS!

This is a warning for sexist language. Next instance and it's an infraction.



Also, consider this another warning for flaming.

[t.shonku]

India: The Growth-Discrimination Nexus


by Jayati Ghosh

Many people, especially in India, tend to believe that the process of economic growth is likely to be mostly liberating for those oppressed by various forms of social discrimination and exclusion. The argument is that market forces break open age-old social norms, especially those of caste and gender, that have for so long denied opportunities and restricted options for so many.
Unfortunately, the current Indian reality is more complex than that. The strength of Indian large capital, which is leading the current economic boom, derives at least partly from the persistence and even expansion of a wide range of workers engaged in precarious and low-productivity employment. Most significantly from the point of view of the Indian corporate sector, different degrees of outsourcing have blurred the lines between formal and informal activities, and the proliferation of such low-paying self-employment has become an important means of reducing costs for the corporate sector as well as passing on the risks of production to smaller units that are essentially part of the working class.
The extent to which all successful formal economic activities in India rely on the implicit subsidies provided by cheap informal labour is largely unrecognised. Yet corporate profitability in India hinges substantially on the lowering of a wide range of fixed costs through outsourcing. Thus, for example, the success of the much-lauded software industry in India is only partly because of cheaper skilled IT professionals compared to their international counterparts. A significant part of the lower costs comes from the entire range of support services: cleaning and maintenance of offices, transport, security, back office work, catering, and so on. These are usually outsourced to smaller companies that hire temporary workers with much lower wages, no job security, very long hours of work and hardly any form of worker protection or other benefits. Without the cost advantages indirectly conferred by these low paid workers, the domestic software industry would find it much harder to compete internationally. The same is true of a wide range of corporate activities across both manufacturing and the newer services.
These processes of direct and indirect underwriting of the costs of the corporate sector have been greatly assisted by the ability of employers in India to utilise social characteristics to ensure lower wages to certain categories of workers. Caste and other forms of social discrimination have a long tradition in India, and they have interacted with capitalist accumulation to generate peculiar forms of labour market segmentation that are probably unique to Indian society. Numerous studies have found that social categories are strongly correlated with the incidence of poverty and that both occupation and wages differ dramatically across social categories. The National Sample Surveys reveal that the probability of being in a low wage occupation is significantly higher for STs, SCs, Muslims and OBCs (in that order) compared to the general ''caste Hindu'' population. This is only partly because of differences in education and level of skill, which are also important and which in turn reflect the differential provision of education across social categories.
Such caste-based discrimination has operated in both urban and rural labour markets. For example, even in a major metropolitan area like Delhi, which is one of the epicentres of economic expansion, there continues to significant discrimination against Dalit workers operating dominantly through the mechanism of assignment to jobs, with Dalits largely entering poorly-paid ''dead-end'' jobs. These are actually essential jobs in both production, such as sweepers, loaders, unskilled construction workers, and services, such as shop and sales assistants and security guards and the like. Methods of recruitment based on contacts, which are widely prevalent in such low-skilled occupations, cause past discrimination to carry over to the present and thereby condemn lower caste groups to providing poorly remunerated labour that is nonetheless essential to income generation in the economy as a whole.
Similarly, empirical studies of caste behaviour in rural India have found that there are many ways in which caste practices operate to reduce the access of the lower castes to local resources as well as to income earning opportunities, thereby forcing them to provide their labour at the cheapest possible rates to employers. One study (Ghanshyam Shah, Harsh Mander, Sukhdeo Thorat, Satish Deshpande and Amita Baviskar, Untouchability in Rural India (http://books.google.com/books?id=WoYVVzxVKO0C), New Delhi: Sage Publications, 2006) of various caste-based practices in rural areas of 11 states (Punjab, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh including Chhattisgarh, Rajasthan, Maharashtra, Orissa, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu) found, in addition to the well-known lack of assets, a large number of social practices that effectively restricted the economic activity of lower caste and Dalit groups, and forced them to supply very low wage labour in harsh and usually precarious conditions.
In 73 per cent of the villages surveyed in this study, Dalits could not enter non-Dalit homes. In 70 per cent of villages, Dalits could not eat with non-Dalits. In 64 per cent of villages, Dalits could not enter common temples. In 36 per cent of survey villages, Dalits could not enter village shops. In around one-third of the survey villages, Dalits were not accepted as traders dealing with commonly used items of consumption or production. These practices in turn can be used to keep wages of Dalit workers (who are extremely constrained in their choice of occupation) low, even in period of otherwise rising wages. And these practices persist even during the period of the Indian economy's much-vaunted dynamic growth.
But the important point to note here is not simply that such practices continue to exist, but that they have become the base on which the economic accumulation process rests. In other words, capitalism in India, especially in its most recent globally integrated variant, has used past and current modes of social discrimination and exclusion to its own benefit, to facilitate the extraction of surplus and ensure greater flexibility and bargaining to employers when dealing with workers. So social categories are not ''independent'' of the accumulation process -- rather, they allow for more surplus extraction, because they reinforce low employment generating (and therefore persistently low wage) tendencies of growth.
Similar tendencies are evident in patterns of gender discrimination as well. With respect to women's work, there have been four apparently contradictory trends: simultaneous increases in the incidence of paid labour, underpaid labour, unpaid labour, and the open unemployment of women. This is a paradox, since it is generally expected that when employment increases, then unemployment comes down; or when paid labour increases, then unpaid labour decreases.
For urban women, the increase in regular work has dominantly been in services, including most importantly the relatively low-paid and less desirable activity of domestic service, along with some manufacturing. In manufacturing, there has been some recent growth of petty home-based activities of women, typically with very low remuneration, performing outsourced as part of a larger production chain. But explicitly export-oriented employment, even in special zones set up for the purpose, still accounts for only a tiny fraction of women's paid work in urban India. Meanwhile, in rural India self-employment has come to dominate women's activities even in non-agricultural occupations, largely because of the evident difficulty of finding paid work.
In this period of economic boom, average real wages of women workers increased relatively little over the ten year period 1993-94 to 2004-05 despite rapid increases in national income over this period, and for some categories of women workers (rural graduates and urban illiterate females) real wages actually declined. What is more, there were fairly sharp increases in gender gaps in wages, are now among the highest in the world.
Even public services rely heavily on the underpaid labour of women. While a privileged minority of women in government employment continue to access the benefits of the government behaving as a ''model employer'', new employment for the purpose of providing essential public services has been concentrated in low-remuneration activities with uncertain contracts and hardly any benefits. This is true of school education (with the employment of para-teachers) as well as health and nutrition (with reliance on anganwadi workers and ASHAs).
The Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/cg130111.html) is the only public intervention to make some difference in this, with evidence of gender gaps in rural wage work coming down as a result of the implementation of the scheme.
Conditions of self-employment among women show many of the disturbing tendencies of wage employment. Women's self-employment in non-agriculture is largely characterised by both low expectations regarding incomes and remuneration and substantial non-fulfilment of even these low expectations. Despite some increase in high-remuneration self-employment among professionals and micro-entrepreneurs, in general the expansion of self-employment seems to be a distress-driven process, determined by the lack of availability of sufficient paid work on acceptable terms. Case studies and evidence from large surveys of the NSS both suggest that payment for home-based work, which is typically on piece rates and accounts for increasing proportions of the economic activity of women, have been declining not only in real but even in nominal terms in many urban centres, despite the economic dynamism of the areas in general.
Similarly, unpaid labour of women is likely to have been increasing because of public policies such as reduced social expenditure that place a larger burden of care on women, or privatised or degraded common property resources or inadequate infrastructure facilities that increase time spent on provisioning essential goods for the household, or simply because even well-meaning policies (such as for afforestation) are often gender-blind.
Once again, the relevant point here is not simply that such gender differences exist, but that they -- and therefore the particular forms that patriarchy takes in India -- are closely intertwined with processes of capitalist accumulation. So the recent growth has not broken existing pattern of social discrimination, instead it has relied on them to take forward the growth story.
Jayati Ghosh is Professor, Centre for Economic Studies and Planning, School of Social Sciences, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi, and Executive Secretary of International Development Economics Associates (http://networkideas.org/) (IDEAs). This article was first published in MacroScan (http://www.macroscan.org/cur/apr11/cur130411Growth_Discrimination.htm) on 13 April 2011; it is reproduced here for non-profit educational purposes.


Link Article
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/ghosh060511.html



More articles !

[Aspiring Humanist]

This is from Moores Capitalism: A Love Story
While Moore is a reactionary bourgeois capitalist, this scene in his film is pretty interesting and depressing to see the sad state of affairs of American pilots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKQJx3L_CDQ
When will the pilots of the western world strike?

[Rusty Shackleford]

i think everyone here needs to sit back and take a breath before posting.

[Crux]

t. shonku, that's an impressive strawman you've got going there, because see nobody is denying the existence of racism and intra-class differences in India. Aside from being a pathetic little troll. More ad hominems? What a suprise. You must be really desperate, I mean soon you've gone through all logical fallicies in the list.
Oh and also it seems you are a sexist too. How unsuprising. Typical for internet trolls like you.

[RED DAVE]

HERE IS ANOTHER MINDLESS TROT SPEAKING FROM HIS ASS !

You have weakness towards bimbo high society girls, that is your problem, I hate bimbo high society girls.


SEND EM TO LABOUR CAMPS!You're a disgrace to the Left. Why not go elsewhere, clown.

RED DAVE

[IndependentCitizen]

Marx's theories don't always work very accurately. "Workers" earning in the same levels as pilots are most often neutral or even reactionary. Only specific conditions can make them join the revolutionary working class.

Oh god, so that means us taking medicine in order to become doctors are "reactionary"?

[RED DAVE]

Marx's theories don't always work very accurately. "Workers" earning in the same levels as pilots are most often neutral or even reactionary. Only specific conditions can make them join the revolutionary working classWhat you are doing, as a typical Maoist, is vulgarizing the relationship between class and consciousness.

(1) Marx's theory of class works very well indeed as a definition of a person's relationship to the means of production.

(2) There is not automatic relationship between class membership and class consciousness. False consciousness can be produced by racism, sexism, relative position within a class, etc.

(3) Specific conditions are always operable in class consciousness.

RED DAVE

[Thirsty Crow]

Oh god, so that means us taking medicine in order to become doctors are "reactionary"?
No, that means that red cat has a flawed, uni-linear notion of class consciousness formation which borders, in its ultimate form, on bourgeois theory of stratification where income is the determining factor.

What I'd like to see is evidence that these workers enjoy a higher degree of economic and political power than the national bourgeoisie. Coupled with evidence which shows their previous reactionary actions or statements, the picture would change.

[red cat]

Oh god, so that means us taking medicine in order to become doctors are "reactionary"?

Not if you use your skills or position to help advance the cause of the proletariat.

[red cat]

No, that means that red cat has a flawed, uni-linear notion of class consciousness formation which borders, in its ultimate form, on bourgeois theory of stratification where income is the determining factor.

What I'd like to see is evidence that these workers enjoy a higher degree of economic and political power than the national bourgeoisie. Coupled with evidence which shows their previous reactionary actions or statements, the picture would change.

If you are so confident about my flawed notions then why even ask for evidence ? I am not really interested in providing evidence for these obvious facts, but since this is probably your first such demand, I will provide some evidence nevertheless. As far as I recall, new recruits start from something like Rs. 80,000 while senior pilots get well over Rs. 300,000. The minimum wage, in reality even half of which very few workers get is something around Rs. 3,000. A shopkeeper or a businessman belonging to the left wing of the national bourgeoisie rarely makes it near Rs. 40,000. I can almost predict that your next demand will be "evidence" that these numbers are true or that this makes pilots more powerful and more likely to support the state more than a small shopkeeper etc.

[pranabjyoti]

If you are so confident about my flawed notions then why even ask for evidence ? I am not really interested in providing evidence for these obvious facts, but since this is probably your first such demand, I will provide some evidence nevertheless. As far as I recall, new recruits start from something like Rs. 80,000 while senior pilots get well over Rs. 300,000. The minimum wage, in reality even half of which very few workers get is something around Rs. 3,000. A shopkeeper or a businessman belonging to the left wing of the national bourgeoisie rarely makes it near Rs. 40,000. I can almost predict that your next demand will be "evidence" that these numbers are true or that this makes pilots more powerful and more likely to support the state more than a small shopkeeper etc.
Comrade red cat, sorry, my opinion defers from you in this regard. I don't have proper idea why very highly paid pilots and air-hostesses will join revolution in future or not. But, at least I can say that shop keepers and other kind of small business owners and service providers, very often posses a very dangerous, poisonous mentality towards organized workers. IT'S A HARD REALITY IN INDIA.
As their income level is lower (the very nature of small business and service, mostly due to lack of good equipments and machinery due to lack of capital), their income level is often lower than workers working in organized sector. I personally know well how those small traders and service providers hate organized workers, workers organizations i.e. trade union in reality and workers movements. To them, organized workers are lazy and they just know how to demand, but don't want to work hard. I personally have seen they are rejoicing on a lock-out of an industry. Their reason is "the owner taught the workers some good lessons". I have deep doubts whether this kind of people can be beside the revolutionaries, however poor they are.

[RED DAVE]

Not if you use your skills or position to help advance the cause of the proletariat.You mean like this:


"We are not fighting for socialism," he said ... "We are just fighting against feudalism. We are fighting for a capitalistic mode of production. We are trying to give more profit to the capitalists and industrialists."(Prachanda, Nepalese Maoist Party leader - Daily Telegraph, 31 Oct 2006.

RED DAVE

[red cat]

Comrade red cat, sorry, my opinion defers from you in this regard. I don't have proper idea why very highly paid pilots and air-hostesses will join revolution in future or not. But, at least I can say that shop keepers and other kind of small business owners and service providers, very often posses a very dangerous, poisonous mentality towards organized workers. IT'S A HARD REALITY IN INDIA.
As their income level is lower (the very nature of small business and service, mostly due to lack of good equipments and machinery due to lack of capital), their income level is often lower than workers working in organized sector. I personally know well how those small traders and service providers hate organized workers, workers organizations i.e. trade union in reality and workers movements. To them, organized workers are lazy and they just know how to demand, but don't want to work hard. I personally have seen they are rejoicing on a lock-out of an industry. Their reason is "the owner taught the workers some good lessons". I have deep doubts whether this kind of people can be beside the revolutionaries, however poor they are.

I agree with your observations, but that it is mostly due to the absence of open subjective revolutionary forces in the cities and the continued demonization of workers' movements by parliamentary parties. Recall that in many urban areas small traders who do not employ others often unionize and sympathize with workers' struggles. As for those who are small employers themselves, it is known that they are mostly national bourgeois and will join the proletariat in large numbers only when it becomes a very strong force.

However, this does not change the fact that as of now pilots or those enjoying equally high wages generally tend to be reactionary in nature. The revolution will be made not by pilots or shopkeepers, but those who work all day in the factories and fields. Individuals or groups from traders, pilots etc will only follow them in their march towards liberation.

[red cat]

You mean like this:

(Prachanda, Nepalese Maoist Party leader - Daily Telegraph, 31 Oct 2006.


"We are not fighting for socialism," he said ... "We are just fighting against feudalism. We are fighting for a capitalistic mode of production. We are trying to give more profit to the capitalists and industrialists." RED DAVE

Hahahah it's so nice to see the likes of you keeping your trolling confined to internet forums. At least you must have learned throughout the past few decades that engaging in any real-life activities that oppose a "Stalinist" revolutionary movement in anyway isn't a very healthy idea. I am also happy to see that the Nepalese and Indian Trots think exactly like you. Good, I encourage this. :)

[RED DAVE]

"We are not fighting for socialism," he said ... "We are just fighting against feudalism. We are fighting for a capitalistic mode of production. We are trying to give more profit to the capitalists and industrialists.I guess you've shifted your mental toilet to India as your party in Nepal has shown it's true colors.

RED DAVE